List the good thing about Obama care...

[Wolfsister77]

yea i dont buy that either....

I provided proof that is exactly the case.

how is finding out you have prostate cancer early and treating it and beating it.....more expensive than waiting until you have it and now you need surgery and chemo and who knows what else?......same thing with Colon Cancer.....how is a Colonoscopy every few years more expensive than treating someone who has Colon Cancer?....

same thing with mammograms, pap smears, childhood vaccinations and the list goes on

 

[The Rabbi]

I provided proof that is exactly the case.

how is finding out you have prostate cancer early and treating it and beating it.....more expensive than waiting until you have it and now you need surgery and chemo and who knows what else?......same thing with Colon Cancer.....how is a Colonoscopy every few years more expensive than treating someone who has Colon Cancer?....

same thing with mammograms, pap smears, childhood vaccinations and the list goes on

Neither of you bothered to read the article.
The tests are not free. If you add up the total costs for all tests and then weigh that against the cost for treating diseases detected by the tests there is no gain.
I realize it is one of those things that intuitively makes sense, that screenings should be cheaper than treating diseases, but on a global scale it simply isnt true.

 

[Harry Dresden]

plus they cant give you the boot if you happen to contract a disease or something considered an "expensive" condition....if you agree to insure someone as long as that person is paying into the plan....you should be obligated to take care of that person....right down to the end.....

That's the provision that nobody should be against... It should be shocking that an insurance company could drop you the moment you become unprofitable.

Like a car insurance company dumping you the moment you have an accident.

But we'll hear righties argue that the free market should handle it... After your denied and dead you'll learn your lesson and switch insurers I guess.

Yeah except that isn't what happens. I realize the free market is like another planet to you.

But I'll try to explain. An insurance policy is a contract signed by both sides. The insurer must cover you based on the conditions set forth in the contract. Unfortunately people tend to lie. So when they say they are non smokers and then suffer a massive heart attack at age 35 because they smoke like crazy, the insurance company denies the claim based on the initial fraud of the applicant. Whose fault is that?

whose fault is it if the person doesn't smoke and has a heart attack?......whose fault is it if the person gets some form of Cancer?.....whose fault is it if they get MS?......whose fault is it if they get Parkinson's?.....whose fault is it if they get Epilepsy?......whether you want to believe it or Rabbi.....some people get legitimately sick.....and many have been dropped by the Ins Co.......whose fault is that?.....

 

[Wolfsister77]

how is finding out you have prostate cancer early and treating it and beating it.....more expensive than waiting until you have it and now you need surgery and chemo and who knows what else?......same thing with Colon Cancer.....how is a Colonoscopy every few years more expensive than treating someone who has Colon Cancer?....

same thing with mammograms, pap smears, childhood vaccinations and the list goes on

Neither of you bothered to read the article.
The tests are not free. If you add up the total costs for all tests and then weigh that against the cost for treating diseases detected by the tests there is no gain.
I realize it is one of those things that intuitively makes sense, that screenings should be cheaper than treating diseases, but on a global scale it simply isnt true.

I did respond to your article and put up one of my own, but lets just think about the humanity of this instead of just the cost. The lives that are saved. That is surely worth quite a bit. Saving lives.

 

[LoneLaugher]

how is finding out you have prostate cancer early and treating it and beating it.....more expensive than waiting until you have it and now you need surgery and chemo and who knows what else?......same thing with Colon Cancer.....how is a Colonoscopy every few years more expensive than treating someone who has Colon Cancer?....

same thing with mammograms, pap smears, childhood vaccinations and the list goes on

Neither of you bothered to read the article.
The tests are not free. If you add up the total costs for all tests and then weigh that against the cost for treating diseases detected by the tests there is no gain.
I realize it is one of those things that intuitively makes sense, that screenings should be cheaper than treating diseases, but on a global scale it simply isnt true.

Bullshit.

 

[Harry Dresden]

how is finding out you have prostate cancer early and treating it and beating it.....more expensive than waiting until you have it and now you need surgery and chemo and who knows what else?......same thing with Colon Cancer.....how is a Colonoscopy every few years more expensive than treating someone who has Colon Cancer?....

same thing with mammograms, pap smears, childhood vaccinations and the list goes on

Neither of you bothered to read the article.
The tests are not free. If you add up the total costs for all tests and then weigh that against the cost for treating diseases detected by the tests there is no gain.
I realize it is one of those things that intuitively makes sense, that screenings should be cheaper than treating diseases, but on a global scale it simply isnt true.

a simple blood test for Prostrate cancer is more expensive than treating someone who has it?....a Colonoscopy is more expensive than treating someone who has Colon cancer?.....

 

[Nova78]

List the good thing about Obama care...

If your an illegal, deadbeat ,or welfare mom its all good , if your a responsible person your screwed !

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You can see what's good about it just by looking at things that are already happening.

Quality is on the rise:

Obamacare Shows Hospital Savings as Patients Make Gains

Less than five months before the Affordable Care Act fully kicks in, hospitals are improving care and saving millions of dollars with one of the least touted but potentially most effective provisions of the law.

While much of the focus on Obamacare has been on the government rush to open insurance exchanges by Oct. 1, 252 hospitals and physician groups across the U.S. have signed up to join the administration’s accountable care program, in which they share the financial risk of keeping patients healthy.

Under the program, hospitals and physician practices take responsibility for tracking and maintaining the health of elderly and disabled patients. If costs rise beyond an agreed upon level, hospitals may become responsible for reimbursing the government. If they cut the cost of care while maintaining quality, hospitals share in the savings. The government expects the savings may be as much as $1.9 billion from 2012 to 2015. Early indications suggest they are starting to add up.

In other areas where the ACA's quality improvement provisions have launched, they're starting to show some results. For instance, unnecessary hospital readmissions are dropping and the Medicare Advantage quality bonus program is working (incidentally, contrary to speculation a few years ago that Obamacare would destroy Medicare Advantage, enrollment in that privatized bit of Medicare this year is at an all time high):

This year [2012] we saw significant improvement in measures included in the Medicare Star rating pay-for-performance program for health plans that participate in Medicare Advantage. Although Medicare Advantage plans have reported on quality and results have been reported to consumers for many years, the Affordable Care Act required the Medicare program to make higher payments to health plans with better quality performance, starting in 2012. In addition to this new program, the Department of Health and Human Services established a demonstration program to complement it, making even higher payments to plans with better performance.

Funny, there is nothing in there about quality going up. Even if the claim that hospitals are saving money is true, that does not indicate that quality is going up, nor is that necessarily a positive for anyone but the owners of the hospitals.

Competition

is growing:

Health Law Is Fostering Competition, U.S. Says



This, of course, isn't just true of the marketplaces being run by the federal government, but of those being run by states, as well.

Two Oregon insurers rethink 2014 premiums as state posts first-ever rate comparison

Competition is not going up, it just looks like it is if you are the government and can pretend that nothing existed before Obamacare.

Costs are currently in check--and there are some glimmers of hope that this can persist:

To go with the news that we're enjoying the slowest health care price inflation and the lowest group health insurance premium increases since the late '90s, as well as the slowest health spending growth and the slowest per beneficiary Medicare cost growth ever recorded, next year's exchange premium numbers have been trickling out for the past month or so and the news is generally good.

In some states, costs for a standardized set of benefits is actually going to be lower next year than they cost this year (in comparison to the small group market, where comparable protections and benefits exist today), suggesting that competitive insurance markets can actually work.

States like Washington: Premiums drop, coverage expands in Washington's exchange.


And Montana. Insurance commissioner: Price of policies offered on `Obamacare’ exchange in Montana relatively less expensive




In fact, premiums for next year have been coming in lower than expected in states across the country. In Oregon. And California. And D.C. And Colorado. And Vermont. Competitive marketplaces are good.

Bullshit. The only reason costs have gone down is that the recession has forced people to spend less money on health care because they cannot afford it. Unless you are willing to argue that Obamacare is the primary reason the recovery is stalled you cannot argue that it is the reason costs are going down.

Capacity to meet folks' needs is growing:

We're seeing big investments in construction and renovation of community health centers in underserved areas (even anti-ACA GOP Congressfolks have caught heat recently for taking advantage--rightly, I think!--of Obamacare's investment in new health centers) and indications that retail medical clinic capacity is going to double over the next three years.

Last fall saw more medical school applicants than ever:

A record number of students applied to medical school in 2012 according to new data from the Association of American Medical Colleges. Applications have risen over the past decade, growing more quickly over the past few years than they did in the mid-2000s.

This year will see more folks being trained to become doctors than ever before: the residency match that just took place a few weeks ago saw more matches and a record-high match rate:

The 2013 residency program match hit an all-time high of more than 29,000 positions due to a new "all-in" policy that requires programs to register all their available slots, according to final data from the National Resident Matching Program (NRMP).

The 29,171 positions offered in 2013 marked a 9% increase from the 26,772 offered the year before, and 96.4% were filled -- resulting in the "highest fill rate in NRMP history," with match rates rising for "nearly every applicant group," Mona Signer, executive director of NRMP, said in a statement.

If you want to know what's good about the ACA, recall what's been bad about our system for a long time. Insurance markets have been broken and anticompetitive all around the country. Our public health infrastructure and our workforce have been struggling to keep pace with the demands of the 21st century all around the country. Our health care delivery systems have been underperforming on efficiency, quality, safety, you name it all around the country. People are strapped by medical bills and rising insurance costs all around the country.

These things are finally getting the attention they deserve and the reforms and investments they need to change and thrive. The good stuff above is just the beginning. There's still a very long way to go but for the first time, perhaps ever, this country is putting a foundation in place on which to build a health system that works better, serves all, and does it without unsustainable spending growth. That's very good and if we commit to success it's only going to get better.

Let me get this straight, a trend that started before Obama was elected, which has actually slowed since the passage of Obamacare, is the result of Obamacare.

Gotta love the lies they pay you to post.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

List the good thing about Obama care...

You see the blank area below? There you go.

You can no longer lose your job and not get medical insurance after you find employment because of an illness that occurred under your previous medical coverage.

You can no longer be denied medical insurance for a childhood illness such as cancer.

See, I would bet you can find something! Does that counter balance the insane breach of freedom, no BUT that does not mean there is not a single good thing thought the entire 2500 pages. The exchanges also are a pretty good idea. Would be nice if they just set up a lot of this as voluntary but alas, that would not convey control.

I know plenty of people who lost their job, got a new one, and got medical even with a preexisting condition before Obamacare passed. I can also point out hundreds of ways people without insurance of any type were able to get treatment for childhood medical conditions like cancer. Does the fact that all of this was possible before Obamacare somehow justify anyone giving Obamacare credit for it?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Well, just talking off the top of my head I can list a few good things.

You will not be denied for a pre-existing condition if you get sick and you won't be kicked off your insurance if you become sick no matter what the condition.

You can stay on your parents plan until you are 26.

You can keep the insurance you have or you can pick one of the exchanges and more info. is coming out about them in October.

If you have Medicare the doughnut hole will slowly start closing and eventually be gone.

More preventative services will be covered under Medicare that were not before.

Medicaid coverage will expand for folks that need it.

I'm sure there's more if I went and looked but this is just a few basic points.

Are you 100% positive those are all good points? Why should parents be forced to support their children until the age of 26? Shouldn't they be able to tell them that they are adults and to get their own insurance, and take advantage of the lower rates?

 

[Cuyo]

And all of that is free, Free, FREE! Right?

You're an idiot.

Coming from you that's a compliment.

Nah the boy's quite astute, you are indeed an idiot.

 

[Cuyo]

List the good thing about Obama care...

If your an illegal, deadbeat ,or welfare mom its all good , if your a responsible person your screwed !

Illegal? No.

Deadbeat? Law makes it harder for you to be one

Welfare mom? Largely unaffected.

Man, a good misinformation campaign can go a long way.

 

[Vox]

same thing with mammograms, pap smears, childhood vaccinations and the list goes on

Neither of you bothered to read the article.
The tests are not free. If you add up the total costs for all tests and then weigh that against the cost for treating diseases detected by the tests there is no gain.
I realize it is one of those things that intuitively makes sense, that screenings should be cheaper than treating diseases, but on a global scale it simply isnt true.

a simple blood test for Prostrate cancer is more expensive than treating someone who has it?....a Colonoscopy is more expensive than treating someone who has Colon cancer?.....

yes. Because statistically speaking, only colonoscopies have actually shown to be helping in early detection and reducing the cancer deaths - neither mammograms, nor paps, nor prostate screening has shown that. And it is not already recommended by corresponding medical boards and therefore not covered.
American medicine is all driven by cost-effectiveness - all the studies are primed ONLY for that. And recommendations from those type of research are mandatory. Which means they are already not covered, because they are not recommended.

 

[ScienceRocks]

List the good thing about Obama care...I wish to hear your case. Argue on why it is good.

How will it strengthen medical innovation?
Will it give people cheaper medical insurance?
Will the quality of health care remain or increase???

More people will have insurance than before. Duh. Why is that a problem?

What is the GOP solution? There is none. That's why they lost, and deserved to lose.

That's wonderful. No problem at all.

 

[ScienceRocks]

It's mind boggling to watch you idiots absolutely REFUSE to even take one minute to actually learn what the legislation does and does not do.

The growing desperation in their anti-ACA tirades in recent months suggests to me that the realities of what it's doing are sinking in: better care, slower cost growth, more access.

Most folks in the real world are going to find those to be good things, not cause for incoherent anger.

So what are you going to tell us next that people will live to 800 years old under Obozo care? your nose is growing Pinocchio and you run around on other forums dry humping Obozo care. your a paid hack...

I don't expect any healthcare system of the early 21st century to do such things.

 

[ScienceRocks]

You can see what's good about it just by looking at things that are already happening.

Quality is on the rise:

Obamacare Shows Hospital Savings as Patients Make Gains

Less than five months before the Affordable Care Act fully kicks in, hospitals are improving care and saving millions of dollars with one of the least touted but potentially most effective provisions of the law.

While much of the focus on Obamacare has been on the government rush to open insurance exchanges by Oct. 1, 252 hospitals and physician groups across the U.S. have signed up to join the administration’s accountable care program, in which they share the financial risk of keeping patients healthy.

Under the program, hospitals and physician practices take responsibility for tracking and maintaining the health of elderly and disabled patients. If costs rise beyond an agreed upon level, hospitals may become responsible for reimbursing the government. If they cut the cost of care while maintaining quality, hospitals share in the savings. The government expects the savings may be as much as $1.9 billion from 2012 to 2015. Early indications suggest they are starting to add up.

In other areas where the ACA's quality improvement provisions have launched, they're starting to show some results. For instance, unnecessary hospital readmissions are dropping and the Medicare Advantage quality bonus program is working (incidentally, contrary to speculation a few years ago that Obamacare would destroy Medicare Advantage, enrollment in that privatized bit of Medicare this year is at an all time high):

This year [2012] we saw significant improvement in measures included in the Medicare Star rating pay-for-performance program for health plans that participate in Medicare Advantage. Although Medicare Advantage plans have reported on quality and results have been reported to consumers for many years, the Affordable Care Act required the Medicare program to make higher payments to health plans with better quality performance, starting in 2012. In addition to this new program, the Department of Health and Human Services established a demonstration program to complement it, making even higher payments to plans with better performance.

Competition is growing:

Health Law Is Fostering Competition, U.S. Says



This, of course, isn't just true of the marketplaces being run by the federal government, but of those being run by states, as well.

Two Oregon insurers rethink 2014 premiums as state posts first-ever rate comparison


Costs are currently in check--and there are some glimmers of hope that this can persist:

To go with the news that we're enjoying the slowest health care price inflation and the lowest group health insurance premium increases since the late '90s, as well as the slowest health spending growth and the slowest per beneficiary Medicare cost growth ever recorded, next year's exchange premium numbers have been trickling out for the past month or so and the news is generally good.

In some states, costs for a standardized set of benefits is actually going to be lower next year than they cost this year (in comparison to the small group market, where comparable protections and benefits exist today), suggesting that competitive insurance markets can actually work.

States like Washington: Premiums drop, coverage expands in Washington's exchange.


And Montana. Insurance commissioner: Price of policies offered on `Obamacare’ exchange in Montana relatively less expensive




In fact, premiums for next year have been coming in lower than expected in states across the country. In Oregon. And California. And D.C. And Colorado. And Vermont. Competitive marketplaces are good.


Capacity to meet folks' needs is growing:

We're seeing big investments in construction and renovation of community health centers in underserved areas (even anti-ACA GOP Congressfolks have caught heat recently for taking advantage--rightly, I think!--of Obamacare's investment in new health centers) and indications that retail medical clinic capacity is going to double over the next three years.

Last fall saw more medical school applicants than ever:

A record number of students applied to medical school in 2012 according to new data from the Association of American Medical Colleges. Applications have risen over the past decade, growing more quickly over the past few years than they did in the mid-2000s.

This year will see more folks being trained to become doctors than ever before: the residency match that just took place a few weeks ago saw more matches and a record-high match rate:

The 2013 residency program match hit an all-time high of more than 29,000 positions due to a new "all-in" policy that requires programs to register all their available slots, according to final data from the National Resident Matching Program (NRMP).

The 29,171 positions offered in 2013 marked a 9% increase from the 26,772 offered the year before, and 96.4% were filled -- resulting in the "highest fill rate in NRMP history," with match rates rising for "nearly every applicant group," Mona Signer, executive director of NRMP, said in a statement.

If you want to know what's good about the ACA, recall what's been bad about our system for a long time. Insurance markets have been broken and anticompetitive all around the country. Our public health infrastructure and our workforce have been struggling to keep pace with the demands of the 21st century all around the country. Our health care delivery systems have been underperforming on efficiency, quality, safety, you name it all around the country. People are strapped by medical bills and rising insurance costs all around the country.

These things are finally getting the attention they deserve and the reforms and investments they need to change and thrive. The good stuff above is just the beginning. There's still a very long way to go but for the first time, perhaps ever, this country is putting a foundation in place on which to build a health system that works better, serves all, and does it without unsustainable spending growth. That's very good and if we commit to success it's only going to get better.

What a wonderful post...Let's hope this keeps up for the good of all. Thanks for the detailed post.

 

[Wolfsister77]

Well, just talking off the top of my head I can list a few good things.

You will not be denied for a pre-existing condition if you get sick and you won't be kicked off your insurance if you become sick no matter what the condition.

You can stay on your parents plan until you are 26.

You can keep the insurance you have or you can pick one of the exchanges and more info. is coming out about them in October.

If you have Medicare the doughnut hole will slowly start closing and eventually be gone.

More preventative services will be covered under Medicare that were not before.

Medicaid coverage will expand for folks that need it.

I'm sure there's more if I went and looked but this is just a few basic points.

Are you 100% positive those are all good points? Why should parents be forced to support their children until the age of 26? Shouldn't they be able to tell them that they are adults and to get their own insurance, and take advantage of the lower rates?

Parents aren't forced to cover their children up to the age of 26 but it is an option that they can cover them if they want to.

 

[Moonglow]

usually I have to ride the pony to see if I like it.

 

[Nova78]

List the good thing about Obama care...

If your an illegal, deadbeat ,or welfare mom its all good , if your a responsible person your screwed !

Illegal? No.

Deadbeat? Law makes it harder for you to be one

Welfare mom? Largely unaffected.

Man, a good misinformation campaign can go a long way.

Typical response from an American hater.....

 

[The Rabbi]

That's the provision that nobody should be against... It should be shocking that an insurance company could drop you the moment you become unprofitable.

Like a car insurance company dumping you the moment you have an accident.

But we'll hear righties argue that the free market should handle it... After your denied and dead you'll learn your lesson and switch insurers I guess.

Yeah except that isn't what happens. I realize the free market is like another planet to you.

But I'll try to explain. An insurance policy is a contract signed by both sides. The insurer must cover you based on the conditions set forth in the contract. Unfortunately people tend to lie. So when they say they are non smokers and then suffer a massive heart attack at age 35 because they smoke like crazy, the insurance company denies the claim based on the initial fraud of the applicant. Whose fault is that?

whose fault is it if the person doesn't smoke and has a heart attack?......whose fault is it if the person gets some form of Cancer?.....whose fault is it if they get MS?......whose fault is it if they get Parkinson's?.....whose fault is it if they get Epilepsy?......whether you want to believe it or Rabbi.....some people get legitimately sick.....and many have been dropped by the Ins Co.......whose fault is that?.....

Huh? It's no one's fault if they have a heart attack. It is someone's fault if they lie on an application and claim they don't smoke. See the difference?