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first off....that 40 million number has yet to been proven and to the contrary, it has been largely disproved.....but putting that aside....
the "loophole" you see is just one issue...
Then there is the other issue....the bigger issue.....
Pre existing condition clauses were inserted into the insurance industry as a means to maintain the reason for insurance to begin with....people were not looking at it as insurance. They were looking at it as a "means to cut expenses". They refused to buy insurance until they NEEDED healthcare. They would break a leg....THEN buy insurance.
Dental insurance rectified the problem by not allowing the policy to go into affect for 6 months....eliminating those that bought the policy AFTER they broke a tooth.
Hurricane insurance rectified the problem by not allowing it to go into affect for 30 days....eliminating those that would try to buy it when they saw a hurricane coming.
But it was not so easy for health insurance for a variety of reasons.
So lets look at what we have now....
I am 30 years old (I wish). I don't want to pay the 5000 a year for a policy. I am healthy. I don't need it. I prefer paying the 700 tax/penalty.
But...if I find out I have a serious ailment? THEN I will buy a policy.
And I cant be denied because it is now against the law.
THAT is going to be the true reason why premiums will skyrocket....insurance companies will ultimately go under...and we will be in a single payer plan within one decade.
And whereas you may think that is a good thing, the majority of Americans don't want it.
But that is a debate for another day.
Flopper answered your inquiry about buy-when-you-need.
I keep hearing "most Americans don't want it". Obama was re-elected; the Senate stayed in the hands of the Dems. Either the voters are catatonic or there isn't as much angst as is being advertised.
Additionally, it seems as though I recall the health insurance industry signing off on the deal. Are you saying the industry made a mis-calculation of this magnitude?
There may have been some issues with Romney and his faith as a Mormon that kept some from voting not simply his views, which left Barrack Obama as the nation's consolation prize. The real question is, if the people were satisfied with Obamacare and the Democrats why did Nancy Pelosi lose her seat? After all, wasn't all the drama and the issue with blue dog Democrats, on the House side of the legislative branch?
first off....that 40 million number has yet to been proven and to the contrary, it has been largely disproved.....but putting that aside....
the "loophole" you see is just one issue...
Then there is the other issue....the bigger issue.....
Pre existing condition clauses were inserted into the insurance industry as a means to maintain the reason for insurance to begin with....people were not looking at it as insurance. They were looking at it as a "means to cut expenses". They refused to buy insurance until they NEEDED healthcare. They would break a leg....THEN buy insurance.
Dental insurance rectified the problem by not allowing the policy to go into affect for 6 months....eliminating those that bought the policy AFTER they broke a tooth.
Hurricane insurance rectified the problem by not allowing it to go into affect for 30 days....eliminating those that would try to buy it when they saw a hurricane coming.
But it was not so easy for health insurance for a variety of reasons.
So lets look at what we have now....
I am 30 years old (I wish). I don't want to pay the 5000 a year for a policy. I am healthy. I don't need it. I prefer paying the 700 tax/penalty.
But...if I find out I have a serious ailment? THEN I will buy a policy.
And I cant be denied because it is now against the law.
THAT is going to be the true reason why premiums will skyrocket....insurance companies will ultimately go under...and we will be in a single payer plan within one decade.
And whereas you may think that is a good thing, the majority of Americans don't want it.
But that is a debate for another day.
Flopper answered your inquiry about buy-when-you-need.
I keep hearing "most Americans don't want it". Obama was re-elected; the Senate stayed in the hands of the Dems. Either the voters are catatonic or there isn't as much angst as is being advertised.
Additionally, it seems as though I recall the health insurance industry signing off on the deal. Are you saying the industry made a mis-calculation of this magnitude?
Hell yes the insurance companies signed off on the deal. The promise by Obama of 30 million new health insurance customers, all paid in full by the US Government. In addition, millions more will be partially funded on their policies with the full faith and credit of Uncle Sugar.
They would have been foolish not to see that bird nest on the ground.
It costs him increase in taxes and increase in the cost of HIS insurance.
Not sure what you mean by taxes related to someone staying on your insurance.
As for the insurance going up...no. Lets say I had a daughter and her birthday was today; she turns 19. I'm not paying any more for her insurance than I was paying yesterday.
You're making a factually incorrect statement.
you should not make any statements if you do not know the issue. Yes, obamacare is an increase in many taxes for many Americans - you may check it here:ObamaCare Tax: Full List of ObamaCare Taxes
and for ALL on medical device tax plus obamacare is a TAX by itself - therefore all who are actually paying for their increased premiums and deductibles - are being extensively taxed
and your fictituous daughter may stay on your insurance but you will be paying more fr her, as everybody is going to pay more ( unless you get subsidies), but then you make me to pay for you and your daughter.
Anyway around - obamacare is a huge increase in taxes for ordinary Americans through a lot of venues - if you think you are not being taxed, you might want to check how it is falling on you even if you are subsidied.
Obama needs to fix the site and make sure his system works.
The success of this bill will make or break the democrats.
You're not considering the fact that after the first year, insurance exchanges will be accepting application only between Oct and Dec. with a plan start date of Jan 1. For employer sponsored insurance, you can only sign up for insurance during open enrollment which is once a year for most companies buy can be less frequent. So if a person had a serious accident or illness, they will have to wait up to a year, sometimes longer before coverage begins. Also, by 2017 the penalty for most people for not carrying insurance with be about $2,000/yr for each year there is no coverage.first off....that 40 million number has yet to been proven and to the contrary, it has been largely disproved.....but putting that aside....
the "loophole" you see is just one issue...
Then there is the other issue....the bigger issue.....
Pre existing condition clauses were inserted into the insurance industry as a means to maintain the reason for insurance to begin with....people were not looking at it as insurance. They were looking at it as a "means to cut expenses". They refused to buy insurance until they NEEDED healthcare. They would break a leg....THEN buy insurance.
Dental insurance rectified the problem by not allowing the policy to go into affect for 6 months....eliminating those that bought the policy AFTER they broke a tooth.
Hurricane insurance rectified the problem by not allowing it to go into affect for 30 days....eliminating those that would try to buy it when they saw a hurricane coming.
But it was not so easy for health insurance for a variety of reasons.
So lets look at what we have now....
I am 30 years old (I wish). I don't want to pay the 5000 a year for a policy. I am healthy. I don't need it. I prefer paying the 700 tax/penalty.
But...if I find out I have a serious ailment? THEN I will buy a policy.
And I cant be denied because it is now against the law.
THAT is going to be the true reason why premiums will skyrocket....insurance companies will ultimately go under...and we will be in a single payer plan within one decade.
And whereas you may think that is a good thing, the majority of Americans don't want it.
But that is a debate for another day.
A strategy of waiting till you're ill to buy insurance, does not make sense when considering the risks and rewards. For a family, it would be a really dumb move.
There are a lot of dumb people out there unfortunately. But yeah. If the system were set up differently and you had 4 trillion years to get insurance, you'd still have people waiting until the deadline. Regardless of the system, there will be people gaming it. I don't think there ever has been a "game-proof" system
The Tea Party shut down the govt in an attempt to get obozocare dropped and now even obozo admits his signature legislation is an internet nightmare. It's not gonna get fixed in time and Ted Cruz was 100% right in trying to stop it.
It's actually more than just "shutting something down". This is about government taking more and more and more power - and taking more and more and more freedom.
Our illustrious "government" is growing faster than any other concern in America. We are literally putting ourselves into slavery with this behemoth. NOTHING good will come from this and we have done it to ourselves.
You're not considering the fact that after the first year, insurance exchanges will be accepting application only between Oct and Dec. with a plan start date of Jan 1. For employer sponsored insurance, you can only sign up for insurance during open enrollment which is once a year for most companies buy can be less frequent. So if a person had a serious accident or illness, they will have to wait up to a year, sometimes longer before coverage begins. Also, by 2017 the penalty for most people for not carrying insurance with be about $2,000/yr for each year there is no coverage.
A strategy of waiting till you're ill to buy insurance, does not make sense when considering the risks and rewards. For a family, it would be a really dumb move.
There are a lot of dumb people out there unfortunately. But yeah. If the system were set up differently and you had 4 trillion years to get insurance, you'd still have people waiting until the deadline. Regardless of the system, there will be people gaming it. I don't think there ever has been a "game-proof" system
the young professionals who were unmarried traditionally gamed the game...took the chance....and seeing as they are the ones who will be paying for the older "more likely to use the insurance", we cant have them game the game.
But 700 is not nearly enough to endure they spend 4000 and 3000 deductible....
It jusyt wont work.
I cant see it.
These dingleberries are deathly afraid that by November of 2014, Americans will find that they like the ACA. And that they think that the major improvement would be a Universal Single Payer Health Care System based on an income tax on all income, at all levels.
As did the residents of Massachusetts and the citizens of Canada.
LOL, better do some checking "dingleberry". The canadians are moving back to free market medical care. Their canadian obozocare is failing them big time.
The Tea Party shut down the govt in an attempt to get obozocare dropped and now even obozo admits his signature legislation is an internet nightmare. It's not gonna get fixed in time and Ted Cruz was 100% right in trying to stop it.
It's actually more than just "shutting something down". This is about government taking more and more and more power - and taking more and more and more freedom.
Our illustrious "government" is growing faster than any other concern in America. We are literally putting ourselves into slavery with this behemoth. NOTHING good will come from this and we have done it to ourselves.
This is the reality...you are misinformed....
The Tea Party shut down the govt in an attempt to get obozocare dropped and now even obozo admits his signature legislation is an internet nightmare. It's not gonna get fixed in time and Ted Cruz was 100% right in trying to stop it.
It's actually more than just "shutting something down". This is about government taking more and more and more power - and taking more and more and more freedom.
Our illustrious "government" is growing faster than any other concern in America. We are literally putting ourselves into slavery with this behemoth. NOTHING good will come from this and we have done it to ourselves.
This is the reality...you are misinformed....
"socialist takeover of the entire healthcare industry." is an empty phrase with no sense or meaning...its like scaring kids with "the Boogyman"...there is no Boogyman...yeah sure exactly like NazisOf course,
there is this lie
There are 400,000 jobs just right around the corner..
It will be any day now, once the website works properly
Pelosi: Obamacare Will Supply 400,000 Jobs Almost Immediately! - YouTube
Well that's interesting!
So Obamacare will supply 400,000 jobs?
Actually that figure should be supplying 800,000 jobs and here is why!
Obama said:"I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program"
So if Obama WANTS a single payer, what happens to the current 1,300 health insurance payer companies and their 400,000 employees?
If Pelosi also wants single payer as Obama does.. THAT means 1,300 companies no longer in business.
1) $100 BILLION a year these companies pay in Federal/State/Local taxes and local property taxes... WHAT happens if Obama's preference becomes true?
2) 400,000 insurance companies' employees lose their jobs meaning no more federal/state/local taxes PLUS these 400,000 will need unemployment insurance!
Trust me - you're not far off. This is nothing more than the harbinger for a complete socialist takeover of the entire healthcare industry. It is coming.
And these piss ants on this forum will welcome it with open arms. It will be like the Nazis marching into Paris.
It's coming.
It's actually more than just "shutting something down". This is about government taking more and more and more power - and taking more and more and more freedom.
Our illustrious "government" is growing faster than any other concern in America. We are literally putting ourselves into slavery with this behemoth. NOTHING good will come from this and we have done it to ourselves.
This is the reality...you are misinformed....
You really need to become acquainted with reality my friend and what the term "power grab" means. When you finally come to your senses, come back and we'll talk.
Of course the real life real world positive stories about Obamacare, do the Obama haters around here post them?
Of course not.
A Staunch Republican Tries Obamacare ... And Discovers That It's Actually Pretty Awesome
"...Butch Matthews, a 61-year-old former small business owner from Little Rock, Arkansas. Matthews, a diehard Republican, was skeptical of Obamacare. But the new law has already allowed him to buy insurance that is both much better, and much cheaper, than the astronomically expensive pre-Obamacare plan he was clinging to from Blue Cross Blue Shield.
Matthews' old Blue Cross plan cost $1,069 a month and had a $10,000 deductible.
The plan he just bought on the Arkansas state exchange has a $0 premium (after the government subsidy he gets because of his low income level) and only a $750 deductible. It's also a "Silver" plan, which has much better benefits than the vastly more expensive "Bronze" plan he ditched.
Mukherjee asked Matthews whether he had any advice for fellow Republicans now that he has learned that Obamacare actually isn't that bad.
Here's what he had to say:
“I would tell them to learn more about it before they start talking bad about it....”
A Republican Discovers He Likes Obamacare - Business Insider
"socialist takeover of the entire healthcare industry." is an empty phrase with no sense or meaning...its like scaring kids with "the Boogyman"...there is no Boogyman...yeah sure exactly like Nazis
Of course the real life real world positive stories about Obamacare, do the Obama haters around here post them?
Of course not.
A Staunch Republican Tries Obamacare ... And Discovers That It's Actually Pretty Awesome
"...Butch Matthews, a 61-year-old former small business owner from Little Rock, Arkansas. Matthews, a diehard Republican, was skeptical of Obamacare. But the new law has already allowed him to buy insurance that is both much better, and much cheaper, than the astronomically expensive pre-Obamacare plan he was clinging to from Blue Cross Blue Shield.
Matthews' old Blue Cross plan cost $1,069 a month and had a $10,000 deductible.
The plan he just bought on the Arkansas state exchange has a $0 premium (after the government subsidy he gets because of his low income level) and only a $750 deductible. It's also a "Silver" plan, which has much better benefits than the vastly more expensive "Bronze" plan he ditched.
Mukherjee asked Matthews whether he had any advice for fellow Republicans now that he has learned that Obamacare actually isn't that bad.
Here's what he had to say:
I would tell them to learn more about it before they start talking bad about it....
A Republican Discovers He Likes Obamacare - Business Insider
Hi NYC this is a good start. But choice is still better than force.
The sooner we could move toward everyone having a FREE CHOICE to buy and participate, we can quit fighting over it.
If I were single and either in school or without a job, of the two choices:
(a) NOT "getting pregnant then having an abortion"
OR
(b) "getting pregnant and having an abortion or having the baby"
of course, (a) not getting pregnant and not having an abortion would be a better choice than (b).
But I would not want some state law or federal govt forcing the "better decision on me" under penalty of law!
That's extreme but do you see the point? Just because it works out better as choice doesn't mean it is govt's job to impose that on you.
I know someone who is proposing a BETTER system based on FREE CHOICE.
So given the two choices, fine, why not choose which system you think works best for you?
Why this INSISTENCE on only imposing one way to pay for health care, through insurance regulated by the mandates through federal govt?
Other examples:
EX 1: spiritual healing works effectively, is free with no side effects and does not clash with medical or other therapy, and has cured cancer, diabetes, schizophrenia and criminal illness/addictions. yet it only works by choosing it FREELY. the type of "faith healing" that gets forced on people or has money involved tends to FAIL.
so even if you find out it works, and I do have skeptic and even atheist friends who found out it works, you STILL DON'T IMPOSE IT BY LAW OR THREATEN FINES OR PENALTIES
you CHOOSE to participate. This could work better with people CHOOSING it.
EX 2: when Obama changed his mind on gay marriage, and decided he support it,
he DID SO BY FREE CHOICE. it wasn't a law or govt mandate or court ruling that made him.
so why not allow all people that same FREE CHOICE to decide and follow their beliefs?
does it make any sense for Obama to freely change his mind without force of law
and then turn around and want to side with political lobbying to impose this by law?
with my prolife friends, I point out that all of their beliefs and work to prevent abortion
is all done by FREE CHOICE not by force of law. I have never lost that argument that
laws are not necessary for them to do the work they do that can get rid of abortion freely
sadly where I lose is trying to explain the same concept of free choice to prochoice people
I have better success explaining constitutional free choice to prolife advocates who are called "antichoice" but cannot seem to explain very well to prochoice people who are bent on using the federal govt to set up their mandatory payer system instead of using their parties or other existing organizations to run it and pay for it themselves.
It is disturbing and sad to me, that choices for health care that would work effectively to reduce costs yet be followed by free choice are PENALIZED AND PRECLUDED by the ACA regulations, while the choices offered are MANDATORY, do not cover all people, and discriminate against people who want other choices but face penalties and are forced to pay for insurance instead of having equal free choice to invest in other programs, including better solutions that would cover more people PARTICIPATING BY FREE CHOICE and hold them financially responsible.
it is sad people aren't allowed to believe in and fund those options, including spiritual healing which has been proven effective and to cut costs but can't be legislated by govt,
but the govt is actually requiring people to believe and fund unproven ones or fine them.
As did the residents of Massachusetts and the citizens of Canada.
LOL, better do some checking "dingleberry". The canadians are moving back to free market medical care. Their canadian obozocare is failing them big time.
Iam wondering if you have a link or source for your assertions..
The Supreme Court of Canada ruled Thursday that the Quebec government cannot prevent people from paying for private insurance for health-care procedures covered under medicare.
In a 4-3 decision, the panel of seven justices said banning private insurance for a list of services ranging from MRI tests to cataract surgery was unconstitutional under the Quebec Charter of Rights, given that the public system has failed to guarantee patients access to those services in a timely way.
CBC News - Top court strikes down Quebec private health-care ban
In 2011, health care spending consumed 50 percent of revenues in Canada’s two largest provinces, Ontario and Quebec.
By 2017, four more provinces — Saskatchewan, Alberta, British Columbia and New Brunswick — will spend half of their revenues on health care, according to the institute.
Total federal, provincial and territorial government health spending has grown by 8.1 percent annually, while the national GDP in Canada rose by only 6.7 percent during the same period.
In response to the rapidly rising costs, provincial governments have raised taxes and rationed care, increasing patient wait times.
Report: Canadian health care spending unsustainable | The Daily Caller
It's actually more than just "shutting something down". This is about government taking more and more and more power - and taking more and more and more freedom.
Our illustrious "government" is growing faster than any other concern in America. We are literally putting ourselves into slavery with this behemoth. NOTHING good will come from this and we have done it to ourselves.
This is the reality...you are misinformed....
How could a President/Congress double the national debt and this chart be an honest appraisal?
"socialist takeover of the entire healthcare industry." is an empty phrase with no sense or meaning...its like scaring kids with "the Boogyman"...there is no Boogyman...yeah sure exactly like Nazis
Hi Tyrone I will copy and send that graph to my bf who can usually spot misinformation or biased propaganda.
I agree with Greens Occupy Independents and Libertarians I have discussed alternatives with, on the idea of collecting back on the corrupt war spending on illicit contracts, and use those funds to pay for health care instead of charging taxpayers more. Why not pay back taxes from corporate/govt misspending first. Some of my friends who want singlepayer support this in between stage as a step to move forward; but it is curious to me this is NOT based on actually wanting to pay for it themselves, but only on the premise/assumption that (a) others even opponents will pay for it (b) these people will agree to the same policies once these are put in the hands of govt. what makes you think your opponents will set up the system the way you want. so this is curious to me, these singlepayer people who want to use federal or state govt for this totally discount that anyone with any other views or options should be equally considered or represented at all. they assume their ideas are the best or only ones that will work; if so, why do you have to impose it or make other people pay for it; shouldn't it be carried well enough by the people who believe in those? that is the part I really do not get; it seems so self-conflicting
as for socialist takeover I agree that may or may not be proveable.
what I can prove is that this federal mandate with insurance violates prochoice principles of "keeping govt out of private choices." it discriminates and only accommodates those who believe in the limited choices offered as doing more good than harm. it precludes and penalizes those who want the free choice of other means of paying for and providing health services/coverage.
so that in and of itself harms the integrity and consistency of Constitutional ethics and equal inclusion and representation. i worry it reinforces biases and rewards political bullying, so much that it blinds the people to any notion they are doing it. They really believe they are defending what is right, and really do not believe the opposing views have validity at all.
This is dangerous as it amounts to pushing a political religion as the only one by law.
So that is worse than socialism but spreading skewed perceptions, like conditioning people not to respond to cries for help from someone being raped because you blame the victim.
This is the reality...you are misinformed....
How could a President/Congress double the national debt and this chart be an honest appraisal?
The same way as if you divorce and your ex spouse has left you bills that are now coming in and that spouse has subtracted from income by a tax cut so you have a double whammy to deal with...that is how that happens.. It is not that you are spending heavily and irresponsibly..
LOL, better do some checking "dingleberry". The canadians are moving back to free market medical care. Their canadian obozocare is failing them big time.
Iam wondering if you have a link or source for your assertions..
Here is some information regarding Canada's Health Care and it's decision to include private health insurance.
The Supreme Court of Canada ruled Thursday that the Quebec government cannot prevent people from paying for private insurance for health-care procedures covered under medicare.
In a 4-3 decision, the panel of seven justices said banning private insurance for a list of services ranging from MRI tests to cataract surgery was unconstitutional under the Quebec Charter of Rights, given that the public system has failed to guarantee patients access to those services in a timely way.
CBC News - Top court strikes down Quebec private health-care ban
In 2011, health care spending consumed 50 percent of revenues in Canadas two largest provinces, Ontario and Quebec.
By 2017, four more provinces Saskatchewan, Alberta, British Columbia and New Brunswick will spend half of their revenues on health care, according to the institute.
Total federal, provincial and territorial government health spending has grown by 8.1 percent annually, while the national GDP in Canada rose by only 6.7 percent during the same period.
In response to the rapidly rising costs, provincial governments have raised taxes and rationed care, increasing patient wait times.
Report: Canadian health care spending unsustainable | The Daily Caller
