Manhunt On for Road Rage Shooter

[Ringel05]

Also define it, provide parameters, cultural associations and empirical applications.

I'm going to leave that to Pogo. I think it's pretty generally accepted what the term "gun culture" refers to, and that we rely on, popularize and even "push" gun use in this country. We shoot others for fun on video games and watch movies where people are shot like swatting flies. Rap music sometimes glorifies it.
But like I said, you professors can battle that out.

I can show you what is truly happening and why but you need a basis of understanding.

Guerilla Psychology and Tactical Approaches to Social Engineering, Part I

Okay. Homework completed. Now what?

That is what is happening with the so called "gun culture" claims.

Ringel, I swear if your avi weren't my favorite pirate and you didn't know about cool stuff like 18th century bone buttons, that would piss me off.
No one is trying to fool you. I already said I was going to leave the "gun culture" thing to the professors, and I am.
If you had an actual point, I guess you'd need to explain it a bit better.

The point is I can recognize targeted social engineering when I see it. That's all.

 

[Brain357]

so if he ran them off the road into a tree do we have a faded red truck problem or a tree problem?

It is another asshole crazy fuck with a gun problem.

Half of gun toters are people who get that puffed out chest when they carry a loaded weapon. These are the assholes that should not be permitted to own guns.

And you pulled that out of your ass....considering that as more People have bought guns, nothing you say would happened, happened...in fact the exact opposite has happened...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 15.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...

-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Thank you Bill Clinton crime bill.

 

[sakinago]

so if he ran them off the road into a tree do we have a faded red truck problem or a tree problem?

It is another asshole crazy fuck with a gun problem.

Half of gun toters are people who get that puffed out chest when they carry a loaded weapon. These are the assholes that should not be permitted to own guns.

And you pulled that out of your ass....considering that as more People have bought guns, nothing you say would happened, happened...in fact the exact opposite has happened...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 15.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...

-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Blah Blah Blah You & I both know the type. Strapping on that gun makes them a tough guy. Don't deny they exist & in large numbers. I ay half based on the people I know that can't go anywhere without their loaded gun & those that don't.

Then why do these concealed carry permit holder "tough guy" types have a lower negligent discharge rate than our police do?

 

[2aguy]

so if he ran them off the road into a tree do we have a faded red truck problem or a tree problem?

It is another asshole crazy fuck with a gun problem.

Half of gun toters are people who get that puffed out chest when they carry a loaded weapon. These are the assholes that should not be permitted to own guns.

And you pulled that out of your ass....considering that as more People have bought guns, nothing you say would happened, happened...in fact the exact opposite has happened...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 15.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...

-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Thank you Bill Clinton crime bill.

Yeah...no. You anti gunners told us that if more people had more guns and even worse, if those people actually carried guns, there would be blood in the street.....

and you were wrong...21 years of wrong. Nothing you have said about guns is true or based in facts or reality.....yet you keep telling us the same myths and lies....

 

[Pogo]

>> It was during the peak of the homebound commute, witnesses said, that they saw a dangerous “cat-and-mouse game” in which two motorists were jockeying for positions on a quarter-mile stretch of highway where two lanes become one.


When it was over, an 18-year-old college-bound Chester County girl was dead, her family and friends were devastated, and a nationwide manhunt had begun for the driver of a faded red pickup who shot and killed Bianca Roberson in what police said was a road rage murder.

“This homicide was completely senseless,” said West Goshen Police Chief Joseph Gleason. “A beautiful young lady of 18 years of age, in the prime of her life, getting ready to go off to college. And for reasons that are incomprehensible to me, the family is now planning her funeral instead of a going-away party for college.”

More than 20 investigators were sorting through hundreds of leads by email and phone from across the country, collecting video clips, and canvassing the streets for clues to what happened on the Route 100 bypass at about 5:30 p.m. Wednesday. Police Capt. Gregory Stone called the incident a “heartless” act unlike any he’d witnessed in his 32-year career.

Police have retrieved and reviewed video footage from PennDot cameras just moments before the shooting, Noone said. Still images can be viewed on the Crime Stoppers webpage.

.... Authorities on Friday announced a $5,000 Crimestoppers reward and urged anyone with information to contact police at 610-696-7400 or [email protected].

“This is going to come down, ladies and gentlemen, to assistance by the public,” Gleason said. “The family deserves this. Society in general deserves this.” << --- Philly.com​

He shot a stranger dead, for the purpose of getting ten feet further ahead on an exit ramp.

But what's important to remember is, "we don't have a gun problem".



theHawk

Nice story cherry picked for your political convenience. An alleged white man killing a black girl. It doesn't change the fact that thugs pull the trigger.

I didn't bring up anybody's race -- nor did I know them when I happened upon the story.
But you did, which tells us something else about you. Can't say I'm surprised.

So sure, a thug pulled the trigger (although I'm not sure why you'd try to sanitize "murderer" into "thug", one is left to assume it's got something to do with the above). And that "trigger" was connected to a what?

There isn't any relevant "race" here, and no one, including the victim's family or friends, has made that suggestion. The point here is not and has never been "who was white and who was black". The point has always been the idea of using a gun as a driving technique. And the cultural values that lead to that kind of thinking being even thinkable. This obsessive narrowminded compulsion that "the way to deal with my problems is to shoot my way out of them".

So yeah I'd say that is a problem. A bigly one.

Suuure you didn't know the races, even though it was highlighted in your link.

But anyway, to understand what I mean by a thug problem and justice system problem, this thread is a good start: Guns are not the problem in Chicago..the judges and prosecutors are...

Once again for the Illiterati ---- as it says above and has not changed, I didn't bring up race here, nor did the victim's family, nor did anyone until you did.

Perhaps your illiteracy prevents you from discerning the difference between "didn't know" and "didn't bring up". Then again perhaps you're just dishonest.

 

[theHawk]

>> It was during the peak of the homebound commute, witnesses said, that they saw a dangerous “cat-and-mouse game” in which two motorists were jockeying for positions on a quarter-mile stretch of highway where two lanes become one.


When it was over, an 18-year-old college-bound Chester County girl was dead, her family and friends were devastated, and a nationwide manhunt had begun for the driver of a faded red pickup who shot and killed Bianca Roberson in what police said was a road rage murder.

“This homicide was completely senseless,” said West Goshen Police Chief Joseph Gleason. “A beautiful young lady of 18 years of age, in the prime of her life, getting ready to go off to college. And for reasons that are incomprehensible to me, the family is now planning her funeral instead of a going-away party for college.”

More than 20 investigators were sorting through hundreds of leads by email and phone from across the country, collecting video clips, and canvassing the streets for clues to what happened on the Route 100 bypass at about 5:30 p.m. Wednesday. Police Capt. Gregory Stone called the incident a “heartless” act unlike any he’d witnessed in his 32-year career.

Police have retrieved and reviewed video footage from PennDot cameras just moments before the shooting, Noone said. Still images can be viewed on the Crime Stoppers webpage.

.... Authorities on Friday announced a $5,000 Crimestoppers reward and urged anyone with information to contact police at 610-696-7400 or [email protected].

“This is going to come down, ladies and gentlemen, to assistance by the public,” Gleason said. “The family deserves this. Society in general deserves this.” << --- Philly.com​

He shot a stranger dead, for the purpose of getting ten feet further ahead on an exit ramp.

But what's important to remember is, "we don't have a gun problem".



theHawk

Nice story cherry picked for your political convenience. An alleged white man killing a black girl. It doesn't change the fact that thugs pull the trigger.

I didn't bring up anybody's race -- nor did I know them when I happened upon the story.
But you did, which tells us something else about you. Can't say I'm surprised.

So sure, a thug pulled the trigger (although I'm not sure why you'd try to sanitize "murderer" into "thug", one is left to assume it's got something to do with the above). And that "trigger" was connected to a what?

There isn't any relevant "race" here, and no one, including the victim's family or friends, has made that suggestion. The point here is not and has never been "who was white and who was black". The point has always been the idea of using a gun as a driving technique. And the cultural values that lead to that kind of thinking being even thinkable. This obsessive narrowminded compulsion that "the way to deal with my problems is to shoot my way out of them".

So yeah I'd say that is a problem. A bigly one.

Suuure you didn't know the races, even though it was highlighted in your link.

But anyway, to understand what I mean by a thug problem and justice system problem, this thread is a good start: Guns are not the problem in Chicago..the judges and prosecutors are...

Once again for the Illiterati ---- as it says above and has not changed, I didn't bring up race here, nor did the victim's family, nor did anyone until you did.

Perhaps your illiteracy prevents you from discerning the difference between "didn't know" and "didn't bring up". Then again perhaps you're just dishonest.

Sure pogo, you didn't bring it up, you only started a thread on a story that has grabbed headlines nationwide because it is racially charged.

 

[Pogo]

oldlady i dont think any terms are generally acceptable cause of a few,reasons:

1) the media never gets the gun type correct. more often than not they call every scary looking gun "assault" which USED to have a specific meaning. fully automatic being their favorite
2) odds of any person using fully automatic is very rare, very hard to even own fully automatic.
3) the term assault rifle changes as the left needs it to. sound familiar? you tell me when does a gun become "assault"? what characteristics are,needed? when those characteristics go beyond ar15 the left tends to get mad n say "you know what i mean" and how could i when they dont?

not diminishing gun voilence but so far mass murders in the last year have been done with knives, guns, vehicles, and so much more.

but the left tends to see GUN PROBLEM while,the right sees VIOLENCE PROBLEM.

why do we not cry out for banning all things used to kill?

Because "things" ain't the issue. How we view those things is.
"Things" are not inherently violent. Violence is an act, not a thing.

 

[Pogo]

>> It was during the peak of the homebound commute, witnesses said, that they saw a dangerous “cat-and-mouse game” in which two motorists were jockeying for positions on a quarter-mile stretch of highway where two lanes become one.


When it was over, an 18-year-old college-bound Chester County girl was dead, her family and friends were devastated, and a nationwide manhunt had begun for the driver of a faded red pickup who shot and killed Bianca Roberson in what police said was a road rage murder.

“This homicide was completely senseless,” said West Goshen Police Chief Joseph Gleason. “A beautiful young lady of 18 years of age, in the prime of her life, getting ready to go off to college. And for reasons that are incomprehensible to me, the family is now planning her funeral instead of a going-away party for college.”

More than 20 investigators were sorting through hundreds of leads by email and phone from across the country, collecting video clips, and canvassing the streets for clues to what happened on the Route 100 bypass at about 5:30 p.m. Wednesday. Police Capt. Gregory Stone called the incident a “heartless” act unlike any he’d witnessed in his 32-year career.

Police have retrieved and reviewed video footage from PennDot cameras just moments before the shooting, Noone said. Still images can be viewed on the Crime Stoppers webpage.

.... Authorities on Friday announced a $5,000 Crimestoppers reward and urged anyone with information to contact police at 610-696-7400 or [email protected].

“This is going to come down, ladies and gentlemen, to assistance by the public,” Gleason said. “The family deserves this. Society in general deserves this.” << --- Philly.com​

He shot a stranger dead, for the purpose of getting ten feet further ahead on an exit ramp.

But what's important to remember is, "we don't have a gun problem".



theHawk

Nice story cherry picked for your political convenience. An alleged white man killing a black girl. It doesn't change the fact that thugs pull the trigger.

I didn't bring up anybody's race -- nor did I know them when I happened upon the story.
But you did, which tells us something else about you. Can't say I'm surprised.

So sure, a thug pulled the trigger (although I'm not sure why you'd try to sanitize "murderer" into "thug", one is left to assume it's got something to do with the above). And that "trigger" was connected to a what?

There isn't any relevant "race" here, and no one, including the victim's family or friends, has made that suggestion. The point here is not and has never been "who was white and who was black". The point has always been the idea of using a gun as a driving technique. And the cultural values that lead to that kind of thinking being even thinkable. This obsessive narrowminded compulsion that "the way to deal with my problems is to shoot my way out of them".

So yeah I'd say that is a problem. A bigly one.

Suuure you didn't know the races, even though it was highlighted in your link.

But anyway, to understand what I mean by a thug problem and justice system problem, this thread is a good start: Guns are not the problem in Chicago..the judges and prosecutors are...

Once again for the Illiterati ---- as it says above and has not changed, I didn't bring up race here, nor did the victim's family, nor did anyone until you did.

Perhaps your illiteracy prevents you from discerning the difference between "didn't know" and "didn't bring up". Then again perhaps you're just dishonest.

Sure pogo, you didn't bring it up, you only started a thread on a story that has grabbed headlines nationwide because it is racially charged.

Uhhh nnnnnnno. Number one it wasn't national before I posted it, and number two nobody but you alleges it's "racially charged".

Are you actually suggesting this guy was just out to kill blacks and figured the best place to find one would be on a merge lane? Really, you wanna go with that?

 

[Pogo]

oldlady i dont think any terms are generally acceptable cause of a few,reasons:

1) the media never gets the gun type correct. more often than not they call every scary looking gun "assault" which USED to have a specific meaning. fully automatic being their favorite
2) odds of any person using fully automatic is very rare, very hard to even own fully automatic.
3) the term assault rifle changes as the left needs it to. sound familiar? you tell me when does a gun become "assault"? what characteristics are,needed? when those characteristics go beyond ar15 the left tends to get mad n say "you know what i mean" and how could i when they dont?

not diminishing gun voilence but so far mass murders in the last year have been done with knives, guns, vehicles, and so much more.

but the left tends to see GUN PROBLEM while,the right sees VIOLENCE PROBLEM.

why do we not cry out for banning all things used to kill?

Definitions of words change with common usage and understanding is my only point. When writing legislation, it is important to define your terms carefully. When a tv broadcaster uses the term "assault rifle" we know he is talking about a semi-automatic or automatic weapon, and we know that is a gun which has been designed to fire multiple, loads of, bullets in a minute. If they were aimed at you, I believe you would rightly term it an assault.
Yes?

you are a teacher, correct? is the terminology used in the teaching world specific to things? it has been at times when i was a part of it. mechanics use a specific terminology, pest control, police - all "sub-cultures" do.

to go in and start changing the words around cause you don't like them - how would you take it coming your way? no attempt to understand, just say "that's wrong - change it".

and when a tv announcer uses "assault rifle" i assume he's stupid as shit and doesn't know what he's talking about. again - define the word and the guns by characteristics that fall under this term?

"long rifle" is now coming into popularity and at least it's more correct and tries to define things.

when ANY journalist says "automatic weapons used" my first thought is they looked at the gun and made stupid assumptions. yes the AR15 looks like the M4. but go ahead and run out to cabelas and ask to buy an automatic weapons. pawn shop. gun show. hell, go anywhere that sells guns and ask to buy an automatic weapon and tell me your results.

highly illegal for the average persona and requires specific licensing to own one and the FBI pretty much puts you on their WATCH FOREVER list. so the odds of the average person getting a fully automatic weapon is awfully remote but it sure does pump up the drama of the shooting now doesn't it?

for grins, go look at all mass shootings in the last 20 years. now tell me how many of them actually used an "automatic" weapon?

i'll tell you 0 now to save you the time but feel free to check my facts.

as for writing legislation yes you have to use terms correctly which is why people who are gun-ignorant should NOT be writing these laws. period. end of story. when they don't know a magazine is reusable and think banning high capacity ones will get rid of them after they're used - they need to sit down, shut up, and stop showing off stupidity. colorado, google it. quite funny actually.

so while your understanding of the terms is to change as you understand the topic at hand, again, do you work to understand how it is FIRST or say "i disagree and your terminology sucks, THIS is what that really is"? and expect to be taken seriously?

the terms change for the most part because the gun-grabbling liberals don't understand what they're grabbing and don't want to. they just want them gone so call them whatever it takes to achieve that goal.

see it daily on most of what they do actually.

now again - define the characteristics of an assault rifle? when do we go from "rifle" to "assault"?

and by the definition you just gave me for what you consider an assault rifle, these qualify also:

and oddly enough:

all those qualify. care to redefine?

What in the wide wide world of fuck frickin' DIFFERENCE does it make what kind of firearm is involved?

If you're hit by a drunk driver are you gonna stand around arguing over whether the drunk was driving a Silverado or an S10? Does that somehow heal your injuries?

 

[Pogo]

I've been informed the thread has been moved from Current Events to "Law and Justice" --- which is ridiculous. The fact that there is (was) a suspect at large who's now in custody awaiting the legal process in no way makes it about the "law and justice system". The thread is about the nature of the crime -- the gun culture. Also about road rage, also about masculinity issues and violence in general. It's not about "Law and Justice". It's pretty clear that murder is already illegal.

Looks more like somebody is trying to bury a thread that brings up issues he doesn't want aired. How original is that.

 

[Pogo]

I'm going to leave that to Pogo. I think it's pretty generally accepted what the term "gun culture" refers to, and that we rely on, popularize and even "push" gun use in this country. We shoot others for fun on video games and watch movies where people are shot like swatting flies. Rap music sometimes glorifies it.
But like I said, you professors can battle that out.

I can show you what is truly happening and why but you need a basis of understanding.

Guerilla Psychology and Tactical Approaches to Social Engineering, Part I

Okay. Homework completed. Now what?

That is what is happening with the so called "gun culture" claims.

Ringel, I swear if your avi weren't my favorite pirate and you didn't know about cool stuff like 18th century bone buttons, that would piss me off.
No one is trying to fool you. I already said I was going to leave the "gun culture" thing to the professors, and I am.
If you had an actual point, I guess you'd need to explain it a bit better.

The point is I can recognize targeted social engineering when I see it. That's all.

Ah, 'targeted social engineering' ---- we're talking about TV now? That's fair.

I tried to look at your link above but it tried to sell me some kinda software. Never got the article.

 

[Pogo]

>> It was during the peak of the homebound commute, witnesses said, that they saw a dangerous “cat-and-mouse game” in which two motorists were jockeying for positions on a quarter-mile stretch of highway where two lanes become one.


When it was over, an 18-year-old college-bound Chester County girl was dead, her family and friends were devastated, and a nationwide manhunt had begun for the driver of a faded red pickup who shot and killed Bianca Roberson in what police said was a road rage murder.

“This homicide was completely senseless,” said West Goshen Police Chief Joseph Gleason. “A beautiful young lady of 18 years of age, in the prime of her life, getting ready to go off to college. And for reasons that are incomprehensible to me, the family is now planning her funeral instead of a going-away party for college.”

More than 20 investigators were sorting through hundreds of leads by email and phone from across the country, collecting video clips, and canvassing the streets for clues to what happened on the Route 100 bypass at about 5:30 p.m. Wednesday. Police Capt. Gregory Stone called the incident a “heartless” act unlike any he’d witnessed in his 32-year career.

Police have retrieved and reviewed video footage from PennDot cameras just moments before the shooting, Noone said. Still images can be viewed on the Crime Stoppers webpage.

.... Authorities on Friday announced a $5,000 Crimestoppers reward and urged anyone with information to contact police at 610-696-7400 or [email protected].

“This is going to come down, ladies and gentlemen, to assistance by the public,” Gleason said. “The family deserves this. Society in general deserves this.” << --- Philly.com​

He shot a stranger dead, for the purpose of getting ten feet further ahead on an exit ramp.

But what's important to remember is, "we don't have a gun problem".



theHawk

The gun didn't shoot itself, bub.

The Road Rage driver is responsible for his behavior.

Of course he is. No one has suggested otherwise.
That's why there's a manhunt on for him, the first word in my title. What are you even talking about?

Gotta say, they're looking for the man, not the gun. Hence manhunt, not gunhunt.

However, you did politicize this tragedy.

"But what's important to remember is, "we don't have a gun problem." That type of statement doesn't mesh with the rest of the post. It sounds like a contradiction to say "the man is responsible" and then turn around and suggest we have a gun problem. It sounds like someone trying to push a political point.

Are we looking to have it both ways Pogo?

It's kind of an inside joke --- a jab back at the poster named in the OP (Hawk) throwing his own assertion back in his face. That's why I provided a link to the thread where he laid it down.

But no "both ways" involved --- neither "manhunt" nor "gun problem" implies anything political. The first is an act of law enforcement the second is a social issue.

 

[Pogo]

>> It was during the peak of the homebound commute, witnesses said, that they saw a dangerous “cat-and-mouse game” in which two motorists were jockeying for positions on a quarter-mile stretch of highway where two lanes become one.


When it was over, an 18-year-old college-bound Chester County girl was dead, her family and friends were devastated, and a nationwide manhunt had begun for the driver of a faded red pickup who shot and killed Bianca Roberson in what police said was a road rage murder.

“This homicide was completely senseless,” said West Goshen Police Chief Joseph Gleason. “A beautiful young lady of 18 years of age, in the prime of her life, getting ready to go off to college. And for reasons that are incomprehensible to me, the family is now planning her funeral instead of a going-away party for college.”

More than 20 investigators were sorting through hundreds of leads by email and phone from across the country, collecting video clips, and canvassing the streets for clues to what happened on the Route 100 bypass at about 5:30 p.m. Wednesday. Police Capt. Gregory Stone called the incident a “heartless” act unlike any he’d witnessed in his 32-year career.

Police have retrieved and reviewed video footage from PennDot cameras just moments before the shooting, Noone said. Still images can be viewed on the Crime Stoppers webpage.

.... Authorities on Friday announced a $5,000 Crimestoppers reward and urged anyone with information to contact police at 610-696-7400 or [email protected].

“This is going to come down, ladies and gentlemen, to assistance by the public,” Gleason said. “The family deserves this. Society in general deserves this.” << --- Philly.com​

He shot a stranger dead, for the purpose of getting ten feet further ahead on an exit ramp.

But what's important to remember is, "we don't have a gun problem".



theHawk

I never expected you to take a tragedy and make it political.

The conversation needs to be had. People would like to prevent these tragedies.

i tried having it and pogo got upset n just kept being an ass. i gave up.

Pogo believes we need to change the culture, the common definition of being "a man" in this society, to one that does not include violence and killing as our "go to" solution to problems. Now I agree that how we do that is fuzzy. Teach our kids that, yes. If we are teachers, ministers or otherwise have a lot of contact with kids, talk to our children about it. What do we do with the media and Hollywood in this country that glorifies violence? Video games? Violence in music? How do we slow any of this down, change this culture just by having this great idea? Pogo isn't wrong, but I need a lot more help seeing how that idea will look in action.

Changing the culture has always been the key to controlling the population in certain areas. The so called gun culture is a myth perpetrated to press an agenda.

When a man in a parking lot decides the music in the car next to him is too loud for his tastes and the way to deal with it is to shoot into the car and kill a kid, and when a second man decides he's got personal issues with his GF and the way to deal with that is to shoot the GF and the infant child, and then drive to his coaches and blow his own brains out in front of them, and then a third man decides his personal power issues require him to shoot his own mother in her bed and then barge into the local school and shoot 20 innocent children and a couple of their teachers, and then a fourth man decides that whatever his personal power issues are require him to call the local fire department and when they show up start picking them off as a sniper, and ALL of these happen within the space of less than one month, yeah we definitely have a gun culture and a masculinity-definition issue.

The only "agenda" associated with Gun Culture, not counting the self-perpetuation interests of the NRA and arms dealers, is simple profit for makers of TV shows and movies and video games and comics and toy manufacturers (etc etc etc) who know damn well they can get the attention they crave, and therefore the ratings, the ticket buyers, the counter sales, etc etc etc though endless discharges of guns and blood and guts, because the unwashed will lap it up. And we must needs throw the commercial news media in there too on its choices of what defines "news" for exactly the same reasons.

All of this, while it lines the pockets of the purveyors, also presents the grand illusion that shooting and blood and guts (etc etc etc) is the normal way of the world, and removes us spiritually from the sanctity of the Life force (and no you're not going to get a quantification on spirituality -- that's not possible) and injects the idea that "being a man" means to shoot, and kill, and blood and guts are trophies to be boasted about rather than abhorrences to be ashamed of.

 

[miketx]

>> It was during the peak of the homebound commute, witnesses said, that they saw a dangerous “cat-and-mouse game” in which two motorists were jockeying for positions on a quarter-mile stretch of highway where two lanes become one.


When it was over, an 18-year-old college-bound Chester County girl was dead, her family and friends were devastated, and a nationwide manhunt had begun for the driver of a faded red pickup who shot and killed Bianca Roberson in what police said was a road rage murder.

“This homicide was completely senseless,” said West Goshen Police Chief Joseph Gleason. “A beautiful young lady of 18 years of age, in the prime of her life, getting ready to go off to college. And for reasons that are incomprehensible to me, the family is now planning her funeral instead of a going-away party for college.”

More than 20 investigators were sorting through hundreds of leads by email and phone from across the country, collecting video clips, and canvassing the streets for clues to what happened on the Route 100 bypass at about 5:30 p.m. Wednesday. Police Capt. Gregory Stone called the incident a “heartless” act unlike any he’d witnessed in his 32-year career.

Police have retrieved and reviewed video footage from PennDot cameras just moments before the shooting, Noone said. Still images can be viewed on the Crime Stoppers webpage.

.... Authorities on Friday announced a $5,000 Crimestoppers reward and urged anyone with information to contact police at 610-696-7400 or [email protected].

“This is going to come down, ladies and gentlemen, to assistance by the public,” Gleason said. “The family deserves this. Society in general deserves this.” << --- Philly.com​

He shot a stranger dead, for the purpose of getting ten feet further ahead on an exit ramp.

But what's important to remember is, "we don't have a gun problem".



theHawk

The gun didn't do it by itself, lib.

 

[MaryL]

I never expected you to take a tragedy and make it political.

The conversation needs to be had. People would like to prevent these tragedies.

i tried having it and pogo got upset n just kept being an ass. i gave up.

Pogo believes we need to change the culture, the common definition of being "a man" in this society, to one that does not include violence and killing as our "go to" solution to problems. Now I agree that how we do that is fuzzy. Teach our kids that, yes. If we are teachers, ministers or otherwise have a lot of contact with kids, talk to our children about it. What do we do with the media and Hollywood in this country that glorifies violence? Video games? Violence in music? How do we slow any of this down, change this culture just by having this great idea? Pogo isn't wrong, but I need a lot more help seeing how that idea will look in action.

Changing the culture has always been the key to controlling the population in certain areas. The so called gun culture is a myth perpetrated to press an agenda.

When a man in a parking lot decides the music in the car next to him is too loud for his tastes and the way to deal with it is to shoot into the car and kill a kid, and when a second man decides he's got personal issues with his GF and the way to deal with that is to shoot the GF and the infant child, and then drive to his coaches and blow his own brains out in front of them, and then a third man decides his personal power issues require him to shoot his own mother in her bed and then barge into the local school and shoot 20 innocent children and a couple of their teachers, and then a fourth man decides that whatever his personal power issues are require him to call the local fire department and when they show up start picking them off as a sniper, and ALL of these happen within the space of less than one month, yeah we definitely have a gun culture and a masculinity-definition issue.

The only "agenda" associated with Gun Culture, not counting the self-perpetuation interests of the NRA and arms dealers, is simple profit for makers of TV shows and movies and video games and comics and toy manufacturers (etc etc etc) who know damn well they can get the attention they crave, and therefore the ratings, the ticket buyers, the counter sales, etc etc etc though endless discharges of guns and blood and guts, because the unwashed will lap it up. And we must needs throw the commercial news media in there too on its choices of what defines "news" for exactly the same reasons.

All of this, while it lines the pockets of the purveyors, also presents the grand illusion that shooting and blood and guts (etc etc etc) is the normal way of the world, and removes us spiritually from the sanctity of the Life force (and no you're not going to get a quantification on spirituality -- that's not possible) and injects the idea that "being a man" means to shoot, and kill, and blood and guts are trophies to be boasted about rather than abhorrences to be ashamed of.

Well, people with loud radios acting obnoxious, We could make an exception of. I can't believe how uncivil and horrible people think they can act before they push someone's buttons and bad things happen. I have been tempted to wring their bloody necks for acting like such arrogant jerks. Slightly off topic. Still, I don't condone guns or violence.

 

[Pogo]

Road Rage Cases With Guns More Than Double in 3 Years, Report Says

Thought so....they don't even say if the shootings are by legal gun owners, or people who can legally carry guns......just as I thought.....and the road rage incident they use as an example....the police didn't even take the guy into immediate custody and later only arrested him after they realized he shot a proffessional athlete....and considering that they were both yelling at each other, the actual aggressor in the attack hasn't been identified......

But thanks for linking to an article that doesn't include that information......

It doesn't fucking matter whether they're carrying "legally" or not. It's all about the motivation. If a killer has teh motivation he's going to act on it, law or no law.

You gotta get over this infantile paralysis that laws are the answer to everything. They AIN'T.

if we take it as fact a killer has the motivations, are you saying no gun he puts those motivations away?

seemscto me hed use something else.

i went back n read. you never provide solutions, just bitch at people a,lot n get in needless fights.

have fun cause it only seems that is your real goal.

Finally -- a real question.

A "killer" would have the same motivation, if he was out to "kill", sure. But that's not what we're talking about here -- this is about the idea of specifically shooting. There's a distinct difference. As you must know not every shooting is a killing. Just as saying "we have a gun problem" is in no way the same as saying "we have a murder problem".

I'll go more into this a bit later, got something to do.

ive asked a lot of real questions. you didnt like em n blamed me for not paying attention.

take all the guns away would a killer still want to kill?

Yes. A killer, if that's his motivation, still has that motivation. If he hasn't got a gun he finds another way.

I'm getting back to finally finishing this thought after a week away -- had to leave town (and drive through 12 states) to deal with a death and burial.

We're distinguishing here between "murder" and "random violence" (as in either a mass shooter or the present case of a spontaneous killing). Murder is targeted and personal. A philandering spouse, a collapsed business deal, a revenge for something, a witness who knows too much. Murder has a specific target with a specific name for a specific purpose.

Mass or random killing as in the current event has no such specificity. Despar didn't murder Roberson because of who she was or something she did in the past. She just happened to be "in his way". Could have been anybody.

Here's Emilie Parker:

​

She died in the Sandy Hook shooting. She was six years old. One of twenty kids and four adults Adam Lanza shot to death. I only single her out so that she becomes a human with a history and not just a number.

Adam Lanza didn't shoot "Emilie Parker" or anyone else with a name and a history and a photo. He shot at whoever was available in his gunsights. Any body, literally any body, would suffice, and did. He had no quarrel with Emilie Parker or anyone else. He was committing gun violence for its own return, and the return would have been identical regardless who the targets were. In other words they were not humans to him; they were just tools.

I've made this point many times before ---- mass random shooters aren't committing murder for the sake of murder, as in specifically eliminating some specific person. Murder per se is not their objective; it is just a side effect. Their actual objective is a self-centred sensory feedback. The sensory feedback that addresses a shaken and sick ego wrapped up in its own self-pity so tightly that they have convinced themselves they're hopelessly powerless, that this powerlessness is overwhelming, and that the way they can ultimately address it is to spray bullets on random targets who either fall helplessly bleeding to death or run in terror. In that moment they achieve the Power that so eludes them.

And that's exactly why the firearm is the weapon of choice. As long as you have a secure position with visual access to targets, that moment is ultimately powerful. He is in that moment inferior to no one and no thing including the law. He is the king of the world, however briefly, as long as he can keep the bullets going out. And that's why they're almost always male, and often in an obviously power-challenged situation such as the common case of a disgruntled worker.

A murderer is out to eliminate somebody specific. That goal is equally achieved whether through a gun, a poisoned meal, strangulation, a blunt insturment or even a hired hit man where the killer doesn't have to watch. None of them are done for sensory feedback; they're done to eliminate somebody personally.

A mass shooter OTOH is anything but personal. Adam Lanza would not have even gone to the school without a gun. There would have been no point in stabbing or poisoning or strangling 20 kids and four adults. James Holmes wouldn't have gone into the movie theater without a gun. Jared Loughner doesn't go to Gabby Giffords' rally without a gun. Etc etc etc. The gun, and what it does for the shooter, is the whole point --- not the murders. They're just a byproduct. Who the victim is matters not a whit, as long as they bleed, and panic, and scream. Because the shooter isn't there to eliminate anyone specific --- he's simply using whoever is available for his self-centered sensory feedback of blood and guts and screaming.

The same sensory feedback --- exactly the same sensory feedback --- that he's been teased by in every movie house and every evening of television and every video game and even the superhero comic books and toys he spent his time with as a child. All of them absolutely unified in sending the messages "shooting is cool" and "in the face of adversity, the thing to do is shoot something, because then you have Power".

That definition -- that message --- is the root of the gun problem right there. And notice that every pronoun is male. That's deliberate.

And so trivially does it desensitize the masses, that it's actually thinkable for a motorist whose greatest issue in the moment is how to merge into a single lane, to decide he can manage this problem by shooting at it. Because then you have Power.

To look at it another way, mass/random shooting has the same amount to do with murder as rape has to do with sex. In a sense it's the same dynamic derived from the same inadequacy.

 

[Pogo]

The conversation needs to be had. People would like to prevent these tragedies.

i tried having it and pogo got upset n just kept being an ass. i gave up.

Pogo believes we need to change the culture, the common definition of being "a man" in this society, to one that does not include violence and killing as our "go to" solution to problems. Now I agree that how we do that is fuzzy. Teach our kids that, yes. If we are teachers, ministers or otherwise have a lot of contact with kids, talk to our children about it. What do we do with the media and Hollywood in this country that glorifies violence? Video games? Violence in music? How do we slow any of this down, change this culture just by having this great idea? Pogo isn't wrong, but I need a lot more help seeing how that idea will look in action.

Changing the culture has always been the key to controlling the population in certain areas. The so called gun culture is a myth perpetrated to press an agenda.

When a man in a parking lot decides the music in the car next to him is too loud for his tastes and the way to deal with it is to shoot into the car and kill a kid, and when a second man decides he's got personal issues with his GF and the way to deal with that is to shoot the GF and the infant child, and then drive to his coaches and blow his own brains out in front of them, and then a third man decides his personal power issues require him to shoot his own mother in her bed and then barge into the local school and shoot 20 innocent children and a couple of their teachers, and then a fourth man decides that whatever his personal power issues are require him to call the local fire department and when they show up start picking them off as a sniper, and ALL of these happen within the space of less than one month, yeah we definitely have a gun culture and a masculinity-definition issue.

The only "agenda" associated with Gun Culture, not counting the self-perpetuation interests of the NRA and arms dealers, is simple profit for makers of TV shows and movies and video games and comics and toy manufacturers (etc etc etc) who know damn well they can get the attention they crave, and therefore the ratings, the ticket buyers, the counter sales, etc etc etc though endless discharges of guns and blood and guts, because the unwashed will lap it up. And we must needs throw the commercial news media in there too on its choices of what defines "news" for exactly the same reasons.

All of this, while it lines the pockets of the purveyors, also presents the grand illusion that shooting and blood and guts (etc etc etc) is the normal way of the world, and removes us spiritually from the sanctity of the Life force (and no you're not going to get a quantification on spirituality -- that's not possible) and injects the idea that "being a man" means to shoot, and kill, and blood and guts are trophies to be boasted about rather than abhorrences to be ashamed of.

Well, people with loud radios acting obnoxious, We could make an exception of. I can't believe how uncivil and horrible people think they can act before they push someone's buttons and bad things happen. I have been tempted to wring their bloody necks for acting like such arrogant jerks. Slightly off topic. Still, I don't condone guns or violence.

Hey can we get a cannon out here for my neighbor's kid with the amazing unmufflered car?

​

 

[miketx]

i tried having it and pogo got upset n just kept being an ass. i gave up.

Pogo believes we need to change the culture, the common definition of being "a man" in this society, to one that does not include violence and killing as our "go to" solution to problems. Now I agree that how we do that is fuzzy. Teach our kids that, yes. If we are teachers, ministers or otherwise have a lot of contact with kids, talk to our children about it. What do we do with the media and Hollywood in this country that glorifies violence? Video games? Violence in music? How do we slow any of this down, change this culture just by having this great idea? Pogo isn't wrong, but I need a lot more help seeing how that idea will look in action.

Changing the culture has always been the key to controlling the population in certain areas. The so called gun culture is a myth perpetrated to press an agenda.

When a man in a parking lot decides the music in the car next to him is too loud for his tastes and the way to deal with it is to shoot into the car and kill a kid, and when a second man decides he's got personal issues with his GF and the way to deal with that is to shoot the GF and the infant child, and then drive to his coaches and blow his own brains out in front of them, and then a third man decides his personal power issues require him to shoot his own mother in her bed and then barge into the local school and shoot 20 innocent children and a couple of their teachers, and then a fourth man decides that whatever his personal power issues are require him to call the local fire department and when they show up start picking them off as a sniper, and ALL of these happen within the space of less than one month, yeah we definitely have a gun culture and a masculinity-definition issue.

The only "agenda" associated with Gun Culture, not counting the self-perpetuation interests of the NRA and arms dealers, is simple profit for makers of TV shows and movies and video games and comics and toy manufacturers (etc etc etc) who know damn well they can get the attention they crave, and therefore the ratings, the ticket buyers, the counter sales, etc etc etc though endless discharges of guns and blood and guts, because the unwashed will lap it up. And we must needs throw the commercial news media in there too on its choices of what defines "news" for exactly the same reasons.

All of this, while it lines the pockets of the purveyors, also presents the grand illusion that shooting and blood and guts (etc etc etc) is the normal way of the world, and removes us spiritually from the sanctity of the Life force (and no you're not going to get a quantification on spirituality -- that's not possible) and injects the idea that "being a man" means to shoot, and kill, and blood and guts are trophies to be boasted about rather than abhorrences to be ashamed of.

Well, people with loud radios acting obnoxious, We could make an exception of. I can't believe how uncivil and horrible people think they can act before they push someone's buttons and bad things happen. I have been tempted to wring their bloody necks for acting like such arrogant jerks. Slightly off topic. Still, I don't condone guns or violence.

Hey can we get a cannon out here for my neighbor's kid with the amazing unmufflered car?

​

Why do you want to kill a kid with an unmufflered car? Is he a republican?

 

[Ringel05]

I can show you what is truly happening and why but you need a basis of understanding.

Guerilla Psychology and Tactical Approaches to Social Engineering, Part I

Okay. Homework completed. Now what?

That is what is happening with the so called "gun culture" claims.

Ringel, I swear if your avi weren't my favorite pirate and you didn't know about cool stuff like 18th century bone buttons, that would piss me off.
No one is trying to fool you. I already said I was going to leave the "gun culture" thing to the professors, and I am.
If you had an actual point, I guess you'd need to explain it a bit better.

The point is I can recognize targeted social engineering when I see it. That's all.

Ah, 'targeted social engineering' ---- we're talking about TV now? That's fair.

I tried to look at your link above but it tried to sell me some kinda software. Never got the article.

Just checked the link, not trying to sell me anything.
Granted there are small groups and individuals that can possibly be considered to have or be part of a gun culture, the targeted social engineering is when people or groups attempt to apply that definition with a broad brush in a negative light to promote a specific agenda.

 

[MaryL]

i tried having it and pogo got upset n just kept being an ass. i gave up.

Pogo believes we need to change the culture, the common definition of being "a man" in this society, to one that does not include violence and killing as our "go to" solution to problems. Now I agree that how we do that is fuzzy. Teach our kids that, yes. If we are teachers, ministers or otherwise have a lot of contact with kids, talk to our children about it. What do we do with the media and Hollywood in this country that glorifies violence? Video games? Violence in music? How do we slow any of this down, change this culture just by having this great idea? Pogo isn't wrong, but I need a lot more help seeing how that idea will look in action.

Changing the culture has always been the key to controlling the population in certain areas. The so called gun culture is a myth perpetrated to press an agenda.

When a man in a parking lot decides the music in the car next to him is too loud for his tastes and the way to deal with it is to shoot into the car and kill a kid, and when a second man decides he's got personal issues with his GF and the way to deal with that is to shoot the GF and the infant child, and then drive to his coaches and blow his own brains out in front of them, and then a third man decides his personal power issues require him to shoot his own mother in her bed and then barge into the local school and shoot 20 innocent children and a couple of their teachers, and then a fourth man decides that whatever his personal power issues are require him to call the local fire department and when they show up start picking them off as a sniper, and ALL of these happen within the space of less than one month, yeah we definitely have a gun culture and a masculinity-definition issue.

The only "agenda" associated with Gun Culture, not counting the self-perpetuation interests of the NRA and arms dealers, is simple profit for makers of TV shows and movies and video games and comics and toy manufacturers (etc etc etc) who know damn well they can get the attention they crave, and therefore the ratings, the ticket buyers, the counter sales, etc etc etc though endless discharges of guns and blood and guts, because the unwashed will lap it up. And we must needs throw the commercial news media in there too on its choices of what defines "news" for exactly the same reasons.

All of this, while it lines the pockets of the purveyors, also presents the grand illusion that shooting and blood and guts (etc etc etc) is the normal way of the world, and removes us spiritually from the sanctity of the Life force (and no you're not going to get a quantification on spirituality -- that's not possible) and injects the idea that "being a man" means to shoot, and kill, and blood and guts are trophies to be boasted about rather than abhorrences to be ashamed of.

Well, people with loud radios acting obnoxious, We could make an exception of. I can't believe how uncivil and horrible people think they can act before they push someone's buttons and bad things happen. I have been tempted to wring their bloody necks for acting like such arrogant jerks. Slightly off topic. Still, I don't condone guns or violence.

Hey can we get a cannon out here for my neighbor's kid with the amazing unmufflered car?

​

No, we restrain ourselves like civilized humans. In an increasingly UNCIVILIZED world. We have loud radios (loud music is banned by the Geneva convention as torture, by the way) We need to ban loud radios, the same way we we need to ban guns, this is getting ridiculous. Loud music is torture, And Guns kill.