Many paths...one God?

[Meriweather]

And of course everyone forms their own opinion that's the whole point of researching any subject other than the hard sciences

Simply because your idea of research is all about forming your own opinion does not make it true that forming their own opinion is the whole point of for everyone else. It is not, but I will accept that it is true for you.

For many of us research is going to the trouble of seeing something through the eyes of another, pinpointing not only what they are saying but how and why and to whom they are saying it. It is about someone else's perspective, not a reason to reinforce one's own opinion, often already formed before the research--or their sole reason for researching--to reinforce an already formed opinion.

Contrary to your already formed opinion of me, this discussion is not about insulting you--or even saying you are wrong. I am merely pointing to another perspective--one where one isn't even thinking of one's own opinion, but is completely focused on uncovering the reasons and the intents of the person who was telling the story to his original audience. Those reasons have nothing to do with forming the opinions of people who would live thousands of years later in a very different culture, with a very different history.

Could it be you have been researching the Bible to reinforce your opinions? Perhaps keep in mind that many of us have quite different reasons for biblical research--which have nothing to do with coming to an opinion(s). That may be your reason, but there are other reasons.

 

[Blues Man]

Simply because your idea of research is all about forming your own opinion does not make it true that forming their own opinion is the whole point of for everyone else. It is not, but I will accept that it is true for you.

For many of us research is going to the trouble of seeing something through the eyes of another, pinpointing not only what they are saying but how and why and to whom they are saying it. It is about someone else's perspective, not a reason to reinforce one's own opinion, often already formed before the research--or their sole reason for researching--to reinforce an already formed opinion.

Contrary to your already formed opinion of me, this discussion is not about insulting you--or even saying you are wrong. I am merely pointing to another perspective--one where one isn't even thinking of one's own opinion, but is completely focused on uncovering the reasons and the intents of the person who was telling the story to his original audience. Those reasons have nothing to do with forming the opinions of people who would live thousands of years later in a very different culture, with a very different history.

Could it be you have been researching the Bible to reinforce your opinions? Perhaps keep in mind that many of us have quite different reasons for biblical research--which have nothing to do with coming to an opinion(s). That may be your reason, but there are other reasons.

And you can form your own opinion while still acknowledging another perspective.

The 2 are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Meriweather]

And you can form your own opinion while still acknowledging another perspective.

Or, we can be self-effacing, erasing our own egos/opinions so as to focus entirely on the crux as it was originally presented. That crux does not need our opinion. Perhaps think of it as understanding over opinion?

Let's take that earlier example of the Ten Plagues, of the first born dying. What is your understanding versus what is your opinion?

 

[Indeependent]

Religion fascinates me, in part because there are so many common threads in all the faiths. Perhaps we are like the tale of the blind man and tbe elephant, each of us only able to discern a small portion of what is God. For some, we need an intermediary... like a prophet to show us a path. For others, it is a self-paced journey.

For commonalities...we all know the Golden Rule, and all religions seem to have some version of this. It makes sense, if we followed it, we would be a better society.

But another commonality exists that is interesting: the acquisition of forbidden knowledge.

In some, this is represented by the acquisition of fire (which in actuality was a major turning point in human development. The Greek Promethius defied Zeus and stole fire to give to man. Across the world, a continent away, Coyote, Rabbit and Crow stoke the fire.

For the Abrahamic faiths, it was Eve and the Apple...which you have to admit kind of sucks, forever blaming Woman for Man’s inability to control himself.

In all cases though...there is a punishment for loss of innocence and it usually involves a seperation from the divine even as it separates humanity from his fellow animals.

Food for thought.

There was an apple?
Actually, the type of tree is never mentioned.

 

[Indeependent]

Religion fascinates me, in part because there are so many common threads in all the faiths. Perhaps we are like the tale of the blind man and tbe elephant, each of us only able to discern a small portion of what is God. For some, we need an intermediary... like a prophet to show us a path. For others, it is a self-paced journey.

For commonalities...we all know the Golden Rule, and all religions seem to have some version of this. It makes sense, if we followed it, we would be a better society.

But another commonality exists that is interesting: the acquisition of forbidden knowledge.

In some, this is represented by the acquisition of fire (which in actuality was a major turning point in human development. The Greek Promethius defied Zeus and stole fire to give to man. Across the world, a continent away, Coyote, Rabbit and Crow stoke the fire.

For the Abrahamic faiths, it was Eve and the Apple...which you have to admit kind of sucks, forever blaming Woman for Man’s inability to control himself.

In all cases though...there is a punishment for loss of innocence and it usually involves a seperation from the divine even as it separates humanity from his fellow animals.

Food for thought.

There is no such thing as forbidden knowledge.
The issue is using your knowledge to corrupt the concept behind the facts.
The word “Rah” does not mean evil, it means corrupt.

 

[Blues Man]

Or, we can be self-effacing, erasing our own egos/opinions so as to focus entirely on the crux as it was originally presented. That crux does not need our opinion. Perhaps think of it as understanding over opinion?

Let's take that earlier example of the Ten Plagues, of the first born dying. What is your understanding versus what is your opinion?

So you want to be an empty vessel with no thoughts of your own but what others put in your head?

You have to have some sort of opinion of the veracity of any statement in you want to tell yourself or others that what you believe is the truth.

The fact that the "wrath of God" is a subject in the bible is just another contradiction of the image of the pure love and goodness thing

 

[Meriweather]

So you want to be an empty vessel with no thoughts of your own but what others put in your head?

Grin. Have you ever tried to clear every thought from your mind? If so, then you know how impossible that is. The reverse is true. I know my own thoughts, they are always with me. Always. It is refreshing to make room for the thoughts of others.

 

[Indeependent]

So you want to be an empty vessel with no thoughts of your own but what others put in your head?

You have to have some sort of opinion of the veracity of any statement in you want to tell yourself or others that what you believe is the truth.

The fact that the "wrath of God" is a subject in the bible is just another contradiction of the image of the pure love and goodness thing

As a definition, Wrath is a manifestation of corrupting the truth.
Someone who knows better will always incur someone’s wrath.

 

[Meriweather]

The fact that the "wrath of God" is a subject in the bible is just another contradiction of the image of the pure love and goodness thing

Perhaps you have noticed that God's wrath arises out of compassion for those suffering from injustice? It is a lesson in compassion and how compassion without teeth or backbone and the willingness to fight against injustice is feeble and useless. Kind of like telling someone without a coat, "I feel for you. Good luck and stay warm!"

In God's wrath we see love and concern for those who are being treated unjustly.

 

[Stann]

IMO religion and gods have little to do with each other.

Religion was invented by men and has been used by those in power as a control on society.

Totally agree, religion serves itself. I cannot believe people actually send money and those evangelists are still on TV. That's way beyond hypocrisy, that's just plain mean and criminal.

 

[Blues Man]

As a definition, Wrath is a manifestation of corrupting the truth.
Someone who knows better will always incur someone’s wrath.

No one is supposed to know better than a god

 

[Blues Man]

Perhaps you have noticed that God's wrath arises out of compassion for those suffering from injustice? It is a lesson in compassion and how compassion without teeth or backbone and the willingness to fight against injustice is feeble and useless. Kind of like telling someone without a coat, "I feel for you. Good luck and stay warm!"

In God's wrath we see love and concern for those who are being treated unjustly.

So wrath. one of the 7 deadly sins , is now an act of compassion?

The contradictions never end do they?

 

[Indeependent]

No one is supposed to know better than a god

Humans are granted knowledge by God and have the onus of responsibility.

 

[Meriweather]

So wrath. one of the 7 deadly sins , is now an act of compassion?

The contradictions never end do they?

Most are familiar with righteous anger, the anger that prompts us to take action to right a wrong. For example, once came across a group of boys stoning a dog. What was the appropriate emotion in these circumstances? Happiness? Being filled with great peace? I was filled with wrath, commanded the boys to stop--and that I had better never see them with a stone again. I took the dog with me, he needed a bath so I gave him one, petted him, and then followed him until he found his way safely home.

In the same way, when God sees injustice to the poor and those weaker, should His response be happiness and a feeling of great peace. Should he pat those who are treating other unjustly on the head or should He warn that such behavior leads to being overthrown? In Biblical times, the prophets warned people of their bad behavior, and destruction would come if no change was made. Destruction usually came in the form of being overthrown and captured by another nation.

Is it "contradictions" that are a problem, or is it misunderstanding the difference between righteous anger/wrath toward deliberate and uncaring wrong doing towards others and the murderous anger/wrath because one feels someone has personally wronged him/her?

 

[Coyote]

So wrath. one of the 7 deadly sins , is now an act of compassion?

The contradictions never end do they?

Ya...this one I don’t get either since the wrath ends killing a lot innocent people in the process.

 

[BreezeWood]

Most are familiar with righteous anger, the anger that prompts us to take action to right a wrong. For example, once came across a group of boys stoning a dog. What was the appropriate emotion in these circumstances? Happiness? Being filled with great peace? I was filled with wrath, commanded the boys to stop--and that I had better never see them with a stone again. I took the dog with me, he needed a bath so I gave him one, petted him, and then followed him until he found his way safely home.

In the same way, when God sees injustice to the poor and those weaker, should His response be happiness and a feeling of great peace. Should he pat those who are treating other unjustly on the head or should He warn that such behavior leads to being overthrown? In Biblical times, the prophets warned people of their bad behavior, and destruction would come if no change was made. Destruction usually came in the form of being overthrown and captured by another nation.

Is it "contradictions" that are a problem, or is it misunderstanding the difference between righteous anger/wrath toward deliberate and uncaring wrong doing towards others and the murderous anger/wrath because one feels someone has personally wronged him/her?

.
funny how the christian bible does not bring to justice those who crucified the 1st century religious itinerant and the multitudes of other unfortunates who suffered the same punishments for similar unknown reasons to not even be mentioned by that book.

the state religion of the roman empire. that scoffs and omits the true culprit found in their writings - 1st century liberation theology.

 

[Disir]

Religion fascinates me, in part because there are so many common threads in all the faiths. Perhaps we are like the tale of the blind man and tbe elephant, each of us only able to discern a small portion of what is God. For some, we need an intermediary... like a prophet to show us a path. For others, it is a self-paced journey.

For commonalities...we all know the Golden Rule, and all religions seem to have some version of this. It makes sense, if we followed it, we would be a better society.

But another commonality exists that is interesting: the acquisition of forbidden knowledge.

In some, this is represented by the acquisition of fire (which in actuality was a major turning point in human development. The Greek Promethius defied Zeus and stole fire to give to man. Across the world, a continent away, Coyote, Rabbit and Crow stoke the fire.

For the Abrahamic faiths, it was Eve and the Apple...which you have to admit kind of sucks, forever blaming Woman for Man’s inability to control himself.

In all cases though...there is a punishment for loss of innocence and it usually involves a seperation from the divine even as it separates humanity from his fellow animals.

Food for thought.

There was an entire group in the third through fifth centuries that was dedicated to finding common themes in all of the religions. Neoplatonism.

That said, I think a lot was/is lost with monotheism. I'm not saying that there is something wrong with it. I'm not slamming any of the Abrahamic faiths. I think significant and beautiful details were lost in the one-stop shop method.

 

[skye]

All roads lead not to Rome.

All roads lead to GOD...our Eternal Father.

 

[K9Buck]

OK so killing all the first born sons was the same as a flood?

God giveth, God taketh away.

All that is belongs to God.

 

[K9Buck]

Personally, I have never understood the animus that has existed between Christianity, Islam, and Judaism. We all worship the same God. Kind of stupid really.....

It seems that the animus primarily stems from Islam against Christianity and Judaism. It's not the latter that has engaged in so much murder against the former.