Many paths...one God?

[ding]

Marx was right. Karl, not Groucho,
Religion is, in fact, the "opiate of the masses."

The sole purpose of religion from a sociological point of view is to keep the "poor and huddled masses" from rioting by promising it will all be better in the next life.

This isn't a critique of the "Golden Rule" but of the methods used by religion to control its followers and ensure those who "deserve" power stay in power.

Does anyone need "religion" to know that hurting people is wrong, stealing is wrong, murder, rape, are wrong?

OH, actually, many religions blame women for the unleashing of evil upon the world, Eve, Pandora, Angrboda, these gave religions permission to control women and thus keep their evil at bay.

But that isn't what Marx meant by that phrase.

 

[Coyote]

Marx was right. Karl, not Groucho,
Religion is, in fact, the "opiate of the masses."

The sole purpose of religion from a sociological point of view is to keep the "poor and huddled masses" from rioting by promising it will all be better in the next life.

This isn't a critique of the "Golden Rule" but of the methods used by religion to control its followers and ensure those who "deserve" power stay in power.

Does anyone need "religion" to know that hurting people is wrong, stealing is wrong, murder, rape, are wrong?

OH, actually, many religions blame women for the unleashing of evil upon the world, Eve, Pandora, Angrboda, these gave religions permission to control women and thus keep their evil at bay.

Well...I have an issue with most religions and the role they have for women, some worse than others.

One view of religion is in maintaining a social order ... and, originally Christianity and Islam both had their roots in oppressed, marginalized and poor populations. They also emphasized things like helping the poor, taking care of widows and orphans. Clearly there must have been a need there that secular authorities at the time were not fulfilling.

The other view though, is simply the idea that there is something larger than us, that some unites all life on this planet in one beautiful web. A creator that didn't follow a literal path of 7 days etc....or that is even identifiable as a being - but that set in place that first spark of life and consciousness. I view it as The Mysteries or The Divine it's not concerned with rules and social behavior...imo.

 

[Meriweather]

Not pouncing just mentioning the contradiction I see in the idea of an all loving god and the teachings of the bible.

What were the people doing? Do we approve of that kind of behavior? Is that the kind of behavior we wish to exemplify? If not, what would we do to correct it?

Being indignant that God was indignant over the poor behavior of those possessing wealth and power seems like an odd reaction.

But perhaps understandable in a society who looks down on judges who sentence a sex offender instead of dismissing the case? What about a society who elects District Attorneys who refuse to prosecute crimes and are more indignant about a criminal posting bail than he is about their crime? Is that what we are looking for in a loving God?

Do we all want God to to favor those who walk out of a store with $900 of merchandise without paying? The fact that the missing $900 will be passed on to honest people, some who are more poor than the looters, is what a loving society with a loving God should do?

 

[Meriweather]

Religion is meaningless if the very words of the book used as the word of the god of that religion is up for subjective interpretation.

Yet many seem to favor their understanding of the subjective English rather than understanding the original pictorial Hebrew. When the Bible attributes an emotion to God--or to anyone for that matter--we miss out on more than half the story when we have no understanding of what , it is vital to understand what mankind was doing that lent the spark to the emotion.

 

[Meriweather]

So tell me what would the correct word for wrath as it is meant in the 7 deadly sins?

Wrath in the seven deadly sins applies to a vengeful wrath, a wrath that leads to breaking Commandments instead of following them.

This does not mean that there should be no consequences for the person that caused wrath to erupt. Someone killing a child is a good example of this. Those who loved that child cannot help but being overcome with wrath. This is where stepping back and letting the justice system take on the case is more appropriate than forming a lynch mob comes into play.

 

[Meriweather]

Are you telling me that indignation is the actual deadly sin?

No. You were implying that God's wrath is a deadly sin. I have been explaining why it is not--and why the wrath of any individual has against an injustice is not a deadly sin.

 

[Meriweather]

Marx was right. Karl, not Groucho,
Religion is, in fact, the "opiate of the masses."

The sole purpose of religion from a sociological point of view is to keep the "poor and huddled masses" from rioting

Sounds like a description of today's big government, not religion.

 

[BreezeWood]

He is agnostic. If God had done anything to him, it follows that he would believe God is.

Perhaps the better question is, How does reading reading the Bible in modern English from a Western culture perspective, warp the meaning of what was actually presented by the original authors?

.

Perhaps the better question is, How does reading reading the Bible in modern English from a Western culture perspective, warp the meaning of what was actually presented by the original authors?

.
that could not happen had the original authors known a universal language necessary during their time for those in that era throughout the world to have all been informed the same of their religion for it to have been authentic - - for that time period irregardless the present.

proving to have been a mortal religion of their own making, as everyone knows who is not a deceiver.

the natural spoken religions are the ones that truly are spiritual when properly applied - as without deception.

 

[Dadoalex]

But that isn't what Marx meant by that phrase.

Interpret as you wish but, out here in the English speaking world:

"Abstract. Karl Marx famously describes religion as the “opiate of the masses.” Marx argues that religion is an ideological tool that legitimates and defends the interests of the dominant, wealthy classes in the population. It does so in part by placating the poor and exploited classes."

I use more explicit language but the meanings are the same.
Didja know that the "hereafter" evolved in a quest to placate the poor.
Judaism originally offered no heaven or hell. When you died, you were dead. But the poor said WHY? Why do we suffer while you are wealthy? SO....
They changed the story. "Did we say dead? What we meant was dead until the Lord comes to build his kingdom.
Then when Christianity came they promised IMMEDIATE entry into heaven. Full angelhood, no waiting.
Then Mohammad went to the mountain and came back with 40 virgins.
Then the Mormon guy, think his name was Smith, said join us and when you die you'll be almost like God.

It's a game to keep you in line while they get richer and more powerful and you're silly enough to think you have any say in the game.

 

[Dadoalex]

Well...I have an issue with most religions and the role they have for women, some worse than others.

One view of religion is in maintaining a social order ... and, originally Christianity and Islam both had their roots in oppressed, marginalized and poor populations. They also emphasized things like helping the poor, taking care of widows and orphans. Clearly there must have been a need there that secular authorities at the time were not fulfilling.

The other view though, is simply the idea that there is something larger than us, that some unites all life on this planet in one beautiful web. A creator that didn't follow a literal path of 7 days etc....or that is even identifiable as a being - but that set in place that first spark of life and consciousness. I view it as The Mysteries or The Divine it's not concerned with rules and social behavior...imo.

You're discussing spirituality which has nothing to do with religion.

Think about Religion as it operates and has operated across history.
You've said the "sacred words" but how does religion, in actual operation, stand against those words.
I think, overall, "religion" is one of the most horrible creations of humankind. It has murdered, tortured, and subjugated hundreds of millions since its first conception.

 

[Dadoalex]

Sounds like a description of today's big government, not religion.

You're assuming there's a difference.

The purpose of government is no different that the purpose of religion.

To control the ignorant masses.

 

[ding]

Interpret as you wish but, out here in the English speaking world:

"Abstract. Karl Marx famously describes religion as the “opiate of the masses.” Marx argues that religion is an ideological tool that legitimates and defends the interests of the dominant, wealthy classes in the population. It does so in part by placating the poor and exploited classes."

I use more explicit language but the meanings are the same.
Didja know that the "hereafter" evolved in a quest to placate the poor.
Judaism originally offered no heaven or hell. When you died, you were dead. But the poor said WHY? Why do we suffer while you are wealthy? SO....
They changed the story. "Did we say dead? What we meant was dead until the Lord comes to build his kingdom.
Then when Christianity came they promised IMMEDIATE entry into heaven. Full angelhood, no waiting.
Then Mohammad went to the mountain and came back with 40 virgins.
Then the Mormon guy, think his name was Smith, said join us and when you die you'll be almost like God.

It's a game to keep you in line while they get richer and more powerful and you're silly enough to think you have any say in the game.

Nope. That’s incorrect.

 

[skye]

I don't know if that is true. To believe that is to believe that everyone goes to Heaven regardless of they do or what they believe. It sounds like something that Satan would preach. Do whatever you like, it doesn't matter, you'll still go to Heaven. God commands us to obey his word. Satan rebelled against God's word and wants to rebel too.

I didn't express myself clearly.

Let me translate what I meant.

Originally I said: All roads lead to GOD.

I meant: All Religions lead to GOD.

That's what I firmly believe , at least.

 

[skye]

I didn't express myself clearly.

Let me translate what I meant.

Originally I said: All roads lead to GOD.

I meant: All Religions lead to GOD.

That's what I firmly believe , at least.

(but I must say, that at the end, everything leads to GOD the Eternal Father.)

 

[Natural Citizen]

I don't know if that is true. To believe that is to believe that everyone goes to Heaven regardless of they do or what they believe. It sounds like something that Satan would preach. Do whatever you like, it doesn't matter, you'll still go to Heaven. God commands us to obey his word. Satan rebelled against God's word and wants to rebel too.

Just making a placeholder here so I remember to touch on it tomorrow. Getting ready to start watching a movie at the moment.

Mental note: blaming God or Satan rather than taking responsibility for who we are. Cultural religion vs religious core, provincial nature of humanity, etc...

 

[Blues Man]

In the same critical manner?

Sure,

It's been a while since I read the Koran but I did look into Islam. Most of my info on Judaism wasn't from reading the Torah but from a friendship I had with a Rabbi and our long talks, he was a really interesting guy.

As you know I landed on Buddhism for a variety of reasons but I don't subscribe to the mystical stuff like reincarnation etc.

I don't know why you think other Abrahamic religions are so different from Christianity, you all worship the same god after all.

 

[Blues Man]

Yet many seem to favor their understanding of the subjective English rather than understanding the original pictorial Hebrew. When the Bible attributes an emotion to God--or to anyone for that matter--we miss out on more than half the story when we have no understanding of what , it is vital to understand what mankind was doing that lent the spark to the emotion.

It's because that's what they grew up with.

And mankind wasn't really doing anything different a couple thousand years ago than it is doing today

 

[Blues Man]

Wrath in the seven deadly sins applies to a vengeful wrath, a wrath that leads to breaking Commandments instead of following them.

This does not mean that there should be no consequences for the person that caused wrath to erupt. Someone killing a child is a good example of this. Those who loved that child cannot help but being overcome with wrath. This is where stepping back and letting the justice system take on the case is more appropriate than forming a lynch mob comes into play.

I never said anything about consequences but the wrath of the god of the bible was vengeful.

If wiping people out isn't vengeful I don't know what is.

 

[Blues Man]

No. You were implying that God's wrath is a deadly sin. I have been explaining why it is not--and why the wrath of any individual has against an injustice is not a deadly sin.

I don't know what definition of wrath you are using

but by definition wrath is vindictive and vengeful

Definition of WRATH

strong vengeful anger or indignation; retributory punishment for an offense or a crime : divine chastisement… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

 

[Colin norris]

(but I must say, that at the end, everything leads to GOD the Eternal Father.)

Really?
I'll bet it doesn't. The sun will rise in the West before you ever see a God