"..Marriage has always been between a man and a woman."

[GISMYS]

A"minister" living as a homosexual will not be in heaven.

You're not in any stretch of the imagination at liberty to make that decision.

Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, 10 or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. 1 corinthians 6:9

GOD'S PLAN FOR MAN= ‘God made them male and female’ from the beginning of creation. 7 ‘This explains why a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, 8 and the two are united into one.’ Since they are no longer two but one, 9 let no one split apart what God has joined together.” Mark 10:7

 

[KevinWestern]

Jesus did not Condone Sin... You know this... Go forth and Sin no more... Adultery and Homosexuality are Sins... Nowhere in the Bible did Jesus change that Fact.
.

My point was, if a gay minister was more effective at teaching people to love one another that should - in my view - hold more precedence over the fact "he is gay".

That's your Opinion and it does not square with the Gospel.

The Homosexuality is a Sin and Abomination EVERYWHERE it is mentioned in the Bible... It is spoken more Harshly against in Jewish Moral Law than Beastiality is.

Willfully Sinning is not what "Christians" are called to do.

Christ was Clear about this.



peace...

But again, if a gay pastor converts 10x more people into Christ followers than his straight counterpart, and is much more effective at teaching a message of love, you'd still choose the straight guy?

 

[GISMYS]

My point was, if a gay minister was more effective at teaching people to love one another that should - in my view - hold more precedence over the fact "he is gay".

That's your Opinion and it does not square with the Gospel.

The Homosexuality is a Sin and Abomination EVERYWHERE it is mentioned in the Bible... It is spoken more Harshly against in Jewish Moral Law than Beastiality is.

Willfully Sinning is not what "Christians" are called to do.

Christ was Clear about this.



peace...

But again, if a gay pastor converts 10x more people into Christ followers than his straight counterpart, and is much more effective at teaching a message of love, you'd still choose the straight guy?

THIEVES,MURDERERS, LIARS 'perverts may at times say and do something good but do you want them to try to lead and teach others about GOD????

 

[mal]

My point was, if a gay minister was more effective at teaching people to love one another that should - in my view - hold more precedence over the fact "he is gay".

That's your Opinion and it does not square with the Gospel.

The Homosexuality is a Sin and Abomination EVERYWHERE it is mentioned in the Bible... It is spoken more Harshly against in Jewish Moral Law than Beastiality is.

Willfully Sinning is not what "Christians" are called to do.

Christ was Clear about this.



peace...

But again, if a gay pastor converts 10x more people into Christ followers than his straight counterpart, and is much more effective at teaching a message of love, you'd still choose the straight guy?

If he Acknowledges his own Sin and works to not Engage in the Sin of Homosexuality... Then yes.

Do you agree that Christians are Compelled ot view Homosexuality as Sin and Abomination?



peace...

 

[GISMYS]

GOD'S WORD ON THE ABOMINATION OF SEXUAL PERVERSION==God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. 25 They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen. 26 That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. 27 And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.

28 Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done. 29 Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarreling, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. 30 They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They invent new ways of sinning, and they disobey their parents. 31 They refuse to understand, break their promises, are heartless, and have no mercy. 32 They know God’s justice requires that those who do these things deserve to die, yet they do them anyway. Worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too.
Romans 1:24-32

 

[Howey]

Jesus did not Condone Sin... You know this... Go forth and Sin no more... Adultery and Homosexuality are Sins... Nowhere in the Bible did Jesus change that Fact.



peace...

The Bible never mentioned homosexuality until revisions during the Victorian era and later in the mid 20th century. Until then the verses used today dealt with bullying, rape and other issues.

Hence, the Bible should be used as a teaching tool, not as a strict regimen.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The 're-defining marriage' argument against same sex marriage has no merit whatsoever, because it pre-supposes that all things are satisfactory as they are currently defined,

which of course is nonsensical.

Conservatives certainly don't mind arguing for 're-defining' the legal status of a fetus.

 

[GISMYS]

Jesus did not Condone Sin... You know this... Go forth and Sin no more... Adultery and Homosexuality are Sins... Nowhere in the Bible did Jesus change that Fact.



peace...

The Bible never mentioned homosexuality until revisions during the Victorian era and later in the mid 20th century. Until then the verses used today dealt with bullying, rape and other issues.

Hence, the Bible should be used as a teaching tool, not as a strict regimen.

God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. 25 They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen. 26 That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. 27 And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.

28 Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done. 29 Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarreling, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. 30 They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They invent new ways of sinning, and they disobey their parents. 31 They refuse to understand, break their promises, are heartless, and have no mercy. 32 They know God’s justice requires that those who do these things deserve to die, yet they do them anyway. Worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too.
romans 1:24-32

 

[KevinWestern]

If he Acknowledges his own Sin and works to not Engage in the Sin of Homosexuality... Then yes.

Do you agree that Christians are Compelled ot view Homosexuality as Sin and Abomination?



peace...

Personally, no. But let me finish.

Given the way the Bible ended up (there were revisions, interpretations that occurred during a different time and place long after the death of Christ), and given the strict structure of many religious institutions, I can rationally understand why a Christian might be compelled to think that.

 

[GISMYS]

If he Acknowledges his own Sin and works to not Engage in the Sin of Homosexuality... Then yes.

Do you agree that Christians are Compelled ot view Homosexuality as Sin and Abomination?



peace...

Personally, no. But let me finish.

Given the way the Bible ended up (there were revisions, interpretations that occurred during a different time and place long after the death of Christ), and given the strict structure of many religious institutions, I can rationally understand why a Christian might be compelled to think that.

HOW FOOLISH to allow satan to blind you and use you as his fool and tool
as you fall into a even worse sin of denying the TRUTH OF GOD'S WORD!

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Jesus did not Condone Sin... You know this... Go forth and Sin no more... Adultery and Homosexuality are Sins... Nowhere in the Bible did Jesus change that Fact.
.

My point was, if a gay minister was more effective at teaching people to love one another that should - in my view - hold more precedence over the fact "he is gay".

A"minister" living as a homosexual will not be in heaven.

EXACTLY where does your god say that?

 

[GISMYS]

My point was, if a gay minister was more effective at teaching people to love one another that should - in my view - hold more precedence over the fact "he is gay".

A"minister" living as a homosexual will not be in heaven.

EXACTLY where does your god say that?

Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, 10 or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God.1 Corinthians 6:9

 

[NYcarbineer]

GOD'S WORD ON THE ABOMINATION OF SEXUAL PERVERSION==God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. 25 They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen. 26 That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. 27 And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.

28 Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done. 29 Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarreling, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. 30 They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They invent new ways of sinning, and they disobey their parents. 31 They refuse to understand, break their promises, are heartless, and have no mercy. 32 They know God’s justice requires that those who do these things deserve to die, yet they do them anyway. Worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too.
Romans 1:24-32

That passage teaches that disobeying one's parents should be a capital crime. Do you support that,

or are you just another selective believer in the Bible?

 

[KevinWestern]

HOW FOOLISH to allow satan to blind you and use you as his fool and tool
as you fall into a even worse sin of denying the TRUTH OF GOD'S WORD!

If that's what you think and believe, so be it.

 

[Flopper]

The Cross at the end of the Dishonest Meme is the best...

Why do Homosexuals go to places that don't want them?...

If a Church said what I did and Believed in was an Abomination and Sin I would not attend that Church or Respect their Gospel.

The only Reason the Gays are there is to Change the Faith.

They don't want to be Christians... They want Christians to not be Christians.

What a Sad place we've come to in this Society.



peace...

Since homosexuality is a sin, what better place for homosexuals than a church.

Because they are not there to Repent their Sin and Abomination and be part of the Church... They are there to Demand the Church stop saying that it is and Ignore their Doctrine and Faith in favor of the Gays.



peace...

If that's the case, then how about a sign on the church door.
This is a Christian Church. Homosexuals not welcome.

 

[Flopper]

those values came directly from the Bible....gosh what'll we do now...get rid of them....?

since gay defenders avoid religion they should also avoid the use of the term 'marriage'...since marriage and religion have been interlinked for eons...

since when does a whole working-well together civilization need to change their belief system to accomodate a strident minority...?
toleration is one thing but forced acceptance is another...

should we next accomodate Islam and allow them to string up gays...?

Marriage is not solely a religious institution. It's a civil institution and it is that civil institution that courts are concerned. As a civil institution, it dates back to the ancient Romans and Greeks.

Although the holiness of marriage was recognized early on in Christianity, the actual marriage as a ceremony and a sacrament within the church did not take place until the 12th century. Ancient Jewish weddings never involved a wedding ceremony like we see today. Most marriages in the world were, until very recently, arranged Marriages, for business purposes not love or even procreation. For many centuries, religion played little or no part in marriage. Basically, the history of marriage is rooted in a legal marriage contract rather a religion ceremony.

which is exactly why marriage should be a reflection of The People's vote and values not a court ruling...different societies have accomodated different types of marriage throughout history.....

so are all types of marriage now considered a 'right' in this country....?

Top 10 Different types of Marriages - List Dose

The change under consideration is to the laws that govern civil contracts of marriage, not religious.

 

[g5000]

In the Bible, marriage was between one man, a woman, and hundreds of concubines.

In America, for a long time marriage was between one man and one woman of the same race.

Mankind has redefined marriage many times.

Your church or synagogue or mosque or temple can have its own definition of marriage. What some people can't seem to get through their prehistoric skulls is that is not what is at issue here. This has absolutely nothing to do with what your religion says marriage is.

This is about the State. Those people designated by the state (not by any church/synagogue/mosque/temple) as married have been demanding gifts from the government for about a century now, and the government obliged.

If the State decides you are married, then you get the gifts.

Those people who have been getting all these cash and prizes for a long time are upset at the idea of someone else getting the exact same cash and prizes. They actually have this bizarro idea in their heads that if someone else gets the exact same cash and prizes, those people are asking for SPECIAL favors from the government!

 

[Howey]

Jesus did not Condone Sin... You know this... Go forth and Sin no more... Adultery and Homosexuality are Sins... Nowhere in the Bible did Jesus change that Fact.



peace...

The Bible never mentioned homosexuality until revisions during the Victorian era and later in the mid 20th century. Until then the verses used today dealt with bullying, rape and other issues.

Hence, the Bible should be used as a teaching tool, not as a strict regimen.

God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. 25 They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen. 26 That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. 27 And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.

28 Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done. 29 Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarreling, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. 30 They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They invent new ways of sinning, and they disobey their parents. 31 They refuse to understand, break their promises, are heartless, and have no mercy. 32 They know God’s justice requires that those who do these things deserve to die, yet they do them anyway. Worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too.
romans 1:24-32

Once again...that's a modern, albeit archaic, translation of the scripture intended to pursue a certain agenda.

 

[Flopper]

This is about the method used to achieve a desired result. There is no compelling reason to make up a right and use the courts to force states to modify the marriage contract to allow for same sex marriage if the State does not want to.

The constitutional argument for same sex marriage may not hinge on rights but rather the equal protection clause in the 14th amendment. However, whether the advocates for same sex marriage win may depend more on the weakness of the argument of the opposition than their own argument. It can be very difficult to come up with a legal argument against same-sex marriage without relying upon religious doctrine which is inadmissible.

it shouldn't be in the courts at all. Equal protection does not apply as marriage between opposite sex and same sex couples is not equal. This is an issue for the state legislatures to figure out, as the constitution is neutral on the topic.

Although a strong argument can be made for the applicability of the equal protection clause, the due process clause may be the shortest path to legalized gay marriage.

The Supreme Court has included a series of guarantees regarding marriage. Most importantly, in Loving v. Virginia (1967) the Court held that states could not ban interracial marriage since "the freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men." To "deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as racial classifications,..." So if a state can not ban interracial marriage, how can it ban gay marriage?

The Gay Marriage Debate and the Due Process Clause

 

[GISMYS]

The constitutional argument for same sex marriage may not hinge on rights but rather the equal protection clause in the 14th amendment. However, whether the advocates for same sex marriage win may depend more on the weakness of the argument of the opposition than their own argument. It can be very difficult to come up with a legal argument against same-sex marriage without relying upon religious doctrine which is inadmissible.

it shouldn't be in the courts at all. Equal protection does not apply as marriage between opposite sex and same sex couples is not equal. This is an issue for the state legislatures to figure out, as the constitution is neutral on the topic.

Although a strong argument can be made for the applicability of the equal protection clause, the due process clause may be the shortest path to legalized gay marriage.

The Supreme Court has included a series of guarantees regarding marriage. Most importantly, in Loving v. Virginia (1967) the Court held that states could not ban interracial marriage since "the freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men." To "deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as racial classifications,..." So if a state can not ban interracial marriage, how can it ban gay marriage?

The Gay Marriage Debate and the Due Process Clause

So if a state can not ban interracial marriage, how can it ban gay marriage,multi partner marrage,brother sister marrage, child marrage,marrage to animals?????????