Mass shooting: At Least 11 Shot At Gilroy Garlic Festival

[pismoe]

the small population [of Switzerland] in comparison to ours makes the argument invalid..IMO.

What?

Grasping at straws, or what is it? It's municipalities / towns / districts, states, and the federal government sitting atop just like in the U.S. Population size has nothing whatsoever to do with, say, per capita murder rates or per capita gun ownership. And why doesn't China with a bit more by way of population have a murder rate far in excess of that of the U.S.? Really, help me out here, for this doesn't even begin to make sense.

To the rescue...the Swiss solutions, as it were, so not scale up. Again, we have discussed before..because the cultures are different..the same goes for China..or anywhere, really..the US is unique in it's tolerance and even its approval, of violent solutions.

Population DOES have a lot to do with the implementation of law..and the effectiveness of introducing new concepts. As you pointed out to me, America has a number of diverse cultures...while the Swiss are homogeneous, to a large extent.

i think that applying 'per capita' stats is a trap..in this discussion...since it is the cultural influence that plays the largest role.

---------------------------------------------- the 'swiss' are stupid . One of the 'swiss' claims to fame has been that they have never been invaded due to both mountainous Geography and they were all Milita and were armed since ealy times EEFlee. -------------- 'swiss are stupid' .

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Interesting..I'd not refer to the constitution as a 'moral' document...an ethical one..perhaps. Albeit flawed in that respect..after all it codified slavery for the purpose of representation in a govt. that the slaves had no say in--hardly the correct ethical stance.

I'd call the Constitution our bedrock legal framework--and laws change..as cultures do..so do morals and ethics

So you separate ethics from morality? The definition of ethic is:

"Definition of ethic

1 ethics plural in form but singular or plural in construction : the discipline dealing with what is good and bad and with moral duty and obligation

2a : a set of moral principles : a theory or system of moral value"

Definition of ETHIC

You see, language and definitions are part of our language which is how we communicate and connect with each other. When you redefine long held language definitions, morals and ethics progressively or through sheer ignorance, depending on current wants and desires, a society cannot survive.

Totally agree...Some philosophers make a distinction between morals and ethics. But many people use the terms morals and ethics interchangeably when talking about personal beliefs, actions, or principles. For example, it’s common to say, “My morals prevent me from cheating.” It’s also common to use ethics in this sentence instead.

However--there is a difference...basically, Morals are an internal code of conduct and belief, while ethics are an external one

Ethics vs Morals - Difference and Comparison | Diffen

"Ethics and morals relate to “right” and “wrong” conduct. While they are sometimes used interchangeably, they are different: ethics refer to rules provided by an external source, e.g., codes of conduct in workplaces or principles in religions. Morals refer to an individual’s own principles regarding right and wrong."

So, as you see, I've redefined nothing--just applied the term in what I felt was a correct manner.

I hope this clears up any confusion you might have over my usage of language.

 

[Leo123]

Seems like I regularly read news about women accidentally shooting themselves or children.

So...Because some idiot women shoot themselves and/or their children that somehow, in your mind, rationalizes taking guns from everyone else? Geez, you must think women are fucking dumb.

 

[Brain357]

Seems like I regularly read news about women accidentally shooting themselves or children.

So...Because some idiot women shoot themselves and/or their children that somehow, in your mind, rationalizes taking guns from everyone else? Geez, you must think women are fucking dumb.

It proves it isn’t very good protection.

 

[pismoe]

OK for all of the anti gun nut lefttards out there, answer this question. A good portion of households in Switzerland have an evil military assault rifle stashed in a closet so where are the waves of gun violence and mass shootings? If it's the guns as you say then the problem should exist there but if it's people and not guns it's long past time for you to shut your stupid yaps because you don't have brains enough to be preaching to anyone about anything. In fact you should stay away from the voting booth altogether too.

Are you referring to this: Mandatory conscription is actually extremely popular in Switzerland, with 73 percent of Swiss citizens voting against a referendum to abolish the practice. After their military service, the Swiss are kept in reserve until age 30–34, if they were an officer — during which time they must keep their service weapon.

So having ex military officers have guns is the same as whacked out gun nuts & crazies arming themselves to the teeth?

------------------------------------- ex military officers , big fecking deal as I say that with as much disdain as possible. We gotta buncha them in 'gabby giffords' gun control group trying to disarm Americans . Sounds like you worship uniforms , special hats and official authority . That's an unAmerican and Servile attitude but I notice that its a common attitude of younger than ME people . Musta been your poor schooling , cartoons and or parents RDave .

 

[Leo123]

Interesting..I'd not refer to the constitution as a 'moral' document...an ethical one..perhaps. Albeit flawed in that respect..after all it codified slavery for the purpose of representation in a govt. that the slaves had no say in--hardly the correct ethical stance.

I'd call the Constitution our bedrock legal framework--and laws change..as cultures do..so do morals and ethics

So you separate ethics from morality? The definition of ethic is:

"Definition of ethic

1 ethics plural in form but singular or plural in construction : the discipline dealing with what is good and bad and with moral duty and obligation

2a : a set of moral principles : a theory or system of moral value"

Definition of ETHIC

You see, language and definitions are part of our language which is how we communicate and connect with each other. When you redefine long held language definitions, morals and ethics progressively or through sheer ignorance, depending on current wants and desires, a society cannot survive.

Totally agree...Some philosophers make a distinction between morals and ethics. But many people use the terms morals and ethics interchangeably when talking about personal beliefs, actions, or principles. For example, it’s common to say, “My morals prevent me from cheating.” It’s also common to use ethics in this sentence instead.

However--there is a difference...basically, Morals are an internal code of conduct and belief, while ethics are an external one

Ethics vs Morals - Difference and Comparison | Diffen

"Ethics and morals relate to “right” and “wrong” conduct. While they are sometimes used interchangeably, they are different: ethics refer to rules provided by an external source, e.g., codes of conduct in workplaces or principles in religions. Morals refer to an individual’s own principles regarding right and wrong."

So, as you see, I've redefined nothing--just applied the term in what I felt was a correct manner.

I hope this clears up any confusion you might have over my usage of language.

While it is undoubtedly true that words can change over time, the push by certain political factions to completely change the definitions set forth in our Constitution to me, is NOT a natural 'grass roots' development. A society, IMO, needs bedrock ethics and morals in order to keep that society viable. Once bits of that bedrock are removed on a regular basis, that society will crumble and be vulnerable to the latest blowhard tyrannical system.

 

[iceberg]

Awwww...you're thinking of me......

So, is it true you're so scared you carry a sidearm while grocery shopping?

I actually rarely carry. I have my CCW, and carry when I think I should....fear has nothing to do with it. I am not afraid of a car crash, but I wear a seat belt, I watch both ways before I cross the street and manage to do so without a hint of fear...... Fear really has nothing to do with carrying a gun. It is merely a tool in case a specific situation happens. When those situations do happen, and they do all across the country, rape, robbery and murder....someone who has a legal gun on their hip can handle it.......someone without is at the mercy of the criminal.

Having the option is great. I have had times where people knock on the door late at night, and knowing I have a weapon in case they are criminals is as reasuring as having a fire extingquisher in case the dryer starts on fire.

Americans use their legal guns at home and in public 1.1 million times a year....according to the Centers for Disease Control research. That means those people would have been victims...of rape, robbery or murder...but are alive, safe, and not scared for life...because they had a gun to stop the attack.

You....you would prefer that those women be raped, those people are brutally beaten and robbed....and they are murdered, and their families should lose them to a criminal..

That is your choice...I prefer the other choice..that the criminal is stopped.

That’s a good question. I’d say by definition classic liberals and conservatives both of whom support individual freedoms support less gun control while big government progressives fight for more gun control. You will find people all over the “Left” that supports gun rights, but Ideologically speaking progressives would be the group pushing for government regulation. Although I’d argue that most people fall all over the spectrum depending on the issue

then in this case i'm speaking to the liberals i have seen that when you try to tell them functionally there is no difference between the AR-15 and a browning longtrac semi-automatic, they refuse to go "wow, i misunderstood that weapon" and instead say "then semi-automatics needs to go also".

i have *never* heard someone go "wow, i was wrong about that rifle" and to a man/woman/child i've discussed this with, the more they learn the less they want to know and the more they want to control. i don't doubt there are those on the left who are NOT like this, i've just not met one in conversation yet.

I think a lot of people are scared, frustrated, and heartbroken from the horrendous gun violence that happens in this country and they just want to do something to try and limit the carnage. Regulating guns is something g that makes sense to them so that’s what they push because guns scare them. Others feel protected by them and want to defend their rights to carry. It’s a very heated and emotional debate which needs more understanding and compassion like most political issues

A disgruntled employee just killed two people in a Walmart in Mississippi. What happened to the days of going on FaceBook and saying filthy things about your ex-supervisor who just fired you? Now they have to take a gun and kill people?

24/7 news cycle and glorification of the killers...

Not so sure about that. I really doubt if this guy wanted fame as much as payback, for whatever slight he had gotten at work. Now see, the way I look at this is, if the guy did not have a gun or did not know someone who would gladly let him borrow theirs, he would not have taken lives today. He would not have marched into that Walmart and stabbed those people or hit them with a brick or anything else. He might have put sugar in their gas tanks or started an ugly rumor about their sisters, but that would have been about it.
It is the easy, 24/7 access to guns that allows this to happen over and over and over. Does an incident like this inspire some other assholes? Sure, sometimes, but not for fame. Just as a great idea.

look around - people are violent all over the place, time and time again. guns are a tool, not the reason.

 

[Brain357]

Awwww...you're thinking of me......

So, is it true you're so scared you carry a sidearm while grocery shopping?

I actually rarely carry. I have my CCW, and carry when I think I should....fear has nothing to do with it. I am not afraid of a car crash, but I wear a seat belt, I watch both ways before I cross the street and manage to do so without a hint of fear...... Fear really has nothing to do with carrying a gun. It is merely a tool in case a specific situation happens. When those situations do happen, and they do all across the country, rape, robbery and murder....someone who has a legal gun on their hip can handle it.......someone without is at the mercy of the criminal.

Having the option is great. I have had times where people knock on the door late at night, and knowing I have a weapon in case they are criminals is as reasuring as having a fire extingquisher in case the dryer starts on fire.

Americans use their legal guns at home and in public 1.1 million times a year....according to the Centers for Disease Control research. That means those people would have been victims...of rape, robbery or murder...but are alive, safe, and not scared for life...because they had a gun to stop the attack.

You....you would prefer that those women be raped, those people are brutally beaten and robbed....and they are murdered, and their families should lose them to a criminal..

That is your choice...I prefer the other choice..that the criminal is stopped.

then in this case i'm speaking to the liberals i have seen that when you try to tell them functionally there is no difference between the AR-15 and a browning longtrac semi-automatic, they refuse to go "wow, i misunderstood that weapon" and instead say "then semi-automatics needs to go also".

i have *never* heard someone go "wow, i was wrong about that rifle" and to a man/woman/child i've discussed this with, the more they learn the less they want to know and the more they want to control. i don't doubt there are those on the left who are NOT like this, i've just not met one in conversation yet.

I think a lot of people are scared, frustrated, and heartbroken from the horrendous gun violence that happens in this country and they just want to do something to try and limit the carnage. Regulating guns is something g that makes sense to them so that’s what they push because guns scare them. Others feel protected by them and want to defend their rights to carry. It’s a very heated and emotional debate which needs more understanding and compassion like most political issues

A disgruntled employee just killed two people in a Walmart in Mississippi. What happened to the days of going on FaceBook and saying filthy things about your ex-supervisor who just fired you? Now they have to take a gun and kill people?

24/7 news cycle and glorification of the killers...

Not so sure about that. I really doubt if this guy wanted fame as much as payback, for whatever slight he had gotten at work. Now see, the way I look at this is, if the guy did not have a gun or did not know someone who would gladly let him borrow theirs, he would not have taken lives today. He would not have marched into that Walmart and stabbed those people or hit them with a brick or anything else. He might have put sugar in their gas tanks or started an ugly rumor about their sisters, but that would have been about it.
It is the easy, 24/7 access to guns that allows this to happen over and over and over. Does an incident like this inspire some other assholes? Sure, sometimes, but not for fame. Just as a great idea.

look around - people are violent all over the place, time and time again. guns are a tool, not the reason.

Violent people with less deadly tools kill fewer people.

 

[pismoe]

Are you kidding!!?? Let's see....Woman walking down the street, gets grabbed by a rapist.......she says..... as she picks up her cell-phone...."Wait!! I'm calling the cops to get advice!"

Only if she's a stupid MAGAt voter. Normal women have already done this, many times.

If you are a man, you may not know how often women are trained to protect ourselves. Workplaces, churches, mother's day out groups, old lady red hat groups, YMCA and on and on and on. They all have programs on occasion that teach us how to protect ourselves. Put on by your local friendly police departments.

A MAGA woman would have a GUN. Yes, and maybe she was taught how to use it by law enforcement. Generally women do not have the upper body strength of a man and a gun can give her a better chance.

Seems like I regularly read news about women accidentally shooting themselves or children.

------------------------------------------ the 'swiss' and the women you talk about are ALL Stupid Brian .

 

[Olde Europe]

Forget it, he's out of gas and he knows it. Push him aside and move on. Trying to reason with idiots like that is like pissing in the ocean and expecting the sea level to rise.

Eye is one of the most reasonable, respectable posters on here, and a pleasure to debate. Which is why that lapse is so surprising.

From you, I have yet to read anything to indicate you are anything other than a vulgar lout, and way overconfident in your knowledge, your intelligence, and your powers of persuasion.

 

[Brain357]

It is funny that the same people who say we must stop Iran from getting nukes are ok handing out mass killing weapons in our country.

 

[pismoe]

Seems like I regularly read news about women accidentally shooting themselves or children.

So...Because some idiot women shoot themselves and/or their children that somehow, in your mind, rationalizes taking guns from everyone else? Geez, you must think women are fucking dumb.

It proves it isn’t very good protection.

-------------------------------------------- for some stupid WOMEN according to You Brian .

 

[Leo123]

Seems like I regularly read news about women accidentally shooting themselves or children.

So...Because some idiot women shoot themselves and/or their children that somehow, in your mind, rationalizes taking guns from everyone else? Geez, you must think women are fucking dumb.

It proves it isn’t very good protection.

No it proves you think women are FUCKING DUMB!!! Why do you use a woman to make your stupid point anyway?

 

[westwall]

Awwww...you're thinking of me......

So, is it true you're so scared you carry a sidearm while grocery shopping?

I actually rarely carry. I have my CCW, and carry when I think I should....fear has nothing to do with it. I am not afraid of a car crash, but I wear a seat belt, I watch both ways before I cross the street and manage to do so without a hint of fear...... Fear really has nothing to do with carrying a gun. It is merely a tool in case a specific situation happens. When those situations do happen, and they do all across the country, rape, robbery and murder....someone who has a legal gun on their hip can handle it.......someone without is at the mercy of the criminal.

Having the option is great. I have had times where people knock on the door late at night, and knowing I have a weapon in case they are criminals is as reasuring as having a fire extingquisher in case the dryer starts on fire.

Americans use their legal guns at home and in public 1.1 million times a year....according to the Centers for Disease Control research. That means those people would have been victims...of rape, robbery or murder...but are alive, safe, and not scared for life...because they had a gun to stop the attack.

You....you would prefer that those women be raped, those people are brutally beaten and robbed....and they are murdered, and their families should lose them to a criminal..

That is your choice...I prefer the other choice..that the criminal is stopped.

I think a lot of people are scared, frustrated, and heartbroken from the horrendous gun violence that happens in this country and they just want to do something to try and limit the carnage. Regulating guns is something g that makes sense to them so that’s what they push because guns scare them. Others feel protected by them and want to defend their rights to carry. It’s a very heated and emotional debate which needs more understanding and compassion like most political issues

A disgruntled employee just killed two people in a Walmart in Mississippi. What happened to the days of going on FaceBook and saying filthy things about your ex-supervisor who just fired you? Now they have to take a gun and kill people?

24/7 news cycle and glorification of the killers...

Not so sure about that. I really doubt if this guy wanted fame as much as payback, for whatever slight he had gotten at work. Now see, the way I look at this is, if the guy did not have a gun or did not know someone who would gladly let him borrow theirs, he would not have taken lives today. He would not have marched into that Walmart and stabbed those people or hit them with a brick or anything else. He might have put sugar in their gas tanks or started an ugly rumor about their sisters, but that would have been about it.
It is the easy, 24/7 access to guns that allows this to happen over and over and over. Does an incident like this inspire some other assholes? Sure, sometimes, but not for fame. Just as a great idea.

look around - people are violent all over the place, time and time again. guns are a tool, not the reason.

Violent people with less deadly tools kill fewer people.

No, they merely change the tools they use.

 

[Brain357]

Seems like I regularly read news about women accidentally shooting themselves or children.

So...Because some idiot women shoot themselves and/or their children that somehow, in your mind, rationalizes taking guns from everyone else? Geez, you must think women are fucking dumb.

It proves it isn’t very good protection.

-------------------------------------------- for some stupid WOMEN according to You Brian .

For many men and women. Hundreds killed each year.

 

[Brain357]

So, is it true you're so scared you carry a sidearm while grocery shopping?

I actually rarely carry. I have my CCW, and carry when I think I should....fear has nothing to do with it. I am not afraid of a car crash, but I wear a seat belt, I watch both ways before I cross the street and manage to do so without a hint of fear...... Fear really has nothing to do with carrying a gun. It is merely a tool in case a specific situation happens. When those situations do happen, and they do all across the country, rape, robbery and murder....someone who has a legal gun on their hip can handle it.......someone without is at the mercy of the criminal.

Having the option is great. I have had times where people knock on the door late at night, and knowing I have a weapon in case they are criminals is as reasuring as having a fire extingquisher in case the dryer starts on fire.

Americans use their legal guns at home and in public 1.1 million times a year....according to the Centers for Disease Control research. That means those people would have been victims...of rape, robbery or murder...but are alive, safe, and not scared for life...because they had a gun to stop the attack.

You....you would prefer that those women be raped, those people are brutally beaten and robbed....and they are murdered, and their families should lose them to a criminal..

That is your choice...I prefer the other choice..that the criminal is stopped.

A disgruntled employee just killed two people in a Walmart in Mississippi. What happened to the days of going on FaceBook and saying filthy things about your ex-supervisor who just fired you? Now they have to take a gun and kill people?

24/7 news cycle and glorification of the killers...

Not so sure about that. I really doubt if this guy wanted fame as much as payback, for whatever slight he had gotten at work. Now see, the way I look at this is, if the guy did not have a gun or did not know someone who would gladly let him borrow theirs, he would not have taken lives today. He would not have marched into that Walmart and stabbed those people or hit them with a brick or anything else. He might have put sugar in their gas tanks or started an ugly rumor about their sisters, but that would have been about it.
It is the easy, 24/7 access to guns that allows this to happen over and over and over. Does an incident like this inspire some other assholes? Sure, sometimes, but not for fame. Just as a great idea.

look around - people are violent all over the place, time and time again. guns are a tool, not the reason.

Violent people with less deadly tools kill fewer people.

No, they merely change the tools they use.

I don’t see that in countries with strong gun control.

 

[pismoe]

It is funny that the same people who say we must stop Iran from getting nukes are ok handing out mass killing weapons in our country.

---------------------------------- 2 different issues Brian . I simply want 'irans' balls squeezed because of their taking hostages 40 some years ago . And TRUMP going after 'iran' due to nukes is only a good excuse for ME Brian .

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Forget it, he's out of gas and he knows it. Push him aside and move on. Trying to reason with idiots like that is like pissing in the ocean and expecting the sea level to rise.

Eye is one of the most reasonable, respectable posters on here, and a pleasure to debate. Which is why that lapse is so surprising.

From you, I have yet to read anything to indicate you are anything other than a vulgar lout, and way overconfident in your knowledge, your intelligence, and your powers of persuasion.

I 'm blaming it on the solar flare....LOL!

 

[westwall]

I actually rarely carry. I have my CCW, and carry when I think I should....fear has nothing to do with it. I am not afraid of a car crash, but I wear a seat belt, I watch both ways before I cross the street and manage to do so without a hint of fear...... Fear really has nothing to do with carrying a gun. It is merely a tool in case a specific situation happens. When those situations do happen, and they do all across the country, rape, robbery and murder....someone who has a legal gun on their hip can handle it.......someone without is at the mercy of the criminal.

Having the option is great. I have had times where people knock on the door late at night, and knowing I have a weapon in case they are criminals is as reasuring as having a fire extingquisher in case the dryer starts on fire.

Americans use their legal guns at home and in public 1.1 million times a year....according to the Centers for Disease Control research. That means those people would have been victims...of rape, robbery or murder...but are alive, safe, and not scared for life...because they had a gun to stop the attack.

You....you would prefer that those women be raped, those people are brutally beaten and robbed....and they are murdered, and their families should lose them to a criminal..

That is your choice...I prefer the other choice..that the criminal is stopped.

24/7 news cycle and glorification of the killers...

Not so sure about that. I really doubt if this guy wanted fame as much as payback, for whatever slight he had gotten at work. Now see, the way I look at this is, if the guy did not have a gun or did not know someone who would gladly let him borrow theirs, he would not have taken lives today. He would not have marched into that Walmart and stabbed those people or hit them with a brick or anything else. He might have put sugar in their gas tanks or started an ugly rumor about their sisters, but that would have been about it.
It is the easy, 24/7 access to guns that allows this to happen over and over and over. Does an incident like this inspire some other assholes? Sure, sometimes, but not for fame. Just as a great idea.

look around - people are violent all over the place, time and time again. guns are a tool, not the reason.

Violent people with less deadly tools kill fewer people.

No, they merely change the tools they use.

I don’t see that in countries with strong gun control.

That's because you are a one trick pony and a robot with no desire to educate yourself. And the truck attack below is only one of many.

Nice attack: What we know about the Bastille Day killings
Dozens of people were killed, including children, when a lorry ploughed into a large crowd watching a fireworks display in Nice to mark the Bastille Day holiday.

Attack in Nice: What we know

 

[pismoe]

Seems like I regularly read news about women accidentally shooting themselves or children.

So...Because some idiot women shoot themselves and/or their children that somehow, in your mind, rationalizes taking guns from everyone else? Geez, you must think women are fucking dumb.

It proves it isn’t very good protection.

-------------------------------------------- for some stupid WOMEN according to You Brian .

For many men and women. Hundreds killed each year.

------------------------------------------------ there are over 320 million people in the USA so your number of hundreds per year is NEGLIGABLE Brian .