Men in women's bathrooms

[ChrisL]

We don't care if you call us bigots. The phrase is tired, old and overused in so many wrong situations that it's "punch" has ceased to have any effect.

The problem you face is that men won't be allowed in the women's showers or restrooms. It's a fact. No matter what the man is thinking in his head or how delusional he is. The fact that he is experiencing delusions so severe that he fancies himself a woman despite what his eyes are telling him when he looks between his legs means that society should double-down on not letting especially these men in alone with women showering.

You have one GIANT hurdle you're facing: WOMEN behind doors marked WOMEN. They have rights too you know. You didn't? Well then you learn something new every day, don't you? Just ask Justice Ginsburg. She's going to side with women on this one. Likely Kennedy will too and possibly even Sotomayor. Breyer usually sucks up to whatever Kennedy tells him to do (what else could explain his vote to disenfranchise kids from either a mother or father for life ~Obergefell). So you're looking down the maw of possibly every Justice except the lesbian Kagan, because she is drunk with rainbow Koolaid, voting to protect women instead of delusional men.

Justice Ginsburg = WOMEN (already said she believes bathrooms should be segregated on record)

Justices Alito, Roberts & Thomas = WOMEN

Justice Kennedy = WOMEN (likely, because of the remorse he's undoubtedly feeling assigning unknown numbers of children to lives legally-deprived of either a mother or father)

Justice Breyer = WOMEN (whatever Kennedy does, see above)

Justice Sotomayer = UNKNOWN (she is catholic, a woman, but has also drunk the Rainbow Koolaid..could go either way)

Justice Kagan = MEN PRETENDING TO BE WOMEN. (Koolaid)

************

BELOW ..Slade vv you're going to lose this one. Start the grieving process now so you have a jump on it.

Your funny man, i'll give you that... You keep bringing up this women belong in the womens bathroom... Don't you understand that the argument is about "what a woman" is? One side is anatomy and birth certificates... The other side recognizes gender identity as a classification of Man/Woman. That is the whole argument. NOBODY is proposing to ever let Men in Womens restrooms. The definition of man and women is where the two sides differ.

I'm not vested enough to grieve on this one, I've stated many times that I think this is a complicated issue. I understand both sides of the argument and just want the discussion to produce a more educated acceptable and tolerant environment where the rights of men, women, children AND transgenders are all considered. I've also stated I didn't think the government should get involved and dictate bathroom policy.

You can ask Skylar and mdk if I know what the hub of the debate is about. I've been asking them to clearly define what a "transgender woman" is. And of the dozen or so requests, they have yet to answer. Instead they insert ad hominems and strawmen, hoping the question will go away.

So I'll ask you: what EXACTLY is a "transgender woman"? To establish your premise, it's incumbent upon you to convince people that a man pretending to be a women "is actually a woman".

Go.

That is a great question and the heart of the debate. I would seek input from the transgender community as to what they propose as this discussion revolves around their lifestyle. They should consider the fears and anxieties that surround men, women, and children and make a common sense proposal with everybody's concerns in mind. Im just an advocate for tolerance and equality. This debate doesn't have a direct effect on me so ultimately it should be decided between the transgender community and those that feel like their rights or privacy is being infringed.

From my limited experience and exposure to the issue, i'd suggest that for somebody to be considered a transgender man or women they would have had to gone through some form or therapy or counseling that addresses the underlying issues and through that process it was decided that transition is the best option for their mental health. They should be living the transitioned lifestyle, which means they take on the opposite sexes appearance, both in physical appearance and in dress. If there is controversy surrounding somebodies use of a facility and police get involved, there can be verification from the persons doctor that the above steps have been taken to give credibility to the "gender identity".

These are off the top of my head ideas, but I think its start to providing a structured system that addresses both parties concerns and solves the issue of a man saying "I feel like a woman today so I'll use the woman's restroom"

Sounds like you have a couple of pretty good ideas. The real issue for transsexuals in regard to restrooms is having facilities available that they can use safely. A man who is feminine or a female who is masculine in their appearance is not going fee comfortable in either facility regardless of the law. I believe the answer is more unisex restrooms that serve not only transsexuals but many people who're uncomfortable in public restrooms for any of a number of reasons.

I personally think Obama is going to far with this. Change needs to come gradually. Yes, Americans need to become more tolerant in what they believe about men and women because science is utterly destroying the old stereotypes. Males are not necessary masculine and females are not necessarily feminine. Roles that society assigns to a person based on their sex simply doesn't fit a large percent of the population today. As humans we want to classify people and attach behavior patterns to those classifications. It makes life easier and more secure. However, mother nature doesn't see things that way. She loves variations and is always throwing use curve balls.

A "large" percent? No a very small and insignificant percent.

 

[ChrisL]

"Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group,” the authors wrote.

The study, McHugh wrote in his op-ed, found that “beginning about 10 years after having the surgery, the transgendered began to experience increasing mental difficulties. Most shockingly, their suicide mortality rose almost 20-fold above the comparable nontransgender population."

McHugh says that Johns Hopkins "launched a study in the 1970s comparing the outcomes of transgendered people who had the surgery with the outcomes of those who did not."

"Most of the surgically treated patients described themselves as 'satisfied' by the results, but their subsequent psycho-social adjustments were no better than those who didn't have the surgery,” he explained.

You keep siting this HcHugh report that Skylar did a pretty good job of discrediting. Perhaps its time to find another credible source if you want consideration. But I don't think its necessary...

Like with homosexuals and like with all people, we are all different. Homosexuality can be a result of environmental influences and it is also a natural instinct for many. The causes for Transgender tendencies isn't a constant either, some with the proper treatment can be reprogrammed to the social norms, some kids can grow out of it... we should work on therapies and treatments that provide these individuals with the right kind of support. This does not include telling them they are sick and mentally ill in need of fixing.

People don't walk into a doctors office and say I feel like a woman today can you chop this thing off... It is a very intensive and expensive process that they go through. All areas of this process should be further explored and developed.

Again I come to the question... Why do you care so much to discredit what Transexuals claim to be their truth? Why do you care so much to label them as mentally ill? How does their transitioning effect your life? This seems to be more than just a bathroom issue for you.

McHugh was not discredited in any way. Lol. Your "theories" are not any valid than Dr. McHugh's or my own. Yes, when someone is sick, they need to know they are sick so that they can seek out the proper treatment. Feeding a delusion is the WORST thing you can do.

Why do you think our suicide rates are SO much more prevalent now than ever in the past? Because your "treatments" are working. Hmm. Interesting because the statistics would say NO.

I am posting on this topic because basically, I think you are a bunch of monsters. These people need therapy, not people encouraging them to surgically deform themselves.

 

[Silhouette]

From my limited experience and exposure to the issue, i'd suggest that for somebody to be considered a transgender man or women they would have had to gone through some form or therapy or counseling that addresses the underlying issues and through that process it was decided that transition is the best option for their mental health. They should be living the transitioned lifestyle, which means they take on the opposite sexes appearance, both in physical appearance and in dress. If there is controversy surrounding somebodies use of a facility and police get involved, there can be verification from the persons doctor that the above steps have been taken to give credibility to the "gender identity".

These are off the top of my head ideas...

OK, for purposes of legal clarity...

"transgender" is still a muddy term. We could call them "multilees" or "halflings" or ? which would describe more completely, openly and accurately what they really are after MDs agree to drug and or cut them up.

"transition". You mean from a man to a mutilated man? How long does "transition" take? How long and at what stages would women rape survivors be required to shower with them? Before or after the criminal MDs amputate their male genitals to "cure a mental illness"?

 

[Silhouette]

I personally think Obama is going to far with this. Change needs to come gradually. Yes, Americans need to become more tolerant in what they believe about men and women because science is utterly destroying the old stereotypes. Males are not necessary masculine and females are not necessarily feminine. Roles that society assigns to a person based on their sex simply doesn't fit a large percent of the population today.

What if change regarding this question ought not come AT ALL? Not everyone is of the opinion that change change change change is always a good thing. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

And here's another thing. Why not instead of attacking a person with delusions or utter rejection of their sex with a surgeon's knife, we just simply counsel them and their peers in school to allow a wide range of expression within their sex. You should be attacking rigid sterotypes, not patients!

And something most ironic of all...the people who hold the most rigid sterotypes of "what a man is" or "what a woman is" are transgenders themselves! Hello? "There's your sign". That's the key to their mental issues right there. Ever notice how ridiculous of a sterotype "trannies" try to portray when play-acting the other gender? I've seen a few of the pictures here. The gals who pretend they're men don't just go for the beer belly, man boobs and 5 O'clock shadow like most dudes have.. No. They go for the SUPER MUSCLED OUT BODY BUILDER look. The dudes who pretend they're women? Big makeup. Big hair. Slinky clothes, just everything overdone to the nth degree of their perception of the super-female sterotype.

I half think it's for the attention. The other half of me thinks they're just insane; such damaged goods from childhood. Either way the solution isn't drugging or surgery or forcing the rest of us to enable them as a matter of law. The solution is for the APA to stop threatening psychiatrists and counselors if they dare to suggest that the person is merely delusional and needs tons of therapy. The urge and the push from the LGBT cult APA (and from the doctors making $$ off this illegal practice) is to conform or be cast out. You want the root of the weed? There it is right there.

 

[Slade3200]

"Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group,” the authors wrote.

The study, McHugh wrote in his op-ed, found that “beginning about 10 years after having the surgery, the transgendered began to experience increasing mental difficulties. Most shockingly, their suicide mortality rose almost 20-fold above the comparable nontransgender population."

McHugh says that Johns Hopkins "launched a study in the 1970s comparing the outcomes of transgendered people who had the surgery with the outcomes of those who did not."

"Most of the surgically treated patients described themselves as 'satisfied' by the results, but their subsequent psycho-social adjustments were no better than those who didn't have the surgery,” he explained.

You keep siting this HcHugh report that Skylar did a pretty good job of discrediting. Perhaps its time to find another credible source if you want consideration. But I don't think its necessary...

Like with homosexuals and like with all people, we are all different. Homosexuality can be a result of environmental influences and it is also a natural instinct for many. The causes for Transgender tendencies isn't a constant either, some with the proper treatment can be reprogrammed to the social norms, some kids can grow out of it... we should work on therapies and treatments that provide these individuals with the right kind of support. This does not include telling them they are sick and mentally ill in need of fixing.

People don't walk into a doctors office and say I feel like a woman today can you chop this thing off... It is a very intensive and expensive process that they go through. All areas of this process should be further explored and developed.

Again I come to the question... Why do you care so much to discredit what Transexuals claim to be their truth? Why do you care so much to label them as mentally ill? How does their transitioning effect your life? This seems to be more than just a bathroom issue for you.

McHugh was not discredited in any way. Lol. Your "theories" are not any valid than Dr. McHugh's or my own. Yes, when someone is sick, they need to know they are sick so that they can seek out the proper treatment. Feeding a delusion is the WORST thing you can do.

Why do you think our suicide rates are SO much more prevalent now than ever in the past? Because your "treatments" are working. Hmm. Interesting because the statistics would say NO.

I am posting on this topic because basically, I think you are a bunch of monsters. These people need therapy, not people encouraging them to surgically deform themselves.

I don't know where you get this "encouragement" term. I think therapy first to help identify issues and work on coping mechanisms so they can feel good about who they are. Im not a doctor or a therapist, but ive heard many stories, in some cases therapy resolves issues and others not. Did you watch that video I posted twice yesterday?

 

[ChrisL]

We don't care if you call us bigots. The phrase is tired, old and overused in so many wrong situations that it's "punch" has ceased to have any effect.

The problem you face is that men won't be allowed in the women's showers or restrooms. It's a fact. No matter what the man is thinking in his head or how delusional he is. The fact that he is experiencing delusions so severe that he fancies himself a woman despite what his eyes are telling him when he looks between his legs means that society should double-down on not letting especially these men in alone with women showering.

You have one GIANT hurdle you're facing: WOMEN behind doors marked WOMEN. They have rights too you know. You didn't? Well then you learn something new every day, don't you? Just ask Justice Ginsburg. She's going to side with women on this one. Likely Kennedy will too and possibly even Sotomayor. Breyer usually sucks up to whatever Kennedy tells him to do (what else could explain his vote to disenfranchise kids from either a mother or father for life ~Obergefell). So you're looking down the maw of possibly every Justice except the lesbian Kagan, because she is drunk with rainbow Koolaid, voting to protect women instead of delusional men.

Justice Ginsburg = WOMEN (already said she believes bathrooms should be segregated on record)

Justices Alito, Roberts & Thomas = WOMEN

Justice Kennedy = WOMEN (likely, because of the remorse he's undoubtedly feeling assigning unknown numbers of children to lives legally-deprived of either a mother or father)

Justice Breyer = WOMEN (whatever Kennedy does, see above)

Justice Sotomayer = UNKNOWN (she is catholic, a woman, but has also drunk the Rainbow Koolaid..could go either way)

Justice Kagan = MEN PRETENDING TO BE WOMEN. (Koolaid)

************

BELOW ..Slade vv you're going to lose this one. Start the grieving process now so you have a jump on it.

Your funny man, i'll give you that... You keep bringing up this women belong in the womens bathroom... Don't you understand that the argument is about "what a woman" is? One side is anatomy and birth certificates... The other side recognizes gender identity as a classification of Man/Woman. That is the whole argument. NOBODY is proposing to ever let Men in Womens restrooms. The definition of man and women is where the two sides differ.

I'm not vested enough to grieve on this one, I've stated many times that I think this is a complicated issue. I understand both sides of the argument and just want the discussion to produce a more educated acceptable and tolerant environment where the rights of men, women, children AND transgenders are all considered. I've also stated I didn't think the government should get involved and dictate bathroom policy.

You can ask Skylar and mdk if I know what the hub of the debate is about. I've been asking them to clearly define what a "transgender woman" is. And of the dozen or so requests, they have yet to answer. Instead they insert ad hominems and strawmen, hoping the question will go away.

So I'll ask you: what EXACTLY is a "transgender woman"? To establish your premise, it's incumbent upon you to convince people that a man pretending to be a women "is actually a woman".

Go.

That is a great question and the heart of the debate. I would seek input from the transgender community as to what they propose as this discussion revolves around their lifestyle. They should consider the fears and anxieties that surround men, women, and children and make a common sense proposal with everybody's concerns in mind. Im just an advocate for tolerance and equality. This debate doesn't have a direct effect on me so ultimately it should be decided between the transgender community and those that feel like their rights or privacy is being infringed.

From my limited experience and exposure to the issue, i'd suggest that for somebody to be considered a transgender man or women they would have had to gone through some form or therapy or counseling that addresses the underlying issues and through that process it was decided that transition is the best option for their mental health. They should be living the transitioned lifestyle, which means they take on the opposite sexes appearance, both in physical appearance and in dress. If there is controversy surrounding somebodies use of a facility and police get involved, there can be verification from the persons doctor that the above steps have been taken to give credibility to the "gender identity".

These are off the top of my head ideas, but I think its start to providing a structured system that addresses both parties concerns and solves the issue of a man saying "I feel like a woman today so I'll use the woman's restroom"

Additionally schools would undergo a more extensive process, where the child would undergo a series of steps to qualify as a transitioned

"Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group,” the authors wrote.

The study, McHugh wrote in his op-ed, found that “beginning about 10 years after having the surgery, the transgendered began to experience increasing mental difficulties. Most shockingly, their suicide mortality rose almost 20-fold above the comparable nontransgender population."

McHugh says that Johns Hopkins "launched a study in the 1970s comparing the outcomes of transgendered people who had the surgery with the outcomes of those who did not."

"Most of the surgically treated patients described themselves as 'satisfied' by the results, but their subsequent psycho-social adjustments were no better than those who didn't have the surgery,” he explained.

You keep siting this HcHugh report that Skylar did a pretty good job of discrediting. Perhaps its time to find another credible source if you want consideration. But I don't think its necessary...

Like with homosexuals and like with all people, we are all different. Homosexuality can be a result of environmental influences and it is also a natural instinct for many. The causes for Transgender tendencies isn't a constant either, some with the proper treatment can be reprogrammed to the social norms, some kids can grow out of it... we should work on therapies and treatments that provide these individuals with the right kind of support. This does not include telling them they are sick and mentally ill in need of fixing.

People don't walk into a doctors office and say I feel like a woman today can you chop this thing off... It is a very intensive and expensive process that they go through. All areas of this process should be further explored and developed.

Again I come to the question... Why do you care so much to discredit what Transexuals claim to be their truth? Why do you care so much to label them as mentally ill? How does their transitioning effect your life? This seems to be more than just a bathroom issue for you.

McHugh was not discredited in any way. Lol. Your "theories" are not any valid than Dr. McHugh's or my own. Yes, when someone is sick, they need to know they are sick so that they can seek out the proper treatment. Feeding a delusion is the WORST thing you can do.

Why do you think our suicide rates are SO much more prevalent now than ever in the past? Because your "treatments" are working. Hmm. Interesting because the statistics would say NO.

I am posting on this topic because basically, I think you are a bunch of monsters. These people need therapy, not people encouraging them to surgically deform themselves.

I don't know where you get this "encouragement" term. I think therapy first to help identify issues and work on coping mechanisms so they can feel good about who they are. Im not a doctor or a therapist, but ive heard many stories, in some cases therapy resolves issues and others not. Did you watch that video I posted twice yesterday?

Nope. I don't have time to sit and watch a video! I have important postings to make and texting to do!

 

[Silhouette]

I don't know where you get this "encouragement" term. I think therapy first to help identify issues and work on coping mechanisms so they can feel good about who they are. Im not a doctor or a therapist, but ive heard many stories, in some cases therapy resolves issues and others not. Did you watch that video I posted twice yesterday?

Your logic fails in a legal arena. We try to rehabilitate pedophiles, serial killers, thieves etc. Some rehabilitate. Some don't. Indeed, many of them seem to be bad seeds or simply "born that way" (though environment is surely the cause, considering many of their backgrounds documented). If we aren't successful with pedophiles, does that mean we should then require schools to hire them because we want to help them normalize their own behaviors and delusionary thinking in their minds?

"Sorry kids. Mr. McFeely identifies as a man who should be allowed around children no matter what, so he's going to be the staff custodian now. Therapy didn't help him so now it's OUR legal responsibility for him to feel better about himself by allowing him around children again."

The failure of therapy isn't a mandate for society to change its laws, customs or practices to accommodate the insane's wishes to feel good about themselves or comfortable in their own skin. The many do not take the "hit" for the few.

BTW Slade, as good as a job you're trying to do to look impartial, it is clear from the way you write that no matter what, your agenda is to see to it that "sex change" happens. You refuse to entertain that all people involved in delusionary thinking are involved in delusionary thinking. You're still selling that "maybe in some cases men really are women". The old toe in the door technique; like any salesman knows. You're pimping for the Church of LGBT. Just admit it.

 

[Slade3200]

From my limited experience and exposure to the issue, i'd suggest that for somebody to be considered a transgender man or women they would have had to gone through some form or therapy or counseling that addresses the underlying issues and through that process it was decided that transition is the best option for their mental health. They should be living the transitioned lifestyle, which means they take on the opposite sexes appearance, both in physical appearance and in dress. If there is controversy surrounding somebodies use of a facility and police get involved, there can be verification from the persons doctor that the above steps have been taken to give credibility to the "gender identity".

These are off the top of my head ideas...

OK, for purposes of legal clarity...

"transgender" is still a muddy term. We could call them "multilees" or "halflings" or ? which would describe more completely, openly and accurately what they really are after MDs agree to drug and or cut them up.

"transition". You mean from a man to a mutilated man? How long does "transition" take? How long and at what stages would women rape survivors be required to shower with them? Before or after the criminal MDs amputate their male genitals to "cure a mental illness"?

If you don't want to be called a bigot then you can chose your words more wisely... multilees and halflings, cut them up are derogatory and unnecessary terms... Unless you intend to offend your opposition during debate, there is no point in talking like that... Would you say the same to a breast cancer victim who had a mastectomy?

Per your questions: My idea would be to break the "transition" into phases: 1. meet with doctor or therapist to discuss issues 2. If decided by doctor that transition is best move for mental health then they go through a period by living the lifestyle of opposite sex. 3. Drug therapy 4. Surgical procedure. Hopefully 3 and 4 can be avoided by effective methods in 1 and 2.

As for the shower rule... I really don't think transgenders desire to shower or get naked in public, especially if they have different anatomy. But that may be a consideration that is discussed. No showering or exposure if you have opposite anatomy as the labeled facility... Again the debate needs to be had between the Trans group and the ones that feel their presence violates their privacy. I don't know everything that Trans people are looking for and I don't know all the fears that women may have. Me personally I don't really care and think most of these things work themselves out without the need for laws to define it all. If I see a creeper in the bathroom, I just leave. There has been many of times that a homeless person, or a drunk person, a looney tune has been in the restroom... If they made me feel uncomfortable I just waited for them to leave. Not a big deal...

 

[Slade3200]

We don't care if you call us bigots. The phrase is tired, old and overused in so many wrong situations that it's "punch" has ceased to have any effect.

The problem you face is that men won't be allowed in the women's showers or restrooms. It's a fact. No matter what the man is thinking in his head or how delusional he is. The fact that he is experiencing delusions so severe that he fancies himself a woman despite what his eyes are telling him when he looks between his legs means that society should double-down on not letting especially these men in alone with women showering.

You have one GIANT hurdle you're facing: WOMEN behind doors marked WOMEN. They have rights too you know. You didn't? Well then you learn something new every day, don't you? Just ask Justice Ginsburg. She's going to side with women on this one. Likely Kennedy will too and possibly even Sotomayor. Breyer usually sucks up to whatever Kennedy tells him to do (what else could explain his vote to disenfranchise kids from either a mother or father for life ~Obergefell). So you're looking down the maw of possibly every Justice except the lesbian Kagan, because she is drunk with rainbow Koolaid, voting to protect women instead of delusional men.

Justice Ginsburg = WOMEN (already said she believes bathrooms should be segregated on record)

Justices Alito, Roberts & Thomas = WOMEN

Justice Kennedy = WOMEN (likely, because of the remorse he's undoubtedly feeling assigning unknown numbers of children to lives legally-deprived of either a mother or father)

Justice Breyer = WOMEN (whatever Kennedy does, see above)

Justice Sotomayer = UNKNOWN (she is catholic, a woman, but has also drunk the Rainbow Koolaid..could go either way)

Justice Kagan = MEN PRETENDING TO BE WOMEN. (Koolaid)

************

BELOW ..Slade vv you're going to lose this one. Start the grieving process now so you have a jump on it.

Your funny man, i'll give you that... You keep bringing up this women belong in the womens bathroom... Don't you understand that the argument is about "what a woman" is? One side is anatomy and birth certificates... The other side recognizes gender identity as a classification of Man/Woman. That is the whole argument. NOBODY is proposing to ever let Men in Womens restrooms. The definition of man and women is where the two sides differ.

I'm not vested enough to grieve on this one, I've stated many times that I think this is a complicated issue. I understand both sides of the argument and just want the discussion to produce a more educated acceptable and tolerant environment where the rights of men, women, children AND transgenders are all considered. I've also stated I didn't think the government should get involved and dictate bathroom policy.

You can ask Skylar and mdk if I know what the hub of the debate is about. I've been asking them to clearly define what a "transgender woman" is. And of the dozen or so requests, they have yet to answer. Instead they insert ad hominems and strawmen, hoping the question will go away.

So I'll ask you: what EXACTLY is a "transgender woman"? To establish your premise, it's incumbent upon you to convince people that a man pretending to be a women "is actually a woman".

Go.

That is a great question and the heart of the debate. I would seek input from the transgender community as to what they propose as this discussion revolves around their lifestyle. They should consider the fears and anxieties that surround men, women, and children and make a common sense proposal with everybody's concerns in mind. Im just an advocate for tolerance and equality. This debate doesn't have a direct effect on me so ultimately it should be decided between the transgender community and those that feel like their rights or privacy is being infringed.

From my limited experience and exposure to the issue, i'd suggest that for somebody to be considered a transgender man or women they would have had to gone through some form or therapy or counseling that addresses the underlying issues and through that process it was decided that transition is the best option for their mental health. They should be living the transitioned lifestyle, which means they take on the opposite sexes appearance, both in physical appearance and in dress. If there is controversy surrounding somebodies use of a facility and police get involved, there can be verification from the persons doctor that the above steps have been taken to give credibility to the "gender identity".

These are off the top of my head ideas, but I think its start to providing a structured system that addresses both parties concerns and solves the issue of a man saying "I feel like a woman today so I'll use the woman's restroom"

Additionally schools would undergo a more extensive process, where the child would undergo a series of steps to qualify as a transitioned

"Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group,” the authors wrote.

The study, McHugh wrote in his op-ed, found that “beginning about 10 years after having the surgery, the transgendered began to experience increasing mental difficulties. Most shockingly, their suicide mortality rose almost 20-fold above the comparable nontransgender population."

McHugh says that Johns Hopkins "launched a study in the 1970s comparing the outcomes of transgendered people who had the surgery with the outcomes of those who did not."

"Most of the surgically treated patients described themselves as 'satisfied' by the results, but their subsequent psycho-social adjustments were no better than those who didn't have the surgery,” he explained.

You keep siting this HcHugh report that Skylar did a pretty good job of discrediting. Perhaps its time to find another credible source if you want consideration. But I don't think its necessary...

Like with homosexuals and like with all people, we are all different. Homosexuality can be a result of environmental influences and it is also a natural instinct for many. The causes for Transgender tendencies isn't a constant either, some with the proper treatment can be reprogrammed to the social norms, some kids can grow out of it... we should work on therapies and treatments that provide these individuals with the right kind of support. This does not include telling them they are sick and mentally ill in need of fixing.

People don't walk into a doctors office and say I feel like a woman today can you chop this thing off... It is a very intensive and expensive process that they go through. All areas of this process should be further explored and developed.

Again I come to the question... Why do you care so much to discredit what Transexuals claim to be their truth? Why do you care so much to label them as mentally ill? How does their transitioning effect your life? This seems to be more than just a bathroom issue for you.

McHugh was not discredited in any way. Lol. Your "theories" are not any valid than Dr. McHugh's or my own. Yes, when someone is sick, they need to know they are sick so that they can seek out the proper treatment. Feeding a delusion is the WORST thing you can do.

Why do you think our suicide rates are SO much more prevalent now than ever in the past? Because your "treatments" are working. Hmm. Interesting because the statistics would say NO.

I am posting on this topic because basically, I think you are a bunch of monsters. These people need therapy, not people encouraging them to surgically deform themselves.

I don't know where you get this "encouragement" term. I think therapy first to help identify issues and work on coping mechanisms so they can feel good about who they are. Im not a doctor or a therapist, but ive heard many stories, in some cases therapy resolves issues and others not. Did you watch that video I posted twice yesterday?

Nope. I don't have time to sit and watch a video! I have important postings to make and texting to do!

yeah, totally... I think Dr McHughs has another article out... Spend your time just exploring things that support your argument and spend no time looking at the other side with an open mind. Brilliant approach.

 

[Silhouette]

he stands for Johns Hopkins you know..

 

[Silhouette]

OK, for purposes of legal clarity...

"transgender" is still a muddy term. We could call them "multilees" or "halflings" or ? which would describe more completely, openly and accurately what they really are after MDs agree to drug and or cut them up.

"transition". You mean from a man to a mutilated man? How long does "transition" take? How long and at what stages would women rape survivors be required to shower with them? Before or after the criminal MDs amputate their male genitals to "cure a mental illness"?

If you don't want to be called a bigot then you can chose your words more wisely... multilees and halflings, cut them up are derogatory and unnecessary terms... Unless you intend to offend your opposition during debate, there is no point in talking like that... Would you say the same to a breast cancer victim who had a mastectomy?

.

Like I said, you can call me a bigot until the cows come home. I'll wear it as a badge of sanity. Just because you don't like the fact that men can never be women and women can never be men, will never affect my saying they are halflings or mutilees. That is ,in fact, what they are.

A woman with breast cancer who had her breast removed to save her life from cancer is nothing like a man who had his HEALTHY, FUNCTIONAL genitals removed to play pretend. If a woman could simply get therapy to cure her breast cancer, no doctor would amputate that breast.

No drugging people with class #1 carcinogens. No amputating healthy limbs or organs, leaving them mutilated and/or disabled. None. Zero. FINAL.

 

[Slade3200]

I don't know where you get this "encouragement" term. I think therapy first to help identify issues and work on coping mechanisms so they can feel good about who they are. Im not a doctor or a therapist, but ive heard many stories, in some cases therapy resolves issues and others not. Did you watch that video I posted twice yesterday?

Your logic fails in a legal arena. We try to rehabilitate pedophiles, serial killers, thieves etc. Some rehabilitate. Some don't. Indeed, many of them seem to be bad seeds or simply "born that way" (though environment is surely the cause, considering many of their backgrounds documented). If we aren't successful with pedophiles, does that mean we should then require schools to hire them because we want to help them normalize their own behaviors and delusionary thinking in their minds?

"Sorry kids. Mr. McFeely identifies as a man who should be allowed around children no matter what, so he's going to be the staff custodian now. Therapy didn't help him so now it's OUR legal responsibility for him to feel better about himself by allowing him around children again."

The failure of therapy isn't a mandate for society to change its laws, customs or practices to accommodate the insane's wishes to feel good about themselves or comfortable in their own skin. The many do not take the "hit" for the few.

BTW Slade, as good as a job you're trying to do to look impartial, it is clear from the way you write that no matter what, your agenda is to see to it that "sex change" happens. You refuse to entertain that all people involved in delusionary thinking are involved in delusionary thinking. You're still selling that "maybe in some cases men really are women". The old toe in the door technique; like any salesman knows. You're pimping for the Church of LGBT. Just admit it.

It's pretty simple man... Who am I to call somebody delusional and tell them they can't do something to their own bodies?? Who are you to do that?? I sympathize with the pain they are going through, I hope we can find better ways to support them and help them love who they are... If a guy dressing up like a girl is the best solution we have right now to give them a little peace and happiness then who am I or who are you to deny them that??

Sure call me a pimp of the LBGT, i don't give a shit. My purpose is for people to be free and happy

 

[ChrisL]

We don't care if you call us bigots. The phrase is tired, old and overused in so many wrong situations that it's "punch" has ceased to have any effect.

The problem you face is that men won't be allowed in the women's showers or restrooms. It's a fact. No matter what the man is thinking in his head or how delusional he is. The fact that he is experiencing delusions so severe that he fancies himself a woman despite what his eyes are telling him when he looks between his legs means that society should double-down on not letting especially these men in alone with women showering.

You have one GIANT hurdle you're facing: WOMEN behind doors marked WOMEN. They have rights too you know. You didn't? Well then you learn something new every day, don't you? Just ask Justice Ginsburg. She's going to side with women on this one. Likely Kennedy will too and possibly even Sotomayor. Breyer usually sucks up to whatever Kennedy tells him to do (what else could explain his vote to disenfranchise kids from either a mother or father for life ~Obergefell). So you're looking down the maw of possibly every Justice except the lesbian Kagan, because she is drunk with rainbow Koolaid, voting to protect women instead of delusional men.

Justice Ginsburg = WOMEN (already said she believes bathrooms should be segregated on record)

Justices Alito, Roberts & Thomas = WOMEN

Justice Kennedy = WOMEN (likely, because of the remorse he's undoubtedly feeling assigning unknown numbers of children to lives legally-deprived of either a mother or father)

Justice Breyer = WOMEN (whatever Kennedy does, see above)

Justice Sotomayer = UNKNOWN (she is catholic, a woman, but has also drunk the Rainbow Koolaid..could go either way)

Justice Kagan = MEN PRETENDING TO BE WOMEN. (Koolaid)

************

BELOW ..Slade vv you're going to lose this one. Start the grieving process now so you have a jump on it.

Your funny man, i'll give you that... You keep bringing up this women belong in the womens bathroom... Don't you understand that the argument is about "what a woman" is? One side is anatomy and birth certificates... The other side recognizes gender identity as a classification of Man/Woman. That is the whole argument. NOBODY is proposing to ever let Men in Womens restrooms. The definition of man and women is where the two sides differ.

I'm not vested enough to grieve on this one, I've stated many times that I think this is a complicated issue. I understand both sides of the argument and just want the discussion to produce a more educated acceptable and tolerant environment where the rights of men, women, children AND transgenders are all considered. I've also stated I didn't think the government should get involved and dictate bathroom policy.

You can ask Skylar and mdk if I know what the hub of the debate is about. I've been asking them to clearly define what a "transgender woman" is. And of the dozen or so requests, they have yet to answer. Instead they insert ad hominems and strawmen, hoping the question will go away.

So I'll ask you: what EXACTLY is a "transgender woman"? To establish your premise, it's incumbent upon you to convince people that a man pretending to be a women "is actually a woman".

Go.

That is a great question and the heart of the debate. I would seek input from the transgender community as to what they propose as this discussion revolves around their lifestyle. They should consider the fears and anxieties that surround men, women, and children and make a common sense proposal with everybody's concerns in mind. Im just an advocate for tolerance and equality. This debate doesn't have a direct effect on me so ultimately it should be decided between the transgender community and those that feel like their rights or privacy is being infringed.

From my limited experience and exposure to the issue, i'd suggest that for somebody to be considered a transgender man or women they would have had to gone through some form or therapy or counseling that addresses the underlying issues and through that process it was decided that transition is the best option for their mental health. They should be living the transitioned lifestyle, which means they take on the opposite sexes appearance, both in physical appearance and in dress. If there is controversy surrounding somebodies use of a facility and police get involved, there can be verification from the persons doctor that the above steps have been taken to give credibility to the "gender identity".

These are off the top of my head ideas, but I think its start to providing a structured system that addresses both parties concerns and solves the issue of a man saying "I feel like a woman today so I'll use the woman's restroom"

Additionally schools would undergo a more extensive process, where the child would undergo a series of steps to qualify as a transitioned

"Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group,” the authors wrote.

The study, McHugh wrote in his op-ed, found that “beginning about 10 years after having the surgery, the transgendered began to experience increasing mental difficulties. Most shockingly, their suicide mortality rose almost 20-fold above the comparable nontransgender population."

McHugh says that Johns Hopkins "launched a study in the 1970s comparing the outcomes of transgendered people who had the surgery with the outcomes of those who did not."

"Most of the surgically treated patients described themselves as 'satisfied' by the results, but their subsequent psycho-social adjustments were no better than those who didn't have the surgery,” he explained.

You keep siting this HcHugh report that Skylar did a pretty good job of discrediting. Perhaps its time to find another credible source if you want consideration. But I don't think its necessary...

Like with homosexuals and like with all people, we are all different. Homosexuality can be a result of environmental influences and it is also a natural instinct for many. The causes for Transgender tendencies isn't a constant either, some with the proper treatment can be reprogrammed to the social norms, some kids can grow out of it... we should work on therapies and treatments that provide these individuals with the right kind of support. This does not include telling them they are sick and mentally ill in need of fixing.

People don't walk into a doctors office and say I feel like a woman today can you chop this thing off... It is a very intensive and expensive process that they go through. All areas of this process should be further explored and developed.

Again I come to the question... Why do you care so much to discredit what Transexuals claim to be their truth? Why do you care so much to label them as mentally ill? How does their transitioning effect your life? This seems to be more than just a bathroom issue for you.

McHugh was not discredited in any way. Lol. Your "theories" are not any valid than Dr. McHugh's or my own. Yes, when someone is sick, they need to know they are sick so that they can seek out the proper treatment. Feeding a delusion is the WORST thing you can do.

Why do you think our suicide rates are SO much more prevalent now than ever in the past? Because your "treatments" are working. Hmm. Interesting because the statistics would say NO.

I am posting on this topic because basically, I think you are a bunch of monsters. These people need therapy, not people encouraging them to surgically deform themselves.

I don't know where you get this "encouragement" term. I think therapy first to help identify issues and work on coping mechanisms so they can feel good about who they are. Im not a doctor or a therapist, but ive heard many stories, in some cases therapy resolves issues and others not. Did you watch that video I posted twice yesterday?

Nope. I don't have time to sit and watch a video! I have important postings to make and texting to do!

yeah, totally... I think Dr McHughs has another article out... Spend your time just exploring things that support your argument and spend no time looking at the other side with an open mind. Brilliant approach.

Oh, because you are here to "teach" me, because I don't know anything? Lol. Sorry, I can't think of anything you or anyone else would say that would make me accept that being a transgender is "normal." Take that to the BANK.

If the child on your video is having "gender identity problems" then a psychiatrist is the appropriate route to take.

If it was your child, what would you do? Give him or her dangerous hormones and prepare him or her for surgery?

Also, what on earth does a CHILD know? Quite normal for them to be confused especially when there is a history of abuse and/or mental illness. Not to mention, studies say that 70 to 80% of them "grow out of it" by adulthood.

Why don't you just admit that you people are monsters who are trying to create "monsters" who really don't fit into any "gender" category? You are an advocate for that.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

From my limited experience and exposure to the issue, i'd suggest that for somebody to be considered a transgender man or women they would have had to gone through some form or therapy or counseling that addresses the underlying issues and through that process it was decided that transition is the best option for their mental health. They should be living the transitioned lifestyle, which means they take on the opposite sexes appearance, both in physical appearance and in dress. If there is controversy surrounding somebodies use of a facility and police get involved, there can be verification from the persons doctor that the above steps have been taken to give credibility to the "gender identity".

These are off the top of my head ideas...

OK, for purposes of legal clarity...

"transgender" is still a muddy term. We could call them "multilees" or "halflings" or ? which would describe more completely, openly and accurately what they really are after MDs agree to drug and or cut them up.

"transition". You mean from a man to a mutilated man? How long does "transition" take? How long and at what stages would women rape survivors be required to shower with them? Before or after the criminal MDs amputate their male genitals to "cure a mental illness"?

If you don't want to be called a bigot then you can chose your words more wisely... multilees and halflings, cut them up are derogatory and unnecessary terms... Unless you intend to offend your opposition during debate, there is no point in talking like that... Would you say the same to a breast cancer victim who had a mastectomy?

Per your questions: My idea would be to break the "transition" into phases: 1. meet with doctor or therapist to discuss issues 2. If decided by doctor that transition is best move for mental health then they go through a period by living the lifestyle of opposite sex. 3. Drug therapy 4. Surgical procedure. Hopefully 3 and 4 can be avoided by effective methods in 1 and 2.

As for the shower rule... I really don't think transgenders desire to shower or get naked in public, especially if they have different anatomy. But that may be a consideration that is discussed. No showering or exposure if you have opposite anatomy as the labeled facility... Again the debate needs to be had between the Trans group and the ones that feel their presence violates their privacy. I don't know everything that Trans people are looking for and I don't know all the fears that women may have. Me personally I don't really care and think most of these things work themselves out without the need for laws to define it all. If I see a creeper in the bathroom, I just leave. There has been many of times that a homeless person, or a drunk person, a looney tune has been in the restroom... If they made me feel uncomfortable I just waited for them to leave. Not a big deal...

Good, now care to explain to me why the 99.5% have to leave a bathroom if a member of the .05% makes them uncomfortable, rather than the other way around?

I'm serious here, do you understand the lack of logic in an argument that argues that it's okay to by law make the majority uncomfortable for the comfort of the minority?

What you say is true. If you're in the bathroom and person who makes you uncomfortable walks in , YOU CAN LEAVE. Same thing holds true for the mentally ill, they can use the gender correct bathroom or if they feel uncomfortable LEAVE.

You have yourself said this is an option, it all depends on which person you think should be made to leave.

This argument is fucking stupid. Quite frankly any person who thinks the government should be telling private companies what bathroom policy they should have should be taken out back and shot in the head. That goes for whether you believe the government should mandate gender specific bathrooms OR gender neutral bathrooms. Either way.

As for government facilities, that's easy, make one bathroom in each building gender neutral and tell people "there if you don't want to be identified as a certain gender based on which bathroom you use, THAT's the bathroom you use, no you may not demand that ALL bathrooms be gender neutral"

PROBLEM FUCKING SOLVED.

 

[ChrisL]

We don't care if you call us bigots. The phrase is tired, old and overused in so many wrong situations that it's "punch" has ceased to have any effect.

The problem you face is that men won't be allowed in the women's showers or restrooms. It's a fact. No matter what the man is thinking in his head or how delusional he is. The fact that he is experiencing delusions so severe that he fancies himself a woman despite what his eyes are telling him when he looks between his legs means that society should double-down on not letting especially these men in alone with women showering.

You have one GIANT hurdle you're facing: WOMEN behind doors marked WOMEN. They have rights too you know. You didn't? Well then you learn something new every day, don't you? Just ask Justice Ginsburg. She's going to side with women on this one. Likely Kennedy will too and possibly even Sotomayor. Breyer usually sucks up to whatever Kennedy tells him to do (what else could explain his vote to disenfranchise kids from either a mother or father for life ~Obergefell). So you're looking down the maw of possibly every Justice except the lesbian Kagan, because she is drunk with rainbow Koolaid, voting to protect women instead of delusional men.

Justice Ginsburg = WOMEN (already said she believes bathrooms should be segregated on record)

Justices Alito, Roberts & Thomas = WOMEN

Justice Kennedy = WOMEN (likely, because of the remorse he's undoubtedly feeling assigning unknown numbers of children to lives legally-deprived of either a mother or father)

Justice Breyer = WOMEN (whatever Kennedy does, see above)

Justice Sotomayer = UNKNOWN (she is catholic, a woman, but has also drunk the Rainbow Koolaid..could go either way)

Justice Kagan = MEN PRETENDING TO BE WOMEN. (Koolaid)

************

BELOW ..Slade vv you're going to lose this one. Start the grieving process now so you have a jump on it.

Your funny man, i'll give you that... You keep bringing up this women belong in the womens bathroom... Don't you understand that the argument is about "what a woman" is? One side is anatomy and birth certificates... The other side recognizes gender identity as a classification of Man/Woman. That is the whole argument. NOBODY is proposing to ever let Men in Womens restrooms. The definition of man and women is where the two sides differ.

I'm not vested enough to grieve on this one, I've stated many times that I think this is a complicated issue. I understand both sides of the argument and just want the discussion to produce a more educated acceptable and tolerant environment where the rights of men, women, children AND transgenders are all considered. I've also stated I didn't think the government should get involved and dictate bathroom policy.

You can ask Skylar and mdk if I know what the hub of the debate is about. I've been asking them to clearly define what a "transgender woman" is. And of the dozen or so requests, they have yet to answer. Instead they insert ad hominems and strawmen, hoping the question will go away.

So I'll ask you: what EXACTLY is a "transgender woman"? To establish your premise, it's incumbent upon you to convince people that a man pretending to be a women "is actually a woman".

Go.

That is a great question and the heart of the debate. I would seek input from the transgender community as to what they propose as this discussion revolves around their lifestyle. They should consider the fears and anxieties that surround men, women, and children and make a common sense proposal with everybody's concerns in mind. Im just an advocate for tolerance and equality. This debate doesn't have a direct effect on me so ultimately it should be decided between the transgender community and those that feel like their rights or privacy is being infringed.

From my limited experience and exposure to the issue, i'd suggest that for somebody to be considered a transgender man or women they would have had to gone through some form or therapy or counseling that addresses the underlying issues and through that process it was decided that transition is the best option for their mental health. They should be living the transitioned lifestyle, which means they take on the opposite sexes appearance, both in physical appearance and in dress. If there is controversy surrounding somebodies use of a facility and police get involved, there can be verification from the persons doctor that the above steps have been taken to give credibility to the "gender identity".

These are off the top of my head ideas, but I think its start to providing a structured system that addresses both parties concerns and solves the issue of a man saying "I feel like a woman today so I'll use the woman's restroom"

Additionally schools would undergo a more extensive process, where the child would undergo a series of steps to qualify as a transitioned

"Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group,” the authors wrote.

The study, McHugh wrote in his op-ed, found that “beginning about 10 years after having the surgery, the transgendered began to experience increasing mental difficulties. Most shockingly, their suicide mortality rose almost 20-fold above the comparable nontransgender population."

McHugh says that Johns Hopkins "launched a study in the 1970s comparing the outcomes of transgendered people who had the surgery with the outcomes of those who did not."

"Most of the surgically treated patients described themselves as 'satisfied' by the results, but their subsequent psycho-social adjustments were no better than those who didn't have the surgery,” he explained.

You keep siting this HcHugh report that Skylar did a pretty good job of discrediting. Perhaps its time to find another credible source if you want consideration. But I don't think its necessary...

Like with homosexuals and like with all people, we are all different. Homosexuality can be a result of environmental influences and it is also a natural instinct for many. The causes for Transgender tendencies isn't a constant either, some with the proper treatment can be reprogrammed to the social norms, some kids can grow out of it... we should work on therapies and treatments that provide these individuals with the right kind of support. This does not include telling them they are sick and mentally ill in need of fixing.

People don't walk into a doctors office and say I feel like a woman today can you chop this thing off... It is a very intensive and expensive process that they go through. All areas of this process should be further explored and developed.

Again I come to the question... Why do you care so much to discredit what Transexuals claim to be their truth? Why do you care so much to label them as mentally ill? How does their transitioning effect your life? This seems to be more than just a bathroom issue for you.

McHugh was not discredited in any way. Lol. Your "theories" are not any valid than Dr. McHugh's or my own. Yes, when someone is sick, they need to know they are sick so that they can seek out the proper treatment. Feeding a delusion is the WORST thing you can do.

Why do you think our suicide rates are SO much more prevalent now than ever in the past? Because your "treatments" are working. Hmm. Interesting because the statistics would say NO.

I am posting on this topic because basically, I think you are a bunch of monsters. These people need therapy, not people encouraging them to surgically deform themselves.

I don't know where you get this "encouragement" term. I think therapy first to help identify issues and work on coping mechanisms so they can feel good about who they are. Im not a doctor or a therapist, but ive heard many stories, in some cases therapy resolves issues and others not. Did you watch that video I posted twice yesterday?

Nope. I don't have time to sit and watch a video! I have important postings to make and texting to do!

yeah, totally... I think Dr McHughs has another article out... Spend your time just exploring things that support your argument and spend no time looking at the other side with an open mind. Brilliant approach.

Yeah, I have more important things to do than listen to some child whine about their gender.

 

[Slade3200]

Like I said, you can call me a bigot until the cows come home. I'll wear it as a badge of sanity. Just because you don't like the fact that men can never be women and women can never be men, will never affect my saying they are halflings or mutilees. That is ,in fact, what they are.

A woman with breast cancer who had her breast removed to save her life from cancer is nothing like a man who had his HEALTHY, FUNCTIONAL genitals removed to play pretend. If a woman could simply get therapy to cure her breast cancer, no doctor would amputate that breast.

According to your logic, aren't these women, technically mutilees and halflings?? Come on man, if you're gonna speak the truth then speak the truth. The motivation behind the surgery doesn't effect what it is, right?

 

[ChrisL]

From my limited experience and exposure to the issue, i'd suggest that for somebody to be considered a transgender man or women they would have had to gone through some form or therapy or counseling that addresses the underlying issues and through that process it was decided that transition is the best option for their mental health. They should be living the transitioned lifestyle, which means they take on the opposite sexes appearance, both in physical appearance and in dress. If there is controversy surrounding somebodies use of a facility and police get involved, there can be verification from the persons doctor that the above steps have been taken to give credibility to the "gender identity".

These are off the top of my head ideas...

OK, for purposes of legal clarity...

"transgender" is still a muddy term. We could call them "multilees" or "halflings" or ? which would describe more completely, openly and accurately what they really are after MDs agree to drug and or cut them up.

"transition". You mean from a man to a mutilated man? How long does "transition" take? How long and at what stages would women rape survivors be required to shower with them? Before or after the criminal MDs amputate their male genitals to "cure a mental illness"?

If you don't want to be called a bigot then you can chose your words more wisely... multilees and halflings, cut them up are derogatory and unnecessary terms... Unless you intend to offend your opposition during debate, there is no point in talking like that... Would you say the same to a breast cancer victim who had a mastectomy?

Per your questions: My idea would be to break the "transition" into phases: 1. meet with doctor or therapist to discuss issues 2. If decided by doctor that transition is best move for mental health then they go through a period by living the lifestyle of opposite sex. 3. Drug therapy 4. Surgical procedure. Hopefully 3 and 4 can be avoided by effective methods in 1 and 2.

As for the shower rule... I really don't think transgenders desire to shower or get naked in public, especially if they have different anatomy. But that may be a consideration that is discussed. No showering or exposure if you have opposite anatomy as the labeled facility... Again the debate needs to be had between the Trans group and the ones that feel their presence violates their privacy. I don't know everything that Trans people are looking for and I don't know all the fears that women may have. Me personally I don't really care and think most of these things work themselves out without the need for laws to define it all. If I see a creeper in the bathroom, I just leave. There has been many of times that a homeless person, or a drunk person, a looney tune has been in the restroom... If they made me feel uncomfortable I just waited for them to leave. Not a big deal...

Good, now care to explain to me why the 99.5% have to leave a bathroom if a member of the .05% makes them uncomfortable, rather than the other way around?

I'm serious here, do you understand the lack of logic in an argument that argues that it's okay to by law make the majority uncomfortable for the comfort of the minority?

What you say is true. If you're in the bathroom and person who makes you uncomfortable walks in , YOU CAN LEAVE. Same thing holds true for the mentally ill, they can use the gender correct bathroom or if they feel uncomfortable LEAVE.

You have yourself said this is an option, it all depends on which person you think should be made to leave.

This argument is fucking stupid. Quite frankly any person who thinks the government should be telling private companies what bathroom policy they should have should be taken out back and shot in the head. That goes for whether you believe the government should mandate gender specific bathrooms OR gender neutral bathrooms. Either way.

As for government facilities, that's easy, make one bathroom in each building gender neutral and tell people "there if you don't want to be identified as a certain gender based on which bathroom you use, THAT's the bathroom you use, no you may not demand that ALL bathrooms be gender neutral"

PROBLEM FUCKING SOLVED.

He doesn't care about the comfort and safety of women and children. They are secondary to the trannies for him apparently.

 

[Silhouette]

It's pretty simple man... Who am I to call somebody delusional and tell them they can't do something to their own bodies?? Who are you to do that??

I've got a better question....who is an MD who prescribes class #1 carcinogenic hormones or amputating healthy organs in order to "cure" a mental illness outside the FDA's recommended use of such practices, and in full arrogant defiance of the hippocratic oath?

Answer: A felon.

 

[ChrisL]

Like I said, you can call me a bigot until the cows come home. I'll wear it as a badge of sanity. Just because you don't like the fact that men can never be women and women can never be men, will never affect my saying they are halflings or mutilees. That is ,in fact, what they are.

A woman with breast cancer who had her breast removed to save her life from cancer is nothing like a man who had his HEALTHY, FUNCTIONAL genitals removed to play pretend. If a woman could simply get therapy to cure her breast cancer, no doctor would amputate that breast.

According to your logic, aren't these women, technically mutilees and halflings?? Come on man, if you're gonna speak the truth then speak the truth. The motivation behind the surgery doesn't effect what it is, right?

A person with breast cancer has surgery because something is the matter with them. They have a DISEASE. Why do you keep using people who have physical well known diseases and comparing them to transgenders who have NO physical anomalies until AFTER they get this Frankenstein surgery?

 

[Fair&Balanced]

From my limited experience and exposure to the issue, i'd suggest that for somebody to be considered a transgender man or women they would have had to gone through some form or therapy or counseling that addresses the underlying issues and through that process it was decided that transition is the best option for their mental health. They should be living the transitioned lifestyle, which means they take on the opposite sexes appearance, both in physical appearance and in dress. If there is controversy surrounding somebodies use of a facility and police get involved, there can be verification from the persons doctor that the above steps have been taken to give credibility to the "gender identity".

These are off the top of my head ideas...

OK, for purposes of legal clarity...

"transgender" is still a muddy term. We could call them "multilees" or "halflings" or ? which would describe more completely, openly and accurately what they really are after MDs agree to drug and or cut them up.

"transition". You mean from a man to a mutilated man? How long does "transition" take? How long and at what stages would women rape survivors be required to shower with them? Before or after the criminal MDs amputate their male genitals to "cure a mental illness"?

If you don't want to be called a bigot then you can chose your words more wisely... multilees and halflings, cut them up are derogatory and unnecessary terms... Unless you intend to offend your opposition during debate, there is no point in talking like that... Would you say the same to a breast cancer victim who had a mastectomy?

Per your questions: My idea would be to break the "transition" into phases: 1. meet with doctor or therapist to discuss issues 2. If decided by doctor that transition is best move for mental health then they go through a period by living the lifestyle of opposite sex. 3. Drug therapy 4. Surgical procedure. Hopefully 3 and 4 can be avoided by effective methods in 1 and 2.

As for the shower rule... I really don't think transgenders desire to shower or get naked in public, especially if they have different anatomy. But that may be a consideration that is discussed. No showering or exposure if you have opposite anatomy as the labeled facility... Again the debate needs to be had between the Trans group and the ones that feel their presence violates their privacy. I don't know everything that Trans people are looking for and I don't know all the fears that women may have. Me personally I don't really care and think most of these things work themselves out without the need for laws to define it all. If I see a creeper in the bathroom, I just leave. There has been many of times that a homeless person, or a drunk person, a looney tune has been in the restroom... If they made me feel uncomfortable I just waited for them to leave. Not a big deal...

Good, now care to explain to me why the 99.5% have to leave a bathroom if a member of the .05% makes them uncomfortable, rather than the other way around?

I'm serious here, do you understand the lack of logic in an argument that argues that it's okay to by law make the majority uncomfortable for the comfort of the minority?

What you say is true. If you're in the bathroom and person who makes you uncomfortable walks in , YOU CAN LEAVE. Same thing holds true for the mentally ill, they can use the gender correct bathroom or if they feel uncomfortable LEAVE.

You have yourself said this is an option, it all depends on which person you think should be made to leave.

This argument is fucking stupid. Quite frankly any person who thinks the government should be telling private companies what bathroom policy they should have should be taken out back and shot in the head. That goes for whether you believe the government should mandate gender specific bathrooms OR gender neutral bathrooms. Either way.

As for government facilities, that's easy, make one bathroom in each building gender neutral and tell people "there if you don't want to be identified as a certain gender based on which bathroom you use, THAT's the bathroom you use, no you may not demand that ALL bathrooms be gender neutral"

PROBLEM FUCKING SOLVED.

He doesn't care about the comfort and safety of women and children. They are secondary to the trannies for him apparently.

Pssst , he doesn't care about the trannies either. This is strictly about politics for people like this.

You can always tell people who don't think for themselves, both on the left and the right, when they've never seen a position from "their side" that they wouldn't defend.

Allowing little boys to say they think they're little girls and using the girls washrooms is madness. ANY sane person would agree with that.