Miracles are proof of SOMETHING!

[Blues Man]

You mean the only one that fits the data. That you want to dismiss because it offends your worldview?

The data or 5% of the data?

And my world view doesn't require some divine being yours does.

 

[ding]

Spontaneous creation of the universe from nothing

An interesting idea is that the universe could be spontaneously created from nothing, but no rigorous proof has been given. In this paper, we present such a proof based on the analytic solutions of the Wheeler-DeWitt equation (WDWE). Explicit solutions of the WDWE for the special operator ordering factor p = −2 (or 4) show that, once a small true vacuum bubble is created by quantum fluctuations of the metastable false vacuum, it can expand exponentially no matter whether the bubble is closed, flat or open. The exponential expansion will end when the bubble becomes large and thus the early universe appears. With the de Broglie-Bohm quantum trajectory theory, we show explicitly that it is the quantum potential that plays the role of the cosmological constant and provides the power for the exponential expansion of the true vacuum bubble. So it is clear that the birth of the early universe completely depends on the quantum nature of the theory.

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1404.1207.pdf

 

[Blues Man]

Spontaneous creation of the universe from nothing

An interesting idea is that the universe could be spontaneously created from nothing, but no rigorous proof has been given. In this paper, we present such a proof based on the analytic solutions of the Wheeler-DeWitt equation (WDWE). Explicit solutions of the WDWE for the special operator ordering factor p = −2 (or 4) show that, once a small true vacuum bubble is created by quantum fluctuations of the metastable false vacuum, it can expand exponentially no matter whether the bubble is closed, flat or open. The exponential expansion will end when the bubble becomes large and thus the early universe appears. With the de Broglie-Bohm quantum trajectory theory, we show explicitly that it is the quantum potential that plays the role of the cosmological constant and provides the power for the exponential expansion of the true vacuum bubble. So it is clear that the birth of the early universe completely depends on the quantum nature of the theory.

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1404.1207.pdf

And let me guess a god created those quantum fluctuations right?

 

[ding]

The data or 5% of the data?

And my world view doesn't require some divine being yours does.

Your argument is literally that you can't know anything because you don't know everything even though what you don't know has nothing to do with the universe being created from nothing.

You started off this discussion trying to argue how the universe was created with equal amounts of matter and anti-matter where the anti-matter had a different decay rate than the matter which is which is why we have a universe filled with matter instead of radiation. Inherent in that argument is the belief that the universe was created from nothing. After I destroyed that argument you then switched to an argument that was diametrically opposed to your first argument and now are saying we can't know anything because we don't know everything. Even though what you don't know has nothing to do with the creation of the universe from nothing.

 

[ding]

And let me guess a god created those quantum fluctuations right?

I have provided you with scientific papers explaining how the universe was created from nothing and a video of a world renowned cosmologist who explained it to you in layman's terms.

You have responded with we can't know anything because we don't know everything even though you have not been able to show how that affects what we do know.

 

[Blues Man]

Your argument is literally that you can't know anything because you don't know everything even though the "you don't know everything" has nothing to do with the universe being created from nothing.

You started off this discussion trying to argue how the universe was created from nothing with equal amounts of matter and anti-matter where the anti-matter had a different decay rate than the matter which is which is why we have a universe filled with matter instead of radiation. Inherent in that argument is the belief that the universe was created from nothing. After I destroyed that argument you then switched to an argument that was diametrically opposed to your first argument and now are saying we can't know anything because we don't know everything. Even though the everything you are referring to has nothing to do with the creation of the universe from nothing.

I didn't say we can't know anything.

I said it's ridiculous to think we can knw everything about the inception of the universe when we know nothing of 95% of the universe.

 

[Blues Man]

I have provided you with scientific papers explaining how the universe was created from nothing and a video of a world renowned cosmologist who explained it to you in layman's terms.

You have responded with we can't know anything because we don't know everything even though you have not been able to show how that affects what we do know.

That accounts for the 5% of what we understand.

I'm waiting for the 95% we don't

 

[ding]

I didn't say we can't know anything.

I said it's ridiculous to think we can knw everything about the inception of the universe when we know nothing of 95% of the universe.

And yet you are using that to dismiss the big bang which is based upon the CREATION of the universe from nothing.

 

[ding]

That accounts for the 5% of what we understand.

I'm waiting for the 95% we don't

Sure sounds like you are arguing we can't know anything unless we know everything. That's not how science works.

Spontaneous creation of the universe from nothing

An interesting idea is that the universe could be spontaneously created from nothing, but no rigorous proof has been given. In this paper, we present such a proof based on the analytic solutions of the Wheeler-DeWitt equation (WDWE). Explicit solutions of the WDWE for the special operator ordering factor p = −2 (or 4) show that, once a small true vacuum bubble is created by quantum fluctuations of the metastable false vacuum, it can expand exponentially no matter whether the bubble is closed, flat or open. The exponential expansion will end when the bubble becomes large and thus the early universe appears. With the de Broglie-Bohm quantum trajectory theory, we show explicitly that it is the quantum potential that plays the role of the cosmological constant and provides the power for the exponential expansion of the true vacuum bubble. So it is clear that the birth of the early universe completely depends on the quantum nature of the theory.

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1404.1207.pdf

 

[ding]

Creatio ex nihilo - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Creatio ex nihilo (Latin for "creation out of nothing") is the doctrine that matter is not eternal but had to be created by some divine creative act.[1] It is a theistic answer to the question of how the universe comes to exist. It is in contrast to Ex nihilo nihil fit or "nothing comes from nothing", which means that all things were formed from preexisting things; an idea by the Greek philosopher Parmenides (c.540-480 BC) about the nature of all things, and later more formally stated by Titus Lucretius Carus (c. 99 – c. 55 BC)

Spontaneous creation of the universe from nothing

An interesting idea is that the universe could be spontaneously created from nothing, but no rigorous proof has been given. In this paper, we present such a proof based on the analytic solutions of the Wheeler-DeWitt equation (WDWE). Explicit solutions of the WDWE for the special operator ordering factor p = −2 (or 4) show that, once a small true vacuum bubble is created by quantum fluctuations of the metastable false vacuum, it can expand exponentially no matter whether the bubble is closed, flat or open. The exponential expansion will end when the bubble becomes large and thus the early universe appears. With the de Broglie-Bohm quantum trajectory theory, we show explicitly that it is the quantum potential that plays the role of the cosmological constant and provides the power for the exponential expansion of the true vacuum bubble. So it is clear that the birth of the early universe completely depends on the quantum nature of the theory.

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1404.1207.pdf

 

[Blues Man]

Sure sounds like you are arguing we can't know anything unless we know everything. That's not how science works.

Spontaneous creation of the universe from nothing

An interesting idea is that the universe could be spontaneously created from nothing, but no rigorous proof has been given. In this paper, we present such a proof based on the analytic solutions of the Wheeler-DeWitt equation (WDWE). Explicit solutions of the WDWE for the special operator ordering factor p = −2 (or 4) show that, once a small true vacuum bubble is created by quantum fluctuations of the metastable false vacuum, it can expand exponentially no matter whether the bubble is closed, flat or open. The exponential expansion will end when the bubble becomes large and thus the early universe appears. With the de Broglie-Bohm quantum trajectory theory, we show explicitly that it is the quantum potential that plays the role of the cosmological constant and provides the power for the exponential expansion of the true vacuum bubble. So it is clear that the birth of the early universe completely depends on the quantum nature of the theory.

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1404.1207.pdf

Nope that's what YOU think I'm saying.

We understand a little bit of the universe.

My dog will never understand prime numbers and her brain is made of the same stuff mine is. We have no problem believing that a dog is simply incapable of the thought processes necessary to understand prime numbers but we in our arrogance can't admit that there are things that humans are incapable of knowing for the same reasons.

So we're really good at 5% and that's all well and good but in reality it's hardly anything.

 

[ding]

Nope that's what YOU think I'm saying.

We understand a little bit of the universe.

My dog will never understand prime numbers and her brain is made of the same stuff mine is. We have no problem believing that a dog is simply incapable of the thought processes necessary to understand prime numbers but we in our arrogance can't admit that there are things that humans are incapable of knowing for the same reasons.

So we're really good at 5% and that's all well and good but in reality it's hardly anything.

No. That's exactly what you are saying. It's a cop out because you got your ass beat in this debate. Go ahead and get the last word in.

 

[Blues Man]

No. That's exactly what you are saying. It's a cop out because you got your ass beat in this debate. Go ahead and get the last word in.

People who need to claim victory on the internet are pathetic.

For one I never said the universe didn't come from nothing so there was no debate on that topic whatsoever.

You just need to claim a win for reasons of your own that I give not a single fuck about.