Morality of Wealth Redistribution

[Dad2three]

You didn't answer the question, nimrod.

Oh I think MANY dictators are bad guys, weird how Reagan supported Saddam BEFORE we decided he was 'bad' though. How many other nations are you libertarians going to want to overthrow BECAUSE they are bad guys?

The issue wasn't whether he was a bad guy. The issue was whether he was a threat to the Western World, and he definitely was. He was as much of a threat as Adolph Hitler was.

lol, 'small gubrmnt' libertarian..

Fucking moron

 

[zeke]

You didn't answer the question, nimrod.

Oh I think MANY dictators are bad guys, weird how Reagan supported Saddam BEFORE we decided he was 'bad' though. How many other nations are you libertarians going to want to overthrow BECAUSE they are bad guys?

The issue wasn't whether he was a bad guy. The issue was whether he was a threat to the Western World, and he definitely was. He was as much of a threat as Adolph Hitler was.

Saddam = Hitler you say.
You really are a fucking idiot. No if ands or buts about it. Fucking stupid you are.

 

[bripat9643]

Why didn't he make his money in Africa or China? Oh right, he made it BECAUSE he was born in the USA AND because of the SOCIETY THE US PROVIDED OVER 200+ YEARS!

"The society the U.S. provided?" Government does not create society, moron. Charging for the benefits of society would be like charging for the benefit of the English language. Government didn't create it, and no one owes government a thing for its existence. The same goes for "society."

That has to be one of the top 10 lamest arguments ever posted in this forum.

Benjamin Franklin, Founding Father, American diplomat, statesman, and scientist; letter to Robert Morris, December 25, 1783:

"All the property that is necessary to a Man, for the Conservation of the Individual and the Propagation of the Species, is his natural Right, which none can justly deprive him of: But all Property superfluous to such purposes is the Property of the Publick, who, by their Laws, have created it, and who may therefore by other laws dispose of it, whenever the Welfare of the Publick shall demand such Disposition. He that does not like civil Society on these Terms, let him retire and live among Savages. He can have no right to the benefits of Society, who will not pay his Club towards the Support of it."

The appeal to authority is your favorite logical fallacy

 

[bripat9643]

Oh I think MANY dictators are bad guys, weird how Reagan supported Saddam BEFORE we decided he was 'bad' though. How many other nations are you libertarians going to want to overthrow BECAUSE they are bad guys?

The issue wasn't whether he was a bad guy. The issue was whether he was a threat to the Western World, and he definitely was. He was as much of a threat as Adolph Hitler was.

Saddam = Hitler you say.
You really are a fucking idiot. No if ands or buts about it. Fucking stupid you are.

Only a fucking idiot would claim I said Saddam = Hitler.

 

[bripat9643]

Oh I think MANY dictators are bad guys, weird how Reagan supported Saddam BEFORE we decided he was 'bad' though. How many other nations are you libertarians going to want to overthrow BECAUSE they are bad guys?

The issue wasn't whether he was a bad guy. The issue was whether he was a threat to the Western World, and he definitely was. He was as much of a threat as Adolph Hitler was.

lol, 'small gubrmnt' libertarian..

Fucking moron

I'm an anarchist, not a small government libertarian. However, libertarians don't argue that we should never use our military. Under what circumstance do you believe it's justifiable to use military force?

 

[Ernie S.]

There is a such thing as being too rich for Democracy so at some point we came up with cutting the mega rich's fortunes in half upon their death's. That way their kids still get half a fortune and the government/people get their half.

Article: How Rich is Too Rich For Democracy? | OpEdNews

But the rich have fought back and they got rid of the death tax. I don't know where it stands now but with our debt we could use half of Bill Gates fortune when he dies.

Or that guy who owns the Clippers. We should get half of the $2 billion he got from the sale of the Clippers. And he probably already paid $1 billion in taxes so his kids can have half a billion the state gets the rest.

Please don't cry for them. They'll be just fine. And if they don't pay then the poor and middle class have to pay. That's not right, fair and it doesn't work.

What right do you have to Bill Gates' money?

Why didn't he make his money in Africa or China? Oh right, he made it BECAUSE he was born in the USA AND because of the SOCIETY THE US PROVIDED OVER 200+ YEARS!

So it follows that "Joe Blow", assuming he was born here, has a right to your property?

Bill Gates got rich and the kid who lived across the street didn't. They both enjoyed the same society and infrastructure. Gates was driven, smart and lucky. He got rich on THAT, not on the backs of citizens.
To take his money or mine, or yours for that matter to give it to the kid across the street who has grown into a lazy, unmotivated loser, is not only morally wrong, but it violates the Constitution.
Now, if Mr Gates or I would care to donate our own money, bypassing the government, we should be encouraged to do so.
However, I suspect, Mr Gates, and I don't care to reward laziness.
That's your prerogative. By all means, pay for his food, housing, medical care. Send his kids to college and pay off his debts, but pay for it yourself, out of your own pocket, for while Mr Gates may have more to give, I don't.

 

[dnsmith35]

Yes, there is a disparity of income, but,

you sound almost apologetic about it?? The creative geniuses like Gates Jobs Brin Musk are the ones who push evolution further. If we limited them to a common income why would they bother. Why provide disincentives for the creative genius from whom we all benefit in the end?


Imagine the state of evolution if no animal was allowed to be superior for fear of making the other's feel inferior!

Good post. Also, what the class envy/resentment crowd never wants to look at is how many people also prospered directly or indirectly because of the rich man's climb to wealth? He couldn't have accomplished such great financial success without benefitting many others along the way. And even now, how many benefit from the markets the rich provide for expensive things? How many benefit from the massive taxes the rich pay even if they do manage to shelter income and pay at a smaller percentage than somebody else? How many have benefitted from the scholarship funds and hospital wings and museum exhibits and other philanthropy almost all the rich engage in? And the direct and indirect benefits often go on in a ripple effect for generations, long after the rich man has passed on.

The only thing that bugs me about the rich is that I'm not one of them, but I sure don't think that is their fault.

The entire population has benefited from the prosperity of our country. Even our poor are but relatively poor by virtue of only being less wealthy than those with more. With the exception of just a few who for various reasons have fallen through the huge safety net we provide our poor, our relatively poor are wealthy by world standards.

 

[dnsmith35]

REALLY? SO GOV'T POLICY and THEIR INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION DIDN'T DO IT, THE LAZY BASTARDS JUST DECIDED TO WORK ALL OF A SUDDEN? LOL

Government got out of the way. Exactly what would spur our economy.

Sure, it wasn't conservatives race to the bottom and shipping US jobs there

Distortions, myths and fairy tales, the ONLY thing conservatives/libertarians EVER have

All sane people ARE SURE, "it wasn't conservatives race to the bottom and shipping US jobs there: URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/07/12/study-offshoring-creates-as-many-u-s-jobs-as-it-kills/"]http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/07/12/study-offshoring-creates-as-many-u-s-jobs-as-it-kills/[/URL]

Distortions, myths and fairy tales, the ONLY thing conservatives/libertarians EVER have.

Left wing extremists spout even more distortions, myths and fairy tails than to the conservatives. You are a prime example of spouting propaganda which is all distortions, myths and fairy tales. Even we simple liberals can see that. If and when I see some conservative distortions, myths and fairy tales, I will address them as well.

 

[dnsmith35]

YOU prefer not to use reason, logic or history,

Unlike you, I only use reason, logic and history instead of the propaganda you pull off of radical web sites.

you like most right wing conservatives (BLUE DOGS) go on 'feelings' and rhetoric of pulling ones self up by his bootstraps. Ever actually try it? Why can't many do it in China, Mexico, India, etc? Just lazy huh?

One reason the 3rd world workers can't do it comes from their being held down with socialist concepts and too much government control which does not allow it.

Yes, contrary to you, I do have feelings, and being a liberal without borders I believe in the humanity of man all over the world, not just the US where even our least wealthy people live better than most of the 3rd world (with the minor exceptions of some homeless people who are mostly disabled, mentally or physically) It behooves us to start with that small minority in the US and they help those equally poor all over the world before doing more for our "relative poor" in the US.

You know conservative economics is a failure when they have to keep reminding us how much better our poor is than the poor in 3rd world countries!



Libertarianism is one of those things that sounds good when you read about it in high school, or maybe your first year of college. But once you are out in the real world for say, five, or even six entire minutes, you quickly realize it's a narcissistic, child-like ideology that doesn't actually work and has no basis in reality

Since I was addressing an obvious reality to anyone with a brain, it is obvious you have no brain with which to think. Especially if you believe I was approaching the issue from the standpoint of conservatism. I am thrilled that even our poor are only relatively poor compared to the poor of the world. Now it is time to recognize that as decent human beings we owe assistance to the poor of the world as well as to our own. They best way to do that is to stop whining and crying about the insignificant labor intensive jobs we "let loose" in the process of further improving our own prosperity by creating 1.72 jobs for every one we do let loose. The concept is good for everyone, and the sane thinking people of the world understand that, not the stupid extremists on both sides of the political spectrum. If you were capable of pragmatism you would understand this.....no, you are too stupid to be pragmatic.

 

[dnsmith35]

Why didn't he make his money in Africa or China? Oh right, he made it BECAUSE he was born in the USA AND because of the SOCIETY THE US PROVIDED OVER 200+ YEARS!

"The society the U.S. provided?" Government does not create society, moron. Charging for the benefits of society would be like charging for the benefit of the English language. Government didn't create it, and no one owes government a thing for its existence. The same goes for "society."

That has to be one of the top 10 lamest arguments ever posted in this forum.

Benjamin Franklin, Founding Father, American diplomat, statesman, and scientist; letter to Robert Morris, December 25, 1783:

"All the property that is necessary to a Man, for the Conservation of the Individual and the Propagation of the Species, is his natural Right, which none can justly deprive him of: But all Property superfluous to such purposes is the Property of the Publick, who, by their Laws, have created it, and who may therefore by other laws dispose of it, whenever the Welfare of the Publick shall demand such Disposition. He that does not like civil Society on these Terms, let him retire and live among Savages. He can have no right to the benefits of Society, who will not pay his Club towards the Support of it."

Even Ben Franklin got some things wrong if you believe that.

 

[dnsmith35]

What right do you have to Bill Gates' money?

Why didn't he make his money in Africa or China? Oh right, he made it BECAUSE he was born in the USA AND because of the SOCIETY THE US PROVIDED OVER 200+ YEARS!

So it follows that "Joe Blow", assuming he was born here, has a right to your property?

Bill Gates got rich and the kid who lived across the street didn't. They both enjoyed the same society and infrastructure. Gates was driven, smart and lucky. He got rich on THAT, not on the backs of citizens.
To take his money or mine, or yours for that matter to give it to the kid across the street who has grown into a lazy, unmotivated loser, is not only morally wrong, but it violates the Constitution.
Now, if Mr Gates or I would care to donate our own money, bypassing the government, we should be encouraged to do so.
However, I suspect, Mr Gates, and I don't care to reward laziness.
That's your prerogative. By all means, pay for his food, housing, medical care. Send his kids to college and pay off his debts, but pay for it yourself, out of your own pocket, for while Mr Gates may have more to give, I don't.

Old Dummy 2 three should try to figure out how much Mr Gates made from sales outside of the US. Do you think he is stupid enough to believe that there are more computers running Microsoft programs in the US than in the rest of the world? Do you believe he is that stupid?

We (300+ million US citizens) live in a world with 7 billion other humans. Our common crop of left wing extremists care more for some Union worker making $50,000 a year than some poor African, or Indian, or Bangladeshi making and living off $3 to $5 a day, having one meal a day or less, living out of garbage dumps and in the streets, or next to a rural road.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

"The society the U.S. provided?" Government does not create society, moron. Charging for the benefits of society would be like charging for the benefit of the English language. Government didn't create it, and no one owes government a thing for its existence. The same goes for "society."

That has to be one of the top 10 lamest arguments ever posted in this forum.

Benjamin Franklin, Founding Father, American diplomat, statesman, and scientist; letter to Robert Morris, December 25, 1783:

"All the property that is necessary to a Man, for the Conservation of the Individual and the Propagation of the Species, is his natural Right, which none can justly deprive him of: But all Property superfluous to such purposes is the Property of the Publick, who, by their Laws, have created it, and who may therefore by other laws dispose of it, whenever the Welfare of the Publick shall demand such Disposition. He that does not like civil Society on these Terms, let him retire and live among Savages. He can have no right to the benefits of Society, who will not pay his Club towards the Support of it."

Even Ben Franklin got some things wrong if you believe that.

yes, my God, that's just what we need: some liberal Nazi deciding what's superfluous and stealing it from us at the point of a gun!!!!

Thankfully Frankin had many points of view:

"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."
-Benjamin Franklin

 

[dnsmith35]

Benjamin Franklin, Founding Father, American diplomat, statesman, and scientist; letter to Robert Morris, December 25, 1783:

"All the property that is necessary to a Man, for the Conservation of the Individual and the Propagation of the Species, is his natural Right, which none can justly deprive him of: But all Property superfluous to such purposes is the Property of the Publick, who, by their Laws, have created it, and who may therefore by other laws dispose of it, whenever the Welfare of the Publick shall demand such Disposition. He that does not like civil Society on these Terms, let him retire and live among Savages. He can have no right to the benefits of Society, who will not pay his Club towards the Support of it."

Even Ben Franklin got some things wrong if you believe that.

yes, my God, that's just what we need: some liberal Nazi deciding what's superfluous and stealing it from us at the point of a gun!!!!

Thankfully Frankin had many points of view:

"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."
-Benjamin Franklin

What most of these left wing nuts don't like to admit is FASCISTS ARE LEFT WING NUT SOCIALISTS JUST LIKE THE SOVIETS WERE LEFT WING NUT SOCIALISTS. The difference? Fascist governments only controlled production, distribution and price where as the Soviets OWNED the production, distribution and prices. Somehow those fools have convinced themselves that Fascism is evil and "socialism" is good. Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Even Ben Franklin got some things wrong if you believe that.

yes, my God, that's just what we need: some liberal Nazi deciding what's superfluous and stealing it from us at the point of a gun!!!!

Thankfully Frankin had many points of view:

"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."
-Benjamin Franklin

What most of these left wing nuts don't like to admit is FASCISTS ARE LEFT WING NUT SOCIALISTS JUST LIKE THE SOVIETS WERE LEFT WING NUT SOCIALISTS. The difference? Fascist governments only controlled production, distribution and price where as the Soviets OWNED the production, distribution and prices. Somehow those fools have convinced themselves that Fascism is evil and "socialism" is good. Nothing could be further from the truth.

yes, the liberal shows his Nazi fascist tendencies when he wants govt to decide which of our material possessions are superfluous to our lives and then take them away at the point of a gun!

 

[dnsmith35]

YOU prefer not to use reason, logic or history,

Unlike you, I only use reason, logic and history instead of the propaganda you pull off of radical web sites.

you like most right wing conservatives (BLUE DOGS) go on 'feelings' and rhetoric of pulling ones self up by his bootstraps. Ever actually try it? Why can't many do it in China, Mexico, India, etc? Just lazy huh?

One reason the 3rd world workers can't do it comes from their being held down with socialist concepts and too much government control which does not allow it.

Yes, contrary to you, I do have feelings, and being a liberal without borders I believe in the humanity of man all over the world, not just the US where even our least wealthy people live better than most of the 3rd world (with the minor exceptions of some homeless people who are mostly disabled, mentally or physically) It behooves us to start with that small minority in the US and they help those equally poor all over the world before doing more for our "relative poor" in the US.

You know conservative economics is a failure when they have to keep reminding us how much better our poor is than the poor in 3rd world countries!

It is because I am liberal, and a humanist, I believe we owe assistance to all the people who are poverty stricken, starting with the most poor first.

 

[dnsmith35]

Oh I think MANY dictators are bad guys, weird how Reagan supported Saddam BEFORE we decided he was 'bad' though. How many other nations are you libertarians going to want to overthrow BECAUSE they are bad guys?

The issue wasn't whether he was a bad guy. The issue was whether he was a threat to the Western World, and he definitely was. He was as much of a threat as Adolph Hitler was.

lol, 'small gubrmnt' libertarian..

Fucking moron

The only moron on the thread is you dumbo 2 three. And I doubt you do any fxxxing any more.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

You know conservative economics is a failure when they have to keep reminding us how much better our poor is than the poor in 3rd world countries!

why, if the poor here are 100 times richer than in Africa?? Do you ever try to think before you post? Do you want to be a liberal all your life?

 

[dnsmith35]

You know conservative economics is a failure when they have to keep reminding us how much better our poor is than the poor in 3rd world countries!

why, if the poor here are 100 times richer than in Africa?? Do you ever try to think before you post? Do you want to be a liberal all your life?

Ed, there are left wing fanatics who call themselves liberal and there are just liberals. The former, like dumbo2three are only liberal when it comes to Union members and other special groups IN THE US alone. They, like dumbo2three, don't give a crap about the poor people in the rest of the world, no matter how much worse off than our relative poor.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

A libertarian who wants to control other nations. I'm shocked, no really I am

You didn't answer the question, nimrod.

Oh I think MANY dictators are bad guys, weird how Reagan supported Saddam BEFORE we decided he was 'bad' though. How many other nations are you libertarians going to want to overthrow BECAUSE they are bad guys?

dear, Saddam was always bad but he neutralized Iran much the way Stalin neutralized HItler. Are you able to understand?

 

[dnsmith35]

why, if the poor here are 100 times richer than in Africa?? Do you ever try to think before you post? Do you want to be a liberal all your life?

It is nothing but ignorance. He doesn't give a damned about people of the third world. He is selfish and greedy and wants to hoard the "good life" only to US citizens.

The left wing extremists use all sorts of straw man arguments: They emit too much pollution, or, they are paid slave wages (based on how far they would go in the US) which will buy food for the workers family and a roof over their heads.

What the LWrs refuse to acknowledge is, with jobs comes security; with security comes labor revolution; with a labor revolution comes better pay, benefits, and on job safety. How else can to 3rd world workers EVER gain a decent life style if we keep hoarding the jobs?