Morality of Wealth Redistribution

[dblack]

I'm an anarchist, not a small government libertarian. However, libertarians don't argue that we should never use our military. Under what circumstance do you believe it's justifiable to use military force?

State coercion is a valid tool whenever you want someone to do something and they're just being a stubborn jerk about it. As long as you got the votes.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

How else can to 3rd world workers EVER gain a decent life style if we keep hoarding the jobs?

I don't think hoarding is the right word. China can have all the jobs it needs without international trade. Yes, with international trade comes more competition and more rapid development but we did fine before China and China could do fine with us. Jobs are not ours to hoard. Make sense?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

State coercion is a valid tool whenever you want someone to do something and they're just being a stubborn jerk about it. As long as you got the votes.

when its kill or be killed, like when the Nazis are attacking, thats a good time for the military!!

 

[dnsmith35]

I don't think hoarding is the right word. China can have all the jobs it needs without international trade. Yes, with international trade comes more competition and more rapid development but we did fine before China and China could do fine with us. Jobs are not ours to hoard. Make sense?

China is but one country. In spite of the fact as proved by studies, off shoring does not cause a loss of jobs in the US. To a thinking person, hoarding may not sound like the right word, but when discussing the issue with dumbo2three, that is exactly what he wants, such that the rest of the world could just go to hell and back. "Offshoring creates as many U.S. jobs as it kills, study says." <a href=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ring-creates-as-many-u-s-jobs-as-it-kills/</>

 

[Friends]

Very interesting topic...

Not really. People are simply expressing their attitudes. What interests me are facts and insights.

 

[hipeter924]

Libertarianism is one of those things that sounds good when you read about it in high school, or maybe your first year of college.

Reminds me of the guy that kept digging into me over non-state ideologies on this forum, to the point I figured I might as well combine ideas from Anarcho-Capitalism and Anarchist-Communism (knowing he got into rage whenever I equated one with the other). But I like to push libertarians into explaining why they only go half way rather than advocating eliminating the 'state' or 'private' problem altogether.

 

[kaz]

when its kill or be killed, like when the Nazis are attacking, thats a good time for the military!!

The point was about wealth redistribution, try to keep up...

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

, but when discussing the issue with dumbo2three, that is exactly what he wants, such that the rest of the world could just go to hell and back.

well true enough a liberal will lack the IQ to understand trade. According to their logic the USA does not benefit from trade with China and Connecticut does not benefit from trade with Mississippi. Its 100% stupid and 100 lliberal.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Reminds me of the guy that kept digging into me over non-state ideologies on this forum, to the point I figured I might as well combine ideas from Anarcho-Capitalism and Anarchist-Communism (knowing he got into rage whenever I equated one with the other). But I like to push libertarians into explaining why they only go half way rather than advocating eliminating the 'state' or 'private' problem altogether.

libertarians like our Founders were not anarchists and so had some limited use for government. Do you understand now?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

"Offshoring creates as many U.S. jobs as it kills, study says."

well it would depend on the circumstances. If China instantly switches to capitalism at 5% the American wage it would suck millions of jobs away instantly. I see no reason to believe new jobs will be created here as fast as the old ones are sucked away to China.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I'm an anarchist, not a small government libertarian. However, libertarians don't argue that we should never use our military. Under what circumstance do you believe it's justifiable to use military force?

when its life and death, like when the Nazis are attacking!

 

[kaz]

well it would depend on the circumstances. If China instantly switches to capitalism at 5% the American wage it would suck millions of jobs away instantly. I see no reason to believe new jobs will be created here as fast as the old ones are sucked away to China.

Well, when you say "as fast" that's a speed question, but offshoring is great for our economy, so it does create jobs here because of that. Three big ones.

1) Consumers save by paying less for the same thing and have $$$ to buy other things

2) Jobs are created directly in the US as processes change, they don't just get moved offshore. What is produced needs to be managed, distributed, shipped, ...

3) US companies are competing with foreign companies that are offshoring, so we are protecting US jobs by protecting US companies.

 

[kaz]

when its kill or be killed, like when the Nazis are attacking, thats a good time for the military!!

Any question you ask bripat about how anarchy works, he answers with the assumption that we have everything else we have now and only the one thing you asked him about is different. He's a hand waiver like every other anarchist I've ever known, he can't remotely describe it. Just pretend we have everything except one thing at a time and he'll explain why we don't need government for that one thing.

Don't get me wrong, he's a good guy, and when you stay beyond limited government, he makes a lot of great arguments. It's just crossing from limited to no government he's got no idea, but he knows it will work.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Well, when you say "as fast" that's a speed question, .

yes its a speed question meaning that if China and India have 2 billion workers at $1.00 an hour they can be sucking our jobs away for 100 years before we rebalance.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

1) Consumers save by paying less for the same thing and have $$$ to buy other things
.

which is no help if the other things are also made more cheaply in China and India!!

 

[kaz]

yes its a speed question meaning that if China and India have 2 billion workers at $1.00 an hour they can be sucking our jobs away for 100 years before we rebalance.

So you actually think that when American consumers spend less to buy the same thing, that harms us? LOL, sure it does.

So when you were planning to buy a toaster for $50, and wow, you got one for $30, you take the $20 out of your wallet and set it on fire?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

2) Jobs are created directly in the US as processes change, they don't just get moved offshore. What is produced needs to be managed, distributed, shipped, ...

.

yes but what was produced in the USA needed to be managed too so I see no net gain if Chinese/Indian production needs to be managed too

 

[kaz]

yes its a speed question meaning that if China and India have 2 billion workers at $1.00 an hour they can be sucking our jobs away for 100 years before we rebalance.

So you actually think that when American consumers spend less to buy the same thing, that harms us? LOL, sure it does.

So when you were planning to buy a toaster for $50, and wow, you got one for $30, you take the $20 out of your wallet and set it on fire? I'm not spending it! I was planning to pay that!

And when American companies can't outsource because our government blocks it, and their foreign competition is, that doesn't harm jobs?

LOL, fear may sell in politics, but your economics is just funky. Oh, and wrong...

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

3) we are protecting US jobs by protecting US companies.

no idea what that means

 

[kaz]

yes but what was produced in the USA needed to be managed too so I see no net gain if Chinese/Indian production needs to be managed too

Some yes, some no. I'm not just talking about managing the workers, I'm talking about managing the process. Offshoring IT isn't just negative jobs, it changes jobs. And typically the higher paying ones are here. And there are more of them.

Fear, fear, oh fear. The Democrats love you, man. Fear is their chief product. #2 is greed.