More Americans killed by guns than all the wars we have ever fought

[Avatar4321]

More Americans have been killed by guns since 1968, than have been killed in all the wars the United States has ever fought.

1,171,177 killed in all the wars we have ever fought.

1,384,171 killed by guns in the United States since 1968.

PolitiFact | PBS commentator Mark Shields says more killed by guns since '68 than in all U.S. wars

The average is 2/3rds are suicide.

Suicide with a gun, Einstein. People are lazy, even when they just want to kill themselves instead of someone else. So they reach for a gun. Now Timothy McVeigh, there's an inventive, industrious and imaginative killer. Charles Manson, he too stood out from the crowd by manipulating minds rather than bullets and chambers.

So what would happen if we forced the vast majority of these others, the lazy people, to have to do something besides just go out and buy a gun? Hmmmmm.....perhaps lives would be spared.

They would buy rope, pills, knives, or just walk out in front of a car. Seems to me that all those are easier, if not easier than buying a gun. You need a gun permit and a background check for the gun. The others, not so much.

You think people who killed themselves wouldn't have killed themselves if they had to do it a different way? That's foolish. People who are lazy wouldn't kill themselves with a gun any more than they would kill themselves with another method. They would simply bitch and moan about life, grab some ice cream and kill themselves slowly with food.

None of that changes the fact that pretending self inflicted wounds from guns should be considered in gun violence reports.

 

[RDD_1210]

God gave man the death penalty and also hates abortion. Obamaturds stimulus is nothing but rewarding his backers. Liberalism is a mental disorder, libtards prove it all the time. You like most libtards are way off on this, but keep trying, the comedy is entertaining.

Is this serious?

Educate yourself on the matters of God and you wont have to ask.

I know everything I need to know about "god". Educate yourself on the matters of reality not imaginary guys in the sky.

I can't believe this is an actual topic of debate with a seemingly grown adult. Why don't you school me on the teachings of the tooth fairy, bigfoot and the poltergeist while you're at it.

LOL. I almost feel bad debating you loons.

 

[Avatar4321]

If you own a gun, you or a member of your family is seven times more likely to die of gun violence. Why? Because a gun in the house is much more likely to be used by an angry spouse or depressed teenager to kill themselves or others, than it is to be used for self defense.

Nancy Lanza found this out when her son killed her and two dozen school children in Newtown.

People who drive cras are more likely to die in car accidents. According to your "logic" we should ban cars too.

Wow, right over your head. But then again you believe in god, so rational thought and critical analysis aren't in your repertoire.

As I've said before Atheism is irrational. Theism of any kind can be both rational and irrational depending on the person. But Im not surprised you are making that claim. You don't want to consider the possibility you are wrong. Therefore, everyone else must be. Which is a difference between us. Im always looking for more information and correcting myself when I find discrepencies.

BTW, my response to Chris was an analogy. I used the same reasoning he did in another situation to demonstrate how the reasoning is flawed. It's not exactly an uncommon practice. since you didn't bother addressing the analogy or providing any analysis of your own but had to resort to childish character attacks, im going to guess you're just projecting your inadequacies onto others.

 

[Spoonman]

Is this serious?

Educate yourself on the matters of God and you wont have to ask.

I know everything I need to know about "god". Educate yourself on the matters of reality not imaginary guys in the sky.

I can't believe this is an actual topic of debate with a seemingly grown adult. Why don't you school me on the teachings of the tooth fairy, bigfoot and the poltergeist while you're at it.

LOL. I almost feel bad debating you loons.

you have proof god doesn't exist? Science has proof god doesn't exist? I didn't think so

 

[Spoonman]

Telling people that "I'm sorry your child had to be shot today, but thats the cost we need to pay in order to maintain our freedom" is ok? How jesus-like of you.

yea yea, i'm sorry you kid was killled in a car accident, i'm sorry your kid died eating a peanut, i'm sorry your kid was abused by a baby sitter, i'm sorry your kid died of a drug overdose. get over it. you may want to live in a bubble, the rest of us won't. guns are here to stay. legal or illegal, they aren't going anywhere. deal with it

Waaaah, cry about it more? Please. You've been trounced repeatedly in this thread so you've resulted to crying. You must have done well in life. Crying your way through when you have nothing else.

mmmmmm you're the one crying dude. whaaaaaaah - big bad guns, make them go away. it isn't happening. learn to deal with it

 

[Avatar4321]

Selfish gun owners will not listen to reason. If they did we would have much fewer selfish gun owners.

big government progressives wont listen to reason. If they did, we'd have less dead children.

See, I can do it too. mine is just accurate.

Although it's not. Because a fetus isn't a child. Sorry to burst your bubble.

How does it feel to have pretty much everything you stand for be wrong? I mean everything.

First, I didn't mention abortion or a fetus. The very fact that when I said children, you imediately thought of a fetus tells me that, at least, subconciously you think the exact opposite of what you said. You know that a "fetus" is a child.

Second, I have no clue what it feels like to have pretty much everything I stand for be wrong. Im not you. And there is no way I can ever be you.

 

[Wehrwolfen]

Measuring the Probability of Homicide

Analysts in The Heritage Foundation's Center for Data Analysis (CDA) used data on homicide deaths from the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control (CDC) to examine the continuing impact of high murder rates on urban minority communities during the 1990s.

To begin measuring the human impact of homicide within these communities, the Heritage analysts calculated the average probability that a 15-year-old black male would be murdered before reaching his 45th birthday in the eight above-listed urban counties with large African-American populations.

Despite the recent reductions in Crime rates across the nation, African-American males in each of these eight urban areas continue to face an extremely high probability of being killed before they reach middle age. (See Chart 1.) For example:
■
Based on 1998 murder rates, approximately one in every 12 black 15-year-old males who live in Washington, D.C., can expect to be murdered before reaching age 45.

■
For Brooklyn, the major urban community with the lowest 1998 homicide rates for young black males, roughly one in every 53 black 15-year-old males will die from homicide before reaching their 45th birthday.

■By contrast, based on the 1998 murder rates, the average 15-year-old U.S. male faces a very low one-in-185 probability of being murdered before reaching age 45. Nationally, a similarly aged black male faces an average probability of one in 45 that he will die from homicide before reaching age 45. An average white male faces a one-in-345 probability of being murdered before reaching age 45.

A Risk Worse than Military Combat? An analysis of historical data shows that, despite different time spans, serving in the U.S. military during wartime may be preferable to living in some urban communities today.8
■
The average probability of being murdered in 1998 before reaching age 45 for a young black male ranged from 8.47 percent in Washington, D.C., to 1.89 percent in Brooklyn.

■By comparison, the death rate for U.S. soldiers serving in the military during World War II was 2.5 percent; during World War I, it was 2.4 percent; and during the Vietnam War, 1.2 percent of those who served in the military were killed.

Strictly speaking, these military death rates are not comparable to the rate for young black males in urban communities because they were endured over much shorter periods of time; but they do illustrate the magnitude of the risk faced by African-American males in these eight communities today.

Uneven Rates
Although the overall U.S. male homicide rate declined by almost 35 percent from 1991 to 1998, not all U.S. cities benefited to the same degree from this general reduction. (See Chart 2.) During the 1991 to 1998 period, black males between the ages of 15 and 45 in the District of Columbia and the New Orleans area still faced particularly high probabilities of dying from homicide.
■
From 1991 to 1998, the homicide mortality rate fell from 10.2 percent to 8.5 percent in Washington, D.C., and from 10.4 percent to 7.1 percent in New Orleans.

■Most dramatically, while Baltimore City had the second lowest homicide rate for black males in 1991 among the eight communities in this analysis, by 1998 its murder rate had actually risen to the second highest rank behind Washington, D.C.

Read more:
Young African-American Males: Continuing Victims of High Homicide Rates in Urban Communities

Please note: There was no differentiation in the methods of the killings.

 

[Avatar4321]

Telling people that "I'm sorry your child had to be shot today, but thats the cost we need to pay in order to maintain our freedom" is ok? How jesus-like of you.

I wouldn't tell a parent that. Only a complete moron would even conceive of saying something like that. But then that's probably why you created the straw man. Because you have to pretend your political opponents are stupid and convince others of that since you are incapable to actually argue the issues to any success. The solution to that problem would be to learn how to argue more logically or get better positions, but I know it's much easier to just make straw men.

I am just not so heartless as to lie to a parent and tell them there child would be alright strip people of their right to self defense and empower politicians and bureaucrats. You see, I realize that the solutions to societies problems will come from empowering individuals and helping them see if they take more responsibility for their own lives and problems instead of outsourcing that responsibility to the government and politicians who will lie to get power over them, that they will be much happier in life and face fewer problems.

But I know you are afraid. Youd much rather have the government make your choices and take care of your safety, health, etc, then take responsibility of yourself.

 

[Avatar4321]

If you own a gun, you or a member of your family is seven times more likely to die of gun violence. Why? Because a gun in the house is much more likely to be used by an angry spouse or depressed teenager to kill themselves or others, than it is to be used for self defense.

Nancy Lanza found this out when her son killed her and 20 school children in Newtown.

You realize that repeating stupid things doesn't suddenly make it less stupid, right?

LOL funny coming from you.

Actually the funny thing is that you think your comment is smart.

 

[Wehrwolfen]

Measuring the Probability of Homicide

Analysts in The Heritage Foundation's Center for Data Analysis (CDA) used data on homicide deaths from the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control (CDC) to examine the continuing impact of high murder rates on urban minority communities during the 1990s.

To begin measuring the human impact of homicide within these communities, the Heritage analysts calculated the average probability that a 15-year-old black male would be murdered before reaching his 45th birthday in the eight above-listed urban counties with large African-American populations.

Despite the recent reductions in Crime rates across the nation, African-American males in each of these eight urban areas continue to face an extremely high probability of being killed before they reach middle age. (See Chart 1.) For example:
■
Based on 1998 murder rates, approximately one in every 12 black 15-year-old males who live in Washington, D.C., can expect to be murdered before reaching age 45.

■
For Brooklyn, the major urban community with the lowest 1998 homicide rates for young black males, roughly one in every 53 black 15-year-old males will die from homicide before reaching their 45th birthday.

■By contrast, based on the 1998 murder rates, the average 15-year-old U.S. male faces a very low one-in-185 probability of being murdered before reaching age 45. Nationally, a similarly aged black male faces an average probability of one in 45 that he will die from homicide before reaching age 45. An average white male faces a one-in-345 probability of being murdered before reaching age 45.

A Risk Worse than Military Combat? An analysis of historical data shows that, despite different time spans, serving in the U.S. military during wartime may be preferable to living in some urban communities today.8
■
The average probability of being murdered in 1998 before reaching age 45 for a young black male ranged from 8.47 percent in Washington, D.C., to 1.89 percent in Brooklyn.

■By comparison, the death rate for U.S. soldiers serving in the military during World War II was 2.5 percent; during World War I, it was 2.4 percent; and during the Vietnam War, 1.2 percent of those who served in the military were killed.

Strictly speaking, these military death rates are not comparable to the rate for young black males in urban communities because they were endured over much shorter periods of time; but they do illustrate the magnitude of the risk faced by African-American males in these eight communities today.

Uneven Rates
Although the overall U.S. male homicide rate declined by almost 35 percent from 1991 to 1998, not all U.S. cities benefited to the same degree from this general reduction. (See Chart 2.) During the 1991 to 1998 period, black males between the ages of 15 and 45 in the District of Columbia and the New Orleans area still faced particularly high probabilities of dying from homicide.
■
From 1991 to 1998, the homicide mortality rate fell from 10.2 percent to 8.5 percent in Washington, D.C., and from 10.4 percent to 7.1 percent in New Orleans.

■Most dramatically, while Baltimore City had the second lowest homicide rate for black males in 1991 among the eight communities in this analysis, by 1998 its murder rate had actually risen to the second highest rank behind Washington, D.C.

Read more:
Young African-American Males: Continuing Victims of High Homicide Rates in Urban Communities

Please note: There was no differentiation in the methods of the killings.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Why Are So Many Young Black Men Being Murdered? : NPR

www.npr.org › News

Dec 30, 2008 · Why Are So Many Young Black Men Being Murdered ... The study showed that the number of black murder victims rose by more than 31 percent from 2000 …



Ten years later: Black-on-black violent crime rate rises

www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/news_archives/Ten-years-later:-Black-on...

... you almost always commit murder within your racial ... In 2011, it's only 30 percent. Three out of 10 ... do these kids have any chance at all?'" asked ...



Murders by Black Teenagers Rise, Bucking a Trend - NYTimes.com

www.nytimes.com/2008/12/29/us/29homicide.html

Dec 29, 2008 · The murder rate among black teenagers has climbed since 2000 even as murders by young whites have scarcely grown or declined in some places, …

 

[Avatar4321]

Is this serious?

Educate yourself on the matters of God and you wont have to ask.

I know everything I need to know about "god". Educate yourself on the matters of reality not imaginary guys in the sky.

I can't believe this is an actual topic of debate with a seemingly grown adult. Why don't you school me on the teachings of the tooth fairy, bigfoot and the poltergeist while you're at it.

LOL. I almost feel bad debating you loons.

If that was true, you wouldn't be asking questions like that would you?

You don't know God. You don't know a thing about Him. And you don't care. But just because you are ignorant doesn't mean you are right. In fact, it means quite the opposite. But I know, you pride yourself on the fact that you dont know jack about God.

God is real. Your ignorance of Him doesn't change that. Your absolute laziness in not even trying to learn about Him doesn't change that. And you want to know something amazing? Despite your absolute disregard for Him, He still loves you. He still wants you to be blessed. He still gave His life for you.

And when the time is right, God will reach out to you and give you a choice. You can choose to remain in ignorance or you can learn. You can educate yourself and be educated by the Spirit. I hope that when that choice comes to you, you make the right one.

I feel sorry about the pain that will be coming in your life without a change. The proud will be humbled. We can either choose to be humble or we will be humbled by events that will happen in our lives. You are an adult. It's time to stop acting like a child.

 

[RDD_1210]

People who drive cras are more likely to die in car accidents. According to your "logic" we should ban cars too.

Wow, right over your head. But then again you believe in god, so rational thought and critical analysis aren't in your repertoire.

As I've said before Atheism is irrational. Theism of any kind can be both rational and irrational depending on the person. But Im not surprised you are making that claim. You don't want to consider the possibility you are wrong. Therefore, everyone else must be. Which is a difference between us. Im always looking for more information and correcting myself when I find discrepencies.

BTW, my response to Chris was an analogy. I used the same reasoning he did in another situation to demonstrate how the reasoning is flawed. It's not exactly an uncommon practice. since you didn't bother addressing the analogy or providing any analysis of your own but had to resort to childish character attacks, im going to guess you're just projecting your inadequacies onto others.

You're always looking for more information??!?! Did you really just say that?? Holy shit that's amazing.

And your ridiculous "argument" around cars has been debunked 100000 times already. There are plenty of laws making cars safer and tightening restrictions on what a car must have in order to be sold. The reason no one is looking to ban them is because there is a very important functions for automobiles that doesn't revolve around killing. The same can not be said for guns. The fact that this has to be explained to you is proof enough that you are not open minded or a rational person.

Debate me on the existence of god. Show me how open minded you are.

 

[RDD_1210]

Educate yourself on the matters of God and you wont have to ask.

I know everything I need to know about "god". Educate yourself on the matters of reality not imaginary guys in the sky.

I can't believe this is an actual topic of debate with a seemingly grown adult. Why don't you school me on the teachings of the tooth fairy, bigfoot and the poltergeist while you're at it.

LOL. I almost feel bad debating you loons.

you have proof god doesn't exist? Science has proof god doesn't exist? I didn't think so

Definitive proof? Of course not. Multiple indicators that lead me to a very well informed hypothesis? Absolutely.

And certainly way more proof than can be presented that God does exist.

Anything is possible, I can recognize that, but the existence of a god, any sort of entity is waaaaaaaay down on the list in terms of probability.

 

[emilynghiem]

More Americans have been killed by guns since 1968, than have been killed in all the wars the United States has ever fought.

1,171,177 killed in all the wars we have ever fought.

1,384,171 killed by guns in the United States since 1968.

PolitiFact | PBS commentator Mark Shields says more killed by guns since '68 than in all U.S. wars

How many people were killed by guns because they were committing crimes?
And how many lives were saved because someone had a gun
and didn't even need to use it so nobody got hurt?

If you are going to go after generalizations,
and not after what actually CAUSES people to kill or commit crimes,
why don't you just blame all "men" for fighting more wars, killing more people,
and committing more rapes and violence with or without weapons than women do.

Should we ban all men? From running free on the planet, based on statistics?
Or go after the CAUSE of war, rapes, violence, killing and crime?

 

[RDD_1210]

yea yea, i'm sorry you kid was killled in a car accident, i'm sorry your kid died eating a peanut, i'm sorry your kid was abused by a baby sitter, i'm sorry your kid died of a drug overdose. get over it. you may want to live in a bubble, the rest of us won't. guns are here to stay. legal or illegal, they aren't going anywhere. deal with it

Waaaah, cry about it more? Please. You've been trounced repeatedly in this thread so you've resulted to crying. You must have done well in life. Crying your way through when you have nothing else.

mmmmmm you're the one crying dude. whaaaaaaah - big bad guns, make them go away. it isn't happening. learn to deal with it

Do you always cry when you can't come up with a response to obvious evidence that contradicts everything you believe in?

 

[RDD_1210]

big government progressives wont listen to reason. If they did, we'd have less dead children.

See, I can do it too. mine is just accurate.

Although it's not. Because a fetus isn't a child. Sorry to burst your bubble.

How does it feel to have pretty much everything you stand for be wrong? I mean everything.

First, I didn't mention abortion or a fetus. The very fact that when I said children, you imediately thought of a fetus tells me that, at least, subconciously you think the exact opposite of what you said. You know that a "fetus" is a child.

Second, I have no clue what it feels like to have pretty much everything I stand for be wrong. Im not you. And there is no way I can ever be you.

You'd have to be rational and open to honest discussion to understand what it's like to be me. But you're none of those things and could never be so lucky to be me. I'm not perfect but I sure as shit happy that I am able to use my brain way more effectively than you ever have.

 

[Spoonman]

Although it's not. Because a fetus isn't a child. Sorry to burst your bubble.

How does it feel to have pretty much everything you stand for be wrong? I mean everything.

First, I didn't mention abortion or a fetus. The very fact that when I said children, you imediately thought of a fetus tells me that, at least, subconciously you think the exact opposite of what you said. You know that a "fetus" is a child.

Second, I have no clue what it feels like to have pretty much everything I stand for be wrong. Im not you. And there is no way I can ever be you.

You'd have to be rational and open to honest discussion to understand what it's like to be me. But you're none of those things and could never be so lucky to be me. I'm not perfect but I sure as shit happy that I am able to use my brain way more effectively than you ever have.

you're all angry and whiny. no one wants to be like you.

 

[Avatar4321]

you have proof god doesn't exist? Science has proof god doesn't exist? I didn't think so

No. He doesn't. Which is why atheism is so illogical. Atheists assert knowledge that God doesn't exist. The only way to know that God doesn't exist would be to exist everywhere in and out of the universe simultaneously while at the same time being both in and out of time itselt. In other words, they would need to be a god to know there is no god.

Instead, they make arguments from silence. They haven't had experiences with God, therefore, there is no God. Illogical at best. Arrogant at its worst.

Agnostics have the superior argument. They dont know whether there is or isnt a God. Their problem comes when they start asserting that there is no way to know whether there is a God. Problem is there is.

Believers, one the other hand, can know there is a God. They know the same way they know anything else. They have an experience with one of their five senses. If I see God, I know there is one. If I hear Him, I know there is one. If I feel Him, I know there is one. (Ill forgo the last two and focus on the primary three for practical reasons).

That is why believers rely on eye witness testimony. Their own and the testimony of others to share the message God has for the world. Becaues the only way to convince others is for the others to have their own experiences with Him.

I didn't always know there was a God. There was a time I merely concluded that if there was a God and He wanted me to know He was there, He could let me know somehow. It was only after I recieved the revelations I did from the Holy Spirit that I knew there was a God. It was a very humbling experience. I've seen miracles since then. Ive experienced miracles myself. So I know God is there. And I know He loves us because I've felt His love. I know He loves everyone

Science doesn't deny that there is a god either. In fact, I find science as a strength to my testimony that there is a God. Understand the complex and delicat natures of the human body, for example, demonstrate the actions of a loving Father and not just mere happenstance. The fact that there are laws that govern the Universe testifies to me that there is a lawgiver who established those laws.

There are some that scorn and mock. but their arguments are shallow. Their logic based on false premises. They resort to straw men and have to mischaracterize or lie about their opponents beliefs. That tells me they either dont know what the believers they are talking to actually believe or are trying to intentionally decieve others. Either way, that's not something you have to do when you have the truth on your side.

 

[RDD_1210]

First, I didn't mention abortion or a fetus. The very fact that when I said children, you imediately thought of a fetus tells me that, at least, subconciously you think the exact opposite of what you said. You know that a "fetus" is a child.

Second, I have no clue what it feels like to have pretty much everything I stand for be wrong. Im not you. And there is no way I can ever be you.

You'd have to be rational and open to honest discussion to understand what it's like to be me. But you're none of those things and could never be so lucky to be me. I'm not perfect but I sure as shit happy that I am able to use my brain way more effectively than you ever have.

you're all angry and whiny. no one wants to be like you.

Let me know when you're ready to get trounced again.

 

[emilynghiem]

As I've said before Atheism is irrational. Theism of any kind can be both rational and irrational depending on the person. But Im not surprised you are making that claim. You don't want to consider the possibility you are wrong. Therefore, everyone else must be. Which is a differencainste between us. Im always looking for more

Hi Avatar: If by Atheism you mean people who are anti-Theist, I agree that is reactionary and inconsistent, to blame being against the fauls of theism as reasons for being Atheist.

However, I do have friends who are completely rational, forgiving and compassionate for others inclusively, but who simply do NOT view the world in terms of a personified God or Theist perspective. They have nothing against those who do, but don't see it that way, and don't agree with any form of oppression concerning theist or nontheist views.

I hold them at the same level of rationality and consistency as theists who do believe in God but aren't sure either if all people will agree to cooperate and work together.

So they do not exclude theist views any more or less than theists who exclude atheist views.
We all have biases and trouble forgiving different groups we perceive have done harm,
but I see this equally in theists and nontheists, as well as equal denial or equal forgiveness.