More Proof the skeptics are WINNING!!

[ScienceRocks]

Westwall,

You'd think the noaa could afford to do those kinds of experiments and film it.

 

[skookerasbil]

LOL.....meanwhile, look at all the k00k bomb thrower threads in here.......gone in a day or two = fAiL.


Nobody cares.

 

[polarbear]

It`s not the planet that matters to these freaks, they have a problem with democracy:

Here is what you get for "Christiana Figueres AND communism"
Let me google that for you

UN climate chief: Communism is best to fight global warming

United Nations climate chief Christiana Figueres said that democracy is a poor political system for fighting global warming. Communist China, she says, is the best model.

She is also advocating :
BBC News - Get your cash out of fossil fuel backed funds says UN climate chief

Get your cash out of fossil fuel backed funds says UN climate chief


Christiana Figueres has called on investors to pull their money out of fossil fuel linked funds.
She said institutional investors would be in blatant breach of their fiduciary duty if they ignored the "clear scientific evidence".
Ms Figueres said that they should put their money into green assets instead.

And that we start riding bamboo bikes:

UN climate head Christiana Figueres gets on her bamboo bike at negotiations in Warsaw last year

Here is the speech she gave on Nov 29th 2010:

United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change

Christiana Figueres, executive secretary of the U.N. Framework Convention on Climate Change, gave the opening statement before delegates from 193 countries gathered in Cancun, Mexico on November 29, 2010 by invoking the ancient jaguar goddess Ixchel, noting that Ixchel was not only goddess of the moon, but also "the goddess of reason, creativity and weaving. May she inspire you – because today, you are gathered in Cancun to weave together the elements of a solid response to climate change, using both reason and creativity as your tools." She went on to say to the delegates, "Excellencies, the goddess Ixchel would probably tell you that a tapestry is the result of the skilful interlacing of many threads,"

You`ve got to be a total libtard not to crack up laughing in view of all this lunacy...
No wonder that most of the Western countries stayed away from the IPCC conventions since 2010,.. or just send minor officials that have no decision making authority.

 

[flacaltenn]

It`s not the planet that matters to these freaks, they have a problem with democracy:

Here is what you get for "Christiana Figueres AND communism"
Let me google that for you

UN climate chief: Communism is best to fight global warming

United Nations climate chief Christiana Figueres said that democracy is a poor political system for fighting global warming. Communist China, she says, is the best model.

She is also advocating :
BBC News - Get your cash out of fossil fuel backed funds says UN climate chief

Get your cash out of fossil fuel backed funds says UN climate chief


Christiana Figueres has called on investors to pull their money out of fossil fuel linked funds.
She said institutional investors would be in blatant breach of their fiduciary duty if they ignored the "clear scientific evidence".
Ms Figueres said that they should put their money into green assets instead.

And that we start riding bamboo bikes:

UN climate head Christiana Figueres gets on her bamboo bike at negotiations in Warsaw last year

Here is the speech she gave on Nov 29th 2010:

United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change

Christiana Figueres, executive secretary of the U.N. Framework Convention on Climate Change, gave the opening statement before delegates from 193 countries gathered in Cancun, Mexico on November 29, 2010 by invoking the ancient jaguar goddess Ixchel, noting that Ixchel was not only goddess of the moon, but also "the goddess of reason, creativity and weaving. May she inspire you – because today, you are gathered in Cancun to weave together the elements of a solid response to climate change, using both reason and

creativity as your tools." She went on to say to the delegates, "Excellencies, the goddess Ixchel would probably tell you that a tapestry is the result of the skilful interlacing of many threads,"

You`ve got to be a total libtard not to crack up laughing in view of all this lunacy...
No wonder that most of the Western countries stayed away from the IPCC conventions since 2010,.. or just send minor officials that have no decision making authority.

Ive bookmarked that post. Its now Exhibit A for the extreme whackiness of the IPCC circus. I had no idea she was that far short of a brain.. If Skooks wants to boost the ratings of this thread, give us more of her.. And tell me how to sign up for everything this crazy person says. If you read The Onion , PBear --- you couldnt tell the diff between that reality and one of their articles..

 

[flacaltenn]

Although some of these are hysterically funny..

I like the "Due to Gwarming, Eskimos lose 7% of their words for snow"

The Onion - America's Finest News Source

 

[gnarlylove]

You're not getting the concept that its dark at night and SOLAR would only power California for 6 or 8 hrs a day..

solar-generated power unavailable at times -- like at night, when power demand is greatest.
The solution is a simple one: Store the sun's energy so you can use it when the sun's not available. Unfortunately, implementing that solution has been extremely problematic -- until a recent breakthrough made solar-energy storage a realistic option for the energy industry.

In this article, we'll find out how it's possible to efficiently store the power in sunshine so we can access it when the sun sets. We'll also look at the first commercial power plant built to use the technology to find out how the system works.

From HowStuffWorks "Is there a way to get solar energy at night?" I didn't need to read it but it sounds like you do. You keep having a conceptual block that it's impossible and it is but there are ways around it like I've been repeating: store the excess. Not very hard to get but when you have a conceptual blocker like your morning meds, it's understandable and thus I forgive you. Normally I don't engage on a personal level, and it is strictly for humor, but you demand it by throwing mud at me and using words like unicorns.

Your crappy source of reading material doesnt get a pass to change the meanings of common phrases..

You make me laugh. As if words are so concrete that you can break my back by smacking me hard....at least you're trying. It seems so much depends on a simple phrase. So allow me to be gentlemanly and apologize for using such a politically charged word, it was due to my naivety. So allow me to use a different word as you clean the sand out of your vagina. The context of the word is: a sunny state COULD build enough solar and other renewables to fill in the gap so that the state has little to no use for fossil fuels. I'm arguing this in principle, not as a policy for tomorrow. The potential is there and that is my WHOLE POINT.

Let me be clear: I am not encouraging building such a system tomorrow, but someday it will be quite feasible and will indubitably replace fossil fuels as they continue to rise in efficiency and new discoveries are made. My conclusion is merely the watts can be generated in certain regions, in princple, to end the need for fossil fuels. It would be too large and inefficient to fund in 2014, but as time goes on it will become a project Americans will build--whether out of necessity or choice is a different matter and time frame.

Solar is an OLD tecnology. Panels are now a commodity item..

I can see no good reason to mention this. It bears no relevancy and I started this solar debate by posting how solar has improved in efficency since its inception in the early 70s. Please don't just say your inept history lesson just because it makes you look like you are educated and know so much about the issue. I don't doubt you know SOMETHING, but trying to teach me about an irrelevant history lesson just stinks. The reason I point this out is because it seems to be the substance of your posts: posting facts/historical facts and then wrapping it up in a conservative bow using plainly ridiculous language like unicorns, miracles, blessing to name a couple. Or would you rather correct me and say I just listed 3, which is more than a couple. Oh great point Sherlock! Please continue to educate me!

You got to catch me in a looser mood to get philosophical about how evil what we have is

Another typical overstatement for the sake of strawman. I only said it brings about environmental disasters more so than renewables. It also harms human life more than renewables and hence I call it an ethical issue. Show me some cases like exxon valdez, BP, Ecuador in the 90s-today that have been caused by renewables.

I never said it was evil, which is a typical way for you to exaggerate. I use it daily: I'm not so dumb to bite the hand that provides electric but you assume that also means accepting every chemical, oil, and toxic spill as our duty and never admitting it as an failing. I think it is our ethical obligation to note problems in our conduct when it overtly leads to harm in human life. This is a middle school level discussion, you're right and yet you call it "imagination." The fact is renewables are by definiton more environmentally sound. That necessarily leads to more ethical standards in relation to how it affects humans. That is not imagination, it is very simple reality. Hence, MY WHOLE POINT IS LETS ENCOURAGE ALL RENEWABLES and gradually ween ourselves off fossil fuels now instead of waiting a hundred years from now. THAT'S ALL IVE BEEN SAYING!!!!

The problem you have is you don't live in the world most people live in. You live in your imagination land which you call reality. I can admit when I'm wrong but when you are you just push harder instead of admitting it. Well, good luck, that sounds childish to me but if it works, more power to you for not having to learn the real world and living in your conservative brand of reality. If calling me a liberal makes you feel better, go ahead...after all its about your best argument: "you're a liberal and therefore wrong." Post this perfect argument in St Peter's Cathedral, Tenn is the smartest wisest man alive! After all, you said California needs more "weather." Isn't weather the background condition for which sun or precipitation happens, thus "more weather" makes no sense.

 

[HenryBHough]

California seems to have a surfeit of sunshine just now.

Pity they don't seem to appreciate it.

 

[gnarlylove]

197075 solar projects ongoing in California.

 

[flacaltenn]

Gnarlyone.. It is STILL a problem of your reading material keeping you from realizing there is no current way to extend solar power thru the night.. Ill wager you never took a look at that thread I posted on grid scale storage and what itakes to store a days energy for just 1000 homes. $500BILL is what it costs to build that in China. SUGGEST you view that article. But now you do a bait and switch and cast all that solar PV work under the bus in favor of Solar Death Ray towers with molten storage. Im actually waaaay ahead of the howitworks tutorial. Lemme tell you what they didnt..

1) No solar thermal towers to my knowledge has been built or is planned to be built that has the storage capacity to carry any appreciable power thru the night. The reason is that the efficiency of production goes down quickly the longer you try to store it.. You reach a point not too many hours out where you had to generate 2 or 3 times the energy to store and release just one unit.. So hours of production are extended for about 4 hours.. This works great in Vegas where the utility doesnt WANT any energy til 10AM BUT wants to extend the generation until 12 PM if possible.

These systems are much more complex than solar PV, cannot be downsized easily and will never be placed in urban environments. WHY? Because they are DEATH RAYS. They roast birds in flight or anything else that flies thru them. The economics of the salt storage is marginal, so MOST solar thermal is being fielded without it.. And the downside of flooding a pristine desert floor with molten salt would be a big downer..

Youd do well to lay off the heel nipping until you ACTUALLY KNOW what remedial work I require. Because again, youre depending on cruddy incomplete sources of information for your feelings about how ready we are to produce any alternatives fromthat list you have.. Right now.. The only alternative you got is a dirty fracking operation with very limited geoplacement.

Just curious.. so most people dont live in reality? Like I told you--- engineers and scientists are the largest consumers of sci-fi and techno commercial fantasy.. But they LIVE AND WORK in this zip code called the Real World.... Please make a short list of all my errors and mistakes, because I constantly strive for none at all.. your help is greatly appreciated...

 

[flacaltenn]

197075 solar projects ongoing in California.

Thats cou ting every roof top application. The major projects are getting delayed or canned.

 

[ScienceRocks]

I am suspending my fight for global warming until the pause is over. When we have a few number ones and twos in a roll I may come back to it...Skooks is right as the public isn't amused and I hope the noaa, nws and ipcc can figure this out.

I'll post the monthly data but won't anything else. I like following it and the sea ice as I am interested in the planet.

-Sea ice
-monthly temperature

That can be natural or not and I aren't stopping ever.

The godforsaken ipcc, noaa and outwards needs to spend some real time on proving their damn science. People like me should have a easy job.

 

[gnarlylove]

Whether 1C or 3-4C, we will know what that does in 50 years time: nothing, a little or a lot. With expected medical improvements I think its reasonable to expect most of us will live to know. Wonder what we will be saying then!?

As for renewable sources of energy, they will be developed to sustain our ever greater demand for energy. Fossil fuels will run out eventually and we will require renewable methods of supplying power. Our worldwide love affair for fossil fuels must end someday (not in our lifetime). We will have to strike up a new love affair with renewable energy; that or wait a million years for oil and coal to be made.

So, will we agree to continue to work towards producing better and more efficient renewable energy or continue to resist it?

If we continue to resist, we will likely see greater incidents of environmental and ethical issues arise from fossil fuel industry as we go in deeper and deeper waters requiring more fossil fuels to meet the demand and invading West Virgin-uns privacy by ever increasing mountain top removal projects. They are lucky to hear 10 explosions a day--and don't forget the coal refinery next to the school. It seems therefore natural to support a more ethical future by continuing and increasing the research and production of these inevitable solutions. For indeed they are long-term solutions to a long-term problem: the fact fossil fuels will only last so long until they dry up.

Please don't say something inane about how fossil fuels run the world today: I know that and I'm not saying stop fossil fuels by any means. I'm merely encouraging us to recognize the potential peril of unwavering dependence on fossil fuels for the inevitable future. I think this should influence smart policy today by continuing to develop and construct renewable energy.

 

[polarbear]

197075 solar projects ongoing in California.

The same half baked idea, like before when you figured all it takes to have a "solar power plant" is a solar panel....and now you blabber about Andasol 1 and that this could be done in California.
So you think that the reason why there are no "Andasol" power plants in California is that Californians are too stupid?
If you had even the slightest idea how to generate thermal power of any sort, then you`ld know that it can`t be done unless you got enough cooling capacity.
Andasol 1 only does put out power at a rate of 50 MW and in the process evaporates 870 000 m^3 water per year.
So if you wanted to power California with "Andasol" that would take 457 such plants, occupying 225 758 acres of land ( worth ~ $3500 per acre) and pipe all that cooling water (397 590 000 m^3) to it.

The SWP is California’s largest energy consumer, and even though the hydroelectric plants of the SWP generate 5900 GWh per year,
that is only a fraction of the energy needed to lift water over the Tehachapis.

So you would need about 15 "Andasol" power plants just to be able to pump a fraction of the cooling water needed and you tell me from where you would get that water in California !
You don`t have a clue what`s going on
Why California Is Running Dry - CBS News

Water is in short supply. You don't have to go to Africa or the Middle East to see how much the planet is running dry. Just go to California, where, after three years of drought, dozens of towns and cities have imposed mandatory water rationing and a half million acres in the country's agricultural breadbasket are lying fallow.

What the hell are you greenies smoking anyway?

Christiana Figueres, executive secretary of the U.N. Framework Convention on Climate Change:
Ixchel was not only goddess of the moon, but also "the goddess of reason, creativity and weaving. May she inspire you – because today, you are gathered in Cancun to weave together the elements of a solid response to climate change, using both reason and creativity as your tools." She went on to say to the delegates, "Excellencies, the goddess Ixchel would probably tell you that a tapestry is the result of the skilful interlacing of many threads,"

btw, Andasol 1 can only run for 7.5 hours if the sun does not shine...and needs over 2000 W/m^2 solar irradiance to put out 50 MW.
In California you get only ~ 1000 - 1200 W/m^2

 

[polarbear]

Ive bookmarked that post. Its now Exhibit A for the extreme whackiness of the IPCC circus. I had no idea she was that far short of a brain.. If Skooks wants to boost the ratings of this thread, give us more of her.. And tell me how to sign up for everything this crazy person says. If you read The Onion , PBear --- you couldnt tell the diff between that reality and one of their articles..

In Germany we keep track of these commie "green activists" that make up the bulk of the IPCC and the "Green Party" water melon movement (green outside, red inside) which "Joscka Fischer" founded.
Most of it is published in German, but I`ll keep you posted.

 

[gnarlylove]

Polarbear, don't play me like that. I have stated 10 times I do not recommend building it. I said it so many times, it isn't worth it given current efficiency ratings, underdeveloped technology etc. However, it is obviously improving just like technology typically does and this gives a promising prospect if we continue to develop it. Maybe not this decade but within 50 years it will be much better.

I'm sorry you spent so much time on debunking something I specifically said to not build that; that I was noting it as a mere possibility and that points to the potential it possess with more research and development. Someday we are going to have to figure out renewable techniques one way or another and they're gonna need to be WAY better than today to supply our energy demands. Fossil fuels won't last beyond 300 years, 500 max.and potentially a lot less.

I know California has a water shortage. I was there when signs were posted in bathrooms in City Hall in Oakland and elsewhere noting the shortage. Maybe you can stop riding your high horse because you're chaffing him and its really a donkey. I guess you like fracking in downtown LA on the major fault line...its hapening in the Inglewood Oil Field/Inglewood Faultline. Is that what your energy policy looks like? Don't forget fracking techniques rely on millions of gallons of clean water which is rendered unusable...

 

[flacaltenn]

197075 solar projects ongoing in California.

The same half baked idea, like before when you figured all it takes to have a "solar power plant" is a solar panel....and now you blabber about Andasol 1 and that this could be done in California.
So you think that the reason why there are no "Andasol" power plants in California is that Californians are too stupid?
If you had even the slightest idea how to generate thermal power of any sort, then you`ld know that it can`t be done unless you got enough cooling capacity.
Andasol 1 only does put out power at a rate of 50 MW and in the process evaporates 870 000 m^3 water per year.
So if you wanted to power California with "Andasol" that would take 457 such plants, occupying 225 758 acres of land ( worth ~ $3500 per acre) and pipe all that cooling water (397 590 000 m^3) to it.

The SWP is California’s largest energy consumer, and even though the hydroelectric plants of the SWP generate 5900 GWh per year,
that is only a fraction of the energy needed to lift water over the Tehachapis.

So you would need about 15 "Andasol" power plants just to be able to pump a fraction of the cooling water needed and you tell me from where you would get that water in California !
You don`t have a clue what`s going on
Why California Is Running Dry - CBS News

Water is in short supply. You don't have to go to Africa or the Middle East to see how much the planet is running dry. Just go to California, where, after three years of drought, dozens of towns and cities have imposed mandatory water rationing and a half million acres in the country's agricultural breadbasket are lying fallow.

What the hell are you greenies smoking anyway?

Christiana Figueres, executive secretary of the U.N. Framework Convention on Climate Change:
Ixchel was not only goddess of the moon, but also "the goddess of reason, creativity and weaving. May she inspire you – because today, you are gathered in Cancun to weave together the elements of a solid response to climate change, using both reason and creativity as your tools." She went on to say to the delegates, "Excellencies, the goddess Ixchel would probably tell you that a tapestry is the result of the skilful interlacing of many threads,"

btw, Andasol 1 can only run for 7.5 hours if the sun does not shine...and needs over 2000 W/m^2 solar irradiance to put out 50 MW.
In California you get only ~ 1000 - 1200 W/m^2

Theres been a group of these in the Cali desert for 20 years or so. Older oil technology, no storage.. A couple bankruptcies, one LARGE oil and sulphuric acid explosion accident.. So much for no more explosions and spilled oil eh ? The NEW one Ivanpah, comes on line this year.. AGAIN with no storage because of the economics and engineering issues. (IIRC).. This one has desert enviros in knots over traffic and bird roasts, and endangered tortoises that got evicted.. Not to mention the water use IN A DESERT. But theyve reduced that by closing the system as much as possible.

 

[flacaltenn]

Polarbear, don't play me like that. I have stated 10 times I do not recommend building it. I said it so many times, it isn't worth it given current efficiency ratings, underdeveloped technology etc. However, it is obviously improving just like technology typically does and this gives a promising prospect if we continue to develop it. Maybe not this decade but within 50 years it will be much better.

I'm sorry you spent so much time on debunking something I specifically said to not build that; that I was noting it as a mere possibility and that points to the potential it possess with more research and development. Someday we are going to have to figure out renewable techniques one way or another and they're gonna need to be WAY better than today to supply our energy demands. Fossil fuels won't last beyond 300 years, 500 max.and potentially a lot less.

I know California has a water shortage. I was there when signs were posted in bathrooms in City Hall in Oakland and elsewhere noting the shortage. Maybe you can stop riding your high horse because you're chaffing him and its really a donkey. I guess you like fracking in downtown LA on the major fault line...its hapening in the Inglewood Oil Field/Inglewood Faultline. Is that what your energy policy looks like? Don't forget fracking techniques rely on millions of gallons of clean water which is rendered unusable...

so does geothermal, one of your favorites.. MASSIVELY MORE polluted corroding water.

Could have sworn you were all caps a couple days ago with GO SOLAR Yea Team encouragement. Is THAT where you suggested we dont build any Solar Death Ray Towers?

 

[Kosh]

 

[SSDD]

I don't like it that they spend so much time showing effect and not explaining the science of co2 = those effects.

The fact that I have to search google for experiments that get laughed at is kind of sad for something that is 95% likely to be occurring.

The fact that you don't know why they get laughed at speaks volumes.

 

[SSDD]

Westwall,

You'd think the noaa could afford to do those kinds of experiments and film it.

I an sure they have and if you could, via FOIA, I am sure you could get the results...they would be filed under F for failure.