More Proof the skeptics are WINNING!!

[PMZ]

Incorrect!

Show me some science that supports any other possible consequences of of increasing atmospheric GHG concentrations.

Show us empirical data that supports your little Chicken Little tale. Remember...computer models are not data.

Data that GHGs behave according to the definition of GHGs?

 

[Abraham3]

Remember...computer models are not data.

Sure... as long as you are also willing to throw out every datum you've produced by calculation.

 

[Abraham3]

And then there's the modeling that takes place inside all measuring instruments: where voltage is modeled by magnetic field strength and spring constants, temperature by resistance, pressure by deflection, fluid flow by cooling rates and so forth and so on.

I fail to understand how you cannot worry about the validity of your position when you see the logical flaws to which it leads you.

 

[skookerasbil]

LMAO......still losing >>>>





The Future Of Renewable Energy Can Now Be Found Inside A Shipping Container Sitting Off The I-95 Corridor

Rob Wile Nov. 2, 2013, 6:13 PM


If you want to see the future of renewable energy in the U.S., you should check out the large container sitting next to a nondescript office building off the I-95 corridor in Maryland.

Inside of it is a system that helps solve one of the key problems in the renewable industry: how to store power for longer periods of time in an economical way.

We've told you how solar and wind demand is booming. But sometimes it's not windy, or the sun isn't shining.

This disrupts the ability of renewable generators to provide a steady stream of current.

Now, the headquarters of Konterra, previously best known as the Laurel, Md.-based property developer serving the DC metro area, is home to one of the first renewable energy storage systems in the U.S. capable of not only storing generation when the sun's not shining, but also delivering power to the local electric grid.


Read more: Konterra Solar - Business Insider

Read more: Konterra Solar - Business Insider




Konterra Solar - Business Insider








Like I say......the science isn't mattering!!

 

[skookerasbil]

From yesterday in REALCLEARENERGY >>>>>




November 4, 2013
Green Energy Is a Bust. Long Live Oil & Gas
By Charles Drevn


In 2008 the incoming Obama Administration made bold predictions that there would be a green energy boom leading to lower greenhouse gas emissions, the creation of millions of jobs and the return of robust economic activity. In general, the Administration was right. But it was wrong about the details.

The part it got right is that there is an energy boom. It's coming from oil and natural gas. And it's spurring the capital investments and technological advances that were predicted to be part of the green energy revolution. Economists and energy experts are bullish on both the present and future of oil and natural gas extraction and forecasting great advances for the fuel refiners. Analysts at IHS Insight predict that over the next two decades, the energy industry is expected to make more than $5 trillion in new capital investments and create more than 3.5 million jobs.

Meanwhile, the green energy “revolution” has not exactly been robust, not here nor in Europe.

In 2000, Germany passed a 20-year green energy initiative, an effort led by German Chancellor Angela Merkel, that required energy companies to purchase and supply renewable energy at much higher rates. After the Fukushima nuclear disaster in Japan in 2011, Merkel took it a step further by immediately shutting down eight nuclear reactors and putting Germany on a path to eliminate all nuclear energy.

So how's Germany doing? Not so well according to a 2012 report from German energy expert Dr. Guenther Keil. He says that it is nearly impossible to generate enough energy from renewable sources like wind, especially during high energy demand seasons, without covering all of Germany with wind turbines and without the country incurring costs to the tune of one trillion Euros over the next 15 years. Even with massive government subsidization, renewable energy cannot compensate for the reduction in tradition energy.



RealClearEnergy - Green Energy Is a Bust. Long Live Oil & Gas

 

[skookerasbil]

HUGE LEVELS OF LOSE >>>>




A paper in the peer-reviewed journal Climate Dynamics – by Professor Judith Curry of the Georgia Institute of Technology and Dr Marcia Wyatt – amounts to a stunning challenge to climate science orthodoxy.




Read more: Global warming 'pause' may last for 20 more years and Arctic sea ice has already started to recover | Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook




Global warming 'pause' may last for 20 more years and Arctic sea ice has already started to recover | Mail Online

 

[skookerasbil]

 

[skookerasbil]

ps......only the climate crusader k00ks put any stock in the models!!!!


The models are wrong | Behind The Black



either way though........they don't matter!!!

 

[PMZ]

ps......only the climate crusader k00ks put any stock in the models!!!!


The models are wrong | Behind The Black



either way though........they don't matter!!!

Math has been around for quite a while and has demonstrated pretty solid reliability.

 

[flacaltenn]

LMAO......still losing >>>>





The Future Of Renewable Energy Can Now Be Found Inside A Shipping Container Sitting Off The I-95 Corridor

Rob Wile Nov. 2, 2013, 6:13 PM


If you want to see the future of renewable energy in the U.S., you should check out the large container sitting next to a nondescript office building off the I-95 corridor in Maryland.

Inside of it is a system that helps solve one of the key problems in the renewable industry: how to store power for longer periods of time in an economical way.

We've told you how solar and wind demand is booming. But sometimes it's not windy, or the sun isn't shining.

This disrupts the ability of renewable generators to provide a steady stream of current.

Now, the headquarters of Konterra, previously best known as the Laurel, Md.-based property developer serving the DC metro area, is home to one of the first renewable energy storage systems in the U.S. capable of not only storing generation when the sun's not shining, but also delivering power to the local electric grid.


Read more: Konterra Solar - Business Insider

Read more: Konterra Solar - Business Insider




Konterra Solar - Business Insider








Like I say......the science isn't mattering!!

That article was a 10th grade science writing assignment right??

Current renewable storage set ups are pretty expensive. This system helps make it more economical.

Grid operators, and the electricity industry in general, is notoriously conservative.

But given where the renewable market is going, it seems they probably can't afford to be so for much longer.

Read more: Konterra Solar - Business Insider

Makes it MORE ECONOMICAL?? Sure it does.. Not a word about cost.. Not much about the AMOUNT of storage except for the "4 hour" comment about the building.

"notoriously conservative" ---- This is all sunshine and unicorns. ADDS cost to the installation --- LOTS OF IT.. For 4 hours of storage? Call me when they show the size AND THE COST that can take the building thru a day without sunshine or even a full night...

"But SOMEDAY -- the grid will merely be a back-up system" Smokin' the Jamaica shit I presume..

 

[Impenitent]

It is what's changed and what's changing climate.

It is what's driving the temperature ...now. But as it warms and melts Arctic permafrost, where enormous amounts of frozen methane are stored, and this methane being a more more powerful greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide...well, it's a pretty clear picture.

That would be a tipping point!

Odd that preppers are readying for a race war, or another financial meltdown, but not the likely meltdown caused by a methane saturated atmosphere!

That's funny. There's zero evidence that that occurred during the Holocene Thermal Maximum which was MUCH warmer than the present day. Your little prognostications seem to be not too accurate based on events in the not too distant past.

No, thankfully, that didn't happen in Holocene maximum, when temps were approx 1 degree c. warmer than they are now.
Although you say "much" warmer. Is that empirical data?

But at temps 2 degrees higher than now, the permafrost will melt. *We're that close! *

And there is evidence that the maximum didn't bring that high temps to the Arctic in the past, and that the Arctic is warming at a faster rate than other parts of the globe.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/environment/321121-study-shows-unprecedented-warmth-in-arctic.html

There is 1200 Gton of methane in the Arctic permafrost, compared to 5 Gton in the atmosphere. *The potential threat is real.

Get ready prepper!

 

[flacaltenn]

CO2 does not nor has ever driven climate.

It is what's changed and what's changing climate.

It is what's driving the temperature ...now. But as it warms and melts Arctic permafrost, where enormous amounts of frozen methane are stored, and this methane being a more more powerful greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide...well, it's a pretty clear picture.

That would be a tipping point!

Odd that preppers are readying for a race war, or another financial meltdown, but not the likely meltdown caused by a methane saturated atmosphere!

As a trigger mechanism,, CO2 is MAYBE good for a total 1degC until we reach about 600ppm.. If you believe that 1degC trigger is gonna explode the planet and accelerate into runaway climate destruction --- you need to seek medication..

Termites create more methane than is leaking from the tundra today.. And when most of N. America was covered in mile deep ice --- FAR MORE permafrost melting then than is available today.

You just need a sturdier planet to live on I reckon..

 

[PMZ]

It is what's changed and what's changing climate.

It is what's driving the temperature ...now. But as it warms and melts Arctic permafrost, where enormous amounts of frozen methane are stored, and this methane being a more more powerful greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide...well, it's a pretty clear picture.

That would be a tipping point!

Odd that preppers are readying for a race war, or another financial meltdown, but not the likely meltdown caused by a methane saturated atmosphere!

As a trigger mechanism,, CO2 is MAYBE good for a total 1degC until we reach about 600ppm.. If you believe that 1degC trigger is gonna explode the planet and accelerate into runaway climate destruction --- you need to seek medication..

Termites create more methane than is leaking from the tundra today.. And when most of N. America was covered in mile deep ice --- FAR MORE permafrost melting then than is available today.

You just need a sturdier planet to live on I reckon..

You don't need to make up science. The IPCC already has the good stuff.

 

[Abraham3]

As a trigger mechanism,, CO2 is MAYBE good for a total 1degC until we reach about 600ppm.. If you believe that 1degC trigger is gonna explode the planet and accelerate into runaway climate destruction --- you need to seek medication..

Termites create more methane than is leaking from the tundra today.. And when most of N. America was covered in mile deep ice --- FAR MORE permafrost melting then than is available today.

You just need a sturdier planet to live on I reckon..

It's produced very close to 1C already, going from 280 to 400 ppm.

You keep forgetting the novelty of the current situation. The level of GHGs in the atmosphere has not risen this fast since the KT impact. Temperatures haven't risen this fast in likely just as long. That means the tundra will outgas faster than it ever has and, given the shorter lifespan of methane in the atmosphere, it will have more effect than it's ever had.

The amount the termites produce is large. But it's not changing. The melting tundra will be a significant change.

 

[skookerasbil]

It is what's driving the temperature ...now. But as it warms and melts Arctic permafrost, where enormous amounts of frozen methane are stored, and this methane being a more more powerful greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide...well, it's a pretty clear picture.

That would be a tipping point!

Odd that preppers are readying for a race war, or another financial meltdown, but not the likely meltdown caused by a methane saturated atmosphere!

That's funny. There's zero evidence that that occurred during the Holocene Thermal Maximum which was MUCH warmer than the present day. Your little prognostications seem to be not too accurate based on events in the not too distant past.

No, thankfully, that didn't happen in Holocene maximum, when temps were approx 1 degree c. warmer than they are now.
Although you say "much" warmer. Is that empirical data?

But at temps 2 degrees higher than now, the permafrost will melt. *We're that close! *

And there is evidence that the maximum didn't bring that high temps to the Arctic in the past, and that the Arctic is warming at a faster rate than other parts of the globe.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/environment/321121-study-shows-unprecedented-warmth-in-arctic.html

There is 1200 Gton of methane in the Arctic permafrost, compared to 5 Gton in the atmosphere. *The potential threat is real.

Get ready prepper!

Global warming 'pause' may last for 20 more years and Arctic sea ice has already started to recover | Mail Online




peer reviewed FTMFW

 

[skookerasbil]

 

[Impenitent]

That's funny. There's zero evidence that that occurred during the Holocene Thermal Maximum which was MUCH warmer than the present day. Your little prognostications seem to be not too accurate based on events in the not too distant past.

No, thankfully, that didn't happen in Holocene maximum, when temps were approx 1 degree c. warmer than they are now.
Although you say "much" warmer. Is that empirical data?

But at temps 2 degrees higher than now, the permafrost will melt. *We're that close! *

And there is evidence that the maximum didn't bring that high temps to the Arctic in the past, and that the Arctic is warming at a faster rate than other parts of the globe.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/environment/321121-study-shows-unprecedented-warmth-in-arctic.html

There is 1200 Gton of methane in the Arctic permafrost, compared to 5 Gton in the atmosphere. *The potential threat is real.

Get ready prepper!

Global warming 'pause' may last for 20 more years and Arctic sea ice has already started to recover | Mail Online




peer reviewed FTMFW

So you counter with a daily mail article about waves and models?

Those might be right or they might be wrong! They are inconsequential.

The simple fact is, AGW or not, natural cycle or not, skeptics right or wrong, models right or wrong:

IF THE ARCTIC TEMPERATURE GOES UP 2 DEGREES CENTIGRADE

The permafrost melts, the methane is released, and we're up shit creek!

 

[westwall]

It is what's driving the temperature ...now. But as it warms and melts Arctic permafrost, where enormous amounts of frozen methane are stored, and this methane being a more more powerful greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide...well, it's a pretty clear picture.

That would be a tipping point!

Odd that preppers are readying for a race war, or another financial meltdown, but not the likely meltdown caused by a methane saturated atmosphere!

That's funny. There's zero evidence that that occurred during the Holocene Thermal Maximum which was MUCH warmer than the present day. Your little prognostications seem to be not too accurate based on events in the not too distant past.

No, thankfully, that didn't happen in Holocene maximum, when temps were approx 1 degree c. warmer than they are now.
Although you say "much" warmer. Is that empirical data?

But at temps 2 degrees higher than now, the permafrost will melt. *We're that close! *

And there is evidence that the maximum didn't bring that high temps to the Arctic in the past, and that the Arctic is warming at a faster rate than other parts of the globe.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/environment/321121-study-shows-unprecedented-warmth-in-arctic.html

There is 1200 Gton of methane in the Arctic permafrost, compared to 5 Gton in the atmosphere. *The potential threat is real.

Get ready prepper!

Oh, they were much warmer than that... You need to get your facts straight there mister.



"Abstract

We analyze the global variations in the timing and magnitude of the Holocene Thermal Maximum (HTM) and their dependence on various forcings in transient simulations covering the last 9000 years (9 ka), performed with a global atmosphere-ocean-vegetation model. In these experiments, we consider the influence of variations in orbital parameters and atmospheric greenhouse gases and the early-Holocene deglaciation of the Laurentide Ice sheet (LIS). Considering the LIS deglaciation, we quantify separately the impacts of the background melt-water fluxes and the changes in topography and surface albedo.

In the analysis we focus on the intensity of the maximum temperature deviation relative to the preindustrial level, its timing in the Holocene, and the seasonal expression. In the model, the warmest HTM conditions are found at high latitudes in both hemispheres, reaching 5 °C above the preindustrial level, while the smallest HTM signal is seen over tropical oceans (less than 0.5 °C). This latitudinal contrast is mostly related to the nature of the orbitally-forced insolation forcing, which is also largest at high latitudes, and further enhanced by the polar amplification. The Holocene timing of the HTM is earliest (before 8 ka BP) in regions not affected by the remnant LIS, particularly NW North America, E Asia, N Africa, N South America, the Middle East, NE Siberia and Australia. Compared to the early Holocene insolation maximum, the HTM was delayed by 2–3 ka over NE North America, and regions directly downwind from the LIS. A similar delay is simulated over the Southern Ocean, while an intermediate lag of about 1 ka is found over most other continents and oceans. The seasonal timing of the HTM over continents generally occurs in the same month as the maximum insolation anomaly, whereas over oceans the HTM is delayed by 2–3 months. Exceptions are the oceans covered by sea ice and North Africa, were additional feedbacks results in a different seasonal timing. The simulated timing and magnitude of the HTM are generally consistent with global proxy evidence, with some notable exceptions in the Mediterranean region, SW North America and eastern Eurasia."




Global characterization of the Holocene Thermal Maximum

And....
The Holocene thermal maximum and late-Holocene cooling in the tundra of NE European Russia






Salonen, JS; Seppa, H; Valiranta, M; Jones, VJ; Self, A; Heikkila, M; ... Yang, HD; + view all (2011) The Holocene thermal maximum and late-Holocene cooling in the tundra of NE European Russia. QUATERNARY RES , 75 (3) 501 - 511. 10.1016/j.yqres.2011.01.007.


Full text not available from this repository.


Abstract

To investigate the Holocene climate and treeline dynamics in the European Russian Arctic, we analysed sediment pollen, conifer stomata, and plant macrofossils from Lake Kharinei, a tundra lake near the treeline in the Pechora area. We present quantitative summer temperature reconstructions from Lake Kharinei and lake Tumbulovaty, a previously studied lake in the same region, using a pollen-climate transfer function based on a new calibration set from northern European Russia. Our records suggest that the early-Holocene summer temperatures from 11,500 cal yr BP onwards were already slightly higher than at present, followed by a stable Holocene Thermal Maximum (HTM) at 8000-3500 cal yr BP when summer temperatures in the tundra were ca. 3 degrees C above present-day values. A Picea forest surrounded Lake Kharinei during the HTM, reaching 150 km north of the present taiga limit. The HIM ended with a temperature drop at 3500-2500 cal yr BP associated with permafrost initiation in the region. Mixed spruce forest began to disappear around lake Kharinei at ca. 3500 cal yr BP, with the last tree macrofossils recorded at ca. 2500 cal yr BP. suggesting that the present wide tundra zone in the Pechora region formed during the last ca. 3500 yr. (C) 2011 University of Washington. Published by Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.



http://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/1310214/

There are plenty more should you choose to educate yourself properly.

 

[flacaltenn]

No, thankfully, that didn't happen in Holocene maximum, when temps were approx 1 degree c. warmer than they are now.
Although you say "much" warmer. Is that empirical data?

But at temps 2 degrees higher than now, the permafrost will melt. *We're that close! *

And there is evidence that the maximum didn't bring that high temps to the Arctic in the past, and that the Arctic is warming at a faster rate than other parts of the globe.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/environment/321121-study-shows-unprecedented-warmth-in-arctic.html

There is 1200 Gton of methane in the Arctic permafrost, compared to 5 Gton in the atmosphere. *The potential threat is real.

Get ready prepper!

Global warming 'pause' may last for 20 more years and Arctic sea ice has already started to recover | Mail Online




peer reviewed FTMFW

So you counter with a daily mail article about waves and models?

Those might be right or they might be wrong! They are inconsequential.

The simple fact is, AGW or not, natural cycle or not, skeptics right or wrong, models right or wrong:

IF THE ARCTIC TEMPERATURE GOES UP 2 DEGREES CENTIGRADE

The permafrost melts, the methane is released, and we're up shit creek!

The Russian expert on the Siberian side of tundra has said REPEATEDLY that the bulk of the reserve frozen deposits is locked under shallow water and not likely to ever be "unfrozen" unless the WORST temp scenarios are realized. HOWEVER --- he's also cautioned that the far greater threat to a massive release would be the hefty SEISMIC faults that run right thru the area..

Wouldn't that be a bitch?? Gives you somethiing new and more likely to worry about for awhile while you prepare plans to leave this junker of a planet that you inherited from the Romulans..

 

[westwall]

As a trigger mechanism,, CO2 is MAYBE good for a total 1degC until we reach about 600ppm.. If you believe that 1degC trigger is gonna explode the planet and accelerate into runaway climate destruction --- you need to seek medication..

Termites create more methane than is leaking from the tundra today.. And when most of N. America was covered in mile deep ice --- FAR MORE permafrost melting then than is available today.

You just need a sturdier planet to live on I reckon..

It's produced very close to 1C already, going from 280 to 400 ppm.

You keep forgetting the novelty of the current situation. The level of GHGs in the atmosphere has not risen this fast since the KT impact. Temperatures haven't risen this fast in likely just as long. That means the tundra will outgas faster than it ever has and, given the shorter lifespan of methane in the atmosphere, it will have more effect than it's ever had.

The amount the termites produce is large. But it's not changing. The melting tundra will be a significant change.

What was the temperature of the globe before the Little Ice Age? What did the temperature of the globe drop down to during the Little Ice Age? At the current rate of increase how long will it take to attain the global temperature that existed BEFORE the Little Ice Age?