Most Palestinians in West Bank Oppose Stabbing Attacks on Israelis

[Boston1]

Hamas launches first phosphorus rocket at Negev; no injuries reported

They should be absolutely condemned for it.

Do you condemn Israel's use of white phospherous?

White phosphorous shells are not even close to what a phosphorous rocket is.
A phosphorous rocket is designed to melt hardened targets.
A white phosphorus shell is a non lethal smoke bomb designed to mark a location or create a smoke screen.

Even the Red Cross says no problem.

Red Cross: Israel's use of white phosphorus not illegal - Democratic Underground

Now tell us what Palestinians have been arrested for direct violations of the Geneva Conventions for intentionally targeting civilians.

You have decades of history, tell us just one name. Just one. Uno.

But you can't, because Palestinians are all vermin.

Umh...no. Red Cross did NOT say it was no problem. Only not illegal.

ICRC service

Does the use of weapons containing white phosphorous, in particular incendiary weapons, in a populated area give rise to any specific humanitarian concerns?

Yes. White phosphorous weapons spread burning phosphorous, which burns at over 800 degrees centi grade (about 1,500 degrees fahrenheit), over a wide area, up to several hundred square metres. The burning will continue until the phosphorous has been completely depleted or until it no longer is exposed to oxygen. The weapon has a potential to cause particularly horrific and painful injuries or slow painful death. Medical personnel must be specially trained to treat such injuries and may themselves be exposed to phosphorous burns. If used against military targets in or near populated areas, weapons containing this substance must be used with extreme caution to prevent civilian casualties.
​

It is contraindicated in urban areas, particularly when other materials that could do the job more safely, were available.

Israel: White Phosphorus Use Evidence of War Crimes

When used properly in open areas, white phosphorus munitions are not illegal, but the Human Rights Watch report concludes that the IDF repeatedly exploded it unlawfully over populated neighborhoods, killing and wounding civilians and damaging civilian structures, including a school, a market, a humanitarian aid warehouse, and a hospital.


Israel at first denied it was using white phosphorus in Gaza but, facing mounting evidence to the contrary, said that it was using all weapons in compliance with international law. Later it announced an internal investigation into possible improper white phosphorus use. ​

Have any Israeli's been arrested for violating the Geneva Conventions? International law? No.

Israel does not violate the Geneva convention, unlike the Palestinians who fire thousands of missiles at Israeli citizens, much like Hitler did at England.

And no one is interested in your lies and propaganda photos.

We all know Palestinians are just a bunch of Islamic vermin.

Palestinians are also Christian.

I didn't know vermin were christian ?

And no, Arab Muslims best not convert to christianity. Apostasy isn't exactly very safe in that twisted little world of yours Monty.

Quote

According to Abdul Rashied Omar, the majority of modern Muslim scholars continue to hold the traditional view that the death penalty for apostasy is required by the two primary sources of Sharia - the Quran and the Hadiths,.[13]

End Quote

Off with their heads.

The end of christianity in the middle east

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/26/m...-of-christianity-in-the-middle-east.html?_r=0

Doesn't look like your buddies are all that welcoming of your christian vermin in the east.

PS
I like the "vermin" thing, its got a ring to it

 

[Hollie]

Hamas launches first phosphorus rocket at Negev; no injuries reported

They should be absolutely condemned for it.

Do you condemn Israel's use of white phospherous?

White phosphorous shells are not even close to what a phosphorous rocket is.
A phosphorous rocket is designed to melt hardened targets.
A white phosphorus shell is a non lethal smoke bomb designed to mark a location or create a smoke screen.

Even the Red Cross says no problem.

Red Cross: Israel's use of white phosphorus not illegal - Democratic Underground

Now tell us what Palestinians have been arrested for direct violations of the Geneva Conventions for intentionally targeting civilians.

You have decades of history, tell us just one name. Just one. Uno.

But you can't, because Palestinians are all vermin.

Umh...no. Red Cross did NOT say it was no problem. Only not illegal.

ICRC service

Does the use of weapons containing white phosphorous, in particular incendiary weapons, in a populated area give rise to any specific humanitarian concerns?

Yes. White phosphorous weapons spread burning phosphorous, which burns at over 800 degrees centi grade (about 1,500 degrees fahrenheit), over a wide area, up to several hundred square metres. The burning will continue until the phosphorous has been completely depleted or until it no longer is exposed to oxygen. The weapon has a potential to cause particularly horrific and painful injuries or slow painful death. Medical personnel must be specially trained to treat such injuries and may themselves be exposed to phosphorous burns. If used against military targets in or near populated areas, weapons containing this substance must be used with extreme caution to prevent civilian casualties.
​

It is contraindicated in urban areas, particularly when other materials that could do the job more safely, were available.

Israel: White Phosphorus Use Evidence of War Crimes

When used properly in open areas, white phosphorus munitions are not illegal, but the Human Rights Watch report concludes that the IDF repeatedly exploded it unlawfully over populated neighborhoods, killing and wounding civilians and damaging civilian structures, including a school, a market, a humanitarian aid warehouse, and a hospital.


Israel at first denied it was using white phosphorus in Gaza but, facing mounting evidence to the contrary, said that it was using all weapons in compliance with international law. Later it announced an internal investigation into possible improper white phosphorus use. ​

Have any Israeli's been arrested for violating the Geneva Conventions? International law? No.

Israel does not violate the Geneva convention, unlike the Palestinians who fire thousands of missiles at Israeli citizens, much like Hitler did at England.

And no one is interested in your lies and propaganda photos.

We all know Palestinians are just a bunch of Islamic vermin.

Palestinians are also Christian.

Only a relatively few that have not yet been driven out.

 

[Coyote]

Is it really an excuse? And...frankly...if it is indeed an "urban legend"...then why so many civilian casualties?

So many civilian casualties? Israel achieved a 1:1 civilian to combatant ratio. That is better than any army has done in any conflict ever. Even if you take the bogus Gazan numbers its still 2:1 and still better than any army has done in any conflict ever. AND this in a "densely populated area" where the other party to the conflict uses human shields. Israel has done a remarkable job in limiting civilian casualties and still getting the job done.

Now, can we get off Israel and start talking about the topic of this thread -- which is the ideology of the Gazans and the Palestinians?

How do you know they are bogus and Israel's are accurate or is this an assumption? Both sides have their agenda when it comes to numbers - one to reduce, one to inflate. In addition, Israel allowed no independent observers, journalists, or the Red Cross until very late or afterwards, so it is almost impossible to verify claims. You're also kind of missing some of the points I made.

I think I already stated that Israel tries very hard to avoid unnecessary civilian casualties (but they effed up using wp) - they do better than most other militaries in that regard. I don't disagree.

You're trying to make the case that Gaza is NOT densely populated and I'm guessing that the reason for this is to be able to push the narrative that they use human shields because they COULD create distance from themselves and civilian populations, and Israel does not and Israel doe not use human sheilds (which is a lie by the way as they were using human sheilds until the courts got involved).

Population density - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Gaza is listed as the 3rd most densly populated region by political boundary in the world, exceeded only by Singapore and Hong Kong. The population density is 5045. If it weren't so densely populated, I suspect the casualties would have been even lower. It's extremely difficult to keep the casualty rate down in urban areas.

So is it an urban legend? My statement "the most" was wrong, but in the end - it's certainly one of the most, at third, in the world. Being in the top 3, there isn't a lot of difference.

So...that leads me to ask - why is it so important to insist it's an urban legend?

 

[Coyote]

What I find interesting, in people's reactions to the OP is this.

The OP indicates that support for knifings is not as high as some would claim. It is by no means overwelming support and it's a complicated situation with distinct differences between Gaza and WB. In fact, almost every poll shows such differences so perhaps Gaza and WB should not be lumped together.

Instead of looking at that, people are, instead, horrified that it is even that high. I suppose it's how you look at it.

Note - I edited and abbreviated this response because I think the rest would be better served in it's own thread on Palestinian public opinion

 

[docmauser1]

How do you know they are bogus and Israel's are accurate or is this an assumption?

Oh that's rather simple, of course. Benni Morris mentioned that too, indeed, "The Palestinian Authority (PA) has emerged as a virtual kingdom of mendacity, where every official, from President Arafat down, spends his days lying to a succession of western journalists. The reporters routinely give the lies credence equal to or greater than what they hear from straight, or far less mendacious, Israeli officials. One day Arafat charges that the Israel Defence Forces (IDF) uses uranium-tipped shells against Palestinian civilians. The next day it’s poison gas. Then, for lack of independent corroboration, the charges simply vanish – and the Palestinians go on to the next lie, again garnering headlines in western and Arab newspapers."

 

[Boston1]

Is it really an excuse? And...frankly...if it is indeed an "urban legend"...then why so many civilian casualties?

So many civilian casualties? Israel achieved a 1:1 civilian to combatant ratio. That is better than any army has done in any conflict ever. Even if you take the bogus Gazan numbers its still 2:1 and still better than any army has done in any conflict ever. AND this in a "densely populated area" where the other party to the conflict uses human shields. Israel has done a remarkable job in limiting civilian casualties and still getting the job done.

Now, can we get off Israel and start talking about the topic of this thread -- which is the ideology of the Gazans and the Palestinians?

How do you know they are bogus and Israel's are accurate or is this an assumption? Both sides have their agenda when it comes to numbers - one to reduce, one to inflate. In addition, Israel allowed no independent observers, journalists, or the Red Cross until very late or afterwards, so it is almost impossible to verify claims. You're also kind of missing some of the points I made.

I think I already stated that Israel tries very hard to avoid unnecessary civilian casualties (but they effed up using wp) - they do better than most other militaries in that regard. I don't disagree.

You're trying to make the case that Gaza is NOT densely populated and I'm guessing that the reason for this is to be able to push the narrative that they use human shields because they COULD create distance from themselves and civilian populations, and Israel does not and Israel doe not use human sheilds (which is a lie by the way as they were using human sheilds until the courts got involved).

Population density - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Gaza is listed as the 3rd most densly populated region by political boundary in the world, exceeded only by Singapore and Hong Kong. The population density is 5045. If it weren't so densely populated, I suspect the casualties would have been even lower. It's extremely difficult to keep the casualty rate down in urban areas.

So is it an urban legend? My statement "the most" was wrong, but in the end - it's certainly one of the most, at third, in the world. Being in the top 3, there isn't a lot of difference.

So...that leads me to ask - why is it so important to insist it's an urban legend?

Its called agnotology

One side doesn't like what the science says so they invent their own science and present it in direct refutation of the real science

It was thought to be invented by the Tobacco companies but I think we might have to give the Arabs credit for this one.

Their invention of a people and then insistence that those people be recognized as just as legitimate as an actual native peoples IMHO was the first instance of "agnotology" Although not necessarily based in "tobacco science" this first use of "agnotology" was entirely based in politics.

Regardless one cannot deligetimize what was never legitimate in the first place.

I just hope this ends sooner than later. Its really just a simple matter of following international law, to the letter.

 

[montelatici]

They should be absolutely condemned for it.

Do you condemn Israel's use of white phospherous?

White phosphorous shells are not even close to what a phosphorous rocket is.
A phosphorous rocket is designed to melt hardened targets.
A white phosphorus shell is a non lethal smoke bomb designed to mark a location or create a smoke screen.

Even the Red Cross says no problem.

Red Cross: Israel's use of white phosphorus not illegal - Democratic Underground

Now tell us what Palestinians have been arrested for direct violations of the Geneva Conventions for intentionally targeting civilians.

You have decades of history, tell us just one name. Just one. Uno.

But you can't, because Palestinians are all vermin.

Umh...no. Red Cross did NOT say it was no problem. Only not illegal.

ICRC service

Does the use of weapons containing white phosphorous, in particular incendiary weapons, in a populated area give rise to any specific humanitarian concerns?

Yes. White phosphorous weapons spread burning phosphorous, which burns at over 800 degrees centi grade (about 1,500 degrees fahrenheit), over a wide area, up to several hundred square metres. The burning will continue until the phosphorous has been completely depleted or until it no longer is exposed to oxygen. The weapon has a potential to cause particularly horrific and painful injuries or slow painful death. Medical personnel must be specially trained to treat such injuries and may themselves be exposed to phosphorous burns. If used against military targets in or near populated areas, weapons containing this substance must be used with extreme caution to prevent civilian casualties.
​

It is contraindicated in urban areas, particularly when other materials that could do the job more safely, were available.

Israel: White Phosphorus Use Evidence of War Crimes

When used properly in open areas, white phosphorus munitions are not illegal, but the Human Rights Watch report concludes that the IDF repeatedly exploded it unlawfully over populated neighborhoods, killing and wounding civilians and damaging civilian structures, including a school, a market, a humanitarian aid warehouse, and a hospital.


Israel at first denied it was using white phosphorus in Gaza but, facing mounting evidence to the contrary, said that it was using all weapons in compliance with international law. Later it announced an internal investigation into possible improper white phosphorus use. ​

Have any Israeli's been arrested for violating the Geneva Conventions? International law? No.

Israel does not violate the Geneva convention, unlike the Palestinians who fire thousands of missiles at Israeli citizens, much like Hitler did at England.

And no one is interested in your lies and propaganda photos.

We all know Palestinians are just a bunch of Islamic vermin.

Palestinians are also Christian.

I didn't know vermin were christian ?

And no, Arab Muslims best not convert to christianity. Apostasy isn't exactly very safe in that twisted little world of yours Monty.

Quote

According to Abdul Rashied Omar, the majority of modern Muslim scholars continue to hold the traditional view that the death penalty for apostasy is required by the two primary sources of Sharia - the Quran and the Hadiths,.[13]

End Quote

Off with their heads.

The end of christianity in the middle east

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/26/m...-of-christianity-in-the-middle-east.html?_r=0

Doesn't look like your buddies are all that welcoming of your christian vermin in the east.

PS
I like the "vermin" thing, its got a ring to it

That's what the other master race called the Jews. Not new and it usually ends badly for such racists. Here is a Palestinian Christian (vermin to you) telling it like it is.

 

[Hollie]

White phosphorous shells are not even close to what a phosphorous rocket is.
A phosphorous rocket is designed to melt hardened targets.
A white phosphorus shell is a non lethal smoke bomb designed to mark a location or create a smoke screen.

Even the Red Cross says no problem.

Red Cross: Israel's use of white phosphorus not illegal - Democratic Underground

Now tell us what Palestinians have been arrested for direct violations of the Geneva Conventions for intentionally targeting civilians.

You have decades of history, tell us just one name. Just one. Uno.

But you can't, because Palestinians are all vermin.

Umh...no. Red Cross did NOT say it was no problem. Only not illegal.

ICRC service

Does the use of weapons containing white phosphorous, in particular incendiary weapons, in a populated area give rise to any specific humanitarian concerns?

Yes. White phosphorous weapons spread burning phosphorous, which burns at over 800 degrees centi grade (about 1,500 degrees fahrenheit), over a wide area, up to several hundred square metres. The burning will continue until the phosphorous has been completely depleted or until it no longer is exposed to oxygen. The weapon has a potential to cause particularly horrific and painful injuries or slow painful death. Medical personnel must be specially trained to treat such injuries and may themselves be exposed to phosphorous burns. If used against military targets in or near populated areas, weapons containing this substance must be used with extreme caution to prevent civilian casualties.
​

It is contraindicated in urban areas, particularly when other materials that could do the job more safely, were available.

Israel: White Phosphorus Use Evidence of War Crimes

When used properly in open areas, white phosphorus munitions are not illegal, but the Human Rights Watch report concludes that the IDF repeatedly exploded it unlawfully over populated neighborhoods, killing and wounding civilians and damaging civilian structures, including a school, a market, a humanitarian aid warehouse, and a hospital.


Israel at first denied it was using white phosphorus in Gaza but, facing mounting evidence to the contrary, said that it was using all weapons in compliance with international law. Later it announced an internal investigation into possible improper white phosphorus use. ​

Have any Israeli's been arrested for violating the Geneva Conventions? International law? No.

Israel does not violate the Geneva convention, unlike the Palestinians who fire thousands of missiles at Israeli citizens, much like Hitler did at England.

And no one is interested in your lies and propaganda photos.

We all know Palestinians are just a bunch of Islamic vermin.

Palestinians are also Christian.

I didn't know vermin were christian ?

And no, Arab Muslims best not convert to christianity. Apostasy isn't exactly very safe in that twisted little world of yours Monty.

Quote

According to Abdul Rashied Omar, the majority of modern Muslim scholars continue to hold the traditional view that the death penalty for apostasy is required by the two primary sources of Sharia - the Quran and the Hadiths,.[13]

End Quote

Off with their heads.

The end of christianity in the middle east

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/26/m...-of-christianity-in-the-middle-east.html?_r=0

Doesn't look like your buddies are all that welcoming of your christian vermin in the east.

PS
I like the "vermin" thing, its got a ring to it

That's what the other master race called the Jews. Not new and it usually ends badly for such racists. Here is a Palestinian Christian (vermin to you) telling it like it is.

On the other hand:

 

[Boston1]

I usually don't even bother Hollie. Gerbils ;--) just isn't worth the time or effort.

The simple reality is that an Arab Muslim on this side of the Jordan is no different than an Arab Muslim on that side of the Jordan. Or in Syria or Lebanon or any of the other recently created countries in the area.

The fact remains that they are all native of the Arabian peninsula and of very recent origin. Say about the 7th century.

Judaic people on the other hand date back to the early bronze age and before.

Its not even a question as to who the first nations people are in the middle east. Its just those blinded by hatred don't want Judaic neighbors

 

[Picaro]

When did the bar get so low? Its somehow good news that half of Palestinians and 4 in 5 Gazas think stabbing innocent civilian Jews is morally desirable, or at least acceptable?

This is actually a high point for them. It used to be 100%. I think some of them are lying, though, and it's still around 100%.

 

[montelatici]

Given how non-Jews are treated by the Jews in Palestine, it's surprising that any Palestinian Christian or Muslim would not support the attacks on their oppressors. I am sure that very few non-whites in Apartheid South Africa did not support the ANC attacks on the whites.

 

[Votto]

Interesting to see what opinion polls show vs what propoganda claims. There is a big split between Gaza and West Bank and I wonder what that means for the future?

Most Palestinians in West Bank Oppose Stabbing Attacks on Israelis, New Poll Shows
Most Palestinians in West Bank oppose stabbing attacks on Israelis, new poll shows - Israel News

A survey has found a sharp split between Gaza and the West Bank over the latest wave of violence with Israel, with 79 percent in Gaza backing the stabbing attacks on Israelis, compared to 54 percent of Palestinians in the West Bank who oppose them.

But the survey, conducted by the Palestinian research institute JMCC, Jeruslem Media and Communications center earlier this month, found further that 55.9 percent of Palestinian support the current intifada, and 41 percent were opposed. The data didn't get into what form of protest Palestinians preferred to the stabbings.

percent were opposed. The data didn't get into what form of protest Palestinians preferred to the stabbings.

Of 1,200 Palestinians above 18 questioned in face-to-face interviews, 69 percent said they still supported a two state solution, with 24.8 percent calling for a single state, but with full equality. The average age of respondents was 38, and the poll had a margin of error of three percent. ​

Well great, so when do the Zionists get thrown into the Sea again?

 

[Phoenall]

And you link proves none of the above does it, as they are the words of another person. This is where we differ as you will believe everything that is bad about Israel, even after it has been proven false. I will check the evidence and make no claims until the evidence is all in.

In this case I note you forget to mention that the group was from Sderot that has faced the brunt of Palestinian terrorism over the years, so it is only to be expected they want to see justice done. Looking at the pictures I see less than 40 people sitting around looking to the distance.
Most as in this one are sombre and quiet

Israelis gather on hillsides to watch and cheer as military drops bombs on Gaza

They look like they're having a good time to me.

You know your second picture down, what would you say if I told you it was a fake. You see the young man in the white shirt and black trousers, well he is a member of the British monarchy. Next to him as a British actor and lastly is another British celebrity. The lines for that part of the picture are blurred and out of focus, as if they have been altered at the pixel level.

On top of this you are adding 2 and 2 and being told the answer is 5 because this is what you want to see. The dialogue does not match the action

Prove it.

Prince William

Leonard Rossiter.



Third man 's name eludes me

That's quite a stretch to claim they are in the picture. Do you have a photo identifying them as those people? If not, no cigar.

That is what you have done by claiming pictures of people gathered on a hillside are celebrating the bombing of gaza. All you have to go on is the captions from islamonazi sources.

I believe that some of our Jewish posters stated that the people were actually celebrating a festival or holiday taking place. Much like the alleged Jews dancing on 9/11 which was nothing of the sort was it ?

 

[Phoenall]

I'm sorry, what, exactly, is it that you want me to condemn that I have not already most strongly condemned? Shall I say it again?

Here goes:

IF ANY Israeli desires, condones, applauds, cheers, celebrates or otherwise approves of the deliberate targeting and murder of innocent civilian non-combatants I most loudly and firmly condemn that belief system. IF I EVER hear any Israeli or Jew suggest that the deliberate targeting and murder of innocent civilian non-combatants is in anyway desirable or acceptable I will most loudly and publicly condemn that belief system to their faces.

Are we clear?

Yes. You do not condemn the callous celebration of the bombing of Gaza - knowing civilians and children will be among those killed. I'm sorry but I just can not see what is a necessary but regrettable action as worthy of celebration. Celebrating it in such a manner, is nothing more than dehumanizing of the other. because the loss of life becomes entertainment.

I find that disturbing - no matter who it is. Whether it's Vietnam, or Gaza, or Israel. I think it encourages a sense that some lives are less than (civilians). Is that a good thing, or is it excusable because it's war? Does that mean it's ok for Palestinians to celebrate the bombings that target IDF but include massive civilian casualties? Why is celebrating death an excusable thing?

This is what was happening beneath the pretty fireworks (and no, I'm not going to post photos of dead bodies): GZA: A Burning Legacy - White Phosphorus in Gaza - Images | Warrick Page Photography

Are we going back to this again after it was proven to have been used legally and within the guides available at the time. How about you balance it with the reports on hamas sending people out to collect W.P. that was on the ground and to use it as part of the warheads in qassams aimed at Israeli children.

Remember you said google is your friend, well it is there on google that hamas used W.P. illegally after it was taken of the list of legal substances.

It's not my job to prove YOUR claims.

Hamas launches first phosphorus rocket at Negev; no injuries reported

They should be absolutely condemned for it.

Do you condemn Israel's use of white phospherous?

Yes when used illegally, but seeing as it was used as allowed in the IHL and Geneva conventions I cant see any problems. If the Palestinians are stupid enough to run towards the barrage trying to catch some as it falls then they should be sectioned.

 

[Phoenall]

Are we going back to this again after it was proven to have been used legally and within the guides available at the time. How about you balance it with the reports on hamas sending people out to collect W.P. that was on the ground and to use it as part of the warheads in qassams aimed at Israeli children.

Remember you said google is your friend, well it is there on google that hamas used W.P. illegally after it was taken of the list of legal substances.

It's not my job to prove YOUR claims.

Hamas launches first phosphorus rocket at Negev; no injuries reported

They should be absolutely condemned for it.

Do you condemn Israel's use of white phospherous?

White phosphorous shells are not even close to what a phosphorous rocket is.
A phosphorous rocket is designed to melt hardened targets.
A white phosphorus shell is a non lethal smoke bomb designed to mark a location or create a smoke screen.

Even the Red Cross says no problem.

Red Cross: Israel's use of white phosphorus not illegal - Democratic Underground

Now tell us what Palestinians have been arrested for direct violations of the Geneva Conventions for intentionally targeting civilians.

You have decades of history, tell us just one name. Just one. Uno.

But you can't, because Palestinians are all vermin.

Umh...no. Red Cross did NOT say it was no problem. Only not illegal.

ICRC service

Does the use of weapons containing white phosphorous, in particular incendiary weapons, in a populated area give rise to any specific humanitarian concerns?

Yes. White phosphorous weapons spread burning phosphorous, which burns at over 800 degrees centi grade (about 1,500 degrees fahrenheit), over a wide area, up to several hundred square metres. The burning will continue until the phosphorous has been completely depleted or until it no longer is exposed to oxygen. The weapon has a potential to cause particularly horrific and painful injuries or slow painful death. Medical personnel must be specially trained to treat such injuries and may themselves be exposed to phosphorous burns. If used against military targets in or near populated areas, weapons containing this substance must be used with extreme caution to prevent civilian casualties.
​

It is contraindicated in urban areas, particularly when other materials that could do the job more safely, were available.

Israel: White Phosphorus Use Evidence of War Crimes

When used properly in open areas, white phosphorus munitions are not illegal, but the Human Rights Watch report concludes that the IDF repeatedly exploded it unlawfully over populated neighborhoods, killing and wounding civilians and damaging civilian structures, including a school, a market, a humanitarian aid warehouse, and a hospital.


Israel at first denied it was using white phosphorus in Gaza but, facing mounting evidence to the contrary, said that it was using all weapons in compliance with international law. Later it announced an internal investigation into possible improper white phosphorus use. ​

Have any Israeli's been arrested for violating the Geneva Conventions? International law? No.

And HRW once again use recent law changes retrospectively in trying to change public opinion. What authority do they have to declare that Israel was in breach oh IHL and committed war crimes. Even the ICC/ICJ could not find any grounds for arrests for war crimes, which is why the Palestinians dropped their case last year. The ICC/ICJ did say they were looking at Palestinian behaviour for breaches of IHL and were in the process of putting together a case against the Palestinians. The Palestinians squeaked and withdrew the complaint.

No cases were brought to court, but some were left on file for future use.


So under the auspices of the ICC/ICJ Palestine has been accused of war crimes and crimes against humanity, mostly for firing illegal weapons at Jewish civilians. The same can not be said of Israel

 

[Phoenall]

White phospherous produces horrific injuries, and I'm not going to post photographs but you can google it. It's contraindicated for use in urban areas. Israel had alternatives it could have used. Dismissing it, laughing at it because it's just "Palestinian vermin" is disgusting. These are civilians. I don't see anyone jumping up and defending Hamas for firing a WP rocket but people sure jump to Israel's defense.

Only hamas has used W.P. rockets, Israel used shells that air burst.

The UN fact finding mission on the gaza conflict had this to say

"the law is clear that there are some authorized, perfectly valid uses of white phosphorus munitions". Newton mentions legitimate marking of targets and illumination and shielding of movements as common uses. In urban areas, white phosphorus can prevent incendiary leveling of an area by masking movements in order to avoid snipers or explosive devices. However, a legal weapon can be used in an unlawful way. An intentional attack on a playground would be different from an attack on other areas, and thus is ruled by different sets of international law. Protocol I demands proportionality and 'feasible measures' in order to minimize or eliminate damage to civilian lives or property, stating "It [white phosphorus] is not strictly prohibited, but it[s use] has to be done carefully, and tightly controlled and on the basis of a very detailed targeting analysis"


IHL has this to say


There are multiple international laws that could be seen to regulate white phosphorus use.[82] Article 1 of Protocol III of the Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons defines an incendiary weapon as "any weapon or munition which is primarily designed to set fire to objects or to cause burn injury to persons through the action of flame, heat, or combination thereof, produced by a chemical reaction of a substance delivered on the target". The same protocol prohibits the use of said incendiary weapons against civilians (already forbidden by the Geneva Conventions) or in civilian areas. The convention also defines weapons which are not to be considered to be incendiary weapons.

Examples are:

(i) Munitions which may have incidental incendiary effects, such as illuminants, tracers, smoke or signalling systems;
(ii) Munitions designed to combine penetration, blast or fragmentation effects with an additional incendiary effect.
Weapons containing white phosphorus but that are not incendiary weapons are not regulated by the above protocol.

However, the use against military targets outside civilian areas is not explicitly banned by any treaty. The convention is meant to prohibit weapons that are "dependent on the use of the toxic properties of chemicals as a method of warfare" (Article II, Definitions, 9, "Purposes not Prohibited" c.).

 

[Phoenall]

According to HRW report:

• Israel had safer alternatives available for smoke that they manufactured and that DOES NOT BURN.

• If they didn't want those alternatives, they could have opted for ground-exploded white phosphorous, which creates a much more effective smokescreen than shells detonated in the air but they chose NOT employ it.

• It is even questionable as to WHY the military deemed it necessary to create smokescreens since there were no Israeli troops on the ground in those areas at the time.

There were many ways it could have been effectively avoided and the mission accomplished. Why wasn't it and why would you defend the use of something so horrific to civilians caught up in the conflict when there are alternatives? It's like defending terrorism. It's not defensible.

Forgetting the W.P.is also used as a marker for military targets because that would turn their attacks back on themselves

 

[Phoenall]

Given how non-Jews are treated by the Jews in Palestine, it's surprising that any Palestinian Christian or Muslim would not support the attacks on their oppressors. I am sure that very few non-whites in Apartheid South Africa did not support the ANC attacks on the whites.

Is that why so many Palestinian Christians that escaped hamas and fatah are joining the IDF to dole out some payback ?

 

[Picaro]

Why do people keep babbling on about 'a two state solution', as if that never happened???

There already is a 'two state solution', and it turns out nobody wants anything to do with the squatters in Gaza or the West Bank, not even their own countries Egypt and Syria. None of which imposes any obligation on Israel to pander to them or allow them to over-run them.

A 'third state solution' run by terrorists and gangsters is a ridiculous idea.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Why do people keep babbling on about 'a two state solution', as if that never happened???

There already is a 'two state solution', and it turns out nobody wants anything to do with the squatters in Gaza or the West Bank, not even their own countries Egypt and Syria. None of which imposes any obligation on Israel to pander to them or allow them to over-run them.

A 'third state solution' run by terrorists and gangsters is a ridiculous idea.

There are already 3 states--in Israel, Jordan and Gaza. A fourth one would be a disaster.