Mother On the Lam For Right to Let Son Die

[AllieBaba]

And freedom is something the rabid baby killers will never understand, with their Nazi conceptions of what it means to be "civilized".

That's a demonstration of Godwin's Law - you lose.

Ho hum.

 

[Zoom-boing]

religion is the basis for an ADULT to make decisions for themselves. But they can't medically neglect their child.

This idiot is trying to let her 13 year old son die for no reason.

My religion doesn't believe in autopsies. But if someone dies outside of a hospital, they do an autopsy like they would for anyone else. That's life.

Oh I don't know that is what the parents are doing. From what I've read it sounds like the parents are choosing a different course of treatment - holistic - rather than traditional chemo treatment.

thats exactly what they are doing
and in MY opinion they have that right

I agree. From my understanding they aren't walking away and doing nothing, therefore resulting in the (almost) certain death of the child; they are opting for a different, non-traditional course of treatment. And they have every right to do this.

 

[DiveCon]

I don't have blind faith in the courts, sorry. I don't see how a judge is qualified to determine the best medical treatment for a child, and I don't see how a judge has that right in the first place.

The only reason this has gotten this far is because somebody brought the press in. People choose holistic medicine over radical and conventional medicine all the time and nobody raises an eyebrow.

next you will have government ordered gastric bypass for all obese children

 

[AllieBaba]

No. You've got me confused with the OTHER side. I believe people have a right to choose the treatment they want for themselves and their families.

 

[xotoxi]

No, she's opting out of a painful and potentially worthless treatment.

Use of a parachute when sky diving is potentially useless if it malfunctions.

And some people have been known to survive the fall without one.

 

[Zoom-boing]

No, she's opting out of a painful and potentially worthless treatment.

Use of a parachute when sky diving is potentially useless if it malfunctions.

And some people have been known to survive the fall without one.

Why don't the parents have the right to choose a different course of treatment? Why don't they have the right to try an alternative, holistic approach?

 

[YWN666]

And freedom is something the rabid baby killers will never understand, with their Nazi conceptions of what it means to be "civilized".

That's a demonstration of Godwin's Law - you lose.

Ho hum.

Your own ineptitude bores you?

 

[Newby]

Since you were unwilling to answer my question I am going to have to make some assumptions.

Newby thinks the government should force women to give birth.

Newby thinks the government cannot intervene to save a living child's life.

You are the hypocrite in this conversation since you believe a fetus and a thirteen year old are equally living...and yet you have different standards for what the government can and cannot do.

Yeah, you go with that Ravi.

Why don't you just answer as to whether or not you're pro-life and whether or not you support this woman's right to allow her child to die of a treatable cancer so we know which kind of hypocrite YOU are?

I'm a conservative, so I think the government should stay our of our lives as much as possible. When it comes to others having control over life or death decisions of another person's life, then I think they should be able to reasonably intercede. That includes abortion at any stage of pregnancy and in this boy's situation as well.

I see this as hypocrisy from your point of view because in the case of abortion, you are allowing the mother that life or death choice over her child. In this boy's case, the mother is indeed in that situation as well, altho I really don't believe she means the boy harm obviously. She is being unreasonable, and I of course would never make such a decision regarding my children. We agree on this issue. I don't see how you can give the mother of the unborn baby a life or death decision over her child's life if you're not willing too in this case. And in this case, the boy is able to voice his choice as well, and it is supposedly based on religious belief, it's much more of a grey area than abortion is. With abortion, the baby has no voice whatsoever.

 

[AllieBaba]

Remind us again how a 13 year old Pregnant Girl can CHOSE to ABORT but a 13 year old boy with Cancer can not CHOSE to not have the treatment YOU want him to have.

That decision is between the girl, her parents and their private physician, not the law.

That's like saying honor killings are between the man, his wife, and his spiritual advisor.

Also, the fact that if a 13 year old girl is pregnant, someone has broken a law by having sex with her in the first place is conveniently ignored by the assholes who like forcing medical treatment and abortions on young kids.

 

[AllieBaba]

That's a demonstration of Godwin's Law - you lose.

Ho hum.

Your own ineptitude bores you?

No, your trolling does, however.

 

[DiveCon]

No, she's opting out of a painful and potentially worthless treatment.

Use of a parachute when sky diving is potentially useless if it malfunctions.

And some people have been known to survive the fall without one.

should the sky diver have the choice of which chute he/she wishes to use, or do you want the government mandating that choice also?

 

[Care4all]

No, she's opting out of a painful and potentially worthless treatment.

Do you know what other medical issues he has?

DO YOU?

I am CERTAIN in the hearing, with the doctors and judge, whatever his medical conditions were, were brought up.... do you think they were not considered?

potentionally worthless with a 95% chance survival rate?????

if the doctors testifying had said a 50/50 chance of survival then they may NOT have forced this in the manner they did...and i would be siding with the parent's right if this were the case, BUT IT IS NOT the case....

what in the world has gotten in to you allie?

so, if the goverment wanted to give a specific treatment to one of your children, you would be ok with it no matter what it was?

i seem to think you wouldnt

But THAT statement of YOURS is NOT the case in this situation, is it Dive? This isn't ANY TREATMENT, this is a treatment that has a 95% chance of keeping this child or my child ALIVE, verses near NO CHANCE of keeping him alive through holistic measures.

I don't think the government should come in and make medical decisions for all of us or most of us or some of us....

I do think there are exceptions to the rule, where they might have to...such as not allowing you to commit suicide via your doctor's medicine...or in this case where this human being, has a 95% survival rate if he takes the medical treatment, where there is no holistic measures that have ever cured it, where the person is a child and can not make the medical decision for themselves, and where the parents seem to have no logical reasoning in their decision making process or proof that doing what they want, has as good a chance as chemo, to truly save their child's life.

Knowing that holistic measures have not ever shown to cure hodgkins disease?

I don't understand what you are fighting for...? Are you really fighting for the parents right to basically kill their child through the lack of medical treatment?

If the child's arm was cut off in an accident, would it be okay for the parents to let their child lay there and bleed to death while waiting for the Shaman or medicine man to show up and say some prayers to heal him?

Would the government had been wrong in insisting the child with the arm cut off be sent to the hospital for care that would save his life?

Care

 

[AllieBaba]

So you think everyone who chooses holistic medicine for their children in cases of cancer should have medical treatment forced upon their children?

 

[xotoxi]

I don't have blind faith in the courts, sorry. I don't see how a judge is qualified to determine the best medical treatment for a child, and I don't see how a judge has that right in the first place.

The only reason this has gotten this far is because somebody brought the press in. People choose holistic medicine over radical and conventional medicine all the time and nobody raises an eyebrow.

The judge will only make a ruling based on facts, and will lean towards the facts which will give the child the greatest chance of survival.

The facts will be presented by expert witnesses.

On one side, the expert witness will be an oncologist, who will describe the course of treatment and the rate of survival.

The expert witness for the other side will be a naturopath or a Native American herbalist, who will not produce any facts, but only anectodal evidence and theories.

The judge will rule that chemotherapy will be performed as the facts will prove that chemotherapy shows the greatest likelihood of survival and the lowest risk of death.

 

[AllieBaba]

How many judges have you known?

I know one who made his last ruling by flipping a coin. The judge has no place in determining what medical treatment a family is forced to use.

As I said...do you think all the parents who choose holistic over conventional for their kids should be rounded up now? Because Canada and Britain will be in a world of hurt if you do....

 

[xotoxi]

No, she's opting out of a painful and potentially worthless treatment.

Use of a parachute when sky diving is potentially useless if it malfunctions.

And some people have been known to survive the fall without one.

should the sky diver have the choice of which chute he/she wishes to use, or do you want the government mandating that choice also?

My analogy is not regarding government mandates, but rather the stupidity of chosing a treatment which will result in death, versus chosing a treatment which has a high survival rate.

 

[xotoxi]

No, she's opting out of a painful and potentially worthless treatment.

Use of a parachute when sky diving is potentially useless if it malfunctions.

And some people have been known to survive the fall without one.

Why don't the parents have the right to choose a different course of treatment? Why don't they have the right to try an alternative, holistic approach?

Because it will result in the death of the child.

 

[DiveCon]

Use of a parachute when sky diving is potentially useless if it malfunctions.

And some people have been known to survive the fall without one.

Why don't the parents have the right to choose a different course of treatment? Why don't they have the right to try an alternative, holistic approach?

Because it will result in the death of the child.

you have medical proof of that?
holistic medicine hasnt cured anyone of cancer before?

 

[DiveCon]

DO YOU?

I am CERTAIN in the hearing, with the doctors and judge, whatever his medical conditions were, were brought up.... do you think they were not considered?

potentionally worthless with a 95% chance survival rate?????

if the doctors testifying had said a 50/50 chance of survival then they may NOT have forced this in the manner they did...and i would be siding with the parent's right if this were the case, BUT IT IS NOT the case....

what in the world has gotten in to you allie?

so, if the goverment wanted to give a specific treatment to one of your children, you would be ok with it no matter what it was?

i seem to think you wouldnt

But THAT statement of YOURS is NOT the case in this situation, is it Dive? This isn't ANY TREATMENT, this is a treatment that has a 95% chance of keeping this child or my child ALIVE, verses near NO CHANCE of keeping him alive through holistic measures.

I don't think the government should come in and make medical decisions for all of us or most of us or some of us....

I do think there are exceptions to the rule, where they might have to...such as not allowing you to commit suicide via your doctor's medicine...or in this case where this human being, has a 95% survival rate if he takes the medical treatment, where there is no holistic measures that have ever cured it, where the person is a child and can not make the medical decision for themselves, and where the parents seem to have no logical reasoning in their decision making process or proof that doing what they want, has as good a chance as chemo, to truly save their child's life.

Knowing that holistic measures have not ever shown to cure hodgkins disease?

I don't understand what you are fighting for...? Are you really fighting for the parents right to basically kill their child through the lack of medical treatment?

If the child's arm was cut off in an accident, would it be okay for the parents to let their child lay there and bleed to death while waiting for the Shaman or medicine man to show up and say some prayers to heal him?

Would the government had been wrong in insisting the child with the arm cut off be sent to the hospital for care that would save his life?

Care

the parents are not choosing suicide, they are choosing an alternative method that has worked in other cases

i still say the parents have that right

 

[xotoxi]

Conservatives:

If I choose to give my child only 2 glasses of orange juice and 5 saltines each day, because that's what I think he should eat...do you think the government should intervene?