Murderer Chauvin loses appeal

[Ghost of a Rider]

Chauvin’s weight was calculated by the Cardiologist who testified in the trial, and how much pressure was on the neck. It was more than enough to restrict blood flow according to the testimony.

Chauvin’s body weight is only part of the story. The question is: How much of his body weight was on Floy’s neck?

Did they actually address that question?

Testimony that the Defense did not present a witness to challenge, and didn’t do much to counter during cross.

There’s no accounting for idiot attorneys. Just look at the criticism being leveled at Trump’s attorneys.

Mistakes do happen. And I am all for correcting mistakes. However, I can’t get worked up that someone missed something in a case like this.

A case where half the country, including some of our elected representatives, had declared Chauvin guilty before the trial?

I’m sorry, but I most definitely take that into account.

The Defense Coroner said he would rule the death undetermined. No clear cause. That was his direct testimony when called by the Defense. His Cross Examination was death to the entire case for Chauvin. He sank Chauvin.

In other words, the prosecution questioned the ME’s findings, which is precisely what I am being criticized for in this discussion.

I’ve watched a lot of trials. A few in person, and more than a few online. I’ve read books about them. The best outcomes for the defense always come when the Defense actively challenges every piece of evidence. It worked for many public defendants over the years. OJ for one, Rittenhouse, and even the Bundy’s.

But in none of the cases did the Defense win when they did a half hearted job. Some cases were half hearted because the evidence was so strong. Others were that way because they just didn’t have the funding. Chauvin had the funding. The evidence against him was just that strong.

Possibly. But I’m still not ruling out the overbearing pressure from politicians and society to hang Chauvin..

Team Chauvin put forth a couple experts who tried to throw doubt on the Prosecution’s case. The Coroner we’ve discussed to death. The other was a Use of Force expert. The expert was just as bad for Chauvin as the Coroner was. The expert testified that Chauvin was using a common technique. Used hundreds of times a day.

It’s probably not surprising that they put forth a lackluster defense if they knew society at large wanted to hang their client and that a not guilty verdict would likely spur riots that put the others to shame.

Everyone knew full well that a not guilty verdict would have resulted in massive riots.

Use-of-force expert testifies that Chauvin justified in deadly arrest of Floyd

Defense attorneys in the murder trial of Derek Chauvin on Tuesday called an expert witness who testified that the former Minneapolis police officer was justified and reasonable in his use of force during his arrest of George Floyd.

www.reuters.com

The cross examination was again brutal. The Prosecution asked the expert to identify the resistance when Floyd was unconscious. The expert couldn’t.

No one can identify resistence when the person is unconscious for Christ’s sake. The resistence came before that which is why they had him on the ground in the first place.

So the Defense Experts couldn’t spin the story that Chauvin was justified. They tried, God bless them, they tried. But they came off as weak and sort of mealy mouthed.

Because they were idiots.

They should never have tried to prove justification for the knee because there was none. They instead should have focused on trying to make the prosecution prove that this was how Floyd died.

The question came down to this. Would Floyd have died if Chauvin didn’t kneel on him? The answer was a resounding almost certainly not. While anything is possible, Floyd dying without the actions of Chauvin, is an extremely remote possibility.

So was dying because of drugs, a highly agitated state and a severe heart condition.

That’s where our Legal System comes in. To convict, the jury has to be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt. After hearing the evidence, I don’t have much in the way of doubts, much less any I would consider reasonable. I can see where the Jury didn’t have any reasonable doubts either.

I, of course, have my doubts. Because with the 24/7 media coverage and politicians and half the country calling for Chauvin’s lynching, it was likely damn near impossible to get a fair trial.

The first round of Appeals has run, and nobody, including the Supreme Court, has found a reason to overturn the verdict. Now, if you doubt the conclusions of experts, then you have paths to explore.

You just told me one expert was doubted by non-experts (the prosecution). What makes my doubt any different?

Those paths are the appeals process. And round one has been done, and denied. This isn’t always the case.

One of those cases I mentioned I read about, was the trial of Jim Williams in my own local area, Savannah. Jim Williams was first tried for Murder and got a hung jury. He got a second trial, and was convicted, but the conviction was overturned and returned for a retrial by the Appeals Court. The third trial, where local legend lawyer Sonny Seiler took the defense, was an acquittal.

And yet, some are still wrongly convicted and/or imprisoned anyway.

Seiler created doubt in the minds of the Jurors, by challenging every piece of evidence. He showed the scientific evidence, like residue on the hands, was contaminated by sloppy police work. He showed that the evidence at the scene had been collected poorly as well, as evidenced by the Police’s own photographs and reports.

Sonny Seiler created a reasonable doubt that the story told by the Prosecution was true. Jim Williams was acquitted.

Now. I’m in favor of acquittals. I’m one of those who was taught, and firmly believes that it is better for a thousand guilty men to go free, than one innocent man go to prison. So I wholeheartedly support acquittals. I even supported the acquittal of the Bundy’s, people who I have called asshats many times.

I watch the trials, and when I can’t watch, I read the synopsis, and sometimes even watch the summaries of important testimony. I can usually get a feeling before the trial is over what is going to happen. Sometimes I know the outcome before the trial is held. One example of that is the McMichaels of Brunswick Georgia.

To Chauvin again. I knew he would be found guilty. And I knew why he looked like a deer in the headlights through the whole process. People claim he was sacrificed to the BLM, Leftists, ANTIFA, and whatever groups. That’s not true. Oh Chauvin was Sacrificed. But not to the Left. Chauvin was sacrificed to White Middle Class America.

Who wanted a sacrifice to appease BLM.

The Police were not about to explain that Chauvin had many complaints, of which most were upheld for violating policy. They were not going to explain that Chauvin had knelt on people until they passed out before. They were not going to explain why Chauvin was still a cop. They were not going to admit that while they “reprimanded” Chauvin they had patted him on the back. Thus encouraging his brutality as a good thing while teaching him the rules were bullshit that had to be mouthed, but not taken seriously.

No doubt Chauvin is a prick but I cannot discount the public’s anger against law enforcement in general and the drugs and heart condition.

Chauvin was set up. But not by BLM, or any of the others. He was set up by his superiors and peers. People who ran from him as this story broke. People who abandoned him to the wolves.

But that is always the case when someone knowingly breaks the rules because they think the rules are stupid. Look at Racing. NASCAR has long been the example of this. Cheating to win, and coming up with ways not to get caught. Want a bigger fuel tank? Put a basketball in the tank, inflate it, and then fill it up. When the Stewards and officials drain the tank to check the volume they find it meets the rules. Then the crew chief deflates the ball, removes it, and has an extra gallon of gas, or more, inside. Adjustable deflectors, and the list is almost endless.

Cheating is done all the time. And we celebrate the winners who don’t get caught. And all those patting the winner on the back are suddenly absent when their luck runs out. They rush to the microphones and declare they can’t believe that good old Bob would do that. They’re shocked. Sometimes you can mistake their press conferences as Cartoons when they go all Foghorn Leghorn.

In this, and nearly every case, the guy did it. He got caught finally, and it couldn’t be swept under the rug. It was too big. Too many people knew. So the guy is thrown to the wolves, but not to placate the obvious enemies. To placate the middle class white folks.

The people the Police need to keep thinking they’re the good guys who would never imagine cheating like Derek did. The people who are sitting on the jury and refusing to even consider that the cops might be lying when they say they found drugs in the car. That is who Derek Chauvin was sacrificed to placate. To keep up the illusion that the disturbing view of Chauvin kneeling on a man as he died, doesn’t happen with the rest of the cops.

It doesn’t happen with the rest of the cops. The illusion is thinking that it does.

Chauvin was never a hero. He was a thug with a badge. He never should have been a cop. They should have fired him a long time ago, and handed him a card to truck driving school. But they kept him in the department and on the street. And eventually his luck ran out. Chauvin did what he had done many times before, and this time, it killed someone.

As bad a cop as he was, it still doesn’t prove his actions killed Floyd.

You’re giving me character assessment, not proof of murder.

The end was not inevitable. It was however a result of not taking reform and enforcing the rules seriously on the cops who worked for the bosses. If you can’t offer the policy your full throated and whole hearted support, you can’t expect your officers to obey those rules. When they break the rules, which you think are Liberal bullshit, you turn a blind eye. You minimize it. You downplay it, doing just enough to cover your own ass. Why yes I reprimanded Chauvin for it. He knows not to do it again. Wink wink and a pat on the back.

Perhaps. But again, none of this is proof.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

If I come across a man dying on the street and instead of helping him I kneel on his neck until he is dead I am going to be prosecuted.

Would you know the man was dying?

You’re assuming the officers knew this.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

So you believe the medical expert is wrong yet you don't question his expertise in his field and you don't think he lied?

Exactly.

Think about that a minute and you just might grasp what I’m saying.

 

[Robert W]

We all watched as a man was struggling to breathe while Chauvin just sat there for 9.5 minutes with his knee on his neck.

On doesn't need a M.E. to understand what he did needed punished.

If What Chauvin did was not per his training, the other cops would have gone to him and told him to stop. He was supported by a number of other cops.

 

[Robert W]

If I come across a man dying on the street and instead of helping him I kneel on his neck until he is dead I am going to be prosecuted.

Here is the thing. We who chomp at the bit to put Chauvin in prison do not know where the knee was placed. Was it on muscle? Was any arteries under the knee? We have other testimony by medical experts that Chauvin had drug issues that were more likely to kill him than actions by the cops.

 

[Curried Goats]

Guys just so you know Ghost of a Rider also thinks the McMichaels were defending themselves when they shot Ahmaud Arbery. For context. He's just a deplorable mutant racist. You're not going to convince him with objective reality. He can't even admit in the objective truth that venerators of Washington venerate a slaver even as we all know that objectively Washington was a slaver.

 

[pknopp]

Would you know the man was dying?

You’re assuming the officers knew this.

We saw the video. People were yelling it to him. He kneeled there for 9.5 minutes because no one was going to tell him what to do.

 

[pknopp]

Here is the thing. We who chomp at the bit to put Chauvin in prison do not know where the knee was placed. Was it on muscle? Was any arteries under the knee? We have other testimony by medical experts that Chauvin had drug issues that were more likely to kill him than actions by the cops.

If a man is dying and instead of helping him I decide to kneel on his neck until he dies, it matters none the exact place I put my knee, I'm going to be prosecuted.

 

[pknopp]

If What Chauvin did was not per his training, the other cops would have gone to him and told him to stop. He was supported by a number of other cops.

And they were prosecuted also.

 

[Dadoalex]

Supreme court rejects Chauvin’s appeal of George Floyd murder conviction

Decision affirms Minneapolis ex-police officer’s conviction for second-degree murder and sentence of over 20 years in prison

www.theguardian.com

Its a joke that he was allowed to appeal his sentence for murdering Mr Floyd. It must have been awful for the Floyds to relive this.
We all saw what happened. They should incrase the sentence for wasting court time.

Chauvin Stabbed in prison​

 

[the watcher]

We saw the video.

Oh yes, the we saw the video power play. The 4 word bestower of righteousness, queller of dissent, and the mother of all closers. By the way, he was stabbed in custody yesterday, condition serious.

 

[pknopp]

Oh yes, the we saw the video power play.

It was a simple video concerning the facts of what was happening.

The 4 word bestower of righteousness, queller of dissent, and the mother of all closers. By the way, he was stabbed in custody yesterday, condition serious.

And I said there is no excuse for the lax conditions in our prisons. I fully support the prosecution of whoever did it.

 

[KissMy]

Chauvin Stabbed in prison​

View attachment 863678

Convicted Prisoner Derek Chauvin is receiving lifesaving care, unlike how he prevented care to limp body of restrained cuffed suspect George Floyd.

 

[JoeB131]

The Grand Kleagle speaks again.

How much weight would be needed and did Chauvin apply that much weight with one knee?

There’s a million questions that are not being answered here and to me, some of these answers might very well mean the difference between guilt and innocence.

Not really. You see, we have the whole incident on video, from multiple angles. It isn't like the good old days when the cops could claim he hit his head on the door or any of the other horseshit they used to claim.

No doubt Chauvin at the very least should have been reprimanded for using an improper procedure. But I cannot discount the tremendous political, public and social pressure to hang Chauvin.

Except his very pricy lawyers had every opportunity to screen the jury for bias.

As pointed out to Xchaos, Maxine Waters and other politicians and celebrities were screaming for a guilty verdict even before the trial started. Half the country wanted to lynch Chauvin and you don’t think that could have been an influencing factor?

Maxine Waters wasn't on the jury. I don't think any of the jurors, half of whom were white, got up that morning and said, "Gee, I wonder what Maxine Waters thinks about this?"

Have you ever heard of the case of the West Memphis Three?

If you haven’t, let me tell you; if you have, let me remind you: Three young men were wrongly convicted for the rape and murder of three little boys and were sentenced to life plus forty years; life in prison and to death, respectively.

Guess whose flawed autopsy and testimony helped get these guys wrongly convicted? That’s right, the medical examiner’s.

The point is, no one - not even medical examiners - is immune to outside pressure and the pressure and emotions in this case were especially weighty.

Was there video of the West Memphis Three doing the crime?

There was video of Chauvin doing the crime.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

American prisons seem to be horrific places. Full of savage murderers like Chauvin. Sad.

 

[JoeB131]

Not deliberately with a pillow. It’s a flawed analogy.

Actually, it's a spot on analogy. Your argument was that Floyd was a sick man who would have succumbed to his heart condition. The Angel of Mercy Nurse could claim the patient she killed was going to succumb to his disease. Neither argument works because their intervening action caused early death.

Irrelevant.

Not really. Your whole "I got a bypass because of my privilege, so it's Floyd's own fault he didn't get one" is flawed when you consider he probably didn't have health insurance or saw a doctor regularly. CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE!!!

You don’t know that.

Actually, I pretty much do... It was on video and everything.

You don’t know that.

See above.

Coroners and juries have been wrong before.

And yet this isn't what Chauvin argued. Chauvin Argued that there was undue influence by the public and he should have gotten a change in venue. He did not present any evidence that the coroners or jury got it wrong.

Now, if a juror came out and said, "I really thought he was innocent, but I was really scared of the angry black people outside the courthouse", he MIGHT have an argument. But none of them said that.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/28/us/derek-chauvin-george-floyd-trial-jurors/index.html#:~:text='No%20room%20for%20error%20at%20all'&text=The%20jurors%20deliberated%20for%20more,about%20three%20weeks%20of%20testimony.

Seven jury members told CNN’s Don Lemon their verdict in the most important trial of the Black Lives Matter era was based solely on the evidence, not their views on race.

The gruesome video of Chauvin pressing his knee on Floyd’s neck for more than nine minutes as the Black man cried out that he couldn’t breathe is seared into their minds, they said. Some have sought counseling and therapy.
When all agreed on guilty of manslaughter, some panel members began to play devil’s advocate and suggested they discuss the defense arguments. Those arguments were enumerated on a whiteboard.

“I absolutely wanted to make sure that everyone was on the same page,” Belton Hardeman said. “I wanted to make sure that we were doing due diligence and that we actually understood what our task was. There was no room for error at all.”

Read the whole article... this jury couldn't have been more conscientious and diligent.

 

[JoeB131]

Guys just so you know @Ghost of a Rider also thinks the McMichaels were defending themselves when they shot Ahmaud Arbery. For context. He's just a deplorable mutant racist. You're not going to convince him with objective reality. He can't even admit in the objective truth that venerators of Washington venerate a slaver even as we all know that objectively Washington was a slaver.

Oh, we all know his record, he's never seen a case of police misconduct against a black person he wasn't all for.

 

[JoeB131]

Convicted Prisoner Derek Chauvin is receiving lifesaving care, unlike how he prevented care to limp body of restrained cuffed suspect George Floyd.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/24/us/derek-chauvin-stabbed-prison-george-floyd/index.html

 

[XponentialChaos]

Exactly.

Think about that a minute and you just might grasp what I’m saying.

I don’t get what you’re saying. How can you not question the expertise of the doctor, believe he’s wrong, and not think he’s lying? Please clarify.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

Guys just so you know Ghost of a Rider also thinks the McMichaels were defending themselves when they shot Ahmaud Arbery.

I said no such thing.

To begin with, “they” didn’t shoot Arbery, Travis did. Secondly, the video proves that Travis shot Arbery when Arbery tried to take his gun from him.

For context. He's just a deplorable mutant racist.

Subjective opinion and hyperbole.

You're not going to convince him with objective reality. He can't even admit in the objective truth that venerators of Washington venerate a slaver even as we all know that objectively Washington was a slaver.

Never denied Washington owned slaves.