Muslims are our friends but Islam is the enemy of Western Civilization?

[Mr.Fitnah]

A superhero who blows himself up is news.

 

[gautama]

A good thread turned into shit by puerile humour. Actually, even more stupid than that.

 

[Sunni Man]

One of our close family members was in France last year and inadvertently wandered into one of the Muslim "ghettos". She definitely felt like she was being personally threatened and felt lucky to retreat and get out of the area unscathed. She is reasonably certain that had she lingered, she would not have been so fortunate.

Have her walk thru Harlem USA and see how long it is before she is shot and robbed.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Have them walk through Mecca .

 

[Sunni Man]

Have them walk through Mecca .

There wouldn't be any problem, because they would not be allowed into the city.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Thanks for making my point.

 

[Sunni Man]

Thanks for making my point.

What was your point??

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Islam is a supremacy ideology where non muslims are not equal.

 

[Sunni Man]

Islam is a supremacy ideology where non muslims are not equal.

So Islam is a supremacy ideology because it doesn't allow tourists into one small city called Mecca??

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

That is one element,
another being:
Noble Qur’an 2:190 Footnote: “Jihad is holy fighting in Allah’s Cause with full force of numbers and weaponry. It is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of its pillars. By Jihad Islam is established, Allah’s Word is made superior (which means only Allah has the right to be worshiped), and Islam is propagated. By abandoning Jihad Islam is destroyed and Muslims fall into an inferior position; their honor is lost, their lands are stolen, their rule and authority vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim. He who tries to escape from this duty, or does not fulfill this duty, dies as a hypocrite.”


The passage itself can be found in two places. It is on page 39 of the Noble Qur’an translation by Muhammad Khan and distributed by “King Fahd Complex for the Printing of the Holy Qur’an—The Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques. It is a footnote to Qur’an 2.190 and is designed to explain Jihad according to Allah.
And it can be found on page 580 of the Islamic University of Medina’s translation of Sahih al-Bukhari’s Hadith. There it opens Bukhari’s Book of Jihad.

In both cases, the Islamic scholars are condensing Allah’s and Muhammad’s teachings on Jihad to a single paragraph.

 

[Sunni Man]

That is one element,
another being:
Noble Qur’an 2:190 Footnote:

A footnote is just an opinion of a text; nothing more than that.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

And it can be found on page 580 of the Islamic University of Medina’s translation of Sahih al-Bukhari’s Hadith. There it opens Bukhari’s Book of Jihad.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

That is one element,
another being:
Noble Qur’an 2:190 Footnote:

A footnote is just an opinion of a text; nothing more than that.

Im sure if the grand mufti of Saudi Arabia or who ever runs the “King Fahd Complex" for the Printing of the Holy Qur’an—The Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques did not agree with the opinion, they would have altered or removed the opinion perhaps they included it to make it clear.

What do you think?

 

[Sunni Man]

What you have is a footnote from the Wahhabi school of Sunni Islam.

It reflects the opinion of Wahhabi scholars in Saudi Arabia.

As you well know Mr Fitnuts; there are several schools of Islamic thought both in Sunni and Shia.

But you like to use the most radical school of Islamic thought because it backs up your Islamophobic agenda.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

I have already posted the orthodox Sufi opinion on jihad.

Ibn Abi Zayd al-Qayrawani (d. 996), Maliki jurist 1



Jihad is a precept of Divine institution. Its performance by certain individuals may dispense others from it. We Malikis [one of the four schools of Muslim jurisprudence] maintain that it is preferable not to begin hostilities with the enemy before having invited the latter to embrace the religion of Allah except where the enemy attacks first. They have the alternative of either converting to Islam or paying the poll tax (jizya), short of which war will be declared against them.



Ibn Taymiyya (d. 1328), Hanbali jurist 2



Since lawful warfare is essentially jihad and since its aim is that the religion is God’s entirely and God’s word is uppermost, therefore according to all Muslims, those who stand in the way of this aim must be fought. As for those who cannot offer resistance or cannot fight, such as women, children, monks, old people, the blind, handicapped and their likes, they shall not be killed unless they actually fight with words (e.g. by propaganda) and acts (e.g. by spying or otherwise assisting in the warfare).



From (primarily) the Hanafi school (as given in the Hidayah) 3



It is not lawful to make war upon any people who have never before been called to the faith, without previously requiring them to embrace it, because the Prophet so instructed his commanders, directing them to call the infidels to the faith, and also because the people will hence perceive that they are attacked for the sake of religion, and not for the sake of taking their property, or making slaves of their children, and on this consideration it is possible that they may be induced to agree to the call, in order to save themselves from the troubles of war… If the infidels, upon receiving the call, neither consent to it nor agree to pay capitation tax, it is then incumbent on the Muslims to call upon God for assistance, and to make war upon them, because God is the assistant of those who serve Him, and the destroyer of His enemies, the infidels, and it is necessary to implore His aid upon every occasion; the Prophet, moreover, commands us so to do.



al-Mawardi (d. 1058 ), Shafi’i jurist 4



The mushrikun [infidels] of Dar al-Harb (the arena of battle) are of two types: First, those whom the call of Islam has reached, but they have refused it and have taken up arms. The amir of the army has the option of fighting them…in accordance with what he judges to be in the best interest of the Muslims and most harmful to the mushrikun… Second, those whom the invitation to Islam has not reached, although such persons are few nowadays since Allah has made manifest the call of his Messenger…t is forbidden to…begin an attack before explaining the invitation to Islam to them, informing them of the miracles of the Prophet and making plain the proofs so as to encourage acceptance on their part; if they still refuse to accept after this, war is waged against them and they are treated as those whom the call has reached….



In Khaldun (d. 1406), jurist (Maliki), renowned philosopher, historian, and sociologist, summarized these consensus opinions from five centuries of prior Muslim jurisprudence with regard to the uniquely Islamic institution of jihad:



In the Muslim community, the holy war is a religious duty, because of the universalism of the [Muslim] mission and [the obligation to] convert everybody to Islam either by persuasion or by force...The other religious groups did not have a universal mission, and the holy war was not a religious duty for them, save only for purposes of defense...Islam is under obligation to gain power over other nations.

 

[Sunni Man]

A footnote is still just a footnote; ie., an opinion.

What does the Quran specifically say about Jihad that applies to today?

And not to some past situation, time, or place.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Here is the chatper on Jihad from the Classic manual of sacred Islamic law Umdat al-Salik certified by Al-Azhar University.
It has some commentary from the poster
Knowing Islam: Jihad and Islamic Peace as in Sharia law.
@O9.6
It is offensive to conduct a military expedition against hostile non-Muslims without the caliph's permission (A: though if there is no caliph (def: o25), no permission is required).

(This at the best is obfuscation. Koran literally says Non Muslims are always enemies of Allah and Muslims. Non Muslims are the vilest of all creation. Any way who are hostile Non Muslims? The simple answer is: The ones who do not convert to Islam after Muslims tell them to embrace Islam; you will understand this as you read.)

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

A footnote is still just a footnote; ie., an opinion.

What does the Quran specifically say about Jihad that applies to today?

And not to some past situation, time, or place.

Nothing has changed.
Fight until only muslims remain .

 

[Sunni Man]

What part of this do you not understand?

The Quran is the one and only ultimate authority in Islam.

Everything else is just opinions by various schools of thought and scholars.

So again; what does the Quran say about Jihad as it applies to today?

And not to some other situation, time or place.

Only to today.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

What part of this do you not understand?

The Quran is the one and only ultimate authority in Islam.

Everything else is just opinions by various schools of thought and scholars.

So again; what does the Quran say about Jihad as it applies to today?

And not to some other situation, time or place.

Only to today.

You not suggesting you disagree with this are you?

Noble Qur’an 2:190 Footnote: “Jihad is holy fighting in Allah’s Cause with full force of numbers and weaponry. It is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of its pillars. By Jihad Islam is established, Allah’s Word is made superior (which means only Allah has the right to be worshiped), and Islam is propagated. By abandoning Jihad Islam is destroyed and Muslims fall into an inferior position; their honor is lost, their lands are stolen, their rule and authority vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim. He who tries to escape from this duty, or does not fulfill this duty, dies as a hypocrite.”

And If so what part, based on what scripture?