My Body, My Choice

[Oldguy]

The same thing should apply to STDs. If someone chooses to be promiscuous, it's their choice and we should not be paying for their medical care and abortions. If someone chooses to take drugs, there is no procedural difference between ingesting drugs and ingesting fat food. They should pay for their own medical care or die.

Their choice, their cost.

Why not also people who sky-dive, rock-climb, jog, drive fast, lay on the couch and don't exercise, decline to take prescriptions, don't sleep enough, eat "too much" red meat, work "too many" hours, aren't married, don't have kids? Each of those also have physical and mental health consequences too, so we shouldn't have to pay for their healthcare either, right?

See where that kind of thinking can lead? "Oh, no," you say. "That will never happen!"

Really? Once upon a time we never thought we'd be having this conversation about fat people either...but here we are.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

They do. If they pay for insurance. Obesity is largely an affliction of the poor. Not that NO wealthy people are overweight, there certainly are. There are some skinny poor people too. But as a class, the poorer a person is, the more likely they are to be overweight. The poor are on medicaid or some sort of state provided medical care. They don't pay premiums. Drug addicts don't pay for medical care, if they live on the street you pay for their medical care.

How true.. I had this discussion with a guy who wondered how it is that poor people tend to be so overweight... it is a mater of education. next time you are at the grocery, look at what they purchase... tons of cheep soda, cheap, fatty cuts of meat, lot's of junk food, etc.

It isn't a matter of education at all. No amount of education is going to convince poor people to eat that salad instead of the chocolate cupcake. There's a reason why all that fat food is called comfort food.

Poor people eat food like that because it tastes good, it is very filling, and they deserve it. They can't afford a vacation at Orlando's Disneyworld, but they can afford a couple of doughnuts. They deserve this minor indulgence because they have no other way of rewarding themselves. They can't afford that lean porterhouse steak, but they can afford hamburger or bacon. This isn't a matter of education. Educate the poor until the cows jump over the moon and it won't change their feelings.

Well, I dunno know about that... as a younger man, I ate a lot of Wendy's and other processed crap. But hey, I had a metabolism that could burn off heavy metals! Over time we learned a lot more about nutrition and I tend to rarely eat Wendy's, I eat smaller, more frequent meals, more fruits, fish, less red meats, more beans, less rice & breads, etc.

I think education plays a part in this.. but yes.. some people are just gonna eat crap no matter what.

 

[ArmyCowboy]

How true.. I had this discussion with a guy who wondered how it is that poor people tend to be so overweight... it is a mater of education. next time you are at the grocery, look at what they purchase... tons of cheep soda, cheap, fatty cuts of meat, lot's of junk food, etc.

It isn't a matter of education at all. No amount of education is going to convince poor people to eat that salad instead of the chocolate cupcake. There's a reason why all that fat food is called comfort food.

Poor people eat food like that because it tastes good, it is very filling, and they deserve it. They can't afford a vacation at Orlando's Disneyworld, but they can afford a couple of doughnuts. They deserve this minor indulgence because they have no other way of rewarding themselves. They can't afford that lean porterhouse steak, but they can afford hamburger or bacon. This isn't a matter of education. Educate the poor until the cows jump over the moon and it won't change their feelings.

Well, I dunno know about that... as a younger man, I ate a lot of Wendy's and other processed crap. But hey, I had a metabolism that could burn off heavy metals! Over time we learned a lot more about nutrition and I tend to rarely eat Wendy's, I eat smaller, more frequent meals, more fruits, fish, less red meats, more beans, less rice & breads, etc.

I think education plays a part in this.. but yes.. some people are just gonna eat crap no matter what.

Drop the fruits and start adding the rice (brown) again.

You'll thank me.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

It isn't a matter of education at all. No amount of education is going to convince poor people to eat that salad instead of the chocolate cupcake. There's a reason why all that fat food is called comfort food.

Poor people eat food like that because it tastes good, it is very filling, and they deserve it. They can't afford a vacation at Orlando's Disneyworld, but they can afford a couple of doughnuts. They deserve this minor indulgence because they have no other way of rewarding themselves. They can't afford that lean porterhouse steak, but they can afford hamburger or bacon. This isn't a matter of education. Educate the poor until the cows jump over the moon and it won't change their feelings.

Well, I dunno know about that... as a younger man, I ate a lot of Wendy's and other processed crap. But hey, I had a metabolism that could burn off heavy metals! Over time we learned a lot more about nutrition and I tend to rarely eat Wendy's, I eat smaller, more frequent meals, more fruits, fish, less red meats, more beans, less rice & breads, etc.

I think education plays a part in this.. but yes.. some people are just gonna eat crap no matter what.

Drop the fruits and start adding the rice (brown) again.

You'll thank me.

Ha ha.. I love my bananas and brown rice tastes like dirt! To me that is...

 

[Newby]

Well, I dunno know about that... as a younger man, I ate a lot of Wendy's and other processed crap. But hey, I had a metabolism that could burn off heavy metals! Over time we learned a lot more about nutrition and I tend to rarely eat Wendy's, I eat smaller, more frequent meals, more fruits, fish, less red meats, more beans, less rice & breads, etc.

I think education plays a part in this.. but yes.. some people are just gonna eat crap no matter what.

Drop the fruits and start adding the rice (brown) again.

You'll thank me.

Ha ha.. I love my bananas and brown rice tastes like dirt! To me that is...

I have to agree about the brown rice, I started using it recently to be eating healthier, but I really don't like it.

 

[t_polkow]

Then we just stop medical care for those who abuse prescription drugs.

Look at it realistically, what level of control is necessary to keep people from being overweight? Banning the sale of sugary drinks and transfats doesn't do it. You can't control what people eat or drink just by banning a few sales. The government would have to determine the appropriate caloric intake for each person and find some method of making sure that each individual eats only that amount and is punished if they exceed the mandated amount. But that's only half the battle against fat. There needs to be a mandatory exercise program and some sort of biometric reader to make sure that the person actually does those exercises.

You can simply deny any medical care to the obese because their condition is their own fault. But it cannot stop there. Every person who causes their own condition should also be denied medical care. The skiier who breaks a leg should be left on the mountaintop. The sailor whose boat capsizes at sea. The 15 year old girl who got pregnant. The rape victim or robbery victim who voluntarily walked down that dark alley. Close the drug rehab centers and certainly no treatment for the alcoholic.

In Singapore chewing gum was banned for decades because chewing gum caused tooth decay and when the public pays for dental care, they have to right to ban chewing gum. There is no end to it, not really. That's what the judge told Bloomberg. There is no end to government control if it is exerted in the name of public good.

I don't agree with Bloomberg's approach nor do I agree to stopping medical care for those who are overweight, etc.

I do believe that people who contribute to their own health problems should pay higher health insurance premiums than those who live healthier lifestyles, though.

They do. If they pay for insurance. Obesity is largely an affliction of the poor. Not that NO wealthy people are overweight, there certainly are. There are some skinny poor people too. But as a class, the poorer a person is, the more likely they are to be overweight. The poor are on medicaid or some sort of state provided medical care. They don't pay premiums. Drug addicts don't pay for medical care, if they live on the street you pay for their medical care.

The Real Reason Why Poor People Are Fat

Professor and obesity researcher, Dr. Adam Drewnowski set out to determine why income is the most reliable predictor of obesity in the U.S. To do this, he took a hypothetical dollar to the grocery store. His goal was to purchase as many calories as possible per dollar.




What he found is that he could buy well over 1,000 calories of cookies or potato chips. But his dollar would only buy 250 calories of carrots. He could buy almost 900 calories of soda… but only 170 calories of orange juice.

If you are poor and hungry, you are obviously going to buy the cheapest calories you can find. And in today’s world, the cheapest calories come from junk foods – whether those foods are found at the grocery store, the gas station, or in the fast food restaurant, conveniently located just down the street.

But this raises another question. How can industrially-processed foods and their associated marketing costs be so much cheaper than real, whole foods produced from water, seeds and sunlight?

In a New York Times article, author Michael Pollan asks this very question…

“Compared with a bunch of carrots, a package of Twinkies is a highly complicated, high-tech piece of manufacture, involving no fewer than 39 ingredients, many themselves elaborately manufactured, as well as the packaging and a hefty marketing budget. So how can the supermarket possibly sell a pair of these synthetic cream-filled pseudo-cakes for less than a bunch of roots?”

Pollan goes on to answer his own question…

“The Twinkie is basically a clever arrangement of carbohydrates and fats teased out of corn, soybeans and wheat — three of the five commodity crops that the farm bill supports, to the tune of some $25 billion a year.

The primary reason that lower-income people are more overweight is because the unhealthiest and most fattening foods are the cheapest. If you were broke and had just three dollars to spend on food today, would you buy a head of broccoli or a Super Value Meal with French fries, a cheeseburger and a Coke?

Because you’re reading this publication, you might choose the former. But for most people who have very little to spend on food, the choice is clear.

And make no mistake. This does not represent a failure of the capitalist free-market system. Modern agri-business and government food policy represents a perverted version of capitalism – crony capitalism – where those with the most money and the most powerful friends in government control the markets.

What they have done is use your tax dollars to subsidize certain commodity crops (at the expense of others) to ensure that the cost of oils, sugar and grains stay artificially low. With low input costs, food manufacturers can turn a tidy profit. The end result is that processed foods – even though they require more technology, more labor and more marketing to produce and sell – are cheaper to the consumer than real, whole foods.

Consider that between 1985 and 2000, the inflation-adjusted prices of fruits and vegetables increased by an average of 40%. During the same period of time the real price of soft drinks fell by almost 25%.


Low-income neighborhoods frequently lack full-service grocery stores and farmers’ markets where residents can buy a variety of fruits, vegetables, whole grains, and low-fat dairy products (Beaulac et al., 2009; Larson et al., 2009). Instead, residents – especially those without reliable transportation – may be limited to shopping at small neighborhood convenience and corner stores, where fresh produce and low-fat items are limited, if available at all. One of the most comprehensive reviews of U.S. studies examining neighborhood disparities in food access found that neighborhood residents with better access to supermarkets and limited access to convenience stores tend to have healthier diets and reduced risk for obesity (Larson et al., 2009).
When available, healthy food is often more expensive, whereas refined grains, added sugars, and fats are generally inexpensive and readily available in low-income communities (Drewnowski, 2010; Drewnowski et al., 2007; Drewnowski & Specter, 2004; Monsivais & Drewnowski, 2007; Monsivais & Drewnowski, 2009). Households with limited resources to buy enough food often try to stretch their food budgets by purchasing cheap, energy-dense foods that are filling – that is, they try to maximize their calories per dollar in order to stave off hunger (Basiotis & Lino, 2002; Drewnowski & Specter, 2004; Drewnowski, 2009). While less expensive, energy-dense foods typically have lower nutritional quality and, because of overconsumption of calories, have been linked to obesity (Hartline-Grafton et al., 2009; Howarth et al., 2006; Kant & Graubard, 2005).
When available, healthy food – especially fresh produce – is often of poorer quality in lower income neighborhoods, which diminishes the appeal of these items to buyers (Andreyeva et al., 2008; Zenk et al., 2006).