My Problem with Pro-Life and Anti-Gay People

[Avatar4321]

So we should be free to do what we want, unless it's oppose abortion and then our first amendment rights to freedom of religion should be violated for whatever you find convenient.

 

[chikenwing]

As it states in the title, I have a serious problem with people who are against gays and are pro-life. Personally, I believe that gays should be able to marry because this is America, land of the free, where people are allowed to love and marry and not submit to the authority of one faith (Christianity *cough* *cough*), as guaranteed by separation of church and state and the 1st amendment. As such, gays are Constitutionally guaranteed the right to marry. Just as long as churches are permitted to deny them service (religious freedom) I am okay with it. If gays have problems finding pastors/priests, they could find other solutions and hold it in a park or something with a friend giving vows.
Same follows for abortion. While I believe abortion itself is wrong, actually, I see no problem with contraceptives and believe Christians lack the right to invoke the 1st amendment on their behalf in regards to that. I say that if Christians want that, then they have to legalize abortion to balance things. You know, for a religion that seems to invoke the 1st at every step of the way, they seem awfully keen to impose their faith on others and take their freedom away. My justification for contraceptives? Catholicism defines life as starting from conception till death. Their is no life, therefore, to destroy by using contraceptives. Plus, this takes away the need for abortions because contraceptives are now even easier to have access to, so one could feel entirely justified in telling someone they can't have an abortion. Just tell them, "Well. Sorry 'bout your luck. Shoulda been prepared."
As I have stated, people who hate gays and oppose contraceptives are hypocrites. Same goes for people on the opposite side who plead the exact same but mirrored in reverse against Christians.

Same goes for people on the opposite side who plead the exact same but mirrored in reverse against Christians.
__________________
The very thing you just did??!!

 

[sfcalifornia]

So we should be free to do what we want, unless it's oppose abortion and then our first amendment rights to freedom of religion should be violated for whatever you find convenient.

That's a stupid statement.

You're allowed to oppose all you want. And we're allowed to ridicule you for it.

And vice versa.

And in the end, abortion is here to stay.

 

[BlindBoo]

So we should be free to do what we want, unless it's oppose abortion and then our first amendment rights to freedom of religion should be violated for whatever you find convenient.

Who is stopping you from opposing abortion? I believe that you should be able to speak freely about your beliefs. You shouldn't be able to impose your religious beliefs on others.

 

[bodecea]

As it states in the title, I have a serious problem with people who are against gays and are pro-life. Personally, I believe that gays should be able to marry because this is America, land of the free, where people are allowed to love and marry and not submit to the authority of one faith (Christianity *cough* *cough*), as guaranteed by separation of church and state and the 1st amendment. As such, gays are Constitutionally guaranteed the right to marry. Just as long as churches are permitted to deny them service (religious freedom) I am okay with it. If gays have problems finding pastors/priests, they could find other solutions and hold it in a park or something with a friend giving vows.
Same follows for abortion. While I believe abortion itself is wrong, actually, I see no problem with contraceptives and believe Christians lack the right to invoke the 1st amendment on their behalf in regards to that. I say that if Christians want that, then they have to legalize abortion to balance things. You know, for a religion that seems to invoke the 1st at every step of the way, they seem awfully keen to impose their faith on others and take their freedom away. My justification for contraceptives? Catholicism defines life as starting from conception till death. Their is no life, therefore, to destroy by using contraceptives. Plus, this takes away the need for abortions because contraceptives are now even easier to have access to, so one could feel entirely justified in telling someone they can't have an abortion. Just tell them, "Well. Sorry 'bout your luck. Shoulda been prepared."
As I have stated, people who hate gays and oppose contraceptives are hypocrites. Same goes for people on the opposite side who plead the exact same but mirrored in reverse against Christians.

Ah

Creag an Fhitich.

 

[chikenwing]

So we should be free to do what we want, unless it's oppose abortion and then our first amendment rights to freedom of religion should be violated for whatever you find convenient.

Who is stopping you from opposing abortion? I believe that you should be able to speak freely about your beliefs. You shouldn't be able to impose your religious beliefs on others.

what does abortion have to do with religion?? Its doesn't it has to do with life AND THE RESPECT IT DOESN'T GET FROM THE PRO ABORTION CROWD.

 

[freedombecki]

So you basically stand for nothing? Do I have that correct?

I stand for finding a solution that will let all parties win somewhat and end the argument so everyone will just shut up on the matter.

A solution including the preborn infant?

Sure you do, blackbird.

And Gay Marriage and abortion are two quite different subjects, FYI. The only thing they share remotely is breaking common sense in two.

 

[g5000]

As it states in the title, I have a serious problem with people who are against gays and are pro-life. Personally, I believe that gays should be able to marry because this is America, land of the free, where people are allowed to love and marry and not submit to the authority of one faith (Christianity *cough* *cough*), as guaranteed by separation of church and state and the 1st amendment. As such, gays are Constitutionally guaranteed the right to marry. Just as long as churches are permitted to deny them service (religious freedom) I am okay with it. If gays have problems finding pastors/priests, they could find other solutions and hold it in a park or something with a friend giving vows.
Same follows for abortion. While I believe abortion itself is wrong, actually, I see no problem with contraceptives and believe Christians lack the right to invoke the 1st amendment on their behalf in regards to that. I say that if Christians want that, then they have to legalize abortion to balance things. You know, for a religion that seems to invoke the 1st at every step of the way, they seem awfully keen to impose their faith on others and take their freedom away. My justification for contraceptives? Catholicism defines life as starting from conception till death. Their is no life, therefore, to destroy by using contraceptives. Plus, this takes away the need for abortions because contraceptives are now even easier to have access to, so one could feel entirely justified in telling someone they can't have an abortion. Just tell them, "Well. Sorry 'bout your luck. Shoulda been prepared."
As I have stated, people who hate gays and oppose contraceptives are hypocrites. Same goes for people on the opposite side who plead the exact same but mirrored in reverse against Christians.

I hope you are not conflating people who are against gay marriage and people who are pro-life.

I am okay with gay marriage and I am pro-life.

I willl address your points about contraceptives.

Just because you do not have a religious or moral objection against contraception that does not mean no one else can or does. It is a simple fact the Catholic Church, among other faiths, has a very clear anti-contraception position. You seem to think it has something to do with abortion, but that is not the basis of their objection. It is about the cheapening of life and the destruction of moral behavior and interference in God's will.

You cannot decide what someone's religious beliefs are. That is the whole point.

I would never want to see our government force Muslims to serve alcohol if that violates their religious beliefs. Just because I see nothing wrong with pouring a beer for someone else, that does not mean a Muslim's dogma is invalid. I might think it is dumb, but that is again irrelevant. A Muslim not serving alcohol in no way impinges on my rights. But forcing a Muslim to serve alcohol would impinge on his.

Just so with forcing a Christian to serve someone a contraceptive. A Christian not serving you contraceptives in no way impinges on your rights, but forcing a Christian to serve contraceptives would impinge on his. The liberals have you confused on this point, as if it does violate your rights, somehow, for a Christian not to give you the Pill.

Holy smokes, that's some seriously deranged thinking.

But even on the secular level, the idea of the government dictating to an employer what benefits they must provide to their employees is viscerally abhorrent to me. This is what is at the very root of what is wrong with the liberal outlook toward so many things in our society.

Employer-employee relations should not be forced to extend beyond an exchange of labor or services for cash. All responsibility for the employee should end there for the employer. If the employer does not provide enough cash to the employee so the employee can meet all of their wants and needs, then we have a cash problem, not a contraception problem!

Contraception is a want, not a need, by the way. Just so we are clear on that.

I don't believe the government should even be incentivizing employer-sponsored health insurance with massive tax exemptions the way it does now. This distorts and inflates the living hell out of health care costs.

You should be buying health insurance the same way you buy life, fire, home, and auto insurance. That we are now at the point of actually forcing religious employers to serve contraception against their moral code just highlights the perniciousness that has poisoned our country by increments.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Separation of church and state:

Amendment 1:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Can you read the first part of the sentence? Congress (government) will not make laws respecting an establishment of religion (anti-gay marriage bigotry misguidedly based on the Bible), nor prohibit the free exercise thereof (we won't tax your silly cult into third world poverty as long as you stay out of the public government).

That is the separation of church and state. It's pretty fucking obvious even thought it doesn't specifically use the words "separation of church and state". It means keep your silly cult out of our laws and we'll keep our laws off of your silly cult.

Now, dumbass, tell me EXACTLY how this has one thing to do with "separation of "Church and State"? It CLEARLY states that the government can NOT ESTABLISH ANY religion. NEVER does it say that the government CAN NOT participate in any religious activity.

This is not England. We CAN NOT have a "STATE RELIGION". That's all it says.

OR PROHIBIT THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF.

I guess you are incapable of reading THAT part, aren't you?

Typical left wing marxists. It only says what YOU want it to say - sort of like the 2nd amendment, huh?

Someone needs to teach you a thing or two about RESPECT. Go to school.

As if school teaches respect.

Respect is earned.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

So we should be free to do what we want, unless it's oppose abortion and then our first amendment rights to freedom of religion should be violated for whatever you find convenient.

Who is stopping you from opposing abortion? I believe that you should be able to speak freely about your beliefs. You shouldn't be able to impose your religious beliefs on others.

Wanting to protect the sanctity of life is purely a religious thing?

 

[007]

MAN doesn't decide what marriage is, GOD does, and GOD said that marriage is the holy union between a MAN and a WOMAN.

He also said that homosexuality was an abomination, and that man should not lie with a man as a woman.

So it's not up to man to define marriage. Homos want the benefits a moral marriage like a man and a woman have, take the civil union and shut the fuck up.

 

[g5000]

Think hard about the precedent being set. The argument is being made that a religious employer should be forced to do something against their moral code, and that if they don't like it they should just get out of business.

Okay. Let's pass a law that requires employers to issue an assault weapon to every employee.

 

[bodecea]

Duly noted. No one is allowed to think or do anything that YOU don't agree with.

Let me guess - you work for OKCupid......

No, it is only Christians who think that way.

Come out as gay in an Islamic country and see how long you live.....

Ah yes the "You are lucky we don't kill you like the moooslims do" gambit.

 

[bodecea]

MAN doesn't decide what marriage is, GOD does, and GOD said that marriage is the holy union between a MAN and a WOMAN.

He also said that homosexuality was an abomination, and that man should not lie with a man as a woman.

So it's not up to man to define marriage. Homos want the benefits a moral marriage like a man and a woman have, take the civil union and shut the fuck up.

So people who do not believe in your god are not really married, eh?

 

[g5000]

MAN doesn't decide what marriage is, GOD does

Actually, the State decides. For example, when interracial marriages were finally legalized, God didn't decide that. The State did.

This issue is in the "render unto Caesar" category, not in the "unto God" category.

 

[BlindBoo]

So we should be free to do what we want, unless it's oppose abortion and then our first amendment rights to freedom of religion should be violated for whatever you find convenient.

Who is stopping you from opposing abortion? I believe that you should be able to speak freely about your beliefs. You shouldn't be able to impose your religious beliefs on others.

what does abortion have to do with religion?? Its doesn't it has to do with life AND THE RESPECT IT DOESN'T GET FROM THE PRO ABORTION CROWD.

Some people believe a soul enters a human at conception. Others don't believe in a soul at all and think it's like trimming weeds..........

 

[BlindBoo]

So we should be free to do what we want, unless it's oppose abortion and then our first amendment rights to freedom of religion should be violated for whatever you find convenient.

Who is stopping you from opposing abortion? I believe that you should be able to speak freely about your beliefs. You shouldn't be able to impose your religious beliefs on others.

Wanting to protect the sanctity of life is purely a religious thing?

Depends on what you mean by sanctity of life. Who's life? My life? Your life. Her life? The life of the free floating zygote trying to attach itself to a uterus? The life of a 26 week old fetus?

But for the record I was addressing Avatar who seems to be quite religious.

 

[BlindBoo]

MAN doesn't decide what marriage is, GOD does, and GOD said that marriage is the holy union between a MAN and a WOMAN.

He also said that homosexuality was an abomination, and that man should not lie with a man as a woman.

So it's not up to man to define marriage. Homos want the benefits a moral marriage like a man and a woman have, take the civil union and shut the fuck up.

God, I love you religionist.

Did you or someone you know hear HER say that?

What would SHE have said if Jesus turn out to be gay?

 

[Jarhead]

Oh contrare. People can think whatever they want. I am stating my opinion and my proposal as a possible solution to this mess.
And who the hell is OKCupid?

Oh, and before I forget...Show me where this "Separation of Church and state" bullshit is.....I have YET to see the STATE form ANY religion.

Not state forming religion, but the other way around. Christianity believes it has the power to bludgeon all people in the US into conforming to some of their old-fashioned and rigid beliefs. That is WRONG, as state should remain clear from religious influence.

The Church has their opinion...just as you and I do.
The real "mess" as you put it is when those that follow a certain faith are told that they have to compromise those beliefs by allowing their tax money to pay for contraceptives or abortions...and it would be UNAMERICAN for the church to NOT be allowed to speak out on it.

Those guided by religion are not asking for others to follow what they do. They simply ask others to NOT force them to follow what THEY do.

Now, I am a conservative and I am not guided by religion...so I have no issue with gay marriage and whereas I think abortion is wrong, I do not condemn it.

Your problem is you don't understand the other side. In my case, the other side is the religious right and whereas I do not agree with them, I applaud their convictions for I understand where they are coming from.

 

[Jarhead]

MAN doesn't decide what marriage is, GOD does, and GOD said that marriage is the holy union between a MAN and a WOMAN.

He also said that homosexuality was an abomination, and that man should not lie with a man as a woman.

So it's not up to man to define marriage. Homos want the benefits a moral marriage like a man and a woman have, take the civil union and shut the fuck up.

Correct me if I am wrong...

But weren't the 10 commandments the only "writings" ever offered up directly from God?

Arent all other "words from God" actually the words of a messenger of God?

That being said, where in the 10 commandments does it say homosexuality is an abomination?