My problem with the NFL re: National Anthem

[ChrisL]

 

[Flash]

Your problem with the NFL re: the National Anthem is exactly the same as every dumbass rube's problem. You don't understand what the protest is about and you don't understand what the flag represents.

Saying "there are other ways to protest" is really stupid and fails to recognize the importanct role that protests play in our society.

We understand very well what the "protest" is about. It is about a bunch of dumbass privileged brain damaged assholes being butt hurt because we have a President that won on a platform to make this country great again after eight years of that Obama disaster.

These same idiots that won't honor this country are all millionaires that would be on welfare, in jail or flipping burgers if it wasn't for this country being great.

Most of them have brain damage.

If they weren't so brain damaged and if they really gave a shit about anything they would be protesting the Democrat leadership in Chicago where Black people are murdered everyday. They would be protesting the failure of the Black community to get their act together and stop killing each other and killing White people. They would be protesting the damage that Obama did to this country by increasing poverty, decreasing family income, increasing income disparity, tremendous debt and having dismal economic growth.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Now what I just discussed pertains to the CBF design, not the CBF as a flag. As a flag, it's a whole different thing. A flag, any flag, is rallying symbol, both physically and ideologically, and all that "baggage" is what's rallied around. Flags, pennants and banners symbolically identify a set of values and beliefs and when hoisted on a pole, stick, whatever, say "Yo! Here we are. We stand for the stuff represented by the symbology on our flag, and we're proud of it."

That is point of a flag: to more visibly make known one's presence and association with a set of ideas. The difference between a flag and a badge is a difference of volume. Flags are all about hollering at the top of one's lungs.

Yes, of course, one can play ignorant and say "oh, no, I don't mean 'all that,'" but that one doesn't is irrelevant because regardless of what one as an individual may or may not mean, that flag, it's imagery, does mean "all that." Symbolically, a flag is encompases and transcends the person displaying it and one cannot separate oneself from the flag's symbolism. Maybe "over the garden fence" with one's neighbor one can. Walking down the street, one cannot.

The question is WHO DEFINES what a flag represents?

It is not the fringe kookburgers that try to hijack it and whose opponents gleefully agree to give it to those fringe elements, no.

The millions of people who fought under that flag, who bled and died for it, who worked their fingers to the bone to support it, who use it in ceremonies year after year for centuries, THEY DEFINE WHAT THAT FLAG MEANS.

Not a bunch of FBI informants and Soros hirelings trying to be legit to a bunch of racists.

Edit: this is my last response to this subject on this thread as I dont want to hijack it.

The question is WHO DEFINES what a flag represents? It is not the fringe kookburgers that try to hijack it and whose opponents gleefully agree to give it to those fringe elements, no. The millions of people who fought under that flag, who bled and died for it, who worked their fingers to the bone to support it, who use it in ceremonies year after year for centuries, THEY DEFINE WHAT THAT FLAG MEANS.

Among the "baggage" of the CBF is that it represented this:

The prevailing ideas entertained by [Thomas Jefferson] and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old constitution, were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically....Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the government built upon it fell when the “storm came and the wind blew.”

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.
Source​

That is "baggage" with which I will broker no association.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Does the NFL Require Players to Stand for the National Anthem?

Here's what the game operations manual says regarding the national anthem, according to an NFL spokesperson:

The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.

During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.​

So the NFL has grounds to fine these asstards, but simply chooses not to.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Per the NFL rulebook:

1. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country.

Why do you not respect the flag or our country. Our country is the people. There are other ways to show your discontent with the President. People take not standing up for the flag as an insult on the United States as a unit. It makes people feel that you don't want to be here or don't like the unit as a whole (not just the administration) - and there are a lot of people that worked hard to build the US that are still alive today. There are a lot of people young and old that have risked their lives for the United States.

STFU you fucking hypocrite, I bet you've NEVER stood up at home when you hear a national anthem.

I'm usually not watching the game when it's being played, but, no, I would not you are correct. But when I am at the events I always do (and I also sing along, which I'm sure is QUITE offensive to those around me!)

So you're a hypocrite. Now you know.

Wanna be sure I got this straight....you support the right for players to protest against something, but you do not support her eright to say she doesn't like it - and she is the hypocrite?

That's pretty funny.

She's complaining about something other people don't do, when she doesn't even do it herself. And I never said anything about her right to be wrong, just like you. Go ahead, you already have some momentum.

Wait...Bonzi plays for the NFL too????????????
Wow - what team?

 

[Manonthestreet]

Remember when Dallas wanted to honor the cops BLM killed......and the NFL prevented that......

Fake news. BLM killed no cops.

Just another lie

 

[g5000]

Your problem with the NFL re: the National Anthem is exactly the same as every dumbass rube's problem. You don't understand what the protest is about and you don't understand what the flag represents.

Saying "there are other ways to protest" is really stupid and fails to recognize the importanct role that protests play in our society.

Maybe, but you are also slapping in the face all those that fight/fought for our country and built it. Whether that is your intent or not

I served for 20+ years on active duty. The flag represents more than us vets. It represents every citizen of our country.

I get a little ticked off at sporting events when I see someone who doesn't know to stand and respect the flag during the national anthem. Most of those dumb fucks aren't making a point, though. They are just ignorant fucks.

But if someone is deliberately taking a knee to make a point, my respect for freedom of speech has to override my emotional reaction. That's what makes America exceptional. That is what I fought for.

Our apprentice tyrant doesn't get that.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Your problem with the NFL re: the National Anthem is exactly the same as every dumbass rube's problem. You don't understand what the protest is about and you don't understand what the flag represents.

Saying "there are other ways to protest" is really stupid and fails to recognize the importanct role that protests play in our society.

Maybe, but you are also slapping in the face all those that fight/fought for our country and built it. Whether that is your intent or not

I served for 20+ years on active duty. The flag represents more than us vets. It represents every citizen of our country.

I get a little ticked off at sporting events when I see someone who doesn't know to stand and respect the flag during the national anthem. Most of those dumb fucks aren't making a point, though. They are just ignorant fucks.

But if someone is deliberately taking a knee to make a point, my respect for freedom of speech has to override my emotional reaction. That's what makes America exceptional. That is what I fought for.

Our apprentice tyrant doesn't get that.

What workplace allows this kinda stuff? Do that anywhere I have worked and you'd be shown the door.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Your problem with the NFL re: the National Anthem is exactly the same as every dumbass rube's problem. You don't understand what the protest is about and you don't understand what the flag represents.

Saying "there are other ways to protest" is really stupid and fails to recognize the importanct role that protests play in our society.

Maybe, but you are also slapping in the face all those that fight/fought for our country and built it. Whether that is your intent or not

I served for 20+ years on active duty. The flag represents more than us vets. It represents every citizen of our country.

I get a little ticked off at sporting events when I see someone who doesn't know to stand and respect the flag during the national anthem. Most of those dumb fucks aren't making a point, though. They are just ignorant fucks.

But if someone is deliberately taking a knee to make a point, my respect for freedom of speech has to override my emotional reaction. That's what makes America exceptional. That is what I fought for.

Our apprentice tyrant doesn't get that.

What workplace allows this kinda stuff? Do that anywhere I have worked and you'd be shown the door.

Bullshit. If you are worth a shit to an employer you will stay right where you are.

In any case, the employers here have condoned the protest. What part of that don't you get?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I see photos like the one in your post, Hutch Starskey, and I'm reminded that people want us to believe that the Confederate flag wavers aren't espousing hatred and bigotry. In turn, I wonder just how stupid are the people who say that is so, but I know the answer: stupid enough to think the rest of us believe sh*t when they utter it.

I used to have the CBF displayed at my home in MD, and when a neighbor complained to me personally about it and explained why, I took it down and put it in my closet.

My sole reason for displaying the flag was that I am a military history fan, and I enjoy reading about the Civil War and displayed the flag as a reminder of that war.

Others, like the Sons of Confederate Veterans display their flags in annual ceremonies honoring the Civil War dead of both sides.

You really shouldnt play Kreskin and try to read the minds of other people whose pics you see on the internet.

There's no ambiguity about the intentions of the flag bearers in the subject photo.

View attachment 151235

Thank you.

I couldn't think of something polite to say in response to Jim's comment, so I just didn't post anything.

They have the same right to carry those flags as the players do in speaking their minds. Hiowever, the flagbearers are in an actual protest, not standing on a field getting ready to do their job.

Since when does protesting and self expression have temporal requirements?

It does, because when you are employed, you have no freedom of speech or expression except that granted to you by your employer.

I am sorry that the NFL Commissioner has his head so far up his own ass that he cannot see the consequences of pissing off a large portion of his company's patrons.

I guess I will just have to become a Cowboys fan as their owner is apparently the only man and the rest are just metrosexuals and women.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Do you believe it's respectful of the flag to wave a confederate battle flag at all?

You do realize tat waving a Confederate Battle flag would be considered the same type of protest you are supporting? There is no difference.

Let me try waving a Confederate Battle flag at work and see what happens to me!

There is a huge difference. That's the point.

OK, Lucy, why don't you 'splain it to me, preferably in English.

Done earlier in the thread. Try reading it before jumping in and jabbering cluelessly.

Sorry! Nothing you have posted makes any sense to anyone with an elementary school education. Try again!

Especially when you haven't read the thread.

 

[petro]

Mn Vikings set the example. All stood for the Anthem. Will the NFLs ass follow?

I now respect them a little more.

 

[usmbguest5318]

I used to have the CBF displayed at my home in MD, and when a neighbor complained to me personally about it and explained why, I took it down and put it in my closet.

My sole reason for displaying the flag was that I am a military history fan, and I enjoy reading about the Civil War and displayed the flag as a reminder of that war.

Others, like the Sons of Confederate Veterans display their flags in annual ceremonies honoring the Civil War dead of both sides.

You really shouldnt play Kreskin and try to read the minds of other people whose pics you see on the internet.

There's no ambiguity about the intentions of the flag bearers in the subject photo.

View attachment 151235

Thank you.

I couldn't think of something polite to say in response to Jim's comment, so I just didn't post anything.

They have the same right to carry those flags as the players do in speaking their minds. Hiowever, the flagbearers are in an actual protest, not standing on a field getting ready to do their job.

Since when does protesting and self expression have temporal requirements?

It does, because when you are employed, you have no freedom of speech or expression except that granted to you by your employer.

I am sorry that the NFL Commissioner has his head so far up his own ass that he cannot see the consequences of pissing off a large portion of his company's patrons.

I guess I will just have to become a Cowboys fan as their owner is apparently the only man and the rest are just metrosexuals and women.

To the NFL and to all the team owners, as long as you are a fan of some team, it doesn't matter much which team. NFL ticket revenue is shared among teams and so long as you watch NFL games on television or WWW, or listen on the radio you'll be counted among the viewership that gives rise to broadcast revenue which is the NFL teams' single largest source of revenue.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

I couldn't think of something polite to say in response to Jim's comment, so I just didn't post anything.

Dont really want to derail this thread, but do you seriously think that everyone flying the CBF has only one purpose for doing so?

That is very simplistic.

I think about what the flag -- any flag; it doesn't matter whether its the CSA flag or another one -- unequivocally has represented over the years and infer that by dint of their willful display of the flag in question, the individual must necessarily be okay with associating him-/herself with those ideas along with whatever personal motivations s/he may have. Why do I think that way? Because if one were not proud of and keen to align with all the "baggage" a flag or other image, slogan, or symbol carries, one would choose a different pennant or image or symbol or whatever.

For instance, from a graphic design standpoint, I think the CBF is a pretty combination of shapes and colors. I'd even go so far as to say that from a graphic design standpoint, it's more handsome to my eye than is the American flag. Be that as it may, I am aware of what that particular arrangement of shapes and colors represents beyond being merely, for lack of a better term, fashion item or decorative accessory like a shirt print, curtains, upholstery, or vase.

All that "baggage" that accompanies the CBF, well, I don't ascribe to it; thus I'm not about to display it anywhere, nor will I allow myself to be willfully associated with that "baggage." Does that mean I won't be able to wear, say, a shirt that graphically I think looks cool? Yes, it does mean that. But you know what. My life will not be incomplete as a result. It is hardly the only f*cking pattern that I think handsome.

Now what I just discussed pertains to the CBF design, not the CBF as a flag. As a flag, it's a whole different thing. A flag, any flag, is rallying symbol, both physically and ideologically, and all that "baggage" is what's rallied around. Flags, pennants and banners symbolically identify a set of values and beliefs and when hoisted on a pole, stick, whatever, say "Yo! Here we are. We stand for the stuff represented by the symbology on our flag, and we're proud of it."

That is point of a flag: to more visibly make known one's presence and association with a set of ideas. The difference between a flag and a badge is a difference of volume. Flags are all about hollering at the top of one's lungs.

Yes, of course, one can play ignorant and say "oh, no, I don't mean 'all that,'" but that one doesn't is irrelevant because regardless of what one as an individual may or may not mean, that flag, it's imagery, does mean "all that." Symbolically, a flag is encompases and transcends the person displaying it and one cannot separate oneself from the flag's symbolism. Maybe "over the garden fence" with one's neighbor one can. Walking down the street, one cannot.

You have more patience than I do. I would never take the time to explain that. As an adult, your point goes without saying for me.
It's the same reason that "very fine people" don't march with the Klan.

 

[usmbguest5318]

I couldn't think of something polite to say in response to Jim's comment, so I just didn't post anything.

Dont really want to derail this thread, but do you seriously think that everyone flying the CBF has only one purpose for doing so?

That is very simplistic.

I think about what the flag -- any flag; it doesn't matter whether its the CSA flag or another one -- unequivocally has represented over the years and infer that by dint of their willful display of the flag in question, the individual must necessarily be okay with associating him-/herself with those ideas along with whatever personal motivations s/he may have. Why do I think that way? Because if one were not proud of and keen to align with all the "baggage" a flag or other image, slogan, or symbol carries, one would choose a different pennant or image or symbol or whatever.

For instance, from a graphic design standpoint, I think the CBF is a pretty combination of shapes and colors. I'd even go so far as to say that from a graphic design standpoint, it's more handsome to my eye than is the American flag. Be that as it may, I am aware of what that particular arrangement of shapes and colors represents beyond being merely, for lack of a better term, fashion item or decorative accessory like a shirt print, curtains, upholstery, or vase.

All that "baggage" that accompanies the CBF, well, I don't ascribe to it; thus I'm not about to display it anywhere, nor will I allow myself to be willfully associated with that "baggage." Does that mean I won't be able to wear, say, a shirt that graphically I think looks cool? Yes, it does mean that. But you know what. My life will not be incomplete as a result. It is hardly the only f*cking pattern that I think handsome.

Now what I just discussed pertains to the CBF design, not the CBF as a flag. As a flag, it's a whole different thing. A flag, any flag, is rallying symbol, both physically and ideologically, and all that "baggage" is what's rallied around. Flags, pennants and banners symbolically identify a set of values and beliefs and when hoisted on a pole, stick, whatever, say "Yo! Here we are. We stand for the stuff represented by the symbology on our flag, and we're proud of it."

That is point of a flag: to more visibly make known one's presence and association with a set of ideas. The difference between a flag and a badge is a difference of volume. Flags are all about hollering at the top of one's lungs.

Yes, of course, one can play ignorant and say "oh, no, I don't mean 'all that,'" but that one doesn't is irrelevant because regardless of what one as an individual may or may not mean, that flag, it's imagery, does mean "all that." Symbolically, a flag is encompases and transcends the person displaying it and one cannot separate oneself from the flag's symbolism. Maybe "over the garden fence" with one's neighbor one can. Walking down the street, one cannot.

You have more patience than I do. I would never take the time to explain that. As an adult, your point goes without saying for me.
It's the same reason that "very fine people" don't march with the Klan.

You have more patience than I do.

TY

I think you're mistaken, but I'm not going to argue with you about it. LOL I'll be honest. "Patient" is not something I'm much called. LOL I think perhaps I just type fast. LOL

It's the same reason that "very fine people" don't march with the Klan.

It is exactly that.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

You do realize tat waving a Confederate Battle flag would be considered the same type of protest you are supporting? There is no difference.

Let me try waving a Confederate Battle flag at work and see what happens to me!

There is a huge difference. That's the point.

OK, Lucy, why don't you 'splain it to me, preferably in English.

Done earlier in the thread. Try reading it before jumping in and jabbering cluelessly.

Sorry! Nothing you have posted makes any sense to anyone with an elementary school education. Try again!

Especially when you haven't read the thread.

I read the thread. The fact you think you can discern whether I have or not speaks volumes about your own incompetence.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

There's no ambiguity about the intentions of the flag bearers in the subject photo.

View attachment 151235

Thank you.

I couldn't think of something polite to say in response to Jim's comment, so I just didn't post anything.

They have the same right to carry those flags as the players do in speaking their minds. Hiowever, the flagbearers are in an actual protest, not standing on a field getting ready to do their job.

Since when does protesting and self expression have temporal requirements?

It does, because when you are employed, you have no freedom of speech or expression except that granted to you by your employer.

I am sorry that the NFL Commissioner has his head so far up his own ass that he cannot see the consequences of pissing off a large portion of his company's patrons.

I guess I will just have to become a Cowboys fan as their owner is apparently the only man and the rest are just metrosexuals and women.

To the NFL and to all the team owners, as long as you are a fan of some team, it doesn't matter much which team. NFL ticket revenue is shared among teams and so long as you watch NFL games on television or WWW, or listen on the radio you'll be counted among the viewership that gives rise to broadcast revenue which is the NFL teams' single largest source of revenue.

If all other teams make zero, and Dallas makes less because of that, so be it! I doubt very seriously my following one or two teams will impact as much as if I had been watching any game that just happened to be on.

Right now, I watch college football. The pros are acting like spoiled brats, and I despise that. A 5-star recruit told my alma mater's coach that he was not getting enough playing time, so the coach granted his wish. He kicked him off the team so now he doesn't play at all and won't for a year and a half! Then he has to find another team that will put up with his ego.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

There is a huge difference. That's the point.

OK, Lucy, why don't you 'splain it to me, preferably in English.

Done earlier in the thread. Try reading it before jumping in and jabbering cluelessly.

Sorry! Nothing you have posted makes any sense to anyone with an elementary school education. Try again!

Especially when you haven't read the thread.

I read the thread. The fact you think you can discern whether I have or not speaks volumes about your own incompetence.

Then why ask the question?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

OK, Lucy, why don't you 'splain it to me, preferably in English.

Done earlier in the thread. Try reading it before jumping in and jabbering cluelessly.

Sorry! Nothing you have posted makes any sense to anyone with an elementary school education. Try again!

Especially when you haven't read the thread.

I read the thread. The fact you think you can discern whether I have or not speaks volumes about your own incompetence.

Then why ask the question?

That's for me to know, and you to respond.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Done earlier in the thread. Try reading it before jumping in and jabbering cluelessly.

Sorry! Nothing you have posted makes any sense to anyone with an elementary school education. Try again!

Especially when you haven't read the thread.

I read the thread. The fact you think you can discern whether I have or not speaks volumes about your own incompetence.

Then why ask the question?

That's for me to know, and you to respond.

You can pound sand and reread the thread while you're at it.