My problem with the NFL re: National Anthem

[usmbguest5318]

Per the NFL rulebook:

1. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country.

2017 Rulebook

The link above is for the PDF download of the rulebook. Doing a search for the word "country," one finds that word does not appear in the whole of the document. Searching for the word "judged," one finds it four times and none of them is in the sentence you've indicated. Accordingly, I deem that the so-called rule you (your mother?) claims is in the rulebook is wholly fabricated.

So now I have found out who is the real source for the statement about what's in the NFL rulebook: a Facebook comment by Kathleen McSweeney Lanoie. (See the comments re: the New England Patriots post here: New England Patriots on MassLive.com)

Who is Kathleen McSweeney Lanoie?

• She's a woman who's apparently done nothing to distinguish herself from the millions of other women on the planet. Googling her name returns not one thing other than indicators that she exists.

What portfolio has Kathleen McSweeney Lanoie?

• None that militates construing her as someone who knows what she's talking about as goes what the NFL's rules are.
• None as goes her ability to accurately repeat information that has come her way.

The passage Lanoie cited came not from the "NFL League Rulebook" as she claimed, but rather from a document called the "game operations manual," at least according to Time. From where Lanoie got the manual or learned of it's content is anybody's guess. I cannot find the document on the NFL's website.

The magazine also reports that "'The league’s Game Operations Department uses the manual to govern the conduct of home clubs, to ensure they protect players and provide the conditions for a fair and fan-friendly contest,' reads the NFL's website."

According to Time and an NFL spokesperson, the Game Operations Manual states:

The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.

During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.​

my Mom shared this with me so I'm assume its accurate but will see if I can find the link

Is Kathleen McSweeney Lanoie your mom? Of course, she need not be; Lanoie's FB post is stated to have gone viral.

I don't know what "gone viral" means in a quantitative sense. Qualitatively, I understand it to mean many people have seen the post and propagated it, apparently without confirming its accuracy.

There is a lot of that (quoting without confirming accuracy).
Most people are here for banter, not real, true and accurate discussion.
I will admit to being lazy as well

There is a lot of that (quoting without confirming accuracy).
Most people are here for banter, not real, true and accurate discussion.

I think that's fine, and I think here's as good a place as any for bantering. Be that as it may, it's just not that hard to exercise "up front" discursive integrity in the course of even casual conversation.

From where I sit and come from, there's just no excuse for being "loud, strong and wong." Naturally, nobody wants to be that, but the only way to not be that is to check things before uttering them in public.

So what does it take to speak with portfolio? Very little...

• Verify the information's factual and contextual veracity and applicability before sharing it publicly. The Internet makes doing that very easy and very quick.

...or...

• If one doesn't feel like checking carefully -- something that is at times understandable -- simply state that one has not unverified the information. That's the barest minimum of discursive integrity. It tells audiences that they are well advised to confirm what one has said before relying on or repeating it.
  • I haven't check this, but...
  • I don't know how true this is, but...
  • Include words like "maybe," "perhaps," "possibly," "ideally," "allegedly," "supposedly," etc...to indicate the conditionality of the matter discussed.
  • Mood -- Conjugate in the subjunctive mood or conditional mood, rather than in the indicative, the relevant verbs in one's statement

And therein is the problem: the power and speed of message-flow across social media is such that we really cannot afford to have polity comprised of millions who don't exercise discursive integrity. Before the Internet and before the advent of social media, one could pretty well get away with saying just about anything because how many people might actually hear it? Unless one was a prominent figure, not many. That is no longer the case. Because it is no longer the case, we each have a civic duty to refrain from saying whatever comes to mind when we do not have portfolio for saying it.

 

[beagle9]

Football games are for football, entertainment, relaxation. Leave your fucking politics at the door please. That is NOT why people are buying tickets, fuckwads.

Maybe not. But maybe we need to have someone get into our face about these problems to address them.

. Highjacking venues like the NFL or other is robbing the sports fans of their right to get what they paid their money to see, and it was not to see an activist kneeling in disrespect to our flag in this country that covers everyone. The NFL is a bunch of no good sorry human beings for allowing the NFL to become a dam protest platform for those who targeted it for that reason.. Sure the cape crusader can't play, because he is an activist posing as a player. One things for sure, and that is that the left sure knows how to set Trump up. They are going to play this racist crap into the ground. It's all they got, and they ain't got nothing with that card being thrown willy nilly over anything now. People are on to the bullcrap. Michael Brown was the poster child for the movement, and look at who that cat was now. Then Innocent cops were slaughtered over that thug with BLM yelling "what do we want "dead cop's", when do we want them "now". Pathetic.

The NFL is a bunch of no good sorry human beings for allowing the NFL to become a dam protest platform for those who targeted it for that reason

If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion, or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein. If there are any circumstances which permit an exception, they do not now occur to us.
-- SCOTUS, West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette (No. 591)​

Get yourself appointed to the SCOTUS so you can possibly overturn Barnette, and so your opinion on the matter will matter.

Highjacking venues like the NFL or other is robbing the sports fans of their right to get what they paid their money to see

1. No hijacking occurred. What NFL game did not transpire as scheduled because of Kaepernick's kneeling protest?
2. What do NFL teams promise to provide in exchange for fan's ticket money? Without being overly legalistic, they promise to provide a seat or standing space from which the fan can observe the players on two teams compete in a football game. (Click the link if you want to see what exactly they promise and the language of the ticket terms.)
   
   Regardless of what else one may see, one does indeed get to see what the team offers to provide, and, quite frankly, that is all a ticket buyer has claim to or right to demand. You don't have to like that, but then you also don't have to buy a ticket.

The NFL is a bunch of no good sorry human beings for allowing the NFL to become a dam protest platform

Well, the precedent of sports figures protesting before, during and after their games is over 100 years old and is unique to neither the NFL nor the USA.

• 1906 -- Peter O’Connor -- At the 1906 Olympics (also known as the Intercalated Games), Irish long jumper Peter O’Connor protested after his second-place finish was honored by the raising of the British flag. Wishing to only represent Ireland, and not the whole of Britain, O’Connor scaled the flagpole and waved the Irish flag himself while fellow countryman Con Leahy guarded him at the foot of the pole.
  
  
• 1960 -- Taiwanese Olympic Team -- The IOC didn't allow Taiwan's team to compete under the name Republic of China, instead forcing the team to be recognized as Taiwan or Formosa. The whole team entered the games behind the sign "Under Protest."
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 1968 -- John Carlos and Tommie Smith -- At the Mexico City Olympics, when runners John Carlos and Tommie Smith famously raised their fists in the Black Power salute after winning bronze and gold medals, respectively, while the national anthem played.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 2004 to 2006 -- Carlos Delgado -- Beginning in the 2004 season Toronto first baseman Carlos Delgado decided to no longer stand for "God Bless America" during the 7th inning stretch of Major League Baseball games. In the 7th inning Delgado would stand silently in protest in the dugout. Delgado began to stand again in 2006 when he joined the NY Mets.
• 2010 -- Phoenix Suns team -- In their May 5, 2010 playoff game against the San Antonio Spurs, the Phoenix Suns "Los Suns" jerseys to protest Arizona's then new immigration law.
• 2014 -- LeBron James, Kyrie Irving, Jarret Jack and Kevin Garnett -- Each wore “I Can’t Breathe” shirts in reference to the last words of Eric Garner, an unarmed Black man who died after a police officer placed him in a chokehold. They were part of a string of athletes sporting similar shirts during warm-ups in recognition of the protests that stemmed from the lack of indictment of the officer who killed Garner.
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 2014 -- Five St. Louis Rams -- Five St. Louis Rams players took to the field during a game against the Oakland Raiders with the “Hands Up, Don’t Shoot” pose made iconic by the protests in Ferguson.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 2014 -- Ariyana Smith -- The Knox College athlete, during the singing of the national anthem, walked onto the court with her hands raised and fell to the floor for four and a half minutes to protest the police killing of Michael Brown.
  
  
  
  
• An entire career in baseball -- Throughout his long and respected career, Shawn Green refused to play in games which fell on Yom Kippur. Green, an all-star right fielder for the Blue Jays, Dodgers and Mets sat out regardless of his team's need for his bat or their position in a September pennant race.
  
• Other protest/advocacy actions by athletes:
  • Suns to Wear 'Los Suns' Jerseys to Protest Law
    
  • A Brief History Of Racial Protest In Sports
    
  • Looking back at the 10 biggest social justice protests by athletes over the last 20 years

Is there a designated right or wrong time and place to protest? Well, mostly no. [1] Readers here need not agree with me on that, but that one disagrees doesn't alter the fact that there is no designated time or place for anyone to express themselves.

. So there is a history of highjacking venues to spread lies and propaganda to millions eh ? All the more reason to be viligent, and active in stopping this from happening. The public square is where public protest should take place, and not blackmailing these institutions or robbing the unsuspecting customers of a product in which they want to be free from controversy's except for those that which pertains to the product or service.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Football games are for football, entertainment, relaxation. Leave your fucking politics at the door please. That is NOT why people are buying tickets, fuckwads.

Maybe not. But maybe we need to have someone get into our face about these problems to address them.

. Highjacking venues like the NFL or other is robbing the sports fans of their right to get what they paid their money to see, and it was not to see an activist kneeling in disrespect to our flag in this country that covers everyone. The NFL is a bunch of no good sorry human beings for allowing the NFL to become a dam protest platform for those who targeted it for that reason.. Sure the cape crusader can't play, because he is an activist posing as a player. One things for sure, and that is that the left sure knows how to set Trump up. They are going to play this racist crap into the ground. It's all they got, and they ain't got nothing with that card being thrown willy nilly over anything now. People are on to the bullcrap. Michael Brown was the poster child for the movement, and look at who that cat was now. Then Innocent cops were slaughtered over that thug with BLM yelling "what do we want "dead cop's", when do we want them "now". Pathetic.

The NFL is a bunch of no good sorry human beings for allowing the NFL to become a dam protest platform for those who targeted it for that reason

If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion, or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein. If there are any circumstances which permit an exception, they do not now occur to us.
-- SCOTUS, West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette (No. 591)​

Get yourself appointed to the SCOTUS so you can possibly overturn Barnette, and so your opinion on the matter will matter.

Highjacking venues like the NFL or other is robbing the sports fans of their right to get what they paid their money to see

1. No hijacking occurred. What NFL game did not transpire as scheduled because of Kaepernick's kneeling protest?
2. What do NFL teams promise to provide in exchange for fan's ticket money? Without being overly legalistic, they promise to provide a seat or standing space from which the fan can observe the players on two teams compete in a football game. (Click the link if you want to see what exactly they promise and the language of the ticket terms.)
   
   Regardless of what else one may see, one does indeed get to see what the team offers to provide, and, quite frankly, that is all a ticket buyer has claim to or right to demand. You don't have to like that, but then you also don't have to buy a ticket.

The NFL is a bunch of no good sorry human beings for allowing the NFL to become a dam protest platform

Well, the precedent of sports figures protesting before, during and after their games is over 100 years old and is unique to neither the NFL nor the USA.

• 1906 -- Peter O’Connor -- At the 1906 Olympics (also known as the Intercalated Games), Irish long jumper Peter O’Connor protested after his second-place finish was honored by the raising of the British flag. Wishing to only represent Ireland, and not the whole of Britain, O’Connor scaled the flagpole and waved the Irish flag himself while fellow countryman Con Leahy guarded him at the foot of the pole.
  
  
• 1960 -- Taiwanese Olympic Team -- The IOC didn't allow Taiwan's team to compete under the name Republic of China, instead forcing the team to be recognized as Taiwan or Formosa. The whole team entered the games behind the sign "Under Protest."
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 1968 -- John Carlos and Tommie Smith -- At the Mexico City Olympics, when runners John Carlos and Tommie Smith famously raised their fists in the Black Power salute after winning bronze and gold medals, respectively, while the national anthem played.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 2004 to 2006 -- Carlos Delgado -- Beginning in the 2004 season Toronto first baseman Carlos Delgado decided to no longer stand for "God Bless America" during the 7th inning stretch of Major League Baseball games. In the 7th inning Delgado would stand silently in protest in the dugout. Delgado began to stand again in 2006 when he joined the NY Mets.
• 2010 -- Phoenix Suns team -- In their May 5, 2010 playoff game against the San Antonio Spurs, the Phoenix Suns "Los Suns" jerseys to protest Arizona's then new immigration law.
• 2014 -- LeBron James, Kyrie Irving, Jarret Jack and Kevin Garnett -- Each wore “I Can’t Breathe” shirts in reference to the last words of Eric Garner, an unarmed Black man who died after a police officer placed him in a chokehold. They were part of a string of athletes sporting similar shirts during warm-ups in recognition of the protests that stemmed from the lack of indictment of the officer who killed Garner.
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 2014 -- Five St. Louis Rams -- Five St. Louis Rams players took to the field during a game against the Oakland Raiders with the “Hands Up, Don’t Shoot” pose made iconic by the protests in Ferguson.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 2014 -- Ariyana Smith -- The Knox College athlete, during the singing of the national anthem, walked onto the court with her hands raised and fell to the floor for four and a half minutes to protest the police killing of Michael Brown.
  
  
  
  
• An entire career in baseball -- Throughout his long and respected career, Shawn Green refused to play in games which fell on Yom Kippur. Green, an all-star right fielder for the Blue Jays, Dodgers and Mets sat out regardless of his team's need for his bat or their position in a September pennant race.
  
• Other protest/advocacy actions by athletes:
  • Suns to Wear 'Los Suns' Jerseys to Protest Law
    
  • A Brief History Of Racial Protest In Sports
    
  • Looking back at the 10 biggest social justice protests by athletes over the last 20 years

Is there a designated right or wrong time and place to protest? Well, mostly no. [1] Readers here need not agree with me on that, but that one disagrees doesn't alter the fact that there is no designated time or place for anyone to express themselves.

. So there is a history of highjacking venues to spread lies and propaganda to millions eh ? All the more reason to be viligent, and active in stopping this from happening. The public square is where public protest should take place, and not blackmailing these institutions or robbing the unsuspecting customers of a product in which they want to be free from controversy's except for those that which pertains to the product or service.

You know damn well that you have not corroborated your "hijacking" claim and you know too that I directly challenged it. Either credibly support your qualitative claim or withdraw it or just withdraw. I don't care which you do, but have the integrity to do one of the three.

No hijacking occurred. What NFL game did not transpire as scheduled because of Kaepernick's kneeling protest?

What do NFL teams promise to provide in exchange for fan's ticket money? Without being overly legalistic, they promise to provide a seat or standing space from which the fan can observe the players on two teams compete in a football game. (Click the link if you want to see what exactly they promise and the language of the ticket terms.)

Regardless of what else one may see, one does indeed get to see what the team offers to provide, and, quite frankly, that is all a ticket buyer has claim to or right to demand. You don't have to like that, but then you also don't have to buy a ticket.

Are you going to persist in being duplicitous and fallacious, or are you going to engage in a legitimate discussion wherein you refrain from making unfounded assertions? You don't have to do the latter, but if you don't want to just say so and I'll stop conversing with you.

 

[JoeB131]

Highjacking venues like the NFL or other is robbing the sports fans of their right to get what they paid their money to see, and it was not to see an activist kneeling in disrespect to our flag in this country that covers everyone.

Funny, if you are being shot in the back by police with no regards to your civil rights, how is that flag covering you again?

One things for sure, and that is that the left sure knows how to set Trump up.

Well, no, Trump sets himself up.

 

[JoeB131]

So there is a history of highjacking venues to spread lies and propaganda to millions eh ? All the more reason to be viligent, and active in stopping this from happening. The public square is where public protest should take place, and not blackmailing these institutions or robbing the unsuspecting customers of a product in which they want to be free from controversy's except for those that which pertains to the product or service.

Well, that's the point. When that stuff is happening somewhere else, you don't have to think about it or deal with it. But when it's in your face....

the thing was, it was just a few guys, and a couple more weeks, everyone would have gotten bored with it. Then Trump opened his big mouth and Twitter Account, and suddenly, the whole league felt the need to push back.

 

[beagle9]

Football games are for football, entertainment, relaxation. Leave your fucking politics at the door please. That is NOT why people are buying tickets, fuckwads.

Maybe not. But maybe we need to have someone get into our face about these problems to address them.

. Highjacking venues like the NFL or other is robbing the sports fans of their right to get what they paid their money to see, and it was not to see an activist kneeling in disrespect to our flag in this country that covers everyone. The NFL is a bunch of no good sorry human beings for allowing the NFL to become a dam protest platform for those who targeted it for that reason.. Sure the cape crusader can't play, because he is an activist posing as a player. One things for sure, and that is that the left sure knows how to set Trump up. They are going to play this racist crap into the ground. It's all they got, and they ain't got nothing with that card being thrown willy nilly over anything now. People are on to the bullcrap. Michael Brown was the poster child for the movement, and look at who that cat was now. Then Innocent cops were slaughtered over that thug with BLM yelling "what do we want "dead cop's", when do we want them "now". Pathetic.

The NFL is a bunch of no good sorry human beings for allowing the NFL to become a dam protest platform for those who targeted it for that reason

If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion, or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein. If there are any circumstances which permit an exception, they do not now occur to us.
-- SCOTUS, West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette (No. 591)​

Get yourself appointed to the SCOTUS so you can possibly overturn Barnette, and so your opinion on the matter will matter.

Highjacking venues like the NFL or other is robbing the sports fans of their right to get what they paid their money to see

1. No hijacking occurred. What NFL game did not transpire as scheduled because of Kaepernick's kneeling protest?
2. What do NFL teams promise to provide in exchange for fan's ticket money? Without being overly legalistic, they promise to provide a seat or standing space from which the fan can observe the players on two teams compete in a football game. (Click the link if you want to see what exactly they promise and the language of the ticket terms.)
   
   Regardless of what else one may see, one does indeed get to see what the team offers to provide, and, quite frankly, that is all a ticket buyer has claim to or right to demand. You don't have to like that, but then you also don't have to buy a ticket.

The NFL is a bunch of no good sorry human beings for allowing the NFL to become a dam protest platform

Well, the precedent of sports figures protesting before, during and after their games is over 100 years old and is unique to neither the NFL nor the USA.

• 1906 -- Peter O’Connor -- At the 1906 Olympics (also known as the Intercalated Games), Irish long jumper Peter O’Connor protested after his second-place finish was honored by the raising of the British flag. Wishing to only represent Ireland, and not the whole of Britain, O’Connor scaled the flagpole and waved the Irish flag himself while fellow countryman Con Leahy guarded him at the foot of the pole.
  
  
• 1960 -- Taiwanese Olympic Team -- The IOC didn't allow Taiwan's team to compete under the name Republic of China, instead forcing the team to be recognized as Taiwan or Formosa. The whole team entered the games behind the sign "Under Protest."
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 1968 -- John Carlos and Tommie Smith -- At the Mexico City Olympics, when runners John Carlos and Tommie Smith famously raised their fists in the Black Power salute after winning bronze and gold medals, respectively, while the national anthem played.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 2004 to 2006 -- Carlos Delgado -- Beginning in the 2004 season Toronto first baseman Carlos Delgado decided to no longer stand for "God Bless America" during the 7th inning stretch of Major League Baseball games. In the 7th inning Delgado would stand silently in protest in the dugout. Delgado began to stand again in 2006 when he joined the NY Mets.
• 2010 -- Phoenix Suns team -- In their May 5, 2010 playoff game against the San Antonio Spurs, the Phoenix Suns "Los Suns" jerseys to protest Arizona's then new immigration law.
• 2014 -- LeBron James, Kyrie Irving, Jarret Jack and Kevin Garnett -- Each wore “I Can’t Breathe” shirts in reference to the last words of Eric Garner, an unarmed Black man who died after a police officer placed him in a chokehold. They were part of a string of athletes sporting similar shirts during warm-ups in recognition of the protests that stemmed from the lack of indictment of the officer who killed Garner.
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 2014 -- Five St. Louis Rams -- Five St. Louis Rams players took to the field during a game against the Oakland Raiders with the “Hands Up, Don’t Shoot” pose made iconic by the protests in Ferguson.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 2014 -- Ariyana Smith -- The Knox College athlete, during the singing of the national anthem, walked onto the court with her hands raised and fell to the floor for four and a half minutes to protest the police killing of Michael Brown.
  
  
  
  
• An entire career in baseball -- Throughout his long and respected career, Shawn Green refused to play in games which fell on Yom Kippur. Green, an all-star right fielder for the Blue Jays, Dodgers and Mets sat out regardless of his team's need for his bat or their position in a September pennant race.
  
• Other protest/advocacy actions by athletes:
  • Suns to Wear 'Los Suns' Jerseys to Protest Law
    
  • A Brief History Of Racial Protest In Sports
    
  • Looking back at the 10 biggest social justice protests by athletes over the last 20 years

Is there a designated right or wrong time and place to protest? Well, mostly no. [1] Readers here need not agree with me on that, but that one disagrees doesn't alter the fact that there is no designated time or place for anyone to express themselves.

. So there is a history of highjacking venues to spread lies and propaganda to millions eh ? All the more reason to be viligent, and active in stopping this from happening. The public square is where public protest should take place, and not blackmailing these institutions or robbing the unsuspecting customers of a product in which they want to be free from controversy's except for those that which pertains to the product or service.

You know damn well that you have not corroborated your "hijacking" claim and you know too that I directly challenged it. Either credibly support your qualitative claim or withdraw it or just withdraw. I don't care which you do, but have the integrity to do one of the three.

No hijacking occurred. What NFL game did not transpire as scheduled because of Kaepernick's kneeling protest?

What do NFL teams promise to provide in exchange for fan's ticket money? Without being overly legalistic, they promise to provide a seat or standing space from which the fan can observe the players on two teams compete in a football game. (Click the link if you want to see what exactly they promise and the language of the ticket terms.)

Regardless of what else one may see, one does indeed get to see what the team offers to provide, and, quite frankly, that is all a ticket buyer has claim to or right to demand. You don't have to like that, but then you also don't have to buy a ticket.

Are you going to persist in being duplicitous and fallacious, or are you going to engage in a legitimate discussion wherein you refrain from making unfounded assertions? You don't have to do the latter, but if you don't want to just say so and I'll stop conversing with you.

. Just let it all work it's way through, and let it answer itself, because that is exactly what it will do in the end. It matters not what you think/say or what I think or say, so this is just an excersize in futility going on here. I stand by my highjacking claim, because that is exactly what it is when you take something, and then you use it for something it wasn't intended for. What is going on in the league regarding this issue has absolutely nothing to do with anything in the league, but rather it is about an issue that resides outside of the league. Now if the players had a dispute going on between them and league management, and they locked arms in protest before a game or other such means of protesting then ok, but we are seeing outside issues being brought in by activist who then highjack the venue to protest the unaffiliated or outside issue. I mean who wouldn't want to comondere a venue that exposes them and their cause to millions ?

 

[beagle9]

So there is a history of highjacking venues to spread lies and propaganda to millions eh ? All the more reason to be viligent, and active in stopping this from happening. The public square is where public protest should take place, and not blackmailing these institutions or robbing the unsuspecting customers of a product in which they want to be free from controversy's except for those that which pertains to the product or service.

Well, that's the point. When that stuff is happening somewhere else, you don't have to think about it or deal with it. But when it's in your face....

the thing was, it was just a few guys, and a couple more weeks, everyone would have gotten bored with it. Then Trump opened his big mouth and Twitter Account, and suddenly, the whole league felt the need to push back.

. No, the protest was on going, and getting worse and worse. Enough was enough, because it was becoming non-productive instead of productive. It was getting ridiculous it what it was getting.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Maybe not. But maybe we need to have someone get into our face about these problems to address them.

. Highjacking venues like the NFL or other is robbing the sports fans of their right to get what they paid their money to see, and it was not to see an activist kneeling in disrespect to our flag in this country that covers everyone. The NFL is a bunch of no good sorry human beings for allowing the NFL to become a dam protest platform for those who targeted it for that reason.. Sure the cape crusader can't play, because he is an activist posing as a player. One things for sure, and that is that the left sure knows how to set Trump up. They are going to play this racist crap into the ground. It's all they got, and they ain't got nothing with that card being thrown willy nilly over anything now. People are on to the bullcrap. Michael Brown was the poster child for the movement, and look at who that cat was now. Then Innocent cops were slaughtered over that thug with BLM yelling "what do we want "dead cop's", when do we want them "now". Pathetic.

The NFL is a bunch of no good sorry human beings for allowing the NFL to become a dam protest platform for those who targeted it for that reason

If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion, or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein. If there are any circumstances which permit an exception, they do not now occur to us.
-- SCOTUS, West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette (No. 591)​

Get yourself appointed to the SCOTUS so you can possibly overturn Barnette, and so your opinion on the matter will matter.

Highjacking venues like the NFL or other is robbing the sports fans of their right to get what they paid their money to see

1. No hijacking occurred. What NFL game did not transpire as scheduled because of Kaepernick's kneeling protest?
2. What do NFL teams promise to provide in exchange for fan's ticket money? Without being overly legalistic, they promise to provide a seat or standing space from which the fan can observe the players on two teams compete in a football game. (Click the link if you want to see what exactly they promise and the language of the ticket terms.)
   
   Regardless of what else one may see, one does indeed get to see what the team offers to provide, and, quite frankly, that is all a ticket buyer has claim to or right to demand. You don't have to like that, but then you also don't have to buy a ticket.

The NFL is a bunch of no good sorry human beings for allowing the NFL to become a dam protest platform

Well, the precedent of sports figures protesting before, during and after their games is over 100 years old and is unique to neither the NFL nor the USA.

• 1906 -- Peter O’Connor -- At the 1906 Olympics (also known as the Intercalated Games), Irish long jumper Peter O’Connor protested after his second-place finish was honored by the raising of the British flag. Wishing to only represent Ireland, and not the whole of Britain, O’Connor scaled the flagpole and waved the Irish flag himself while fellow countryman Con Leahy guarded him at the foot of the pole.
  
  
• 1960 -- Taiwanese Olympic Team -- The IOC didn't allow Taiwan's team to compete under the name Republic of China, instead forcing the team to be recognized as Taiwan or Formosa. The whole team entered the games behind the sign "Under Protest."
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 1968 -- John Carlos and Tommie Smith -- At the Mexico City Olympics, when runners John Carlos and Tommie Smith famously raised their fists in the Black Power salute after winning bronze and gold medals, respectively, while the national anthem played.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 2004 to 2006 -- Carlos Delgado -- Beginning in the 2004 season Toronto first baseman Carlos Delgado decided to no longer stand for "God Bless America" during the 7th inning stretch of Major League Baseball games. In the 7th inning Delgado would stand silently in protest in the dugout. Delgado began to stand again in 2006 when he joined the NY Mets.
• 2010 -- Phoenix Suns team -- In their May 5, 2010 playoff game against the San Antonio Spurs, the Phoenix Suns "Los Suns" jerseys to protest Arizona's then new immigration law.
• 2014 -- LeBron James, Kyrie Irving, Jarret Jack and Kevin Garnett -- Each wore “I Can’t Breathe” shirts in reference to the last words of Eric Garner, an unarmed Black man who died after a police officer placed him in a chokehold. They were part of a string of athletes sporting similar shirts during warm-ups in recognition of the protests that stemmed from the lack of indictment of the officer who killed Garner.
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 2014 -- Five St. Louis Rams -- Five St. Louis Rams players took to the field during a game against the Oakland Raiders with the “Hands Up, Don’t Shoot” pose made iconic by the protests in Ferguson.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 2014 -- Ariyana Smith -- The Knox College athlete, during the singing of the national anthem, walked onto the court with her hands raised and fell to the floor for four and a half minutes to protest the police killing of Michael Brown.
  
  
  
  
• An entire career in baseball -- Throughout his long and respected career, Shawn Green refused to play in games which fell on Yom Kippur. Green, an all-star right fielder for the Blue Jays, Dodgers and Mets sat out regardless of his team's need for his bat or their position in a September pennant race.
  
• Other protest/advocacy actions by athletes:
  • Suns to Wear 'Los Suns' Jerseys to Protest Law
    
  • A Brief History Of Racial Protest In Sports
    
  • Looking back at the 10 biggest social justice protests by athletes over the last 20 years

Is there a designated right or wrong time and place to protest? Well, mostly no. [1] Readers here need not agree with me on that, but that one disagrees doesn't alter the fact that there is no designated time or place for anyone to express themselves.

. So there is a history of highjacking venues to spread lies and propaganda to millions eh ? All the more reason to be viligent, and active in stopping this from happening. The public square is where public protest should take place, and not blackmailing these institutions or robbing the unsuspecting customers of a product in which they want to be free from controversy's except for those that which pertains to the product or service.

You know damn well that you have not corroborated your "hijacking" claim and you know too that I directly challenged it. Either credibly support your qualitative claim or withdraw it or just withdraw. I don't care which you do, but have the integrity to do one of the three.

No hijacking occurred. What NFL game did not transpire as scheduled because of Kaepernick's kneeling protest?

What do NFL teams promise to provide in exchange for fan's ticket money? Without being overly legalistic, they promise to provide a seat or standing space from which the fan can observe the players on two teams compete in a football game. (Click the link if you want to see what exactly they promise and the language of the ticket terms.)

Regardless of what else one may see, one does indeed get to see what the team offers to provide, and, quite frankly, that is all a ticket buyer has claim to or right to demand. You don't have to like that, but then you also don't have to buy a ticket.

Are you going to persist in being duplicitous and fallacious, or are you going to engage in a legitimate discussion wherein you refrain from making unfounded assertions? You don't have to do the latter, but if you don't want to just say so and I'll stop conversing with you.

. Just let it all work it's way through, and let it answer itself, because that is exactly what it will do in the end. It matters not what you think/say or what I think or say, so this is just an excersize in futility going on here. I stand by my highjacking claim, because that is exactly what it is when you take something, and then you use it for something it wasn't intended for. What is going on in the league regarding this issue has absolutely nothing to do with anything in the league, but rather it is about an issue that resides outside of the league. Now if the players had a dispute going on between them and league management, and they locked arms in protest before a game or other such means of protesting then ok, but we are seeing outside issues being brought in by activist who then highjack the venue to protest the unaffiliated or outside issue. I mean who wouldn't want to comondere a venue that exposes them and their cause to millions ?

...highjacking...is exactly what it is when you take something, and then you use for something it wasn't intended for....we are seeing outside issues being brought in by activist who then highjack the venue to protest

Kaepernick’s protest first occurred 13 months ago, but was not immediately noticed. At that point, he simply sat on the benches during the US national anthem during a preseason game, just next to the giant Gatorade jugs next to him. But, he later transitioned to taking a knee in protest - saying he was doing so to show more respect for military veterans - which turned out to be a much more iconic pose. (Source)

CK's kneel/sitting does not look like literal or figurative hijacking. (The man isn't even playing pro football this season.) CK chose to kneel during the Anthem. That's an immensely understated protest/advocacy action. Indeed, it's an action that many individuals present in the stadium might easily have not noticed. I mean, really. One dude on his knee amidst a whole bunch of big guys. To wit...

Here're some shots of what one can see with a camera or vision enhancement device.

It's clear that CK isn't calling attention to himself...he's reduced his visibility, not increased it.

What do you think the people in the stands would have observed?

If one's seats were this good (below) maybe one might have been able to pick CK amidst the rest of his team if they have a viewing aid.

What is going on in the league has absolutely nothing to do with anything in the league, but rather it is about an issue that resides outside of the league.

That is not what's "going on in the league" (NFL). The NFL isn't doing anything but playing and discussing football. Look at the NFL's homepage. There's no mention of Colin Kaepernick or "the kneel." We heard that the entirety of the Patriots' roster knelt this past weekend (Monday night?). Is there any mention of it on the Patriots' website? Nope. Everything on the NFL and Patriots' websites is about the game and nothing else.

• NFL.com - Official Site of the National Football League | NFL.com
  
• Official Website of the New England Patriots

One look at the content on the sites of the NFL and its teams will show anyone that the NFL and the team owners/management are not presenting "the kneel" as any sort of "goings on" at the league or team level.

 

[beagle9]

. Highjacking venues like the NFL or other is robbing the sports fans of their right to get what they paid their money to see, and it was not to see an activist kneeling in disrespect to our flag in this country that covers everyone. The NFL is a bunch of no good sorry human beings for allowing the NFL to become a dam protest platform for those who targeted it for that reason.. Sure the cape crusader can't play, because he is an activist posing as a player. One things for sure, and that is that the left sure knows how to set Trump up. They are going to play this racist crap into the ground. It's all they got, and they ain't got nothing with that card being thrown willy nilly over anything now. People are on to the bullcrap. Michael Brown was the poster child for the movement, and look at who that cat was now. Then Innocent cops were slaughtered over that thug with BLM yelling "what do we want "dead cop's", when do we want them "now". Pathetic.

The NFL is a bunch of no good sorry human beings for allowing the NFL to become a dam protest platform for those who targeted it for that reason

If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion, or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein. If there are any circumstances which permit an exception, they do not now occur to us.
-- SCOTUS, West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette (No. 591)​

Get yourself appointed to the SCOTUS so you can possibly overturn Barnette, and so your opinion on the matter will matter.

Highjacking venues like the NFL or other is robbing the sports fans of their right to get what they paid their money to see

1. No hijacking occurred. What NFL game did not transpire as scheduled because of Kaepernick's kneeling protest?
2. What do NFL teams promise to provide in exchange for fan's ticket money? Without being overly legalistic, they promise to provide a seat or standing space from which the fan can observe the players on two teams compete in a football game. (Click the link if you want to see what exactly they promise and the language of the ticket terms.)
   
   Regardless of what else one may see, one does indeed get to see what the team offers to provide, and, quite frankly, that is all a ticket buyer has claim to or right to demand. You don't have to like that, but then you also don't have to buy a ticket.

The NFL is a bunch of no good sorry human beings for allowing the NFL to become a dam protest platform

Well, the precedent of sports figures protesting before, during and after their games is over 100 years old and is unique to neither the NFL nor the USA.

• 1906 -- Peter O’Connor -- At the 1906 Olympics (also known as the Intercalated Games), Irish long jumper Peter O’Connor protested after his second-place finish was honored by the raising of the British flag. Wishing to only represent Ireland, and not the whole of Britain, O’Connor scaled the flagpole and waved the Irish flag himself while fellow countryman Con Leahy guarded him at the foot of the pole.
  
  
• 1960 -- Taiwanese Olympic Team -- The IOC didn't allow Taiwan's team to compete under the name Republic of China, instead forcing the team to be recognized as Taiwan or Formosa. The whole team entered the games behind the sign "Under Protest."
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 1968 -- John Carlos and Tommie Smith -- At the Mexico City Olympics, when runners John Carlos and Tommie Smith famously raised their fists in the Black Power salute after winning bronze and gold medals, respectively, while the national anthem played.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 2004 to 2006 -- Carlos Delgado -- Beginning in the 2004 season Toronto first baseman Carlos Delgado decided to no longer stand for "God Bless America" during the 7th inning stretch of Major League Baseball games. In the 7th inning Delgado would stand silently in protest in the dugout. Delgado began to stand again in 2006 when he joined the NY Mets.
• 2010 -- Phoenix Suns team -- In their May 5, 2010 playoff game against the San Antonio Spurs, the Phoenix Suns "Los Suns" jerseys to protest Arizona's then new immigration law.
• 2014 -- LeBron James, Kyrie Irving, Jarret Jack and Kevin Garnett -- Each wore “I Can’t Breathe” shirts in reference to the last words of Eric Garner, an unarmed Black man who died after a police officer placed him in a chokehold. They were part of a string of athletes sporting similar shirts during warm-ups in recognition of the protests that stemmed from the lack of indictment of the officer who killed Garner.
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 2014 -- Five St. Louis Rams -- Five St. Louis Rams players took to the field during a game against the Oakland Raiders with the “Hands Up, Don’t Shoot” pose made iconic by the protests in Ferguson.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 2014 -- Ariyana Smith -- The Knox College athlete, during the singing of the national anthem, walked onto the court with her hands raised and fell to the floor for four and a half minutes to protest the police killing of Michael Brown.
  
  
  
  
• An entire career in baseball -- Throughout his long and respected career, Shawn Green refused to play in games which fell on Yom Kippur. Green, an all-star right fielder for the Blue Jays, Dodgers and Mets sat out regardless of his team's need for his bat or their position in a September pennant race.
  
• Other protest/advocacy actions by athletes:
  • Suns to Wear 'Los Suns' Jerseys to Protest Law
    
  • A Brief History Of Racial Protest In Sports
    
  • Looking back at the 10 biggest social justice protests by athletes over the last 20 years

Is there a designated right or wrong time and place to protest? Well, mostly no. [1] Readers here need not agree with me on that, but that one disagrees doesn't alter the fact that there is no designated time or place for anyone to express themselves.

. So there is a history of highjacking venues to spread lies and propaganda to millions eh ? All the more reason to be viligent, and active in stopping this from happening. The public square is where public protest should take place, and not blackmailing these institutions or robbing the unsuspecting customers of a product in which they want to be free from controversy's except for those that which pertains to the product or service.

You know damn well that you have not corroborated your "hijacking" claim and you know too that I directly challenged it. Either credibly support your qualitative claim or withdraw it or just withdraw. I don't care which you do, but have the integrity to do one of the three.

No hijacking occurred. What NFL game did not transpire as scheduled because of Kaepernick's kneeling protest?

What do NFL teams promise to provide in exchange for fan's ticket money? Without being overly legalistic, they promise to provide a seat or standing space from which the fan can observe the players on two teams compete in a football game. (Click the link if you want to see what exactly they promise and the language of the ticket terms.)

Regardless of what else one may see, one does indeed get to see what the team offers to provide, and, quite frankly, that is all a ticket buyer has claim to or right to demand. You don't have to like that, but then you also don't have to buy a ticket.

Are you going to persist in being duplicitous and fallacious, or are you going to engage in a legitimate discussion wherein you refrain from making unfounded assertions? You don't have to do the latter, but if you don't want to just say so and I'll stop conversing with you.

. Just let it all work it's way through, and let it answer itself, because that is exactly what it will do in the end. It matters not what you think/say or what I think or say, so this is just an excersize in futility going on here. I stand by my highjacking claim, because that is exactly what it is when you take something, and then you use it for something it wasn't intended for. What is going on in the league regarding this issue has absolutely nothing to do with anything in the league, but rather it is about an issue that resides outside of the league. Now if the players had a dispute going on between them and league management, and they locked arms in protest before a game or other such means of protesting then ok, but we are seeing outside issues being brought in by activist who then highjack the venue to protest the unaffiliated or outside issue. I mean who wouldn't want to comondere a venue that exposes them and their cause to millions ?

...highjacking...is exactly what it is when you take something, and then you use for something it wasn't intended for....we are seeing outside issues being brought in by activist who then highjack the venue to protest

Kaepernick’s protest first occurred 13 months ago, but was not immediately noticed. At that point, he simply sat on the benches during the US national anthem during a preseason game, just next to the giant Gatorade jugs next to him. But, he later transitioned to taking a knee in protest - saying he was doing so to show more respect for military veterans - which turned out to be a much more iconic pose. (Source)

CK's kneel/sitting does not look like literal or figurative hijacking. (The man isn't even playing pro football this season.) CK chose to kneel during the Anthem. That's an immensely understated protest/advocacy action. Indeed, it's an action that many individuals present in the stadium might easily have not noticed. I mean, really. One dude on his knee amidst a whole bunch of big guys. To wit...

Here're some shots of what one can see with a camera or vision enhancement device.

It's clear that CK isn't calling attention to himself...he's reduced his visibility, not increased it.

What do you think the people in the stands would have observed?

If one's seats were this good (below) maybe one might have been able to pick CK amidst the rest of his team if they have a viewing aid.

What is going on in the league has absolutely nothing to do with anything in the league, but rather it is about an issue that resides outside of the league.

That is not what's "going on in the league" (NFL). The NFL isn't doing anything but playing and discussing football. Look at the NFL's homepage. There's no mention of Colin Kaepernick or "the kneel." We heard that the entirety of the Patriots' roster knelt this past weekend (Monday night?). Is there any mention of it on the Patriots' website? Nope. Everything on the NFL and Patriots' websites is about the game and nothing else.

• NFL.com - Official Site of the National Football League | NFL.com
  
• Official Website of the New England Patriots

One look at the content on the sites of the NFL and its teams will show anyone that the NFL and the team owners/management are not presenting "the kneel" as any sort of "goings on" at the league or team level.

Do you realize the spin you are engaged in here ? Of course the physical appearance of CK wasn't apparent to the fans, but it was sending a message to his teammates that eventually blew up amongst them, and then caused the media to get involved, and away it went. His pig socks was also a huge distraction that went along with his bullcrap. He was divisive, and disrupted his unit with his activism. He shouldn't have chosen the NFL for his protest platform, and should have chosen the proper public option in which the nation provides for such things. Private institutions are not the proper venues for protest that aren't directly related to the management of the NFL or the game.

 

[beagle9]

Highjacking venues like the NFL or other is robbing the sports fans of their right to get what they paid their money to see, and it was not to see an activist kneeling in disrespect to our flag in this country that covers everyone.

Funny, if you are being shot in the back by police with no regards to your civil rights, how is that flag covering you again?

One things for sure, and that is that the left sure knows how to set Trump up.

Well, no, Trump sets himself up.

Who was shot in the back by police in violation of ones civil rights ? Not only is Trump being set up, but the idiot celebrities are the ones being set up the most. Hey if you create a false narrative, and convince a celebrity to get on board, then not only do you have the weight of their celeb status captured, but you have captured their fans in the net as well.

 

[usmbguest5318]

If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion, or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein. If there are any circumstances which permit an exception, they do not now occur to us.
-- SCOTUS, West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette (No. 591)​

Get yourself appointed to the SCOTUS so you can possibly overturn Barnette, and so your opinion on the matter will matter.

1. No hijacking occurred. What NFL game did not transpire as scheduled because of Kaepernick's kneeling protest?
2. What do NFL teams promise to provide in exchange for fan's ticket money? Without being overly legalistic, they promise to provide a seat or standing space from which the fan can observe the players on two teams compete in a football game. (Click the link if you want to see what exactly they promise and the language of the ticket terms.)
   
   Regardless of what else one may see, one does indeed get to see what the team offers to provide, and, quite frankly, that is all a ticket buyer has claim to or right to demand. You don't have to like that, but then you also don't have to buy a ticket.

Well, the precedent of sports figures protesting before, during and after their games is over 100 years old and is unique to neither the NFL nor the USA.

• 1906 -- Peter O’Connor -- At the 1906 Olympics (also known as the Intercalated Games), Irish long jumper Peter O’Connor protested after his second-place finish was honored by the raising of the British flag. Wishing to only represent Ireland, and not the whole of Britain, O’Connor scaled the flagpole and waved the Irish flag himself while fellow countryman Con Leahy guarded him at the foot of the pole.
  
  
• 1960 -- Taiwanese Olympic Team -- The IOC didn't allow Taiwan's team to compete under the name Republic of China, instead forcing the team to be recognized as Taiwan or Formosa. The whole team entered the games behind the sign "Under Protest."
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 1968 -- John Carlos and Tommie Smith -- At the Mexico City Olympics, when runners John Carlos and Tommie Smith famously raised their fists in the Black Power salute after winning bronze and gold medals, respectively, while the national anthem played.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 2004 to 2006 -- Carlos Delgado -- Beginning in the 2004 season Toronto first baseman Carlos Delgado decided to no longer stand for "God Bless America" during the 7th inning stretch of Major League Baseball games. In the 7th inning Delgado would stand silently in protest in the dugout. Delgado began to stand again in 2006 when he joined the NY Mets.
• 2010 -- Phoenix Suns team -- In their May 5, 2010 playoff game against the San Antonio Spurs, the Phoenix Suns "Los Suns" jerseys to protest Arizona's then new immigration law.
• 2014 -- LeBron James, Kyrie Irving, Jarret Jack and Kevin Garnett -- Each wore “I Can’t Breathe” shirts in reference to the last words of Eric Garner, an unarmed Black man who died after a police officer placed him in a chokehold. They were part of a string of athletes sporting similar shirts during warm-ups in recognition of the protests that stemmed from the lack of indictment of the officer who killed Garner.
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 2014 -- Five St. Louis Rams -- Five St. Louis Rams players took to the field during a game against the Oakland Raiders with the “Hands Up, Don’t Shoot” pose made iconic by the protests in Ferguson.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 2014 -- Ariyana Smith -- The Knox College athlete, during the singing of the national anthem, walked onto the court with her hands raised and fell to the floor for four and a half minutes to protest the police killing of Michael Brown.
  
  
  
  
• An entire career in baseball -- Throughout his long and respected career, Shawn Green refused to play in games which fell on Yom Kippur. Green, an all-star right fielder for the Blue Jays, Dodgers and Mets sat out regardless of his team's need for his bat or their position in a September pennant race.
  
• Other protest/advocacy actions by athletes:
  • Suns to Wear 'Los Suns' Jerseys to Protest Law
    
  • A Brief History Of Racial Protest In Sports
    
  • Looking back at the 10 biggest social justice protests by athletes over the last 20 years

Is there a designated right or wrong time and place to protest? Well, mostly no. [1] Readers here need not agree with me on that, but that one disagrees doesn't alter the fact that there is no designated time or place for anyone to express themselves.

. So there is a history of highjacking venues to spread lies and propaganda to millions eh ? All the more reason to be viligent, and active in stopping this from happening. The public square is where public protest should take place, and not blackmailing these institutions or robbing the unsuspecting customers of a product in which they want to be free from controversy's except for those that which pertains to the product or service.

You know damn well that you have not corroborated your "hijacking" claim and you know too that I directly challenged it. Either credibly support your qualitative claim or withdraw it or just withdraw. I don't care which you do, but have the integrity to do one of the three.

No hijacking occurred. What NFL game did not transpire as scheduled because of Kaepernick's kneeling protest?

What do NFL teams promise to provide in exchange for fan's ticket money? Without being overly legalistic, they promise to provide a seat or standing space from which the fan can observe the players on two teams compete in a football game. (Click the link if you want to see what exactly they promise and the language of the ticket terms.)

Regardless of what else one may see, one does indeed get to see what the team offers to provide, and, quite frankly, that is all a ticket buyer has claim to or right to demand. You don't have to like that, but then you also don't have to buy a ticket.

Are you going to persist in being duplicitous and fallacious, or are you going to engage in a legitimate discussion wherein you refrain from making unfounded assertions? You don't have to do the latter, but if you don't want to just say so and I'll stop conversing with you.

. Just let it all work it's way through, and let it answer itself, because that is exactly what it will do in the end. It matters not what you think/say or what I think or say, so this is just an excersize in futility going on here. I stand by my highjacking claim, because that is exactly what it is when you take something, and then you use it for something it wasn't intended for. What is going on in the league regarding this issue has absolutely nothing to do with anything in the league, but rather it is about an issue that resides outside of the league. Now if the players had a dispute going on between them and league management, and they locked arms in protest before a game or other such means of protesting then ok, but we are seeing outside issues being brought in by activist who then highjack the venue to protest the unaffiliated or outside issue. I mean who wouldn't want to comondere a venue that exposes them and their cause to millions ?

...highjacking...is exactly what it is when you take something, and then you use for something it wasn't intended for....we are seeing outside issues being brought in by activist who then highjack the venue to protest

Kaepernick’s protest first occurred 13 months ago, but was not immediately noticed. At that point, he simply sat on the benches during the US national anthem during a preseason game, just next to the giant Gatorade jugs next to him. But, he later transitioned to taking a knee in protest - saying he was doing so to show more respect for military veterans - which turned out to be a much more iconic pose. (Source)

CK's kneel/sitting does not look like literal or figurative hijacking. (The man isn't even playing pro football this season.) CK chose to kneel during the Anthem. That's an immensely understated protest/advocacy action. Indeed, it's an action that many individuals present in the stadium might easily have not noticed. I mean, really. One dude on his knee amidst a whole bunch of big guys. To wit...

Here're some shots of what one can see with a camera or vision enhancement device.

It's clear that CK isn't calling attention to himself...he's reduced his visibility, not increased it.

What do you think the people in the stands would have observed?

If one's seats were this good (below) maybe one might have been able to pick CK amidst the rest of his team if they have a viewing aid.

What is going on in the league has absolutely nothing to do with anything in the league, but rather it is about an issue that resides outside of the league.

That is not what's "going on in the league" (NFL). The NFL isn't doing anything but playing and discussing football. Look at the NFL's homepage. There's no mention of Colin Kaepernick or "the kneel." We heard that the entirety of the Patriots' roster knelt this past weekend (Monday night?). Is there any mention of it on the Patriots' website? Nope. Everything on the NFL and Patriots' websites is about the game and nothing else.

• NFL.com - Official Site of the National Football League | NFL.com
  
• Official Website of the New England Patriots

One look at the content on the sites of the NFL and its teams will show anyone that the NFL and the team owners/management are not presenting "the kneel" as any sort of "goings on" at the league or team level.

Do you realize the spin you are engaged in here ? Of course the physical appearance of CK wasn't apparent to the fans, but it was sending a message to his teammates that eventually blew up amongst them, and then caused the media to get involved, and away it went. His pig socks was also a huge distraction that went along with his bullcrap. He was divisive, and disrupted his unit with his activism. He shouldn't have chosen the NFL for his protest platform, and should have chosen the proper public option in which the nation provides for such things. Private institutions are not the proper venues for protest that aren't directly related to the management of the NFL or the game.

Of course the physical appearance of CK wasn't apparent to the fans, but it was sending a message to his teammates that eventually blew up amongst them, and then caused the media to get involved, and away it went.

Oh, I see. It's all "dominos" and "apples."

He shouldn't have chosen the NFL for his protest platform, and should have chosen the proper public option in which the nation provides for such things.

So you say.....

Private institutions are not the proper venues for protest that aren't directly related to the management of the NFL or the game.

And with that absurd remark you make it clear you are "not ready for prime time." Damn near every institution that advocates for or protests against pretty much anything are private institutions. Public ones are quite often prohibited by law from doing so.

 

[beagle9]

. So there is a history of highjacking venues to spread lies and propaganda to millions eh ? All the more reason to be viligent, and active in stopping this from happening. The public square is where public protest should take place, and not blackmailing these institutions or robbing the unsuspecting customers of a product in which they want to be free from controversy's except for those that which pertains to the product or service.

You know damn well that you have not corroborated your "hijacking" claim and you know too that I directly challenged it. Either credibly support your qualitative claim or withdraw it or just withdraw. I don't care which you do, but have the integrity to do one of the three.

No hijacking occurred. What NFL game did not transpire as scheduled because of Kaepernick's kneeling protest?

What do NFL teams promise to provide in exchange for fan's ticket money? Without being overly legalistic, they promise to provide a seat or standing space from which the fan can observe the players on two teams compete in a football game. (Click the link if you want to see what exactly they promise and the language of the ticket terms.)

Regardless of what else one may see, one does indeed get to see what the team offers to provide, and, quite frankly, that is all a ticket buyer has claim to or right to demand. You don't have to like that, but then you also don't have to buy a ticket.

Are you going to persist in being duplicitous and fallacious, or are you going to engage in a legitimate discussion wherein you refrain from making unfounded assertions? You don't have to do the latter, but if you don't want to just say so and I'll stop conversing with you.

. Just let it all work it's way through, and let it answer itself, because that is exactly what it will do in the end. It matters not what you think/say or what I think or say, so this is just an excersize in futility going on here. I stand by my highjacking claim, because that is exactly what it is when you take something, and then you use it for something it wasn't intended for. What is going on in the league regarding this issue has absolutely nothing to do with anything in the league, but rather it is about an issue that resides outside of the league. Now if the players had a dispute going on between them and league management, and they locked arms in protest before a game or other such means of protesting then ok, but we are seeing outside issues being brought in by activist who then highjack the venue to protest the unaffiliated or outside issue. I mean who wouldn't want to comondere a venue that exposes them and their cause to millions ?

...highjacking...is exactly what it is when you take something, and then you use for something it wasn't intended for....we are seeing outside issues being brought in by activist who then highjack the venue to protest

Kaepernick’s protest first occurred 13 months ago, but was not immediately noticed. At that point, he simply sat on the benches during the US national anthem during a preseason game, just next to the giant Gatorade jugs next to him. But, he later transitioned to taking a knee in protest - saying he was doing so to show more respect for military veterans - which turned out to be a much more iconic pose. (Source)

CK's kneel/sitting does not look like literal or figurative hijacking. (The man isn't even playing pro football this season.) CK chose to kneel during the Anthem. That's an immensely understated protest/advocacy action. Indeed, it's an action that many individuals present in the stadium might easily have not noticed. I mean, really. One dude on his knee amidst a whole bunch of big guys. To wit...

Here're some shots of what one can see with a camera or vision enhancement device.

It's clear that CK isn't calling attention to himself...he's reduced his visibility, not increased it.

What do you think the people in the stands would have observed?

If one's seats were this good (below) maybe one might have been able to pick CK amidst the rest of his team if they have a viewing aid.

What is going on in the league has absolutely nothing to do with anything in the league, but rather it is about an issue that resides outside of the league.

That is not what's "going on in the league" (NFL). The NFL isn't doing anything but playing and discussing football. Look at the NFL's homepage. There's no mention of Colin Kaepernick or "the kneel." We heard that the entirety of the Patriots' roster knelt this past weekend (Monday night?). Is there any mention of it on the Patriots' website? Nope. Everything on the NFL and Patriots' websites is about the game and nothing else.

• NFL.com - Official Site of the National Football League | NFL.com
  
• Official Website of the New England Patriots

One look at the content on the sites of the NFL and its teams will show anyone that the NFL and the team owners/management are not presenting "the kneel" as any sort of "goings on" at the league or team level.

Do you realize the spin you are engaged in here ? Of course the physical appearance of CK wasn't apparent to the fans, but it was sending a message to his teammates that eventually blew up amongst them, and then caused the media to get involved, and away it went. His pig socks was also a huge distraction that went along with his bullcrap. He was divisive, and disrupted his unit with his activism. He shouldn't have chosen the NFL for his protest platform, and should have chosen the proper public option in which the nation provides for such things. Private institutions are not the proper venues for protest that aren't directly related to the management of the NFL or the game.

Of course the physical appearance of CK wasn't apparent to the fans, but it was sending a message to his teammates that eventually blew up amongst them, and then caused the media to get involved, and away it went.

Oh, I see. It's all "dominos" and "apples."

He shouldn't have chosen the NFL for his protest platform, and should have chosen the proper public option in which the nation provides for such things.

So you say.....

Private institutions are not the proper venues for protest that aren't directly related to the management of the NFL or the game.

And with that absurd remark you make it clear you are "not ready for prime time." Damn near every institution that advocates for or protests against pretty much anything are private institutions. Public ones are quite often prohibited by law from doing so.

Why be so dumb ??? Where does most protest take place ??? Everytime I see a protest, it is in the streets, parks, government grounds etc. Many get permit's for their protest, but during the more spontaneous one's none are acquired. You are fighting to keep the idea going that highjacking targeted "privately run organizations/businesses", in which are privy to thousands if not millions of viewer's is an exceptable practice when it is not. The left has figured these things out, and they are going to ride that horse into the ground if they have to. It is agenda driven, and if a thug like Michael Brown can be used hap- hazzardly to push the agenda, then so be it eh ?

 

[usmbguest5318]

You know damn well that you have not corroborated your "hijacking" claim and you know too that I directly challenged it. Either credibly support your qualitative claim or withdraw it or just withdraw. I don't care which you do, but have the integrity to do one of the three.

​

Are you going to persist in being duplicitous and fallacious, or are you going to engage in a legitimate discussion wherein you refrain from making unfounded assertions? You don't have to do the latter, but if you don't want to just say so and I'll stop conversing with you.

. Just let it all work it's way through, and let it answer itself, because that is exactly what it will do in the end. It matters not what you think/say or what I think or say, so this is just an excersize in futility going on here. I stand by my highjacking claim, because that is exactly what it is when you take something, and then you use it for something it wasn't intended for. What is going on in the league regarding this issue has absolutely nothing to do with anything in the league, but rather it is about an issue that resides outside of the league. Now if the players had a dispute going on between them and league management, and they locked arms in protest before a game or other such means of protesting then ok, but we are seeing outside issues being brought in by activist who then highjack the venue to protest the unaffiliated or outside issue. I mean who wouldn't want to comondere a venue that exposes them and their cause to millions ?

...highjacking...is exactly what it is when you take something, and then you use for something it wasn't intended for....we are seeing outside issues being brought in by activist who then highjack the venue to protest

Kaepernick’s protest first occurred 13 months ago, but was not immediately noticed. At that point, he simply sat on the benches during the US national anthem during a preseason game, just next to the giant Gatorade jugs next to him. But, he later transitioned to taking a knee in protest - saying he was doing so to show more respect for military veterans - which turned out to be a much more iconic pose. (Source)

CK's kneel/sitting does not look like literal or figurative hijacking. (The man isn't even playing pro football this season.) CK chose to kneel during the Anthem. That's an immensely understated protest/advocacy action. Indeed, it's an action that many individuals present in the stadium might easily have not noticed. I mean, really. One dude on his knee amidst a whole bunch of big guys. To wit...

Here're some shots of what one can see with a camera or vision enhancement device.

It's clear that CK isn't calling attention to himself...he's reduced his visibility, not increased it.

What do you think the people in the stands would have observed?

If one's seats were this good (below) maybe one might have been able to pick CK amidst the rest of his team if they have a viewing aid.

What is going on in the league has absolutely nothing to do with anything in the league, but rather it is about an issue that resides outside of the league.

That is not what's "going on in the league" (NFL). The NFL isn't doing anything but playing and discussing football. Look at the NFL's homepage. There's no mention of Colin Kaepernick or "the kneel." We heard that the entirety of the Patriots' roster knelt this past weekend (Monday night?). Is there any mention of it on the Patriots' website? Nope. Everything on the NFL and Patriots' websites is about the game and nothing else.

• NFL.com - Official Site of the National Football League | NFL.com
  
• Official Website of the New England Patriots

One look at the content on the sites of the NFL and its teams will show anyone that the NFL and the team owners/management are not presenting "the kneel" as any sort of "goings on" at the league or team level.

Do you realize the spin you are engaged in here ? Of course the physical appearance of CK wasn't apparent to the fans, but it was sending a message to his teammates that eventually blew up amongst them, and then caused the media to get involved, and away it went. His pig socks was also a huge distraction that went along with his bullcrap. He was divisive, and disrupted his unit with his activism. He shouldn't have chosen the NFL for his protest platform, and should have chosen the proper public option in which the nation provides for such things. Private institutions are not the proper venues for protest that aren't directly related to the management of the NFL or the game.

Of course the physical appearance of CK wasn't apparent to the fans, but it was sending a message to his teammates that eventually blew up amongst them, and then caused the media to get involved, and away it went.

Oh, I see. It's all "dominos" and "apples."

He shouldn't have chosen the NFL for his protest platform, and should have chosen the proper public option in which the nation provides for such things.

So you say.....

Private institutions are not the proper venues for protest that aren't directly related to the management of the NFL or the game.

And with that absurd remark you make it clear you are "not ready for prime time." Damn near every institution that advocates for or protests against pretty much anything are private institutions. Public ones are quite often prohibited by law from doing so.

Why be so dumb ??? Where does most protest take place ??? Everytime I see a protest, it is in the streets, parks, government grounds etc. Many get permit's for their protest, but during the more spontaneous one's none are acquired. You are fighting to keep the idea going that highjacking targeted "privately run organizations/businesses", in which are privy to thousands if not millions of viewer's is an exceptable practice when it is not. The left has figured these things out, and they are going to ride that horse into the ground if they have to. It is agenda driven, and if a thug like Michael Brown can be used hap- hazzardly to push the agenda, then so be it eh ?

Everytime I see a protest

What you see and what is need not at all be the same things.

Moreover, what you see and reality need not be the same things.

​

Everytime I see a protest, it is in the streets, parks, government grounds etc.

I think you don't put much effort into looking. Be that as it may, the fact that you don't see advocacy for/against things political or social doesn't mean it's not going on around you all the time.

• People use advocacy coffee mugs at work and in their homes.
• People wear pins and t-shirts and buttons to express their advocacy for/against "whatever."
• Perhaps you don't attend them, but private fundraisers happen in private facilities and are sponsored by private organizations.
• People put stickers on their work laptops to advocate for "whatever"
• Some folks have issue advocacy phone covers/cases
• Have you never been to a concert and observed the performer advocate for his/her pet cause at the time?
• People attach buttons and pins that communicate their advocacy for/against things and they wear them to work.

You seem to want to tell people when and how to express themselves. Quite simply, neither you nor I get to do that.

You are fighting to keep the idea going that highjacking targeted "privately run organizations/businesses"

What began as your argument by assertion has now devolved to argument by repetition. (Argumentum ad nauseum) I'm not going to keep responding to it because I've refuted it, and rather than show that my refutation is inaccurate, you've done nothing but repeat your original declaration(s), not one of which have you established is true beyond your mere attestation that it is true.

There is nothing being hijacked by CK and/or other athletes' "taking a knee." No work activity that the NFL pursues has been impeded because CK or anyone else "took a knee."

• The National Anthem got played and sung. People who wanted to stand for i did. People who didn't didn't.
• The games got played and one team won and one lost.
• What the NFL and the respective teams offered in accordance with the terms of purchasing a ticket -- the entertainment of was delivered.

the idea going that highjacking targeted "privately run organizations/businesses", in which are privy to thousands if not millions of viewer's is an exceptable practice when it is not.

So you say......

(I've shared this video because Don makes the point more succinctly than I would have.)​

 

[ChrisL]

Black people! Don't fight with the police and you won't get shot! If you have an issue at the time of your arrest, that is something you take up in the court of law. The police are out there doing their jobs, arresting those suspected of law breaking!

 

[ChrisL]

No need for protests. Just obey the laws and don't fight with the police. The police don't know you and don't know what you are capable of doing. They don't know whether or not you have a weapon hidden somewhere on your person or whether you are going to try to grab THEIR weapon. When they engage you physically, THAT is one of their main concerns, preventing you from reaching their weapon and shooting them or other innocent bystanders.

 

[ChrisL]

Obviously, the people protesting are uneducated and stupid tards who know nothing about life or how to deal with others. Typical liberals.

 

[ChrisL]

MY loyalty will lie with the police officers who don't make NEARLY the amount that these fucktards make, and risk their lives out there every day as a public service. Yet they get a bad rap from the socially retarded liberal factions in our society that we have to "tolerate" every day. *eye rolls*

 

[danielpalos]

Does the NFL Require Players to Stand for the National Anthem?

Here's what the game operations manual says regarding the national anthem, according to an NFL spokesperson:

The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.

During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.​

So the NFL has grounds to fine these asstards, but simply chooses not to.

Kneeling is a form of respect.

 

[danielpalos]

STFU you fucking hypocrite, I bet you've NEVER stood up at home when you hear a national anthem.

I'm usually not watching the game when it's being played, but, no, I would not you are correct. But when I am at the events I always do (and I also sing along, which I'm sure is QUITE offensive to those around me!)

So you're a hypocrite. Now you know.

Wanna be sure I got this straight....you support the right for players to protest against something, but you do not support her eright to say she doesn't like it - and she is the hypocrite?

That's pretty funny.

She's complaining about something other people don't do, when she doesn't even do it herself. And I never said anything about her right to be wrong, just like you. Go ahead, you already have some momentum.

Wait...Bonzi plays for the NFL too????????????
Wow - what team?

It is Always fun, to give the girl, the ball.

 

[JoeB131]

No, the protest was on going, and getting worse and worse. Enough was enough, because it was becoming non-productive instead of productive. It was getting ridiculous it what it was getting.

Really? How was it doing that? Frankly, most of us had forgotten this was even a thing that was going on.

Then Trump took on the players and the NFL, and they slapped back.

Who was shot in the back by police in violation of ones civil rights ?

LaQuan McDonald, for one.
Walter Scott, for another.

Not only is Trump being set up, but the idiot celebrities are the ones being set up the most. Hey if you create a false narrative, and convince a celebrity to get on board, then not only do you have the weight of their celeb status captured, but you have captured their fans in the net as well.

Except it's not a false narrative.