Myths and facts about Jerusalem and Temple Mount

[Saigon]

Jroc -

While you are correct that more than 50% of Jordanian residents are ethinically Palestinian - perhaps a half million of those would return to their homes in the West Bank should a Palestinian state ever be created.

 

[Roudy]

Quote:

Any educated person would know that the name Palestine was given to Israel by the invading Romans. That means the name Palestine did not exist prior to that era.

"The first clear use of the term Palestine to refer to the entire area between Phoenicia and Egypt was in 5th century BC Ancient Greece."

Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Source: Jacobson, David M. (February 1999). Weinstein, James M.. ed. "Palestine and Israel". Bulletin of the American Schools of Oriental Research (The American Schools of Oriental Research)

Roudy - Do you now underatand that your point is wrong?

Your own link from Wikipedia very clearly says that the Romans invaded ancient Israel Judeah and Samaria and renamed it to Syria Palestina. The fact that you have no intellectual honesty to mention that, and fail to even post a working link for readers to see that means that your are a terrorist ass kicker wo will lie and say anything on behalf of the Islamists.

 

[Saigon]

Roudy -

The link was posted on one of the previous occasions when you ran away from the comment.

This is the complete citation:

^ Jacobson, David M. (February 1999). Weinstein, James M.. ed. "Palestine and Israel". Bulletin of the American Schools of Oriental Research (The American Schools of Oriental Research) (313): 65–74. ISSN 0003097X. JSTOR 1357617. ""The earliest occurrence of this name in a Greek text is in the mid-fifth century b.c., Histories of Herodotus, where it is applied to the area of the Levant between Phoenicia and Egypt."..."The first known occurrence of the Greek word Palaistine is in the Histories of Herodotus, written near the mid-fifth century B.C. Palaistine Syria, or simply Palaistine, is applied to what may be identified as the southern part of Syria, comprising the region between Phoenicia and Egypt. Although some of Herodotus' references to Palestine are compatible with a narrow definition of the coastal strip of the Land of Israel, it is clear that Herodotus does call the "whole land by the name of the coastal strip."..."It is believed that Herodotus visited Palestine in the fifth decade of the fifth century B.C."..."In the earliest Classical literature references to Palestine generally applied to the Land of Israel in the wider sense."" and David Jacobson (May/Jun 2001). "When Palestine Meant Israel". BAR 27:03. Retrieved 2 March 2012. "As early as the Histories of Herodotus, written in the second half of the fifth century B.C.E., the term Palaistinê is used to describe not just the geographical area where the Philistines lived, but the entire area between Phoenicia and Egypt—in other words, the Land of Israel. Herodotus, who had traveled through the area, would have had firsthand knowledge of the land and its people. Yet he used Palaistinê to refer not to the Land of the Philistines, but to the Land of Israel"

Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Please acknolwedge that you understand this, so that we can avoid you simply re-posting myths.

No one has ever disputed the Roman invasion.

 

[Roudy]

Wow, what a load of hogwash. So many errors, mistakes, and lies one doesn't even know where to begin with this dipshit.

I'm still waiting to see these "errors, mistakes and lies".

Roudy - Please acknowledge that my comments were correct - not the "lies" you claimed they were.

Your examples do not apply. The Palestinians are Arabs who suddenly changed their history into a history of other peoples. It would be the equivalent of Italians calling themselves ancient Greeks. And the Arab Palestinians do not go back to ancient times in The land of Israel, the Philistines do, WHICH HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ARABS OR PALESTINIANS, nor were they Semitic.

It's just another piece hogwash and sack of lies that you repeat constantly and shameless because you think everybody is as stupid and ignorant as you are. But then again, those are the qualities of a typical terrorist supporting scumbag.

 

[Saigon]

Your examples do not apply. The Palestinians are Arabs who suddenly changed their history into a history of other peoples. It would be the equivalent of Italians calling themselves ancient Greeks. And the Arab Palestinians do not go back to ancient times in The land of Israel, the Philistines do, WHICH HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ARABS OR PALESTINIANS, nor were they Semitic.
.

Right.

So even though you have just acknolwedged that the name 'Palestine' was used in the 5th Centy BCE, and even though we have seen that modern Palestinian genetic code links Palestinians to that land back through millenia - you do not feel they have a strong case for statehood?

I can only assume that you simply have not understood the examples given.

Let's be clear - there was no such thing as Italy in 1950 and there never had been. There was no such thing as Germany in 1850 and there never had been. There were no German people, no Italian people, and never had been.

Please explain why Italy should be a state and Palestine should not.


btw. I am sure everyone on this board realises that you descend into foul-mouthed rants when you know you have lost. I suggest you spare yourself the humiliation of proving it another time.

 

[Roudy]

Roudy -

The link was posted on one of the previous occasions when you ran away from the comment.

This is the complete citation:

^ Jacobson, David M. (February 1999). Weinstein, James M.. ed. "Palestine and Israel". Bulletin of the American Schools of Oriental Research (The American Schools of Oriental Research) (313): 65–74. ISSN 0003097X. JSTOR 1357617. ""The earliest occurrence of this name in a Greek text is in the mid-fifth century b.c., Histories of Herodotus, where it is applied to the area of the Levant between Phoenicia and Egypt."..."The first known occurrence of the Greek word Palaistine is in the Histories of Herodotus, written near the mid-fifth century B.C. Palaistine Syria, or simply Palaistine, is applied to what may be identified as the southern part of Syria, comprising the region between Phoenicia and Egypt. Although some of Herodotus' references to Palestine are compatible with a narrow definition of the coastal strip of the Land of Israel, it is clear that Herodotus does call the "whole land by the name of the coastal strip."..."It is believed that Herodotus visited Palestine in the fifth decade of the fifth century B.C."..."In the earliest Classical literature references to Palestine generally applied to the Land of Israel in the wider sense."" and David Jacobson (May/Jun 2001). "When Palestine Meant Israel". BAR 27:03. Retrieved 2 March 2012. "As early as the Histories of Herodotus, written in the second half of the fifth century B.C.E., the term Palaistinê is used to describe not just the geographical area where the Philistines lived, but the entire area between Phoenicia and Egypt—in other words, the Land of Israel. Herodotus, who had traveled through the area, would have had firsthand knowledge of the land and its people. Yet he used Palaistinê to refer not to the Land of the Philistines, but to the Land of Israel"

Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Please acknolwedge that you understand this, so that we can avoid you simply re-posting myths.

No one has ever disputed the Roman invasion.

Wow, you really are dumb as a doorknob aren't you? "philistine" is not the same as Palestine, and Philistines have zero zilch nada to do with Palestinians. Other than the Romans used the name "Philistine" to humiliate the Israelites, by changing its name to Palestine after they conquered it.

As early as the Histories of Herodotus, written in the second half of the fifth century B.C.E., the term Palaistinê is used to describe not just the geographical area where the Philistines lived, but the entire area between Phoenicia and Egypt—in other words, the Land of Israel. Herodotus, who had traveled through the area, would have had firsthand knowledge of the land and its people. Yet he used Palaistinê to refer not to the Land of the Philistines, but to the Land of Israel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_ancient_Israel_and_Judah

In 63*BCE the Roman general Pompey conquered Jerusalem and made the Jewish kingdom a client of Rome. In 40–39, Herod the Great was appointed King of the Jews by the Roman Senate, and in 6*CE the last ethnarch of Judea was deposed by the emperor Augustus and his territories were combined with Idumea and Samaria and annexed as Iudaea Province under direct Roman administration.[70] The name Judea (Iudaea) was removed after the revolt of Simon Bar Kochba in 135*CE, after which the area was called Syria Palaestina, (Greek: Παλαιστίνη, Palaistinē; Latin: Palaestina.)
[edit]


Iron Age I (1200*BCE - 1000*BCE)

The Merneptah stele (JE 31408), bearing the first record of the name Israel (Cairo Museum)
The name Israel first appears in the stele of the Egyptian pharaoh Merneptah c. 1209*BCE, "Israel is laid waste and his seed is no more."[17] This "Israel" was a cultural and probably political entity of the central highlands, well enough established to be perceived by the Egyptians as a possible challenge to their hegemony, but an ethnic group rather than an organised state;[18] Archaeologist Paula McNutt says: "It is probably ... during Iron Age I [that] a population began to identify itself as 'Israelite'," differentiating itself from its neighbours via prohibitions on intermarriage, an emphasis on family history and genealogy, and religion.[19]


Iron Age II (1000*BCE - 550*BCE)

A reconstructed Israelite house, 10th–7th century BCE. Eretz Israel Museum, Tel Aviv.
Unusually favourable climatic conditions in the first two centuries of Iron Age II brought about an expansion of population, settlements and trade throughout the region.[26] In the central highlands this resulted in unification in a kingdom with the city of Samaria as its capital,[26] possibly by the second half of the 10th century BCE when an inscription of the Egyptian pharaoh Shoshenq I, the biblical Shishak, records a series of campaigns directed at the area.[27] Israel had clearly emerged by the middle of the 9th century BCE, when the Assyrian king Shalmaneser III names "Ahab the Israelite" among his enemies at the battle of Qarqar (853). At this time Israel was apparently engaged in a three-way contest with Damascus and Tyre for control of the Jezreel Valley and Galilee in the north, and with Moab, Ammon and Damascus in the east for control of Gilead;[26] the Mesha stele (c. 830), left by a king of Moab, celebrates his success in throwing off the oppression of the "House of Omri" (i.e. Israel). It bears what is generally thought to be the earliest extra-biblical Semitic reference to the name Yahweh (YHWH), whose temple goods were plundered by Mesha and brought before his own god Kemosh.[28] French scholar André Lemaire has reconstructed a portion of line 31 of the stele as mentioning the "House of David".,[27][29]

The development of Israelite monotheism was a gradual process which began with the normal beliefs and practices of the ancient world.[71] The religion of the Israelites of Iron Age I, like the Canaanite faith from which it evolved[72] and many other Ancient Near Eastern religions, was based on the cult of the ancestors and the worship of family gods (the "gods of the fathers").[73] The major deities were not numerous – El, Asherah, and Yahweh, with Baal as a fourth god, and perhaps Shamash (the sun) in the early period.[74] By the early monarchy El and Yahweh had become unified and Asherah did not continue as a separate state cult,[74] although she continued to be popular at a community level until Persian times.[75] Yahweh, later the national god of both Israel and Judah seems to have originated in Edom and Midian in southern Canaan, and may have been brought north to Israel by the Kenites and Midianites at an early stage.[76] With the emergence of monarchy at the beginning of Iron Age II the king promoted his own family god, Yahweh, as the god of the kingdom, but beyond the royal court religion continued to be both polytheistic and family-centered, as it was also for other societies in the Ancient Near East.[77]

 

[theliq]

Siagon seems to think Arabs on one side of the Jordan river are diffeernt from Arabs on the other side

Well it just goes to show what a complete CRETIN and BAFFOON YOU ARE,

The Palestinians are completely different from the Jordanians who originated from Saudi Arabia.

Such Ignorance could only be perpetuated by a ZIONIST IDIOT or are YOU just a WILFUL LIAR

Wow, you do realize that you just proved how ignorant you are? Majority of Jordanians ARE PALESTINIAN Arabs. in fact Jordan's Queen Noor, is a Palestinian.

Again, common denominator for Pali supporters = ignorance, illiteracy, inability for rational thought, ingrained bigotry.

Of course I know all that and your question was,that Jordan was like ISRAEL...the Hashimites came from Saudi Arabia and Palestinians from Palestine......the growth of Palestinians in Jordan is the RESULT of THE JEWS EXPELLING PALESTINIANS IN 1948,and their decendents.

I note you never commented on the results of RESOLUTION 181........When the Zionists became like their collaborators the NAZIS.........also now known as BLOOD RESOLUTION 181.........so much for idiocy,ignorance,totally irrational thought...I have to tell you that Palestinians have one of the highest rates of matriculation to UNIVERSITY, in the world.

You Guys are just a pack of BOZOS..and pretty hopeless ones at that.....what's it like to be THICK......

 

[Saigon]

Roudy -

No one is talking about Philistines.

The events we are talking about here pre-dated the Roman invasion by centuries.

No one is questioning how old the name 'Israel' is.

Try and post with a little self-respect.

 

[Roudy]

It's quite funny they steal the name Palestine, then these fake Arabs turn themselves into non semetic sea peoples of ancient origin! Quite a transformation and historical magical "hat trick"! Is there anything that's REAL with Palestinians?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philistines

It has been theorized that the latter Philistines originated among the "Sea Peoples". Modern archaeology has also suggested early cultural links with the Mycenaean world in Greece. Though the Philistines adopted local Canaanite culture and language before leaving any written texts (and later adopted the Aramaic language), an Indo-European origin has been suggested for a handful of known Philistine words that survived as loanwords in Hebrew.
[edit]Philistine language

Nothing is known for certain about the language of the Philistines.[2] There is some limited evidence in favor of the assumption that the Philistines did originally speak some Indo-European language. A number of Philistine-related words found in the Bible are not Semitic, and can in some cases, with reservations, be traced back to Proto-Indo-European roots. For example, the Philistine word for captain, 'seren', may be related to the Greek word tyrannos (thought by linguists to have been borrowed by the Greeks from an Anatolian language, such as Luwian or Lydian[5]). Some of the Philistine names, such as Goliath, Achish, and Phicol, appear to be of non-Semitic origin, and Indo-European etymologies have been suggested. Recently, an inscription dating to the late 10th/early 9th centuries BC with two names, very similar to one of the suggested etymologies of the popular Philistine name Goliath (Lydian Alyattes, or perhaps Greek Kalliades) was found in the excavations at Gath. The appearance of additional non-Semitic names in Philistine inscriptions from later stages of the Iron Age is an additional indication of the non-Semitic origins of this group.
[edit]

 

[toastman]

Roudy -

No one is talking about Philistines.

The events we are talking about here pre-dated the Roman invasion by centuries.

No one is questioning how old the name 'Israel' is.

Try and post with a little self-respect.

Hey Saigon. If no one is talking about Philistines, then why so the Palestinians themselves refer to them as Philistines!

 

[Saigon]

Roudy -

You are running away again.

Please acknolwedge the points made earlier, or I will simply keep re-posting them.

The points raised in 420, 423, 425.

 

[Saigon]

Hey Saigon. If no one is talking about Philistines, then why so the Palestinians themselves refer to them as Philistines!

Well, show us what you mean and let's take a look.

 

[Roudy]

Roudy -

No one is talking about Philistines.

The events we are talking about here pre-dated the Roman invasion by centuries.

No one is questioning how old the name 'Israel' is.

Try and post with a little self-respect.

The events predating Roman invasion have to do with Philistine which you conveniently. LIED when you said "they" can be traced to Ashdod blah blah blah. "THEY" the PHILISTINES are not Arab Palestinians, who have no history in Ashdod or anything in ancient Israel....STUPIDO.

You just want to lie over and over until you find another ignorant like yourself, such as Sherri and Liq with enough hate to buy your shit, no? Ha ha ha.

What a sucker.

 

[Saigon]

Roudy -

The events predating Roman invasion have to do with Philistine which you conveniently. LIED when you said it "they" can be traced to Ashdod blah blah blah. "THEY" the PHILISTINES are not Arab Palestinians, who have no history in Ashdod or anything in ancient Israel....STUPIDO.

No, they don't refer to Philistines.

And again....

""The earliest occurrence of this name in a Greek text is in the mid-fifth century b.c., Histories of Herodotus, where it is applied to the area of the Levant between Phoenicia and Egypt."..."The first known occurrence of the Greek word Palaistine is in the Histories of Herodotus, written near the mid-fifth century B.C. Palaistine Syria, or simply Palaistine, is applied to what may be identified as the southern part of Syria, comprising the region between Phoenicia and Egypt. Although some of Herodotus' references to Palestine are compatible with a narrow definition of the coastal strip of the Land of Israel, it is clear that Herodotus does call the "whole land by the name of the coastal strip."..."It is believed that Herodotus visited Palestine in the fifth decade of the fifth century B.C.".


btw. "Ignorant" is not a noun. It's an adjective.

 

[Roudy]

Roudy -

You are running away again.

Please acknolwedge the points made earlier, or I will simply keep re-posting them.

The points raised in 420, 423, 425.

The points you made? You just tried to lie by tying Philistine history or Arab Palestinian history. Your whole premise of Arab Palestinians going back ages is based in Philistine history, ASSWIPE. Who do you think you're fooling? YOU HAVE NOTHING, NADA.

Now crawl back under your rock before I give you another beating, mental midget!

 

[Saigon]

You just tried to lie by tying Philistine history or Arab Palestinian history

And again....

""The earliest occurrence of this name in a Greek text is in the mid-fifth century b.c., Histories of Herodotus, where it is applied to the area of the Levant between Phoenicia and Egypt."..."The first known occurrence of the Greek word Palaistine is in the Histories of Herodotus, written near the mid-fifth century B.C. Palaistine Syria, or simply Palaistine, is applied to what may be identified as the southern part of Syria, comprising the region between Phoenicia and Egypt. Although some of Herodotus' references to Palestine are compatible with a narrow definition of the coastal strip of the Land of Israel, it is clear that Herodotus does call the "whole land by the name of the coastal strip."..."It is believed that Herodotus visited Palestine in the fifth decade of the fifth century B.C.".

 

[Roudy]

Roudy -

The events predating Roman invasion have to do with Philistine which you conveniently. LIED when you said it "they" can be traced to Ashdod blah blah blah. "THEY" the PHILISTINES are not Arab Palestinians, who have no history in Ashdod or anything in ancient Israel....STUPIDO.

No, they don't refer to Philistines.

And again....

""The earliest occurrence of this name in a Greek text is in the mid-fifth century b.c., Histories of Herodotus, where it is applied to the area of the Levant between Phoenicia and Egypt."..."The first known occurrence of the Greek word Palaistine is in the Histories of Herodotus, written near the mid-fifth century B.C. Palaistine Syria, or simply Palaistine, is applied to what may be identified as the southern part of Syria, comprising the region between Phoenicia and Egypt. Although some of Herodotus' references to Palestine are compatible with a narrow definition of the coastal strip of the Land of Israel, it is clear that Herodotus does call the "whole land by the name of the coastal strip."..."It is believed that Herodotus visited Palestine in the fifth decade of the fifth century B.C.".


btw. "Ignorant" is not a noun. It's an adjective.

WHICH MEANT PHILISTINE, DIP! The same Wikipedia says the Romans changed Judeah to Syria Palestina in 63 AD. So which is it, idiot? Acknowledge you are fulla shit.

And again:

In 63*BCE the Roman general Pompey conquered Jerusalem and made the Jewish kingdom a client of Rome. In 40–39, Herod the Great was appointed King of the Jews by the Roman Senate, and in 6*CE the last ethnarch of Judea was deposed by the emperor Augustus and his territories were combined with Idumea and Samaria and annexed as Iudaea Province under direct Roman administration.[70] The name Judea (Iudaea) was removed after the revolt of Simon Bar Kochba in 135*CE, after which the area was called Syria Palaestina, (Greek: Παλαιστίνη, Palaistinē; Latin: Palaestina.)

 

[toastman]

Hey Saigon. If no one is talking about Philistines, then why so the Palestinians themselves refer to them as Philistines!

Well, show us what you mean and let's take a look.

Its hard to post a link with my phone, but look at any video on youtube and when Palestinians or any Arab refers to Palestinians, they pronounce it Philistine.
The reason I brought this up is because it seems like you said that the word Philistine has nothing to do with the issue. Could be I misunderstood you.

 

[Roudy]

Hey Saigon. If no one is talking about Philistines, then why so the Palestinians themselves refer to them as Philistines!

Well, show us what you mean and let's take a look.

Its hard to post a link with my phone, but look at any video on youtube and when Palestinians or any Arab refers to Palestinians, they pronounce it Philistine.
The reason I brought this up is because it seems like you said that the word Philistine has nothing to do with the issue. Could be I misunderstood you.

No, he's trying to be a clever liar by making ancient Philistine history and region, the same as Arab Palestinian history.

 

[theliq]

hey saigon. If no one is talking about philistines, then why so the palestinians themselves refer to them as philistines!

well, show us what you mean and let's take a look.

its hard to post a link with my phone, but look at any video on youtube and when palestinians or any arab refers to palestinians, they pronounce it philistine.
The reason i brought this up is because it seems like you said that the word philistine has nothing to do with the issue. Could be i misunderstood you.

idiot