Nancy Pelosi speech...she refers to illegals as "dreamers"...WTF

[Alex.]

 

[frigidweirdo]

Why call them "dreamers" if they are illegals?

Why always sugar coat reality? I HATE that!

Is it too difficult to call a spade ... a spade??

But they probably are dreamers. So, it's not sugar coating reality, it's stating something that is true.

Give me a break!

Fine, have a break, and when you're done with your break, you can say something to enhance the debate.

 

[gallantwarrior]

My daughter and granddaughters are "dreamers", too. Why should their dreams and their futures be stolen by criminals, or the offspring of criminals? Who gets first dibs? My genuine, natural-born US citizen children, or the brats dragged here illegally by their criminal parents? Who gets first cut of that pie? My family that has upheld the law and served this country, or a bunch of trespassers who have taken more than they have given? C'mon? Who has first priority when the limited resources are divvied up?

 

[Coyote]

There's not room enough for both? These kids essentially grew up in America, grew up American.

 

[frigidweirdo]

My daughter and granddaughters are "dreamers", too. Why should their dreams and their futures be stolen by criminals, or the offspring of criminals? Who gets first dibs? My genuine, natural-born US citizen children, or the brats dragged here illegally by their criminal parents? Who gets first cut of that pie? My family that has upheld the law and served this country, or a bunch of trespassers who have taken more than they have given? C'mon? Who has first priority when the limited resources are divvied up?

If your granddaughters are competing with illegal immigrants for jobs, then perhaps there's a problem somewhere?

Perhaps if the US helped Mexico more and made Mexico more prosperous, then many of these illegal immigrants wouldn't be flocking to the US. But many flock to do low paid jobs. You'd hope that with the education your granddaughters have received, that they'd be earning more than minimum wage.

 

[Alex.]

My daughter and granddaughters are "dreamers", too. Why should their dreams and their futures be stolen by criminals, or the offspring of criminals? Who gets first dibs? My genuine, natural-born US citizen children, or the brats dragged here illegally by their criminal parents? Who gets first cut of that pie? My family that has upheld the law and served this country, or a bunch of trespassers who have taken more than they have given? C'mon? Who has first priority when the limited resources are divvied up?

If your granddaughters are competing with illegal immigrants for jobs, then perhaps there's a problem somewhere?

Perhaps if the US helped Mexico more and made Mexico more prosperous, then many of these illegal immigrants wouldn't be flocking to the US. But many flock to do low paid jobs. You'd hope that with the education your granddaughters have received, that they'd be earning more than minimum wage.

Fridge: "Perhaps if the US helped Mexico more and made Mexico more prosperous, then many of these illegal immigrants wouldn't be flocking to the US."

Perhaps you can go to Mexico to make them more prosperous. The rest of us are attempting to maintain our way of life in the US.

 

[Unkotare]

"Dreamers and their immigrant families"
They always find a way to dress up and glamorize criminals and low-lifes.
Unbelievable how these shameless piece of shits can just shit in the face of fellow members of congress and the American public like that.
How do we continue to allow Democrats to think they can arbitrarily decide which laws to ignore and which to enforce? Aren't Politicians paid to see to it that our laws are enforced and abided by?
This is silly shit!

Oh, so you are a "criminal" or "lowlife" if you move to another country to make a better life for yourself but do so illegally?

"Lowlife" may be debatable. But the fact that these persons are here illegally in the first place makes them criminals. I do not favor rewarding criminal behavior.

Will Bush and his team end up in the Hague? Hell no they won't.

Why would they?

 

[usmbguest5318]

Are you really that cruel?

The term “DREAMer” describes young undocumented immigrants who were brought to the United States as children, who have lived and gone to school here, and who in many cases identify as American.

Those people were brought here by their parents. What did you expect them to do? Say, "No, Mom. You go to America. I'm staying here."

If they have reached their majority, then they can legally apply for green cards, work or study visas. If they are still minors, they get shipped back with Mom & Pop and may apply for legal residence when they do reach their majority. Once granted legal status, they are welcome to pursue citizenship and then follow the rules to import their families. If they are minors, and anchor babies (i.e. US citizens by current law), they will be sent back to wherever their parents come from and when they reach their majority, they are more than welcome to come "home" and pursue legal means to import their families. Of course, due consideration should be made of both the fact that the "dreamers" were brought here not of their free will as children. Due consideration should also be made when application is made to import former criminal trespassers as "family members".

To the extent the DREAMers in question are minors, I see you are indeed that cruel.

To the extent the DREAMers in question are adults, I see you are indeed that cruel.

I really hope you never find yourself "between a rock and a hard place" whereof there is no plausible basis whereby you could not have done something differently that would have prevented your being in that situation.

 

[keepitreal]

If your granddaughters are competing with illegal immigrants for jobs, then perhaps there's a problem somewhere?

Perhaps if the US helped Mexico more and made Mexico more prosperous, then many of these illegal immigrants wouldn't be flocking to the US. But many flock to do low paid jobs. You'd hope that with the education your granddaughters have received, that they'd be earning more than minimum wage.

This goes beyond jobs...
The financial burden they place on this country is enormous!

Most of them send a good portion of money back home,
it's not being placed back into the economy...
They can do this because we're providing their food,
housing, education, health care, utilities and cash.

Now it's our responsibility to get their country in order,
when we can't even get shit straight here?

Men and women died and sacrificed for this country,
for our freedom we enjoy today.
No one helped us to prosper, we helped ourselves

They should do whatever it takes to improve their country
instead of doing whatever it takes to enter this country illegally!

 

[frigidweirdo]

If your granddaughters are competing with illegal immigrants for jobs, then perhaps there's a problem somewhere?

Perhaps if the US helped Mexico more and made Mexico more prosperous, then many of these illegal immigrants wouldn't be flocking to the US. But many flock to do low paid jobs. You'd hope that with the education your granddaughters have received, that they'd be earning more than minimum wage.

This goes beyond jobs...
The financial burden they place on this country is enormous!

Most of them send a good portion of money back home,
it's not being placed back into the economy...
They can do this because we're providing their food,
housing, education, health care, utilities and cash.

Now it's our responsibility to get their country in order,
when we can't even get shit straight here?

Men and women died and sacrificed for this country,
for our freedom we enjoy today.
No one helped us to prosper, we helped ourselves

They should do whatever it takes to improve their country
instead of doing whatever it takes to enter this country illegally!

But then again they also help the burden by offering America businesses cheap labor. Everything has two sides to it. How many companies would be much poorer because they'd have to pay proper wages?

You're providing their food, housing, education, healthcare, utilities and cash? How's that? Illegals don't get food stamps etc. Any education is going to kids who will probably grow up in the US and become Americans anyway.

Yes, the US needs to get its house in order. It isn't doing that, and trying to sort out the immigration issue won't sort much out at all. What needs sorting out won't get sorted out because it's not in the interests of those who control the country to sort it out.

No one helped you? That's not true, but anyway. Go look up the World Bank, Bolivia and Water. The US govt has been enriching people by fucking over people in other countries for a long time. Invading Iraq, another example of the US govt trying to enrich the people through unethical means.

 

[SmokeALib]

Nancy Pelosi LOL...

 

[keepitreal]

If your granddaughters are competing with illegal immigrants for jobs, then perhaps there's a problem somewhere?

Perhaps if the US helped Mexico more and made Mexico more prosperous, then many of these illegal immigrants wouldn't be flocking to the US. But many flock to do low paid jobs. You'd hope that with the education your granddaughters have received, that they'd be earning more than minimum wage.

This goes beyond jobs...
The financial burden they place on this country is enormous!

Most of them send a good portion of money back home,
it's not being placed back into the economy...
They can do this because we're providing their food,
housing, education, health care, utilities and cash.

Now it's our responsibility to get their country in order,
when we can't even get shit straight here?

Men and women died and sacrificed for this country,
for our freedom we enjoy today.
No one helped us to prosper, we helped ourselves

They should do whatever it takes to improve their country
instead of doing whatever it takes to enter this country illegally!

But then again they also help the burden by offering America businesses cheap labor. Everything has two sides to it. How many companies would be much poorer because they'd have to pay proper wages?

You're providing their food, housing, education, healthcare, utilities and cash? How's that? Illegals don't get food stamps etc. Any education is going to kids who will probably grow up in the US and become Americans anyway.

Yes, the US needs to get its house in order. It isn't doing that, and trying to sort out the immigration issue won't sort much out at all. What needs sorting out won't get sorted out because it's not in the interests of those who control the country to sort it out.

No one helped you? That's not true, but anyway. Go look up the World Bank, Bolivia and Water. The US govt has been enriching people by fucking over people in other countries for a long time. Invading Iraq, another example of the US govt trying to enrich the people through unethical means.

But then again they also help the burden by offering America businesses cheap labor. Everything has two sides to it. How many companies would be much poorer because they'd have to pay proper wages

I wasn't very happy with the post I left in haste,
I had to leave for work....

So, let's get this party started, shall we

I'm assuming your statement..
But then again they also help the burden
by offering America businesses cheap labor.

was in response to mine...
This goes beyond jobs...
The financial burden they place on this country is enormous!

How do you figure, illegal immigrants help ease
the financial burden they place on our country,
because they work under the table for petty cash?

Are they paying taxes? No, they are not...
Neither is the employer paying them under the table.
Is this money circulated back into our economy?
No, it is not!

Illegal immigrants send home $50 billion annually
but cost taxpayers more than $113 billion

Illegal immigrants residing in the U.S. send $50 billion in remittances to their home countries each year, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis. The World Bank estimates that number is even higher, closer to $120 billion.

Americans are the ones forced to pick up the $113 billion tab for taking care of the country’s 12 million illegal immigrants. Is it the responsibility of taxpaying citizens to cover the cost of illegal immigration and the government’s aid to these countries while illegal workers continue to send their money overseas to send $50 billion overseas?

Remittances - a massive transfer of wealth out of America

Remittances are monies sent by foreign-born workers (legal immigrants and illegal aliens) back to their home country. The transfers are facilitated by sending money through banks, making investments in the home country, or by returning to the home country while retaining bank accounts and other assets in the United States.

Remittances are essentially a tax-free transfer of wealth out of the U.S. Approximately $20 billion of Mexican remittances each year disappear from the U.S. economy via the institutionalized money transfer industry, never to return. While this massive amount may be considered virtual foreign aid, it is a non-sanctioned transfer of wealth that is based on a fundamental violation of America’s immigration and employment laws.

Projecting $26 billion sent as tax-free remittances by illegal aliens to Mexico in 2014,44 the negative impacts of this loss on the American economy would be significant. That amount would purchase 1.5 million cars or 15-million computers, and $200 billion sent back to Mexico over the past 10 years would have purchased Americans an astounding number: 15 million cars along with 150 million additional computers.45 It well could have saved countless homeowners from foreclosure.

Mexico received the largest amount of remittances in 2009). Of 10 countries receiving 40 percent of total remittances and related flows from the U.S., Mexico received about 61 percent of funds. Mexico’s central bank reported remittances totaling $21.27 billion in 2010. Remittances are indeed a significant source of income to Mexico. Remittance inflows of $25.3 billion to Mexico comprised approximately 3 percent of Mexico’s 2008 GDP.

This is from 2014...I'm sure this amount has doubled... easily

Companies would be poorer?
No, businesses would see less profits.
If you're a good business owner, you should know
how to drive your sales, if not, might be in the wrong business!

You're providing their food, housing, education, healthcare, utilities and cash? How's that? Illegals don't get food stamps etc. Any education is going to kids who will probably grow up in the US and become Americans anyway.

They don't? Think again!
Illegal immigrants can apply for assistance
on behalf of their u.s. born children..plus there's other numerous loopholes.
Which, I might add, is thanks to ofuckingcantwaittilyourgone
The majority of welfare recipients are immigrants...legal and illegal

And, this is data from 2012, wtf do you think it is now?!

Welfare Use by Legal and Illegal Immigrant Households

• 
  
  • An estimated 49 percent of households headed by legal immigrants used one or more welfare programs in 2012, compared to 30 percent of households headed by natives.
  • Households headed by legal immigrants have higher use rates than native households overall and for cash programs (14 percent vs. 10 percent), food programs (36 percent vs. 22 percent), and Medicaid (39 percent vs. 23 percent). Use of housing programs is similar.
  • Legal immigrant households account for three-quarters of all immigrant households accessing one or more welfare programs.
  • Less-educated legal immigrants make extensive use of every type of welfare program, including cash, food, Medicaid, and housing.
  • The overwhelming majority of illegal immigrants have modest levels of education; therefore, the high use of welfare associated with less-educated legal immigrants indicates that legalization would likely increase welfare costs, particularly for cash and housing programs.
  • Restrictions on new legal immigrants’ access to welfare have not prevented them from accessing programs at high rates because restrictions often apply to only a modest share of immigrants at any one time, some programs are not restricted, there are numerous exceptions and exemptions, and some provisions are entirely unenforced. Equally important, immigrants, including those illegally in the country, can receive welfare on behalf of their U.S.-born children.

Well, there's a comforting thought. A public school education...
dummy down kids, indoctrination and safe spaces...
where you can blow bubbles, color and play with play doh!
And, the point still being, we have to foot the bill!

You don't think that effects the quality of education?

Yes, the US needs to get its house in order. It isn't doing that, and trying to sort out the immigration issue won't sort much out at all. What needs sorting out won't get sorted out because it's not in the interests of those who control the country to sort it out.

I think immigration reform should go two ways

Instead of focusing on getting illegals out,
we should legalize everyones immigration status
and they should have to pay a monthly reimbursement fee
for the financial strain of benefiting yet not having contributed,
plus, they need to start holding 'sponsors' accountable as well.

The focus needs to shift to stopping the flow, hence forth
and creating revenue from the immigrants that are here already

No one helped you? That's not true, but anyway. Go look up the World Bank, Bolivia and Water. The US govt has been enriching people by fucking over people in other countries for a long time. Invading Iraq, another

I told you the post was in haste but, you know what I mean...
Come on now...we can not sustain at this rate
We need to return to a time when people carried their own weight!

Nice having a decent discussion for a change, thanks

 

[gallantwarrior]

"Dreamers and their immigrant families"
They always find a way to dress up and glamorize criminals and low-lifes.
Unbelievable how these shameless piece of shits can just shit in the face of fellow members of congress and the American public like that.
How do we continue to allow Democrats to think they can arbitrarily decide which laws to ignore and which to enforce? Aren't Politicians paid to see to it that our laws are enforced and abided by?
This is silly shit!

Oh, so you are a "criminal" or "lowlife" if you move to another country to make a better life for yourself but do so illegally?

"Lowlife" may be debatable. But the fact that these persons are here illegally in the first place makes them criminals. I do not favor rewarding criminal behavior.

Who isn't a criminal in the US?

You don't favor rewarding criminal behavior, but this is the US dude, where the biggest criminals get rewarded on a daily basis. Will Bush and his team end up in the Hague? Hell no they won't.

Still doesn't make it right, does it? Let's change it, then!

Well, I've been talking about real and proper change for a long time, and all I hit is a brick wall. People aren't interested in real change. You talk about making Congress Proportional Representation, the Presidency elected through one person one vote with a run off and you get "oh, no, no no, we like our system" days after saying it was all corrupt.

One person-one vote, BUT, there should be a definitive method of determining that those casting votes are genuine citizens of this country. And no, just because they live here does not entitle them to a vote. No other country on this planet permits non-citizens to vote in their elections.

 

[gallantwarrior]

My daughter and granddaughters are "dreamers", too. Why should their dreams and their futures be stolen by criminals, or the offspring of criminals? Who gets first dibs? My genuine, natural-born US citizen children, or the brats dragged here illegally by their criminal parents? Who gets first cut of that pie? My family that has upheld the law and served this country, or a bunch of trespassers who have taken more than they have given? C'mon? Who has first priority when the limited resources are divvied up?

If your granddaughters are competing with illegal immigrants for jobs, then perhaps there's a problem somewhere?

Perhaps if the US helped Mexico more and made Mexico more prosperous, then many of these illegal immigrants wouldn't be flocking to the US. But many flock to do low paid jobs. You'd hope that with the education your granddaughters have received, that they'd be earning more than minimum wage.

My granddaughters are not yet in high school. I am thankful that they are overseas and enrolled in DOD schools where they will get a decent education. Otherwise, they would be home-schooled. Public schools are, for the most part, nothing more than part of the government indoctrination mills. I appreciate that my granddaughters are learning mathematics and literacy in written and verbal communications, as well as science (real science, not the PC version presented to public school victims) and history.
Why should the US make Mexico more prosperous? Perhaps if the cowards and leeches who slither over here for cheap jobs and welfare handouts stayed home and worked to make their own country better, things would change on both sides of the border.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Are you really that cruel?

The term “DREAMer” describes young undocumented immigrants who were brought to the United States as children, who have lived and gone to school here, and who in many cases identify as American.

Those people were brought here by their parents. What did you expect them to do? Say, "No, Mom. You go to America. I'm staying here."

If they have reached their majority, then they can legally apply for green cards, work or study visas. If they are still minors, they get shipped back with Mom & Pop and may apply for legal residence when they do reach their majority. Once granted legal status, they are welcome to pursue citizenship and then follow the rules to import their families. If they are minors, and anchor babies (i.e. US citizens by current law), they will be sent back to wherever their parents come from and when they reach their majority, they are more than welcome to come "home" and pursue legal means to import their families. Of course, due consideration should be made of both the fact that the "dreamers" were brought here not of their free will as children. Due consideration should also be made when application is made to import former criminal trespassers as "family members".

To the extent the DREAMers in question are minors, I see you are indeed that cruel.

To the extent the DREAMers in question are adults, I see you are indeed that cruel.

I really hope you never find yourself "between a rock and a hard place" whereof there is no plausible basis whereby you could not have done something differently that would have prevented your being in that situation.

Cruel in what way? The parents have broken our laws. They should, at the very least, be sent back where they come from. At least I allow some relief for the "dreamers", or the anchor babies. Hell, deporting them with their parents will keep the families together while still recognizing their birth here and providing the ability to return when they reach their majority, and to apply to bring their criminal parents back legally.

 

[gallantwarrior]

If your granddaughters are competing with illegal immigrants for jobs, then perhaps there's a problem somewhere?

Perhaps if the US helped Mexico more and made Mexico more prosperous, then many of these illegal immigrants wouldn't be flocking to the US. But many flock to do low paid jobs. You'd hope that with the education your granddaughters have received, that they'd be earning more than minimum wage.

This goes beyond jobs...
The financial burden they place on this country is enormous!

Most of them send a good portion of money back home,
it's not being placed back into the economy...
They can do this because we're providing their food,
housing, education, health care, utilities and cash.

Now it's our responsibility to get their country in order,
when we can't even get shit straight here?

Men and women died and sacrificed for this country,
for our freedom we enjoy today.
No one helped us to prosper, we helped ourselves

They should do whatever it takes to improve their country
instead of doing whatever it takes to enter this country illegally!

But then again they also help the burden by offering America businesses cheap labor. Everything has two sides to it. How many companies would be much poorer because they'd have to pay proper wages?

You're providing their food, housing, education, healthcare, utilities and cash? How's that? Illegals don't get food stamps etc. Any education is going to kids who will probably grow up in the US and become Americans anyway.

Yes, the US needs to get its house in order. It isn't doing that, and trying to sort out the immigration issue won't sort much out at all. What needs sorting out won't get sorted out because it's not in the interests of those who control the country to sort it out.

No one helped you? That's not true, but anyway. Go look up the World Bank, Bolivia and Water. The US govt has been enriching people by fucking over people in other countries for a long time. Invading Iraq, another example of the US govt trying to enrich the people through unethical means.

But wait, by selling themselves as cheap labor, aren't they undercutting the American workers? So they are cheating legitimate citizens and residents twice: once when they take away jobs, and then when they take public assistance (paid for by those self-same workers they steal jobs from).

 

[frigidweirdo]

Oh, so you are a "criminal" or "lowlife" if you move to another country to make a better life for yourself but do so illegally?

"Lowlife" may be debatable. But the fact that these persons are here illegally in the first place makes them criminals. I do not favor rewarding criminal behavior.

Who isn't a criminal in the US?

You don't favor rewarding criminal behavior, but this is the US dude, where the biggest criminals get rewarded on a daily basis. Will Bush and his team end up in the Hague? Hell no they won't.

Still doesn't make it right, does it? Let's change it, then!

Well, I've been talking about real and proper change for a long time, and all I hit is a brick wall. People aren't interested in real change. You talk about making Congress Proportional Representation, the Presidency elected through one person one vote with a run off and you get "oh, no, no no, we like our system" days after saying it was all corrupt.

One person-one vote, BUT, there should be a definitive method of determining that those casting votes are genuine citizens of this country. And no, just because they live here does not entitle them to a vote. No other country on this planet permits non-citizens to vote in their elections.

Fine, do what other countries do. Have a compulsory ID card system. I'm personally opposed to such a thing, however I have lived in countries where they were required and they work. However people don't know what govts can get up to with such a system.

China is introducing a system whereby you get points for being good and lose points for doing bad, or knowing bad people.

China To Use Big Data To Rate Citizens In New 'Social Credit System'

"
China To Use Big Data To Rate Citizens In New 'Social Credit System'"

"How good a citizen are you? China hopes to answer that question for every one of its citizens with a numerical rating system based on their financial standing, criminal record and social media behavior. A new translation of the government’s plans for a so-called social credit system sheds light on how China aims to utilize "Big Data" to hold all citizens accountable for financial decisions as well as moral choices. "

And where does it all stop?

Do you want to move towards such a system? Or do you want to stay free from govt intrusion? There are consequences to both. Some people think that the instances of fraud in elections isn't so great as to force people to take ID cards to prove themselves. How do you prove someone is who they say they are? It's intrusive and annoying, essentially.

 

[frigidweirdo]

My daughter and granddaughters are "dreamers", too. Why should their dreams and their futures be stolen by criminals, or the offspring of criminals? Who gets first dibs? My genuine, natural-born US citizen children, or the brats dragged here illegally by their criminal parents? Who gets first cut of that pie? My family that has upheld the law and served this country, or a bunch of trespassers who have taken more than they have given? C'mon? Who has first priority when the limited resources are divvied up?

If your granddaughters are competing with illegal immigrants for jobs, then perhaps there's a problem somewhere?

Perhaps if the US helped Mexico more and made Mexico more prosperous, then many of these illegal immigrants wouldn't be flocking to the US. But many flock to do low paid jobs. You'd hope that with the education your granddaughters have received, that they'd be earning more than minimum wage.

My granddaughters are not yet in high school. I am thankful that they are overseas and enrolled in DOD schools where they will get a decent education. Otherwise, they would be home-schooled. Public schools are, for the most part, nothing more than part of the government indoctrination mills. I appreciate that my granddaughters are learning mathematics and literacy in written and verbal communications, as well as science (real science, not the PC version presented to public school victims) and history.
Why should the US make Mexico more prosperous? Perhaps if the cowards and leeches who slither over here for cheap jobs and welfare handouts stayed home and worked to make their own country better, things would change on both sides of the border.

"government indoctrination mills", who told you this? How did you get the information to know this is the case. Why is indoctrination bad? Every child ends up being indoctrinated by someone anyway.

Why should the US make Mexico more prosperous?

Why did the US do this for South Korea, Japan and West Germany? The US benefits massively from these countries being more prosperous. More prosperous means more people to sell to, it means less problems coming into the US, it means so much. But hey, yeah, fuck it, lets go back to 1945, stick the Marshall Plan up Truman's ass and make sure Japan and Germany suffer for what they did (as happened after WW1) and see how well that goes.

 

[frigidweirdo]

If your granddaughters are competing with illegal immigrants for jobs, then perhaps there's a problem somewhere?

Perhaps if the US helped Mexico more and made Mexico more prosperous, then many of these illegal immigrants wouldn't be flocking to the US. But many flock to do low paid jobs. You'd hope that with the education your granddaughters have received, that they'd be earning more than minimum wage.

This goes beyond jobs...
The financial burden they place on this country is enormous!

Most of them send a good portion of money back home,
it's not being placed back into the economy...
They can do this because we're providing their food,
housing, education, health care, utilities and cash.

Now it's our responsibility to get their country in order,
when we can't even get shit straight here?

Men and women died and sacrificed for this country,
for our freedom we enjoy today.
No one helped us to prosper, we helped ourselves

They should do whatever it takes to improve their country
instead of doing whatever it takes to enter this country illegally!

But then again they also help the burden by offering America businesses cheap labor. Everything has two sides to it. How many companies would be much poorer because they'd have to pay proper wages?

You're providing their food, housing, education, healthcare, utilities and cash? How's that? Illegals don't get food stamps etc. Any education is going to kids who will probably grow up in the US and become Americans anyway.

Yes, the US needs to get its house in order. It isn't doing that, and trying to sort out the immigration issue won't sort much out at all. What needs sorting out won't get sorted out because it's not in the interests of those who control the country to sort it out.

No one helped you? That's not true, but anyway. Go look up the World Bank, Bolivia and Water. The US govt has been enriching people by fucking over people in other countries for a long time. Invading Iraq, another example of the US govt trying to enrich the people through unethical means.

But wait, by selling themselves as cheap labor, aren't they undercutting the American workers? So they are cheating legitimate citizens and residents twice: once when they take away jobs, and then when they take public assistance (paid for by those self-same workers they steal jobs from).

Yes, they are. That doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing. I'm not advocating illegal immigration here. All I am doing is pointing out that there are positives to something you only see negatives for.

 

[frigidweirdo]

If your granddaughters are competing with illegal immigrants for jobs, then perhaps there's a problem somewhere?

Perhaps if the US helped Mexico more and made Mexico more prosperous, then many of these illegal immigrants wouldn't be flocking to the US. But many flock to do low paid jobs. You'd hope that with the education your granddaughters have received, that they'd be earning more than minimum wage.

This goes beyond jobs...
The financial burden they place on this country is enormous!

Most of them send a good portion of money back home,
it's not being placed back into the economy...
They can do this because we're providing their food,
housing, education, health care, utilities and cash.

Now it's our responsibility to get their country in order,
when we can't even get shit straight here?

Men and women died and sacrificed for this country,
for our freedom we enjoy today.
No one helped us to prosper, we helped ourselves

They should do whatever it takes to improve their country
instead of doing whatever it takes to enter this country illegally!

But then again they also help the burden by offering America businesses cheap labor. Everything has two sides to it. How many companies would be much poorer because they'd have to pay proper wages?

You're providing their food, housing, education, healthcare, utilities and cash? How's that? Illegals don't get food stamps etc. Any education is going to kids who will probably grow up in the US and become Americans anyway.

Yes, the US needs to get its house in order. It isn't doing that, and trying to sort out the immigration issue won't sort much out at all. What needs sorting out won't get sorted out because it's not in the interests of those who control the country to sort it out.

No one helped you? That's not true, but anyway. Go look up the World Bank, Bolivia and Water. The US govt has been enriching people by fucking over people in other countries for a long time. Invading Iraq, another example of the US govt trying to enrich the people through unethical means.

But then again they also help the burden by offering America businesses cheap labor. Everything has two sides to it. How many companies would be much poorer because they'd have to pay proper wages

I wasn't very happy with the post I left in haste,
I had to leave for work....

So, let's get this party started, shall we

I'm assuming your statement..
But then again they also help the burden
by offering America businesses cheap labor.

was in response to mine...
This goes beyond jobs...
The financial burden they place on this country is enormous!

How do you figure, illegal immigrants help ease
the financial burden they place on our country,
because they work under the table for petty cash?

Are they paying taxes? No, they are not...
Neither is the employer paying them under the table.
Is this money circulated back into our economy?
No, it is not!

Illegal immigrants send home $50 billion annually
but cost taxpayers more than $113 billion

Illegal immigrants residing in the U.S. send $50 billion in remittances to their home countries each year, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis. The World Bank estimates that number is even higher, closer to $120 billion.

Americans are the ones forced to pick up the $113 billion tab for taking care of the country’s 12 million illegal immigrants. Is it the responsibility of taxpaying citizens to cover the cost of illegal immigration and the government’s aid to these countries while illegal workers continue to send their money overseas to send $50 billion overseas?

Remittances - a massive transfer of wealth out of America

Remittances are monies sent by foreign-born workers (legal immigrants and illegal aliens) back to their home country. The transfers are facilitated by sending money through banks, making investments in the home country, or by returning to the home country while retaining bank accounts and other assets in the United States.

Remittances are essentially a tax-free transfer of wealth out of the U.S. Approximately $20 billion of Mexican remittances each year disappear from the U.S. economy via the institutionalized money transfer industry, never to return. While this massive amount may be considered virtual foreign aid, it is a non-sanctioned transfer of wealth that is based on a fundamental violation of America’s immigration and employment laws.

Projecting $26 billion sent as tax-free remittances by illegal aliens to Mexico in 2014,44 the negative impacts of this loss on the American economy would be significant. That amount would purchase 1.5 million cars or 15-million computers, and $200 billion sent back to Mexico over the past 10 years would have purchased Americans an astounding number: 15 million cars along with 150 million additional computers.45 It well could have saved countless homeowners from foreclosure.

Mexico received the largest amount of remittances in 2009). Of 10 countries receiving 40 percent of total remittances and related flows from the U.S., Mexico received about 61 percent of funds. Mexico’s central bank reported remittances totaling $21.27 billion in 2010. Remittances are indeed a significant source of income to Mexico. Remittance inflows of $25.3 billion to Mexico comprised approximately 3 percent of Mexico’s 2008 GDP.

This is from 2014...I'm sure this amount has doubled... easily

Companies would be poorer?
No, businesses would see less profits.
If you're a good business owner, you should know
how to drive your sales, if not, might be in the wrong business!

You're providing their food, housing, education, healthcare, utilities and cash? How's that? Illegals don't get food stamps etc. Any education is going to kids who will probably grow up in the US and become Americans anyway.

They don't? Think again!
Illegal immigrants can apply for assistance
on behalf of their u.s. born children..plus there's other numerous loopholes.
Which, I might add, is thanks to ofuckingcantwaittilyourgone
The majority of welfare recipients are immigrants...legal and illegal

And, this is data from 2012, wtf do you think it is now?!

Welfare Use by Legal and Illegal Immigrant Households

• 
  
  • An estimated 49 percent of households headed by legal immigrants used one or more welfare programs in 2012, compared to 30 percent of households headed by natives.
  • Households headed by legal immigrants have higher use rates than native households overall and for cash programs (14 percent vs. 10 percent), food programs (36 percent vs. 22 percent), and Medicaid (39 percent vs. 23 percent). Use of housing programs is similar.
  • Legal immigrant households account for three-quarters of all immigrant households accessing one or more welfare programs.
  • Less-educated legal immigrants make extensive use of every type of welfare program, including cash, food, Medicaid, and housing.
  • The overwhelming majority of illegal immigrants have modest levels of education; therefore, the high use of welfare associated with less-educated legal immigrants indicates that legalization would likely increase welfare costs, particularly for cash and housing programs.
  • Restrictions on new legal immigrants’ access to welfare have not prevented them from accessing programs at high rates because restrictions often apply to only a modest share of immigrants at any one time, some programs are not restricted, there are numerous exceptions and exemptions, and some provisions are entirely unenforced. Equally important, immigrants, including those illegally in the country, can receive welfare on behalf of their U.S.-born children.

Well, there's a comforting thought. A public school education...
dummy down kids, indoctrination and safe spaces...
where you can blow bubbles, color and play with play doh!
And, the point still being, we have to foot the bill!

You don't think that effects the quality of education?

Yes, the US needs to get its house in order. It isn't doing that, and trying to sort out the immigration issue won't sort much out at all. What needs sorting out won't get sorted out because it's not in the interests of those who control the country to sort it out.

I think immigration reform should go two ways

Instead of focusing on getting illegals out,
we should legalize everyones immigration status
and they should have to pay a monthly reimbursement fee
for the financial strain of benefiting yet not having contributed,
plus, they need to start holding 'sponsors' accountable as well.

The focus needs to shift to stopping the flow, hence forth
and creating revenue from the immigrants that are here already

No one helped you? That's not true, but anyway. Go look up the World Bank, Bolivia and Water. The US govt has been enriching people by fucking over people in other countries for a long time. Invading Iraq, another

I told you the post was in haste but, you know what I mean...
Come on now...we can not sustain at this rate
We need to return to a time when people carried their own weight!

Nice having a decent discussion for a change, thanks

You've put up how much illegal immigrants send home and how much they cost. But how much wealth do they make? I mean, if you're a business owner and you employ people at a much lower cost, and you're then more competitive that companies in other countries, do you then not make more money and make the US more prosperous? Sending home abroad happens all the time. How many Americans go on holiday abroad?

And estimated 35%-42% have passports

The Great American Passport Myth: Why Just 3.5% Of Us Travel Overseas! | The Huffington Post

But the reality is things work both ways. People enter the US and spend money and people leave the US and spend money. Is it equal? Almost certainly not, however it's still a benefit for the US and the other countries.

As for how much they cost, well, part of this is "aid to the countries where they come from", no offense but this has nothing to do with how much the immigrants cost.

But I'm going to point to how much the US gets out of these countries. Bolivia is the perfect example. The US uses the World Bank to influence countries to do things for the benefit of the US. I've used in the past the example of the Dairy Industry in Bolivia. The US govt went and gave "aid" to Bolivia via the World Bank in exchange for Bolivia privatizing the dairy industry.
What happened? Well foreign companies bought up the dairy industry, charged farmers LESS for their milk and other products, charged consumers MORE for buying those products and then shipped all the profits off out of the country. So these countries end up poor, and end up having a lot of migration to the US.

There's a big thing now of moaning about China "stealing" jobs from the US, it's ridiculous. It's all looking only at one side of a three sided coin.

Again, your info about "legal and illegal households" is mostly legal households.

Like this
"The overwhelming majority of illegal immigrants have modest levels of education; therefore, the high use of welfare associated with less-educated legal immigrants indicates that legalization would likely increase welfare costs, particularly for cash and housing programs."

How does the illegal immigrant get this welfare exactly? They're off the grid, they don't get healthcare, they don't get welfare payments, they don't get all of this.

To quote your source "since illegal immigrants have been barred from welfare for a long time."

So I think some of the statistics you have a little misleading.

Your source is biased.

Center for Immigration Studies - Wikipedia

"The Center's self-described mission is to "provid[e] immigration policymakers, the academic community, news media, and concerned citizens with reliable information about the social, economic, environmental, security, and fiscal consequences of legal and illegal immigration into the United States.""

It's anti-immigration and it is blurring the lines between legal immigration and illegal immigration here.