Nationalize Retirement Accounts

[Truthmatters]

so was Ibsen

 

[Skull Pilot]

so was Ibsen

Wow what a non sequitur.

 

[cereal_killer]

Thread cleaned. Please adhere to the posting guidelines for this forum. Back on topic. Thank you

 

[AmericanFirst]

This is a birther-esque rightwing conspiracy theory that's been passed around for a long time now.

This is one more example of the intellectually bankrupt paranoid cult that the Right has become.

Typical defense from a stupid libtard, deny what is happening in a failed attempt to defend the dimwited idiots leading this country.

 

[Jarlaxle]

On the flip side, the people on Wall Street who robbed investors around the world of trillions of dollars would like nothing more than the government to privatize Social Security so Wall Street can raid those funds, too.

It's a good thing Wall Street's attempt to get Bush to privatize Social Security was stopped. Can you imagine what would have happened to that money by the end of 2008?

KA-BOOM!!!!

No one on Wall Street robbed me of anything an I have been investing since I was 18.

And if I had control of the money confiscated for the SS scam I would already be retired and living on a tropical island.

I would still be working...but I'd at least have a paid-off house!

 

[Rozman]

On the flip side, the people on Wall Street who robbed investors around the world of trillions of dollars would like nothing more than the government to privatize Social Security so Wall Street can raid those funds, too.

It's a good thing Wall Street's attempt to get Bush to privatize Social Security was stopped. Can you imagine what would have happened to that money by the end of 2008?

KA-BOOM!!!!

What money, there's no money in the SS Trust Fund, just IOU's written on the same accounts they stole the money from in the first place. Now not only do the taxpayers get to replace money they've already paid, but they get to pay the interest as well. Private business people are put in jail for schemes like that.

If the debts owed to Social Security are worthless pieces of paper?

So too then are all the other debts owed by the Federal government.

And if that is the case then we need not worry one bit about the national debt.

Because I think it reasonable to assume that this nation is apt to tell it's foreign creditors to go screw before it tells 300,000,000 Americans to go screw.

I could be wrong, of course.

The Republicans obvious cherish China more than they do the American people.

We can see THAT as we see the GOP telling us that we need top screw social security recepients right now.

Because I think it reasonable to assume that this nation is apt to tell it's foreign creditors to go screw before it tells 300,000,000 Americans to go screw.

You screw foreign governments and that will be the last time you will ever be able to do that...

You screw the American people and they will vote for you the next election....
We just had that happen...

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

WASHINGTON, February 3, 2013 ― The $19.4 trillion sitting in personal retirement accounts like the 401K may be too tempting an apple for a government that is quite broke, both monetarily and morally. The U.S. Consumer Financial Protection Bureau director Richard Cordray recently mentioned these accounts in a recent interview, stating “That’s one of the things we’ve been exploring and are interested in, in terms of whether and what authority we have.”

This agency, created by the 2010 Dodd-Frank-Act, is very concerned about how safe your retirement savings are. They are apparently concerned that retiring baby boomers may become victims of financial scams.

If the government takes control of retirement accounts, it will not be called "nationalization." There will most likely be an indecipherable document that provides an opt-out option (initially), but why would you want to do that? The US government only wants to ensure the safety of your retirement funds; they did after all create a new bureaucracy for that specific purpose. And what could be a safer investment than US bonds?

China’s premier Wen Jiabao recently made a very polite, but very pointed statement to the US concerning its continued policy of debt monetization (printing money to pay the bills).

“We have made a huge amount of loans to the United States. Of course we are concerned about the safety of our assets. To be honest, I’m a little bit worried. I would like to call on the United States to honor its words, stay a credible nation and ensure the safety of Chinese assets.”

It is estimated that of the roughly $2 trillion China holds in currency reserves, about half is in U.S. Treasuries. While that may not seem significant, you would not want to know what would happen should they put even half of those treasuries on the open market. While that is certainly not expected, an escalation of Japan-China tensions in their ongoing (and worsening) argument over East and South China Sea islands, with the U.S. firmly behind Japan, means anything is possible.

Assuming that the island dispute does not turn into open warfare, there is still the matter of addressing the very serious concerns that China has voiced, and many other countries echo: We are devaluing our currency, which they are heavily invested in, at a rapid pace and with no indication of ever stopping.

This brings us back to that juicy apple hanging from the tree of our life's work. Nationalizing the personal retirement accounts would allow our government to borrow even more from its largest debtor (U.S. citizens) without further devaluing the currency. While this may seem far-fetched, as international pressure mounts to maintain the value of the dollar, you will hear more about this.

If at some date we find ourselves at a tipping point in international relations, it may very well come down to nationalizing our 401K’s or going to war. Many Americans are choosing to take their penalties and withdraw their 401K funds while they still can.



http://www.washingtontimes.com/neig...our-401k-about-be-nationalized/#ixzz2JwdGJUrD

It is estimated that of the roughly $2 trillion China holds in currency reserves, about half is in U.S. Treasuries. While that may not seem significant, you would not want to know what would happen should they put even half of those treasuries on the open market.

If they sold $500 billion in US Treasuries?
That's only about 4 months worth of Treasury issues since Obama took office.
I'm not sure anyone would notice.

 

[Freewill]

On the flip side, the people on Wall Street who robbed investors around the world of trillions of dollars would like nothing more than the government to privatize Social Security so Wall Street can raid those funds, too.

It's a good thing Wall Street's attempt to get Bush to privatize Social Security was stopped. Can you imagine what would have happened to that money by the end of 2008?

KA-BOOM!!!!

Problem is the market did recover.

Such a large influx of funds would have made the stock market boom or not drop as much.

I am not sure why people seem to think that investing in a government that prints money like mad is better then investing in private securities. How many have their 401K now in federal bonds??????

 

[Toro]

On the flip side, the people on Wall Street who robbed investors around the world of trillions of dollars would like nothing more than the government to privatize Social Security so Wall Street can raid those funds, too.

It's a good thing Wall Street's attempt to get Bush to privatize Social Security was stopped. Can you imagine what would have happened to that money by the end of 2008?

KA-BOOM!!!!

Problem is the market did recover.

Such a large influx of funds would have made the stock market boom or not drop as much.

I am not sure why people seem to think that investing in a government that prints money like mad is better then investing in private securities. How many have their 401K now in federal bonds??????

I would also like to know who these people are who "stole trillions of dollars." That sounds like we have entered the Terral Zone.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

On the flip side, the people on Wall Street who robbed investors around the world of trillions of dollars would like nothing more than the government to privatize Social Security so Wall Street can raid those funds, too.

It's a good thing Wall Street's attempt to get Bush to privatize Social Security was stopped. Can you imagine what would have happened to that money by the end of 2008?

KA-BOOM!!!!

You have such a distorted view of reality

I imagine that money buying stock in Coke, Disney, Hershey and Berkshire Hathaway

 

[ilia25]

I would like an opt out for SS. You can stay with the safety and simplicity of SS, or you can opt out and invest it to retire much more well off.

SS is redistributing system -- the wealthy pay for the poor. Thus letting the rich to opt out would leave the poor with greatly reduced benefits -- then why have SS in the first place?

 

[Mac1958]

It is estimated that of the roughly $2 trillion China holds in currency reserves, about half is in U.S. Treasuries. While that may not seem significant, you would not want to know what would happen should they put even half of those treasuries on the open market.

If they sold $500 billion in US Treasuries?
That's only about 4 months worth of Treasury issues since Obama took office.
I'm not sure anyone would notice.

The US bond market is in a historic bubble right now, that status is fragile as hell, and markets are watching it extremely closely for signs of a fall. In fact, as a write this, the 10-year Treasury yield is up to 2.00%, and many fingers (including my own) are on many triggers getting ready to short that market.

If the Chinese dumped half a trillion dollars' worth of treasuries onto the market tomorrow, that would almost certainly push us over the edge. Interest rates would explode, and the US Government's insane borrowing costs would do so as well. This action would fuck us up across the board, but good, and quickly.

The only thing saving our worthless ass is the fact that China's economy is now so inextricably linked to our own, they don't want to shoot themselves in the foot. So all they can do is implore us to get our shit together and stop borrowing like a sixteen-year old girl with daddy's Gold Card. That's how pathetic we are.

.

 

[editec]

ROZMAN REMINDS ME THAT:

You screw foreign governments and that will be the last time you will ever be able to do that...

You screw the American people and they will vote for you the next election....
We just had that happen...

That's a very perceptive comment, Roz

Very perceptive.


Of the roughly 14 trillion in government debt, only 5 trillion is owned by foreign nations or banks.

The rest of the debt is money Americans owe to Americans.

Of that debt about 2.5 trillion is debt owed to the social security admin by the federal government.

So while the government won't totally refutew that debt, the plan (mostly proposed by the GOP, but the dems will find some way to allow it and still blame the GOP for it totally) will be to NICKLE & DIME that debt such that SSI payments will become meaningless ... IF THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH IT.

AARP is probably the best hope for social security.

 

[Toro]

I would like an opt out for SS. You can stay with the safety and simplicity of SS, or you can opt out and invest it to retire much more well off.

SS is redistributing system -- the wealthy pay for the poor. Thus letting the rich to opt out would leave the poor with greatly reduced benefits -- then why have SS in the first place?

SS is not a wealth distribution system. It is a retirement system where what you receive in retirement is a function of what you contribute.

 

[rdean]

Listen to Republicans and the entire country can be as poor as the Republican base.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I would like an opt out for SS. You can stay with the safety and simplicity of SS, or you can opt out and invest it to retire much more well off.

SS is redistributing system -- the wealthy pay for the poor. Thus letting the rich to opt out would leave the poor with greatly reduced benefits -- then why have SS in the first place?

There is no as tax for the portion of income over106k and none on capital gains so the wealthy don't pay for the poor as you say

 

[ilia25]

I would like an opt out for SS. You can stay with the safety and simplicity of SS, or you can opt out and invest it to retire much more well off.

SS is redistributing system -- the wealthy pay for the poor. Thus letting the rich to opt out would leave the poor with greatly reduced benefits -- then why have SS in the first place?

SS is not a wealth distribution system. It is a retirement system where what you receive in retirement is a function of what you contribute.

And that function ensures that the poor benefit from SS disproportionally:
http://www.urban.org/publications/900746.html

 

[Toro]

SS is redistributing system -- the wealthy pay for the poor. Thus letting the rich to opt out would leave the poor with greatly reduced benefits -- then why have SS in the first place?

SS is not a wealth distribution system. It is a retirement system where what you receive in retirement is a function of what you contribute.

And that function ensures that the poor benefit from SS disproportionally:
http://www.urban.org/publications/900746.html

Probably. But it is not a wealth redistribution system.

 

[auditor0007]

I would like an opt out for SS. You can stay with the safety and simplicity of SS, or you can opt out and invest it to retire much more well off.

There is a huge problem with that idea. While some of you would probably do pretty well under such a system, we all know that a lot of people would opt out and make really bad investments. So what happens when a lot of people blow their retirement savings through bad investments? Of course, we cannot let them become homeless and starve in the streets, so we would end up putting them on some type of welfare plan that would cost taxpayers even more money.

Great plans are easy to create on paper, but unfortunately, reality doesn't usually work out the same way.

 

[dblack]

I think these sorts of threads actually obfuscate what's really going on. The government isn't trying to "nationalize" retirement accounts, any more than they're trying to "nationalize" health care. What they want to do is get more involved in regulating them. Which is even better, from the perspective of those who lust for power.

We're seeing the same pattern creeping into all aspects of federal government. While we're busy arguing over whether societal needs are best met with government, or businesses in a free market, the powers that be are creating an unholy alliance (the term they like is 'partnership') between corporations and government. Corporatism combines the worst aspects of statism and corporate capitalism and drives us toward totalitarian fascism.

Wake up. Please.