Negligent Homicide?

[Caroljo]

Citizens have the right to intervene in criminal actions if they see them, we do not give these up to the police, we merely lend them to them.

So what your saying is if the police cannot handle crime in an area people are just supposed to accept the fact and wait to be victims?

Since Martin was not engaged in criminal activity, Zimmerman was not intervening in a criminal action. I am curious, given that Martin was being followed by Zimmerman, what was he permitted to do to protect himself? If you were just walking along minding your own business and I attempted to stop and interrogate you, are you supposed to just stand there and take it?

Martin is black. You will never get any of these right wingers to admit any other possibility than that kid was a dangerous thug that needed to be put down. Even something as obvious as, "If Zimmerman was being beaten and smothered, how was he able to get the safety disengaged and why were his injuries so slight?"

Martin is black, period. The endless anti black threads on this site underline what the white wingers feel about African Americans. If the races were reversed, Zimmerman would already be on death row and we all know it.

And according to Martin, Zimmerman was a "Creepy Ass Cracker".....but that's not racist at all huh? Hell Zimmerman didn't even know the kid was black until he was face to face with him! Just love how you just know the truth when you were never there and there's no proof of anything you say.....

 

[kwc57]

I don't know if this is a crime in Florida, but it seems like Zimmerman could be guilty of this (but certainly not of murder). When someone brings a gun into a situation (outside of home), they should be held responsible for the potential results. What say you?

Definitely. He pursued Trayvon at his own decision. He used deadly force without the authority to do so. He should get 10 yrs. in my opinion. That would be justice served. Call it negligent homicide. That's fine. - Jeremiah

But he did have the authority to do so. It's called self defense.

 

[Caroljo]

I don't know if this is a crime in Florida, but it seems like Zimmerman could be guilty of this (but certainly not of murder). When someone brings a gun into a situation (outside of home), they should be held responsible for the potential results. What say you?

Definitely. He pursued Trayvon at his own decision. He used deadly force without the authority to do so. He should get 10 yrs. in my opinion. That would be justice served. Call it negligent homicide. That's fine. - Jeremiah

Who was supposed to authorize it? Should he have called the police, again, and ask if he can shoot someone because he was getting the shit beat out of him? He was legally carrying the gun, and you can use that gun if you think your life is in danger. We weren't there to see what all went on....but there were some witnesses, and by what they have said, Z had every right to do what he did. I heard Martin was close to his fathers house (before he circled back to confront Z)...so why didn't he just go home?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Its a manslaughter charge, Caroljo.

He followed Trayvon Martin when he should have reported it to the police and let them follow up to handle the report. They are the ones with the authority. Not him.

Manslaughter does not require the element of "Malice."

All that's necessary is that Zimmerman conducted himself in a manner that any reasonable person would have realized that it would be fraught with the possibility of resulting in someone's grievous injury or even death.- and then did.

 

[martybegan]

Its a manslaughter charge, Caroljo.

He followed Trayvon Martin when he should have reported it to the police and let them follow up to handle the report. They are the ones with the authority. Not him.

Manslaughter does not require the element of "Malice."

All that's necessary is that Zimmerman conducted himself in a manner that any reasonable person would have realized that it would be fraught with the possibility of resulting in someone's grievous injury or even death.- and then did.

So following somone = they will try to beat the everloving snot out of you?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I don't know if this is a crime in Florida, but it seems like Zimmerman could be guilty of this (but certainly not of murder). When someone brings a gun into a situation (outside of home), they should be held responsible for the potential results. What say you?

Definitely. He pursued Trayvon at his own decision. He used deadly force without the authority to do so. He should get 10 yrs. in my opinion. That would be justice served. Call it negligent homicide. That's fine. - Jeremiah

Who was supposed to authorize it? Should he have called the police, again, and ask if he can shoot someone because he was getting the shit beat out of him? He was legally carrying the gun, and you can use that gun if you think your life is in danger. We weren't there to see what all went on....but there were some witnesses, and by what they have said, Z had every right to do what he did. I heard Martin was close to his fathers house (before he circled back to confront Z)...so why didn't he just go home?

I don't know why Martin didn't go home. But if Zimmerman had just turned around and went home Martin would still be alive. As to the matter of self defense - had Zimmerman encountered Martin breaking into his home I'd certainly agree with you, Caroljo. Fact is, he was in pursuit of Martin and knew the risks for doing so. Manslaughter is the charge. In my opinion. - Jeri

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Its a manslaughter charge, Caroljo.

He followed Trayvon Martin when he should have reported it to the police and let them follow up to handle the report. They are the ones with the authority. Not him.

Manslaughter does not require the element of "Malice."

All that's necessary is that Zimmerman conducted himself in a manner that any reasonable person would have realized that it would be fraught with the possibility of resulting in someone's grievous injury or even death.- and then did.

So following somone = they will try to beat the everloving snot out of you?

Following someone with a gun = Facing consequences for bad outcome. - Jeri

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I don't know if this is a crime in Florida, but it seems like Zimmerman could be guilty of this (but certainly not of murder). When someone brings a gun into a situation (outside of home), they should be held responsible for the potential results. What say you?

Definitely. He pursued Trayvon at his own decision. He used deadly force without the authority to do so. He should get 10 yrs. in my opinion. That would be justice served. Call it negligent homicide. That's fine. - Jeremiah

But he did have the authority to do so. It's called self defense.

Had this happened as the result of a home invasion? Yes. Self defense.

As it happened as a result of Zimmerman playing cop in pursuit of a 17 yr old with a can of juice and skittles in his hands? It wasn't self defense. Sorry.

 

[PratchettFan]

Since Martin was not engaged in criminal activity, Zimmerman was not intervening in a criminal action. I am curious, given that Martin was being followed by Zimmerman, what was he permitted to do to protect himself? If you were just walking along minding your own business and I attempted to stop and interrogate you, are you supposed to just stand there and take it?

Martin is black. You will never get any of these right wingers to admit any other possibility than that kid was a dangerous thug that needed to be put down. Even something as obvious as, "If Zimmerman was being beaten and smothered, how was he able to get the safety disengaged and why were his injuries so slight?"

Martin is black, period. The endless anti black threads on this site underline what the white wingers feel about African Americans. If the races were reversed, Zimmerman would already be on death row and we all know it.

And according to Martin, Zimmerman was a "Creepy Ass Cracker".....but that's not racist at all huh? Hell Zimmerman didn't even know the kid was black until he was face to face with him! Just love how you just know the truth when you were never there and there's no proof of anything you say.....

Yes, he did. He specifically told the police Martin was black in the recorded phone call.

 

[PratchettFan]

Its a manslaughter charge, Caroljo.

He followed Trayvon Martin when he should have reported it to the police and let them follow up to handle the report. They are the ones with the authority. Not him.

Manslaughter does not require the element of "Malice."

All that's necessary is that Zimmerman conducted himself in a manner that any reasonable person would have realized that it would be fraught with the possibility of resulting in someone's grievous injury or even death.- and then did.

So following somone = they will try to beat the everloving snot out of you?

Yeah. I'd say that is a fair assessment.

 

[kwc57]

Definitely. He pursued Trayvon at his own decision. He used deadly force without the authority to do so. He should get 10 yrs. in my opinion. That would be justice served. Call it negligent homicide. That's fine. - Jeremiah

But he did have the authority to do so. It's called self defense.

Had this happened as the result of a home invasion? Yes. Self defense.

As it happened as a result of Zimmerman playing cop in pursuit of a 17 yr old with a can of juice and skittles in his hands? It wasn't self defense. Sorry.

Well, you're wrong. Location has nothing to do with it. If you are attacked and you fear for your life, you can defend yourself. Sorry.

 

[PratchettFan]

But he did have the authority to do so. It's called self defense.

Had this happened as the result of a home invasion? Yes. Self defense.

As it happened as a result of Zimmerman playing cop in pursuit of a 17 yr old with a can of juice and skittles in his hands? It wasn't self defense. Sorry.

Well, you're wrong. Location has nothing to do with it. If you are attacked and you fear for your life, you can defend yourself. Sorry.

So, if I start a fight with you and it turns out I am getting my ass kicked rather than what I expected it to be, it's ok for me to shoot you instead?

 

[kwc57]

Had this happened as the result of a home invasion? Yes. Self defense.

As it happened as a result of Zimmerman playing cop in pursuit of a 17 yr old with a can of juice and skittles in his hands? It wasn't self defense. Sorry.

Well, you're wrong. Location has nothing to do with it. If you are attacked and you fear for your life, you can defend yourself. Sorry.

So, if I start a fight with you and it turns out I am getting my ass kicked rather than what I expected it to be, it's ok for me to shoot you instead?

If you started the fight, probably not. I'd be the one defending myself against you.....and kicking your ass.....as a result. The particulars matter, and they matter a lot. Do you really not understand the concept of self defense?

 

[Caroljo]

Definitely. He pursued Trayvon at his own decision. He used deadly force without the authority to do so. He should get 10 yrs. in my opinion. That would be justice served. Call it negligent homicide. That's fine. - Jeremiah

Who was supposed to authorize it? Should he have called the police, again, and ask if he can shoot someone because he was getting the shit beat out of him? He was legally carrying the gun, and you can use that gun if you think your life is in danger. We weren't there to see what all went on....but there were some witnesses, and by what they have said, Z had every right to do what he did. I heard Martin was close to his fathers house (before he circled back to confront Z)...so why didn't he just go home?

I don't know why Martin didn't go home. But if Zimmerman had just turned around and went home Martin would still be alive. As to the matter of self defense - had Zimmerman encountered Martin breaking into his home I'd certainly agree with you, Caroljo. Fact is, he was in pursuit of Martin and knew the risks for doing so. Manslaughter is the charge. In my opinion. - Jeri

What I've heard all along is that Zimmerman turned around and was going back to his truck because he lost sight of Martin (remember he said the kid was running away), where then Martin confronted him. Had that changed that I didn't hear about? Because if that's still the case, then Martin had a chance to go home and the whole thing would have been over.

 

[Caroljo]

Zimmerman DID call the police. They new he was following Martin. Then Martin supposedly ran off (remember the 911 call where he said "he's running" ? ) That's when Martin headed back to his truck.

Martins so called girlfriend stated that Martin called the person following a Creepy Ass Cracker. I think Martin was getting pissed about it and decided to take care of that person following him in his own way, which was the wrong way. Like I said, if he'd just gone home he'd still be alive today. He had that chance.

 

[Missourian]

Had this happened as the result of a home invasion? Yes. Self defense.

As it happened as a result of Zimmerman playing cop in pursuit of a 17 yr old with a can of juice and skittles in his hands? It wasn't self defense. Sorry.

Well, you're wrong. Location has nothing to do with it. If you are attacked and you fear for your life, you can defend yourself. Sorry.

So, if I start a fight with you and it turns out I am getting my ass kicked rather than what I expected it to be, it's ok for me to shoot you instead?

No, BUT, there is even an exception to the aggressor rule.

If you give up the fight, by say screaming for help and just defend yourself from blows while not delivering any blows and try to escape...this exemption comes into play...

The justification [for use of lethal force in self defense] described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:


Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:


Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant

​

That is the Florida Statute.

IOW, even if you are the aggressor, as long as you have used every means at your disposal to extricate yourself, you don't have to lay there and allow yourself to be beaten to death.

 

[Missourian]

I don't know if this is a crime in Florida, but it seems like Zimmerman could be guilty of this (but certainly not of murder). When someone brings a gun into a situation (outside of home), they should be held responsible for the potential results. What say you?

They are.

If they brandish the gun, it is a crime.

If the gun accidentally discharges, that is a crime.

If they leave the gun laying around unattended and someone is killed or injured with it...that is a crime.

Using a gun to defend oneself from death or grave bodily harm is self defense...not a crime.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Had this happened as the result of a home invasion? Yes. Self defense.

As it happened as a result of Zimmerman playing cop in pursuit of a 17 yr old with a can of juice and skittles in his hands? It wasn't self defense. Sorry.

Well, you're wrong. Location has nothing to do with it. If you are attacked and you fear for your life, you can defend yourself. Sorry.

So, if I start a fight with you and it turns out I am getting my ass kicked rather than what I expected it to be, it's ok for me to shoot you instead?

You see, if this were reversed and it was the Black Pathers patroling a neighborhood instead of Zimmerman and it was their white 17 yr old who was fatally shot in the chest this would be a different story for the people personally involved. If people would take a step back here and think about how Zimmerman acted on that night they would realize without him in front of Trayvon there would have been no confrontation.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Right is right no matter who agrees. Wrong is still wrong even when no one agrees.

 

[Missourian]

I am no Travon Martin fan, but Zimmerman was acting in a law enforcement manner and would not have had to defend himself if he had not actively pursued Martin. Having a loaded weapon in his possession obviously emboldened him to act more aggressively than he should have. He certainly was no innocent crime victim.

Yes he was.

He broke no law, and committed no crime.

No crime was committed UNTIL Martin attacked Zimmerman.

-------------------

In regards to the carrying the gun...

Should people who are bigger and stronger be held to a higher standard because being bigger and stronger emboldens them to act more aggressively in following a suspicious person?