Nelson Mandela dead

[bodecea]

of course msnbc would pay tribute to a suspected communist.

So FOX didn't.

 

[paperview]

of course msnbc would pay tribute to a suspected communist.

You're going to have to be throwing a lot of people off the bus for the next few weeks dude.

Ted Cruz:
Because of his epic fight against injustice, an entire nation is now free.
We mourn his loss and offer our condolences to his family and the people of South Africa.

George W Bush:
Laura and I join the people of South Africa and the world in celebrating the life of Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela. President Mandela was one of the great forces for freedom and equality of our time. He bore his burdens with dignity and grace, and our world is better off because of his example. This good man will be missed, but his contributions will live on forever. Laura and I send our heartfelt sympathy to President Mandela’s family and to the citizens of the nation he loved

Eric Cantor
I am deeply saddened to hear of the passing of President Nelson Mandela. The world has lost an exceptional leader who made the world a better place by illuminating in his own nation the shining light of freedom.

John Boehner:
Nelson Mandela was an unrelenting voice for democracy and his ‘long walk to freedom’ showed an enduring faith in God and respect for human dignity. His perseverance in fighting the apartheid system will continue to inspire future generations.
- See more at: http://www.speaker.gov/press-release....2rZeEwrb.dpuf

 

[bigrebnc1775]

of course msnbc would pay tribute to a suspected communist.

So FOX didn't.

OH well and your point? I'm sure they did.

 

[bodecea]

what exactly was your intent on mentioning race?

Your post, below, initiated that sequence...

obama orders flags flown at half staff for mandela but not for Margaret Thatcher

A reasonable person, seeing that, would probably infer that you were objecting to doing (flag-flying) for one, and not the other, because of (1) Race or (2) Partisanship.

I merely served-up some calm, rational feedback saying why I believe that the doing for one and not the other was not attributable to either Race nor Partisanship, but, instead, had more to do with Merit and Lasting Impact - real or perceived.

I went on to loosely and imperfectly reinforce the idea that it was not Racial in nature, by 'fessing-up that it was a White Guy, with his own share of knee-jerk Reactionary perceptions, who was giving that a re-think and reaching a non-Racial / non-Partisan conclusion.

And, to further and loosely and imperfectly reinforce that opinion, I even tossed a valid bone to the large Anti-Obama Fan Club, by stating that I didn't think Obama was all that free from such Racial and Partisan tendencies himself, but that I simply didn't think that THIS was such an example.

However-in-the-heck you got from THERE to charges of Racism is absolutely and positively beyond my ability to understand; not that that's terribly important, in the larger scheme of things.

I've got my own good share of prejudices and biases, but how you connected THOSE particular dots is WAY-the-hell over my head.

Hope that helps.

Not that it's much skin off my nose, one way or another.

Are you done throwing rocks at me yet?

I stand by my observation that I do not believe that Obama's half-staff-flag decision was either Racial nor Partisan, vis a vis the Margaret Thatcher comparison.

You are the one that brought up race, it was on your mind. You're using it now.

When one mentions race, does that automatically equate to racism?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

of course msnbc would pay tribute to a suspected communist.

You're going to have to be throwing a lot of people off the bus for the next few weeks dude.

Ted Cruz:
Because of his epic fight against injustice, an entire nation is now free.
We mourn his loss and offer our condolences to his family and the people of South Africa.

George W Bush:
Laura and I join the people of South Africa and the world in celebrating the life of Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela. President Mandela was one of the great forces for freedom and equality of our time. He bore his burdens with dignity and grace, and our world is better off because of his example. This good man will be missed, but his contributions will live on forever. Laura and I send our heartfelt sympathy to President Mandela’s family and to the citizens of the nation he loved

Eric Cantor
I am deeply saddened to hear of the passing of President Nelson Mandela. The world has lost an exceptional leader who made the world a better place by illuminating in his own nation the shining light of freedom.

John Boehner:
Nelson Mandela was an unrelenting voice for democracy and his ‘long walk to freedom’ showed an enduring faith in God and respect for human dignity. His perseverance in fighting the apartheid system will continue to inspire future generations.
- See more at: http://www.speaker.gov/press-release....2rZeEwrb.dpuf

Politicians doing what they do.
Cruz voted to raise the debt ceiling
Bush signed the patriot act bohner is a rino
Do I need to continue? Why don't you use a romney quote or christie quote?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Your post, below, initiated that sequence...


A reasonable person, seeing that, would probably infer that you were objecting to doing (flag-flying) for one, and not the other, because of (1) Race or (2) Partisanship.

I merely served-up some calm, rational feedback saying why I believe that the doing for one and not the other was not attributable to either Race nor Partisanship, but, instead, had more to do with Merit and Lasting Impact - real or perceived.

I went on to loosely and imperfectly reinforce the idea that it was not Racial in nature, by 'fessing-up that it was a White Guy, with his own share of knee-jerk Reactionary perceptions, who was giving that a re-think and reaching a non-Racial / non-Partisan conclusion.

And, to further and loosely and imperfectly reinforce that opinion, I even tossed a valid bone to the large Anti-Obama Fan Club, by stating that I didn't think Obama was all that free from such Racial and Partisan tendencies himself, but that I simply didn't think that THIS was such an example.

However-in-the-heck you got from THERE to charges of Racism is absolutely and positively beyond my ability to understand; not that that's terribly important, in the larger scheme of things.

I've got my own good share of prejudices and biases, but how you connected THOSE particular dots is WAY-the-hell over my head.

Hope that helps.

Not that it's much skin off my nose, one way or another.

Are you done throwing rocks at me yet?

I stand by my observation that I do not believe that Obama's half-staff-flag decision was either Racial nor Partisan, vis a vis the Margaret Thatcher comparison.

You are the one that brought up race, it was on your mind. You're using it now.

When one mentions race, does that automatically equate to racism?

When they use it in a negative sense yes it does.

 

[High_Gravity]

R.I.P Nelson Mandela a true hero.

 

[Sunshine]

The poem from which the move about him was taken:

Invictus

Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.

In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.

Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds and shall find me unafraid.

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

William Ernest Henley

 

[Katzndogz]

Nelson Mandela reminds me of Robert Stroud.

 

[Nosmo King]

The Right Wing Haters on this board have maintained their high level of consistency. The passing of a man who was universally admired for his cause and the results of his suffering and hard work in that cause has the wannabe Rambos here up in arms because:

Mandela was a Black man and therefore not merely different from the Haters, but inferior in their eyes. There can be no cause to celebrate the life and work of one lone Darky, so far as they are concerned.

Mandela resisted, protested and ultimately overturned a system of repression and cruelty. One group actively brutalized, repressed and discriminated against another (something that is always wrong, but something that is boorishly embraced by Right Wing Haters. Just ask them about Marriage Equality in America if you doubt me). The Haters would be even angrier, if that's possible, should any system that represses be overturned, particularly by those who had been repressed.

They slap the label of "Communist" on Mandela, in spite of the fact that Mandela created in South Africa a stable democracy that respects property rights and freedom for all citizens. It seems that this "Communist" label is all the Right Wing Haters need to do to signal to each other that they can openly despise someone without fact, proof or truth. They learned this tactic in the early 1950s when their political hero Sen. Joe McCarthy used it in his witch hunt to ruin lives and score some cheap political points. It was so effective at destroying reputations that the Right Wing Haters have added it to their despicable playbook of political action and have used it ever since.

If Mandela was a Communist, why is South Africa not a communist state? When given the chance to institute a new government for South Africa, why wouldn't an avowed Communist take the opportunity to impose Communism as a system of economics and political control? Why is South Africa the most politically stable nation on the African continent? Why wasn't DeBeers nationalized after the fall of the P.W. Boetha regime?

Is calling Mandela a Communist more appealing than just playing the race card for the Haters? Could the heat be too intense after calling Mandela an uppity ******?

 

[Peterf]

There are times for arguing politics and there are times to reflect on a man's impact on this world and the magnitude of changes that his shear force of character bring.

As free men who enjoy the freedoms we must surely guard, we must honor those who under the threat of death provided those freedoms that are enjoyed. I believe that Mr. Mandela will be viewed by South Africans in the same light as Patrick Henry, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and others from American history. For them, Mr. Mandela's impact was no less monumental.

Jefferson et al had a decisive and permanent effect on the development and history of the US. I would contend that Mandela's influence on South Africa, while positive in the short term, was temporary and did not survive his leaving office. His successors are corrupt, greedy and incompetent. His party, the ANC, now exists only to enrich its elite members. The future for S Africa is - imo -bleak.

The legacy of Mr Mandela is central to any assessment of his place in history. Imo he has no lasting achievement of any consequence.

 

[Peterf]

Mrs Thatcher was a close ally of the US and other NATO members.

Thatcher's legacy is viewed with some controversy inside her own country. General consensus on Mandela is fairly universally positive. Not a lot of comparison between the two to be had.

I entirely agree: not a lot of comparison between Thatcher and Mandela

That's because Mrs Thatcher was the Prime Minister of a free country, rightly subject to criticism from all angles. While Mr Mandela was given a free ride, sanctified as a secular saint and assumed to be infallible. The glaring faults in post-apartheid South Africa are denied by the appalling ANC and ignored by a fawning world media.

 

[Katzndogz]

The Right Wing Haters on this board have maintained their high level of consistency. The passing of a man who was universally admired for his cause and the results of his suffering and hard work in that cause has the wannabe Rambos here up in arms because:

Mandela was a Black man and therefore not merely different from the Haters, but inferior in their eyes. There can be no cause to celebrate the life and work of one lone Darky, so far as they are concerned.

Mandela resisted, protested and ultimately overturned a system of repression and cruelty. One group actively brutalized, repressed and discriminated against another (something that is always wrong, but something that is boorishly embraced by Right Wing Haters. Just ask them about Marriage Equality in America if you doubt me). The Haters would be even angrier, if that's possible, should any system that represses be overturned, particularly by those who had been repressed.

They slap the label of "Communist" on Mandela, in spite of the fact that Mandela created in South Africa a stable democracy that respects property rights and freedom for all citizens. It seems that this "Communist" label is all the Right Wing Haters need to do to signal to each other that they can openly despise someone without fact, proof or truth. They learned this tactic in the early 1950s when their political hero Sen. Joe McCarthy used it in his witch hunt to ruin lives and score some cheap political points. It was so effective at destroying reputations that the Right Wing Haters have added it to their despicable playbook of political action and have used it ever since.

If Mandela was a Communist, why is South Africa not a communist state? When given the chance to institute a new government for South Africa, why wouldn't an avowed Communist take the opportunity to impose Communism as a system of economics and political control? Why is South Africa the most politically stable nation on the African continent? Why wasn't DeBeers nationalized after the fall of the P.W. Boetha regime?

Is calling Mandela a Communist more appealing than just playing the race card for the Haters? Could the heat be too intense after calling Mandela an uppity ******?

Oh please. Mandela never made any secret of being a communist. He was quite open and proud of being a communist. He wrote the book "How to be a good Communist" . If you want a copy you can get it free.

How to be a Good Communist by Nelson Mandela | NOOK Book (eBook) | Barnes & Noble

There's nothing wrong with sanitizing history, but changing it so completely? No. Whether you think Mandela was a great man, a good man, or an ex con who had served a well deserved sentence, it doesn't change his essential political position. He was a communist.

 

[Peterf]

The Right Wing Haters on this board have maintained their high level of consistency. The passing of a man who was universally admired for his cause and the results of his suffering and hard work in that cause has the wannabe Rambos here up in arms because:

Mandela was a Black man and therefore not merely different from the Haters, but inferior in their eyes. There can be no cause to celebrate the life and work of one lone Darky, so far as they are concerned.

Mandela resisted, protested and ultimately overturned a system of repression and cruelty. One group actively brutalized, repressed and discriminated against another (something that is always wrong, but something that is boorishly embraced by Right Wing Haters. Just ask them about Marriage Equality in America if you doubt me). The Haters would be even angrier, if that's possible, should any system that represses be overturned, particularly by those who had been repressed.

They slap the label of "Communist" on Mandela, in spite of the fact that Mandela created in South Africa a stable democracy that respects property rights and freedom for all citizens. It seems that this "Communist" label is all the Right Wing Haters need to do to signal to each other that they can openly despise someone without fact, proof or truth. They learned this tactic in the early 1950s when their political hero Sen. Joe McCarthy used it in his witch hunt to ruin lives and score some cheap political points. It was so effective at destroying reputations that the Right Wing Haters have added it to their despicable playbook of political action and have used it ever since.

If Mandela was a Communist, why is South Africa not a communist state? When given the chance to institute a new government for South Africa, why wouldn't an avowed Communist take the opportunity to impose Communism as a system of economics and political control? Why is South Africa the most politically stable nation on the African continent? Why wasn't DeBeers nationalized after the fall of the P.W. Boetha regime?

Is calling Mandela a Communist more appealing than just playing the race card for the Haters? Could the heat be too intense after calling Mandela an uppity ******?

I personally doubt that Mr Mandela was, in anything other than a general sense, a Communist. But what is undeniable is that many of his close associates were and are. Many of them have been polluting the air waves today.

Your attitude is that any criticism of Mr Mandela's political standpoint is, by definition, racist. Just as many believe that negative comments about Mr Obama or his policies are impermisable.

 

[Nosmo King]

The Right Wing Haters on this board have maintained their high level of consistency. The passing of a man who was universally admired for his cause and the results of his suffering and hard work in that cause has the wannabe Rambos here up in arms because:

Mandela was a Black man and therefore not merely different from the Haters, but inferior in their eyes. There can be no cause to celebrate the life and work of one lone Darky, so far as they are concerned.

Mandela resisted, protested and ultimately overturned a system of repression and cruelty. One group actively brutalized, repressed and discriminated against another (something that is always wrong, but something that is boorishly embraced by Right Wing Haters. Just ask them about Marriage Equality in America if you doubt me). The Haters would be even angrier, if that's possible, should any system that represses be overturned, particularly by those who had been repressed.

They slap the label of "Communist" on Mandela, in spite of the fact that Mandela created in South Africa a stable democracy that respects property rights and freedom for all citizens. It seems that this "Communist" label is all the Right Wing Haters need to do to signal to each other that they can openly despise someone without fact, proof or truth. They learned this tactic in the early 1950s when their political hero Sen. Joe McCarthy used it in his witch hunt to ruin lives and score some cheap political points. It was so effective at destroying reputations that the Right Wing Haters have added it to their despicable playbook of political action and have used it ever since.

If Mandela was a Communist, why is South Africa not a communist state? When given the chance to institute a new government for South Africa, why wouldn't an avowed Communist take the opportunity to impose Communism as a system of economics and political control? Why is South Africa the most politically stable nation on the African continent? Why wasn't DeBeers nationalized after the fall of the P.W. Boetha regime?

Is calling Mandela a Communist more appealing than just playing the race card for the Haters? Could the heat be too intense after calling Mandela an uppity ******?

Oh please. Mandela never made any secret of being a communist. He was quite open and proud of being a communist. He wrote the book "How to be a good Communist" . If you want a copy you can get it free.

How to be a Good Communist by Nelson Mandela | NOOK Book (eBook) | Barnes & Noble

There's nothing wrong with sanitizing history, but changing it so completely? No. Whether you think Mandela was a great man, a good man, or an ex con who had served a well deserved sentence, it doesn't change his essential political position. He was a communist.

I guess he was just lousy at actually being a Communist. A Communist, who is despised and dismissed and derided by the Right Wing Haters would surely conducted himself as a Communist, imposing a Castro-esque version of Marxism after taking power.

He would earn his stripes as a Communist if he had created re-education camps of death, cruelty and revenge along the lines of Pol Pot, but Mandela did not. A true Communist would have recognized the vast natural resources and wealth in his land and nationalized diamond and gold mines the same way all other Communist leaders did, but Mandela did not. There could have been Stalinesque purges among the intellectuals, military leaders and bureaucrats, but not in Mandela's South Africa. In fact there were reconciliation boards set up to redress grievances with justice and fairness.

If Mandela was a threat as a Communist, show me the Communism!

 

[Peterf]

Your post, below, initiated that sequence...


A reasonable person, seeing that, would probably infer that you were objecting to doing (flag-flying) for one, and not the other, because of (1) Race or (2) Partisanship.

I merely served-up some calm, rational feedback saying why I believe that the doing for one and not the other was not attributable to either Race nor Partisanship, but, instead, had more to do with Merit and Lasting Impact - real or perceived.

I went on to loosely and imperfectly reinforce the idea that it was not Racial in nature, by 'fessing-up that it was a White Guy, with his own share of knee-jerk Reactionary perceptions, who was giving that a re-think and reaching a non-Racial / non-Partisan conclusion.

And, to further and loosely and imperfectly reinforce that opinion, I even tossed a valid bone to the large Anti-Obama Fan Club, by stating that I didn't think Obama was all that free from such Racial and Partisan tendencies himself, but that I simply didn't think that THIS was such an example.

However-in-the-heck you got from THERE to charges of Racism is absolutely and positively beyond my ability to understand; not that that's terribly important, in the larger scheme of things.

I've got my own good share of prejudices and biases, but how you connected THOSE particular dots is WAY-the-hell over my head.

Hope that helps.

Not that it's much skin off my nose, one way or another.

Are you done throwing rocks at me yet?

I stand by my observation that I do not believe that Obama's half-staff-flag decision was either Racial nor Partisan, vis a vis the Margaret Thatcher comparison.

You are the one that brought up race, it was on your mind. You're using it now.

When one mentions race, does that automatically equate to racism?

Yes it does in a way. If one recognises the obvious, that there are no such entities as 'races', then 'racism' becomes impossible.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

My son goes to various web sites like Reddit. One of them had a post yesterday where some young wit observed that:

NOW that Mr. Mandela has passed, Morgan Freeman assumes the mantle of being the world's wisest black man.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Jefferson et al had a decisive and permanent effect on the development and history of the US. I would contend that Mandela's influence on South Africa, while positive in the short term, was temporary and did not survive his leaving office. His successors are corrupt, greedy and incompetent. His party, the ANC, now exists only to enrich its elite members. The future for S Africa is - imo -bleak.

The legacy of Mr Mandela is central to any assessment of his place in history. Imo he has no lasting achievement of any consequence.

What a dilemma? The virtually universal opinion of the entire world as to Mandela's legacy versus that of a nonentity on a message board? Which to choose?

 

[Katzndogz]

No one hates Nelson Mandela. We might refuse to perform obesiance, but that's not hate. Hate should be reserved for real wrongdoing that harms the individual holding the opinion, reserved for obama for instance.

Mandela is not a saint, for most of his life, he wasn't even a good person. That's why he reminds me of Robert Stroud. A throroughly evil man, who somehow did great things.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

You are the one that brought up race, it was on your mind. You're using it now.

When one mentions race, does that automatically equate to racism?

Yes it does in a way. If one recognises the obvious, that there are no such entities as 'races', then 'racism' becomes impossible.

So where was race mention in my post?