Nelson Mandela dead

[rightwinger]

He was a communist.

That's a fact, junior.

Gonna have to suck it up and move on...

obama orders flags flown at half staff for mandela but not for Margaret Thatcher

I guess I can see how that would happen.

We're usually a little stingy with 'foreign dignataries' for whom we choose to fly our flag at half-staff.

Generally speaking, Ms. Thatcher was a good friend to the United States, and, in Britain's own modest way, they (and she) contributed to the winning end-game of the Cold War, but, in the final analysis, I'm not sure she made the same kind of lasting impression and impact upon Mankind that a Mandela or a Gandhi or the like does.

But that's just me, and a first reaction to the comparison - pure, unfounded personal opinion.

As a White Guy with some substantial (if residual) Reactionary tendencies, I, too, had a long moment of angst and frustration when I read that bit about Obama ordering flags to half-staff for Mandela, and not for Thatcher...

But, taking a deep breath, and taking a second look at it, and realizing that Obama has ordered half-staff for several folk, including Pope John Paul II and several other White Folk, it occurred to me that the move was probably NOT rooted in either reverse-racism nor Leftist sympathies.

Mind you, I don't pretend that either the present Administration, nor Obama himself, are not capable of such things.

I'm just not so sure that THIS is one such example.

Just sayin'.

More Conservative struggling with equivalencies

 

[bodecea]

He was a communist.

That's a fact, junior.

Gonna have to suck it up and move on...

obama orders flags flown at half staff for mandela but not for Margaret Thatcher

Margaret Thatcher wasn't black. We should not fly our flags at half staff for ANY foreign leader. Never.

Neither was Pope John Paul II...or wait...maybe he was.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

who?

yes who is mandela?

“Resentment is like drinking poison and then hoping it will kill your enemies.”

-Neslon Mandela
​

The case of hypocrisy of the left.Prime example of paperview.

 

[Kondor3]

And, my bad... I attributed the flying of the flag at half-staff for JPII to Obama... wrongly... when, on reflection, that happened in 2005, during GWB's tenure... whoops... duh... sorry.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

He was a communist.

That's a fact, junior.

Gonna have to suck it up and move on...

obama orders flags flown at half staff for mandela but not for Margaret Thatcher

I guess I can see how that would happen.

We're usually a little stingy with 'foreign dignataries' for whom we choose to fly our flag at half-staff.

Generally speaking, Ms. Thatcher was a good friend to the United States, and, in Britain's own modest way, they (and she) contributed to the winning end-game of the Cold War, but, in the final analysis, I'm not sure she made the same kind of lasting impression and impact upon Mankind that a Mandela or a Gandhi or the like does.

But that's just me, and a first reaction to the comparison - pure, unfounded personal opinion.

As a White Guy with some substantial (if residual) Reactionary tendencies, I, too, had a long moment of angst and frustration when I read that bit about Obama ordering flags to half-staff for Mandela, and not for Thatcher...

But, taking a deep breath, and taking a second look at it, and realizing that Obama has ordered half-staff for several folk, including Pope John Paul II and several other White Folk, it occurred to me that the move was probably NOT rooted in either reverse-racism nor Leftist sympathies.

Mind you, I don't pretend that either the present Administration, nor Obama himself, are not capable of such things.

I'm just not so sure that THIS is one such example.

Just sayin'.

You are a racist piece of shit. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS?

 

[Katzndogz]

obama orders flags flown at half staff for mandela but not for Margaret Thatcher

Margaret Thatcher wasn't black. We should not fly our flags at half staff for ANY foreign leader. Never.

Neither was Pope John Paul II...or wait...maybe he was.

We should not have flown the flag at half staff for Pope John Paul II either. No foreign leader should mean no foreign leader, period, end of sentence.

 

[Kondor3]

A list of some recent instances of the US flag flying at half-staff...

...Upon presidential proclamation, which has recently included: the interment of Frank Buckles,[24] the death of Senator Ted Kennedy,[25] the remembrance of the 9/11 attacks,[26] the death of Pope John Paul II,[27] the Space Shuttle Columbia disaster in 2003,[28] the victims of Hurricane Katrina,[29] the Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami,[30] the deaths of Coretta Scott King[31] and Rosa Parks,[32] the Virginia Tech massacre,[33] the Fort Hood massacre,[34] the 2011 Tucson shooting, the funeral of Neil Armstrong,[35] the death of Libyan Ambassador Chris Stephens, the 2012 shooting in Aurora Colorado, the 2012 Wisconsin Sikh temple shooting, the 2012 Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting, the 2013 Boston Marathon bombings.,[36] the 2013 Washington D.C Navy Yard shooting, and the 50th anniversary of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy...

Half-mast - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

========================================

Even though I blew it with the time-reference to the JPII example, the above looks like a fairly nonpartisan, non-racially -focused sampling deck, so, I'm gonna stand by my earlier remark that I don't believe the Obama flag proclamation, in the wake of Nelson Mandela's death, had much or anything to do with either racism nor partisanship... but... like I said... it's just an opinion.

 

[Kondor3]

obama orders flags flown at half staff for mandela but not for Margaret Thatcher

I guess I can see how that would happen.

We're usually a little stingy with 'foreign dignataries' for whom we choose to fly our flag at half-staff.

Generally speaking, Ms. Thatcher was a good friend to the United States, and, in Britain's own modest way, they (and she) contributed to the winning end-game of the Cold War, but, in the final analysis, I'm not sure she made the same kind of lasting impression and impact upon Mankind that a Mandela or a Gandhi or the like does.

But that's just me, and a first reaction to the comparison - pure, unfounded personal opinion.

As a White Guy with some substantial (if residual) Reactionary tendencies, I, too, had a long moment of angst and frustration when I read that bit about Obama ordering flags to half-staff for Mandela, and not for Thatcher...

But, taking a deep breath, and taking a second look at it, and realizing that Obama has ordered half-staff for several folk, including Pope John Paul II and several other White Folk, it occurred to me that the move was probably NOT rooted in either reverse-racism nor Leftist sympathies.

Mind you, I don't pretend that either the present Administration, nor Obama himself, are not capable of such things.

I'm just not so sure that THIS is one such example.

Just sayin'.

You are a racist piece of shit. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS?

If that remark was directed towards me (and it appears to have been), I'm not sure what leads you to believe such a thing, nor how that relates to the Mandela theme here.

 

[Peter Dow]

Condoleezza Rice on the passing of Nelson Mandela.

"Throughout history, a few special people have been able to transcend differences and change the world for the better.

Nelson Mandela was one of those people who had a vision for human rights and equality.

Those beliefs made him the father of multi ethnic democracy in South Africa.

All freedom loving people will miss him but we will never forget his sacrifice and his achievements.

My prayers and my thoughts are with him and with the people of South Africa."

- Condoleezza Rice​

Photograph: Condoleezza Rice greeting Nelson Mandela in the Oval Office.

http://s25.postimg.org/dw8ovbatr/condimeetsnelsonmandela500.jpg (small)
http://s25.postimg.org/p61eq9fv3/condimeetsnelsonmandela.jpg (large)

nkosi sikeleli africa - YouTube

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBKNXsFI_3s]nkosi sikeleli africa - YouTube[/ame]

Video: Condoleezza Rice on overcoming painful history, building democracy, compassion, x 4 aid in Africa, making a better world.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hUbhMHqHoM&list=PLC88B108ED71F35D4]Condoleezza Rice: From the Mountain Top to the Promised Land.[/ame]

I've enhanced (I trust) this video with a backdrop to give the impression of Condoleezza Rice speaking to us from Mount Kilimanjaro, the highest mountain in Africa, as if she has been to the mountain top, and from and with that vantage point, with her far-sighted vision, she leads the world into a better future, in a way most worthy of the vision of Nelson Mandela.


Rice for President Yahoo Group Message 2273: Nelson Mandela and Condoleezza Rice

 

[bodecea]

And, my bad... I attributed the flying of the flag at half-staff for JPII to Obama... wrongly... when, on reflection, that happened in 2005, during GWB's tenure... whoops... duh... sorry.

Even better.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

i guess i can see how that would happen.

We're usually a little stingy with 'foreign dignataries' for whom we choose to fly our flag at half-staff.

Generally speaking, ms. Thatcher was a good friend to the united states, and, in britain's own modest way, they (and she) contributed to the winning end-game of the cold war, but, in the final analysis, i'm not sure she made the same kind of lasting impression and impact upon mankind that a mandela or a gandhi or the like does.

But that's just me, and a first reaction to the comparison - pure, unfounded personal opinion.

As a white guy with some substantial (if residual) reactionary tendencies, i, too, had a long moment of angst and frustration when i read that bit about obama ordering flags to half-staff for mandela, and not for thatcher...

But, taking a deep breath, and taking a second look at it, and realizing that obama has ordered half-staff for several folk, including pope john paul ii and several other white folk, it occurred to me that the move was probably not rooted in either reverse-racism nor leftist sympathies.

Mind you, i don't pretend that either the present administration, nor obama himself, are not capable of such things.

I'm just not so sure that this is one such example.

Just sayin'.

you are a racist piece of shit. Do you understand this?

if that remark was directed towards me (and it appears to have been), i'm not sure what leads you to believe such a thing, nor how that relates to the mandela theme here.

what exactly was your intent on mentioning race?

 

[OldUSAFSniper]

Imagine that....Republicans actually doing the right thing

Yep. There was a day when GOP moderates actually carried some swag.

And screw Dick Cheney and Reagan for their deplorable actions.

That was back when they weren't so afraid of the rednecks in the Teaparty and primary challenges.

Well, since I am VERY PROUDLY both a redneck and a member of the Tea Party, and I am still very much a Reagan conservative, I would weigh in on Nelson Mandela's passing by saying the following. I have read his biography and know this.

There are times for arguing politics and there are times to reflect on a man's impact on this world and the magnitude of changes that his shear force of character bring. Most of us do not have the personal fortitude nor the personal courage to stand up for what we believe in the same way that Mr. Mandela did. To sit in a prison cell for 20+ years and endure some of the torture that he did? My sweet God in heaven, I pray that I never have to face that situation because I do not know if I am made of that type of cloth. I have to admit to myself that I probably am not and probably could not endure.

As free men who enjoy the freedoms we must surely guard, we must honor those who under the threat of death provided those freedoms that are enjoyed. I believe that Mr. Mandela will be viewed by South Africans in the same light as Patrick Henry, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and others from American history. For them, Mr. Mandela's impact was no less monumental.

Every man deserves a short prayer that God will watch over him. The passing of the least of us, lessens even the greatest of us.

 

[Katzndogz]

A list of some recent instances of the US flag flying at half-staff...

...Upon presidential proclamation, which has recently included: the interment of Frank Buckles,[24] the death of Senator Ted Kennedy,[25] the remembrance of the 9/11 attacks,[26] the death of Pope John Paul II,[27] the Space Shuttle Columbia disaster in 2003,[28] the victims of Hurricane Katrina,[29] the Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami,[30] the deaths of Coretta Scott King[31] and Rosa Parks,[32] the Virginia Tech massacre,[33] the Fort Hood massacre,[34] the 2011 Tucson shooting, the funeral of Neil Armstrong,[35] the death of Libyan Ambassador Chris Stephens, the 2012 shooting in Aurora Colorado, the 2012 Wisconsin Sikh temple shooting, the 2012 Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting, the 2013 Boston Marathon bombings.,[36] the 2013 Washington D.C Navy Yard shooting, and the 50th anniversary of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy...

Half-mast - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

========================================

Even though I blew it with the time-reference to the JPII example, the above looks like a fairly nonpartisan, non-racially -focused sampling deck, so, I'm gonna stand by my earlier remark that I don't believe the Obama flag proclamation had much or anything to do with either racism nor partisanship... but... like I said... it's just an opinion.

There are no foreign leaders in that list.

 

[bodecea]

A list of some recent instances of the US flag flying at half-staff...

...Upon presidential proclamation, which has recently included: the interment of Frank Buckles,[24] the death of Senator Ted Kennedy,[25] the remembrance of the 9/11 attacks,[26] the death of Pope John Paul II,[27] the Space Shuttle Columbia disaster in 2003,[28] the victims of Hurricane Katrina,[29] the Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami,[30] the deaths of Coretta Scott King[31] and Rosa Parks,[32] the Virginia Tech massacre,[33] the Fort Hood massacre,[34] the 2011 Tucson shooting, the funeral of Neil Armstrong,[35] the death of Libyan Ambassador Chris Stephens, the 2012 shooting in Aurora Colorado, the 2012 Wisconsin Sikh temple shooting, the 2012 Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting, the 2013 Boston Marathon bombings.,[36] the 2013 Washington D.C Navy Yard shooting, and the 50th anniversary of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy...

Half-mast - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

========================================

Even though I blew it with the time-reference to the JPII example, the above looks like a fairly nonpartisan, non-racially -focused sampling deck, so, I'm gonna stand by my earlier remark that I don't believe the Obama flag proclamation had much or anything to do with either racism nor partisanship... but... like I said... it's just an opinion.

There are no foreign leaders in that list.

Pope John Paul II isn't a foreign leader?

 

[Peterf]

Margaret Thatcher wasn't black. We should not fly our flags at half staff for ANY foreign leader. Never.

Neither was Pope John Paul II...or wait...maybe he was.

We should not have flown the flag at half staff for Pope John Paul II either. No foreign leader should mean no foreign leader, period, end of sentence.

I agree. Don't half-mast your flags for any foreigners.

Mrs Thatcher was a close ally of the US and other NATO members. Mr Mandela was not. His achievement was to make the end of apartheid a bit less bloody that it might have been. Nothing to do with the US. He failed to build a genuinely democratic S Africa. Not all his fault of course, but what he left behind was a corrupt one-party state, drifting slowly downwards. Not much different from the African norm

 

[Peterf]

Yep. There was a day when GOP moderates actually carried some swag.

And screw Dick Cheney and Reagan for their deplorable actions.

That was back when they weren't so afraid of the rednecks in the Teaparty and primary challenges.

There are times for arguing politics and there are times to reflect on a man's impact on this world and the magnitude of changes that his shear force of character bring.

As free men who enjoy the freedoms we must surely guard, we must honor those who under the threat of death provided those freedoms that are enjoyed. I believe that Mr. Mandela will be viewed by South Africans in the same light as Patrick Henry, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and others from American history. For them, Mr. Mandela's impact was no less monumental.

Jefferson et al had a decisive and permanent effect on the development and history of the US. I would contend that Mandela's influence on South Africa, while positive in the short term, was temporary and did not survive his leaving office. His successors are corrupt, greedy and incompetent. His party, the ANC, now exists only to enrich its elite members. The future for S Africa is - imo -bleak.

 

[Derideo_Te]

That was back when they weren't so afraid of the rednecks in the Teaparty and primary challenges.

There are times for arguing politics and there are times to reflect on a man's impact on this world and the magnitude of changes that his shear force of character bring.

As free men who enjoy the freedoms we must surely guard, we must honor those who under the threat of death provided those freedoms that are enjoyed. I believe that Mr. Mandela will be viewed by South Africans in the same light as Patrick Henry, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and others from American history. For them, Mr. Mandela's impact was no less monumental.

Jefferson et al had a decisive and permanent effect on the development and history of the US. I would contend that Mandela's influence on South Africa, while positive in the short term, was temporary and did not survive his leaving office. His successors are corrupt, greedy and incompetent. His party, the ANC, now exists only to enrich its elite members. The future for S Africa is - imo -bleak.

 

[Kondor3]

you are a racist piece of shit. Do you understand this?

if that remark was directed towards me (and it appears to have been), i'm not sure what leads you to believe such a thing, nor how that relates to the mandela theme here.

what exactly was your intent on mentioning race?

Your post, below, initiated that sequence...

Can we stop politicizing this man's death please? Geez. Why do people feel the need to make politics out of death? He's one of the iconic figures of the 20th Century, and all we can do is how it impacts us politically? For pete's sakes, knock it off.

He was a communist.

That's a fact, junior.

Gonna have to suck it up and move on...

obama orders flags flown at half staff for mandela but not for Margaret Thatcher

A reasonable person, seeing that, would probably infer that you were objecting to doing (flag-flying) for one, and not the other, because of (1) Race or (2) Partisanship.

I merely served-up some calm, rational feedback saying why I believe that the doing for one and not the other was not attributable to either Race nor Partisanship, but, instead, had more to do with Merit and Lasting Impact - real or perceived.

I went on to loosely and imperfectly reinforce the idea that it was not Racial in nature, by 'fessing-up that it was a White Guy, with his own share of knee-jerk Reactionary perceptions, who was giving that a re-think and reaching a non-Racial / non-Partisan conclusion.

And, to further and loosely and imperfectly reinforce that opinion, I even tossed a valid bone to the large Anti-Obama Fan Club, by stating that I didn't think Obama was all that free from such Racial and Partisan tendencies himself, but that I simply didn't think that THIS was such an example.

However-in-the-heck you got from THERE to charges of Racism is absolutely and positively beyond my ability to understand; not that that's terribly important, in the larger scheme of things.

I've got my own good share of prejudices and biases, but how you connected THOSE particular dots is WAY-the-hell over my head.

Hope that helps.

Not that it's much skin off my nose, one way or another.

Are you done throwing rocks at me yet?

I stand by my observation that I do not believe that Obama's half-staff-flag decision was either Racial nor Partisan, vis a vis the Margaret Thatcher comparison.

 

[Katzndogz]

Nelson Mandela gets the flags flown at half mast because of his contribution of the Mandela Necklace to mankind.

The man was very old. He was never going to live forever. He was very sick. He's been on his deathbed for a year. His wife dumped him after he was released from prison after waiting 27 years for his release. We should not fly American flags at half mast for any foreigner.

 

[bodecea]

if that remark was directed towards me (and it appears to have been), i'm not sure what leads you to believe such a thing, nor how that relates to the mandela theme here.

what exactly was your intent on mentioning race?

Your post, below, initiated that sequence...

He was a communist.

That's a fact, junior.

Gonna have to suck it up and move on...

obama orders flags flown at half staff for mandela but not for Margaret Thatcher

A reasonable person, seeing that, would probably infer that you were objecting to doing (flag-flying) for one, and not the other, because of (1) Race or (2) Partisanship.

I merely served-up some calm, rational feedback saying why I believe that the doing for one and not the other was not attributable to either Race nor Partisanship, but, instead, had more to do with Merit and Lasting Impact - real or perceived.

I went on to loosely and imperfectly reinforce the idea that it was not Racial in nature, by 'fessing-up that it was a White Guy, with his own share of knee-jerk Reactionary perceptions, who was giving that a re-think and reaching a non-Racial / non-Partisan conclusion.

And, to further and loosely and imperfectly reinforce that opinion, I even tossed a valid bone to the large Anti-Obama Fan Club, by stating that I didn't think Obama was all that free from such Racial and Partisan tendencies himself, but that I simply didn't think that THIS was such an example.

However-in-the-heck you got from THERE to charges of Racism is absolutely and positively beyond my ability to understand; not that that's terribly important, in the larger scheme of things.

I've got my own good share of prejudices and biases, but how you connected THOSE particular dots is WAY-the-hell over my head.

Hope that helps.

Not that it's much skin off my nose, one way or another.

Are you done throwing rocks at me yet?

I stand by my observation that I do not believe that Obama's half-staff-flag decision was either Racial nor Partisan, vis a vis the Margaret Thatcher comparison.

It's called the Race Card Card....and it's seen a lot around here. Hope that helps.