Netanyahu: The Arabs Want All of 'Palestine'

[HistoryBefore67]

The Jews don't want all of "Palestine" because there is no such thing as "Palestine."

The Jews want their historic homeland, which includes Judea and Samaria.

The difference between the Jews and the Arabs, though, is that the Jews are willing to compromise if doing so would truly result in peace. The Arabs are not.

 

[MHunterB]

In point of fact, however: those of us who are NOT Israeli citizens have no material 'right' to decide what the Israelis *should* be doing. Our opinions carry very little weight: and anyone who doesn't want 'Jewish interests' to decide US foreign policy should certainly understand that.

 

[Hyrcanus]

The Jews don't want all of "Palestine" because there is no such thing as "Palestine."

The Jews want their historic homeland, which includes Judea and Samaria.

The difference between the Jews and the Arabs, though, is that the Jews are willing to compromise if doing so would truly result in peace. The Arabs are not.

The Arab League offered full diplomatic relations with Israel if Israel withdraws to the 1967 borders with minor land swaps.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

Yes, it is, otter, and I'll explain why.

You, like most here, are an anonymous person on these boards. You have not revealed much about yourself, but you have claimed to be a Jew. You make this claim to convey the idea that there are Jews who have views that diverge substantially from most pro-Israel Jews.

Now, it is possible that you are telling the truth. There is, unfortunately, a small percentage of self-hating Jews who regularly attack Israel in favor of what I would call "Orthodox Liberalism."

However, another distinct possibility is that you are a liar. You could be a run of the mill non-Jewish anti-Semite who is pretending to be Jewish in order to add weight to your posts.

I, for one, find it entirely plausible that you are a liar and are not, in fact, Jewish.

Certainly, the answer to this question is relevant to how we should view your opinions on the subjects you are commenting on.

So, yes... since you opened the door to a personal characteristic, its fair game.

I am not the topic of this thread, so stop trolling.

I find HB'67's analysis quite accurate - and I agree with him. There is an overwhelming degree of unity among Diaspora Jews of mainstream normative Judaism (= O/Con/Ref/Recon - whether 'religious' or not. You can be an atheist Jew from an Orthodox background, for example).

Someone who identifies as a Jew yet expresses a POV persistently at odds with the normative mainstream consensus is indeed 'unusual' enough that the rest of us aren't all that willing to take their word.

We've also - as separate individuals! - encountered the posters who claim to be 'Jewish' who turn out to be converts to Christianity. And those who claim 'Jewish ancestry' of some more nebulous sort. I kid you not! One I recall was "My mother was from Poland and would only drink Manishevitz wine." Another one claimed to be the descendant of Jews who'd converted due to the freakin' Spanish Inquisition. And then there are the 'British Israelite' whackadoodles - with and without the 'Serpent Seed' racist filth.

If you wish, 'Hyrcanus', I can show you where you can see posts by such individuals......

And, I'll add... its not a one-sided thing.

If a new poster claimed to be a Muslim or Palestinian, but openly advocated for, let's say, Jordan to become the exclusive Palestinian State, I'm sure that many pro-Palestinians would question whether the person was lying about his or her background.

Had otter never claimed to be a Jew, we wouldn't be talking about this at all.

 

[Hyrcanus]

In point of fact, however: those of us who are NOT Israeli citizens have no material 'right' to decide what the Israelis *should* be doing. Our opinions carry very little weight: and anyone who doesn't want 'Jewish interests' to decide US foreign policy should certainly understand that.

We give Israel billions of dollars a year, since 1981.

We routinely veto Security Council Resolutions, so as to help Israel.

We in the USA have a right to voice our opinions on the Israel/Palestine peace process.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

The Jews don't want all of "Palestine" because there is no such thing as "Palestine."

The Jews want their historic homeland, which includes Judea and Samaria.

The difference between the Jews and the Arabs, though, is that the Jews are willing to compromise if doing so would truly result in peace. The Arabs are not.

The Arab League offered full diplomatic relations with Israel if Israel withdraws to the 1967 borders with minor land swaps.

The "1967 borders," which would include relinquishing sovereignty over Jewish holy sites in Jerusalem, is an obvious non-starter. Moreover, that is hardly all that the Arab League asked for.

 

[MHunterB]

The Jews don't want all of "Palestine" because there is no such thing as "Palestine."

The Jews want their historic homeland, which includes Judea and Samaria.

The difference between the Jews and the Arabs, though, is that the Jews are willing to compromise if doing so would truly result in peace. The Arabs are not.

I'm going to disagree with you on that last sentence. The 'Arabs' have no more right to decide for the Palestinians than we have to decide for the Israelis. The problem is, I've not heard any Palestinian public figure say anything like that - ever. (Admittedly, I may have missed such. I invite anyone to share if they've seen such statements)

What point is there in having a 'Palestinian' state if it's going to just be a carbon copy of every other Arab League state?

 

[toastman]

Nobody said you dont have the right

 

[Hyrcanus]

The "1967 borders," which would include relinquishing sovereignty over Jewish holy sites in Jerusalem, is an obvious non-starter. Moreover, that is hardly all that the Arab League asked for.

"with minor land swaps"

which would include parts of the Old City and East Jerusalem.

 

[Hyrcanus]

...What point is there in having a 'Palestinian' state if it's going to just be a carbon copy of every other Arab League state?

Because it is their right, under UN SC res. 181, 194, and 242.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

In point of fact, however: those of us who are NOT Israeli citizens have no material 'right' to decide what the Israelis *should* be doing. Our opinions carry very little weight: and anyone who doesn't want 'Jewish interests' to decide US foreign policy should certainly understand that.

We give Israel billions of dollars a year, since 1981.

We routinely veto Security Council Resolutions, so as to help Israel.

We in the USA have a right to voice our opinions on the Israel/Palestine peace process.

Nonsense.

The US's support for Israel is not gratuitous. The US has an interest in having a strong, democratic ally in the region.

I know that people like you love to claim that support for Israel is given because Congress is in AIPAC's pocket or some other crap like that, but do you really think that a group that represents approximately 2% of the country's population can strongarm the US Government?

Seriously?

 

[Hyrcanus]

Nonsense.

The US's support for Israel is not gratuitous. The US has an interest in having a strong, democratic ally in the region.

I know that people like you love to claim that support for Israel is given because Congress is in AIPAC's pocket or some other crap like that, but do you really think that a group that represents approximately 2% of the country's population can strongarm the US Government?

Seriously?

We have lots of rich political donors.

And remember what the SCOTUS said: "money is free speech".

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Jews don't want all of "Palestine" because there is no such thing as "Palestine."

The Jews want their historic homeland, which includes Judea and Samaria.

The difference between the Jews and the Arabs, though, is that the Jews are willing to compromise if doing so would truly result in peace. The Arabs are not.

I'm going to disagree with you on that last sentence. The 'Arabs' have no more right to decide for the Palestinians than we have to decide for the Israelis. The problem is, I've not heard any Palestinian public figure say anything like that - ever. (Admittedly, I may have missed such. I invite anyone to share if they've seen such statements)

What point is there in having a 'Palestinian' state if it's going to just be a carbon copy of every other Arab League state?

Good question. What is the point of having an Indiana if it is a carbon copy of every other US state? Why don't we just give everyone the boot and give it to Israel?

 

[MHunterB]

In point of fact, however: those of us who are NOT Israeli citizens have no material 'right' to decide what the Israelis *should* be doing. Our opinions carry very little weight: and anyone who doesn't want 'Jewish interests' to decide US foreign policy should certainly understand that.

We give Israel billions of dollars a year, since 1981.

We routinely veto Security Council Resolutions, so as to help Israel.

We in the USA have a right to voice our opinions on the Israel/Palestine peace process.

I didn't say we couldn't express our opinons, just that they have almost no weight. If the US Government decided it wanted Israel to sign on to certain conditions in order to get that foreign aid from us, that is the government's right. As it would be the Israeli government's right to decline.

A 'gift' between friends doesn't come with obligations - at least not among *my* friends.

 

[Hyrcanus]

I didn't say we couldn't express our opinons, just that they have almost no weight. If the US Government decided it wanted Israel to sign on to certain conditions in order to get that foreign aid from us, that is the government's right. As it would be the Israeli government's right to decline.

A 'gift' between friends doesn't come with obligations - at least not among *my* friends.

You are 100% correct.

Israel is under no obligation to follow our advice or even listen to our advice.

But the USA is also under no obligation to give them billions of dollars of aid every year, give them hundreds of millions to update their Iron Dome system, constantly defend them in the UN Security Council, etc etc.

 

[Coyote]

Meanwhile right-wing Jews refuse to allow a Palestinian state in any part of the West Bank.

Looks like the extremists on both sides want all of Palestine.

What about Olmerts offer in 2008 to give 93% of the West Bank to the Palestinians, as well as East Jerusalem as their capital?? Low and behold, the Palestinians refused !

Or the previos offer to give them 97% of the West Bank, which Arafart refused.

Why do you leave out these details ?

Like he said: Looks like the extremists on both sides want all of Palestine.