Never trust anti gunners....they lie because they have an irrational fear of guns....

[2aguy]

Your solution to domestic violence is just laughable. "just don't marry those guys". No mention of removing guns from households where someone has a history of domestic violence

Well....guns aren't the problem in domestic abuse situations...the violent ex is the problem...considering the woman from here was killed with a $9.00 hatchet, no background check require, no registration required and no confiscation due to a restraining order would prevent the purchase of a hatchet or kitchen knife...right?....and the woman from here killed at Nordstroms was shot by her ex.....and then the woman from the television show was stabbed 19 times in the face and neck.....

And yet...when I posed the question to you anti gunners....what would you have done to save the girl who was shot at Nordstroms....a gun free zone, who could not get a restraining order....which is useless anyway....and the guy had been stalking her for a year, and in that year had broken her ribs and put a gun in her mouth....

Not one of you anti gunners answered the question...what would you have done to help her if the cops and the courts can't....?

well Rightwinger....what would you do...considering if the guy didn't have a gun he would use a hatchet or a knife.....?

Two out of three suicides in this country use a gun. They are just so handy and their solution is final. No mention of keeping guns away from those who are depressed.

And none of the suicides in Japan use guns at all...they use poison, they jump in front of trains and their rate of suicide is twice what ours is....

So again...guns aren't the problem with suicides....we have poison, pills, trains and bridges and buildings they can use to kill themselves with....mental health help is the solution to that....

But you guys are so irrationanally afraid of guns...all you think about is the guns......

as to gangs....Chicago needs 2,000 more police...at a minimum....they need to fix the education system....that is controlled by the education wing of the democrat party, and they need to find a way to cut down on the gang factories that are unwed teenage mothers having children who have children with no adult male/female role models that are not gang members...

Deal with that and you can leave guns alone....

 

[BlackSand]

 

[rightwinger]

Your solution to domestic violence is just laughable. "just don't marry those guys". No mention of removing guns from households where someone has a history of domestic violence

Well....guns aren't the problem in domestic abuse situations...the violent ex is the problem...considering the woman from here was killed with a $9.00 hatchet, no background check require, no registration required and no confiscation due to a restraining order would prevent the purchase of a hatchet or kitchen knife...right?....and the woman from here killed at Nordstroms was shot by her ex.....and then the woman from the television show was stabbed 19 times in the face and neck.....

And yet...when I posed the question to you anti gunners....what would you have done to save the girl who was shot at Nordstroms....a gun free zone, who could not get a restraining order....which is useless anyway....and the guy had been stalking her for a year, and in that year had broken her ribs and put a gun in her mouth....

Not one of you anti gunners answered the question...what would you have done to help her if the cops and the courts can't....?

well Rightwinger....what would you do...considering if the guy didn't have a gun he would use a hatchet or a knife.....?

Two out of three suicides in this country use a gun. They are just so handy and their solution is final. No mention of keeping guns away from those who are depressed.

And none of the suicides in Japan use guns at all...they use poison, they jump in front of trains and their rate of suicide is twice what ours is....

So again...guns aren't the problem with suicides....we have poison, pills, trains and bridges and buildings they can use to kill themselves with....mental health help is the solution to that....

But you guys are so irrationanally afraid of guns...all you think about is the guns......

as to gangs....Chicago needs 2,000 more police...at a minimum....they need to fix the education system....that is controlled by the education wing of the democrat party, and they need to find a way to cut down on the gang factories that are unwed teenage mothers having children who have children with no adult male/female role models that are not gang members...

Deal with that and you can leave guns alone....

Same old......until you can stop EVERY possible way of killing someone, you are not allowed to restrict access to the weapon of choice in two out of three killings

Anyone found guilty of domestic violence should lose access to guns forever. Small penalty for someone who enjoys beating women

 

[2aguy]

Anyone found guilty of domestic violence should lose access to guns forever. Small penalty for someone who enjoys beating women

Yes...instead of teaching these women to use guns to actually save their own lives....we will simply force the killers to use hatchets, knives, gasoline, fists, and choking techniques.....they will still be dead....but at least they won't have been killed with guns....

Nice solution....

Still...no answer as to how you would have saved the girl at Nordstroms.......

 

[rightwinger]

Anyone found guilty of domestic violence should lose access to guns forever. Small penalty for someone who enjoys beating women

Yes...instead of teaching these women to use guns to actually save their own lives....we will simply force the killers to use hatchets, knives, gasoline, fists, and choking techniques.....they will still be dead....but at least they won't have been killed with guns....

Nice solution....

Still...no answer as to how you would have saved the girl at Nordstroms.......

Unfortunately, we are a gun culture

When access to guns is denied we do not revert to hatchets, knives or gasoline....we generally use fists

The survival rate for fists is much higher

Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence Gun Law Information Experts

Guns increase the probability of death in incidents of domestic violence.1

Firearms were used to kill more than two-thirds of spouse and ex-spouse homicide victims between 1990 and 2005.2

Domestic violence assaults involving a firearm are 12 times more likely to result in death than those involving other weapons or bodily force.3

Abused women are five times more likely to be killed by their abuser if the abuser owns a firearm.4

 

[JoeB131]

Joe....clinton had the justice dept. do a study in 1995......neither clinton or the justice dept. are pro gun or part of the gun lobby....they found, much to their embarrassment, that their study showed 1.5 million defensive gun uses....

Well, no, they didn't.

Again, the NCVS says 65,000 a year.

 

[JoeB131]

Yes...instead of teaching these women to use guns to actually save their own lives....we will simply force the killers to use hatchets, knives, gasoline, fists, and choking techniques.....they will still be dead....but at least they won't have been killed with guns....

Given how many women are killed with the guns they bought for protection, that's probably a good thing.

It's actually kind of hard to kill someone with a knife.

 

[JoeB131]

Get control of gangs in the inner cities and you take care of 80% of all gun murders....

That's the figure you guys keep throwing out there, but most murder victims are killed by people they know.

 

[JoeB131]

Suicides.....the Japanese have almost complete gun control and they have a higher suicide rate than we do....dittos Russai, China, and many other countries....we could ask them and do the opposite....

Japan has a culture were suicide is considered honorable to disgrace. It's one of those little dishonest things you guys like to pull to try to distract from the fact that we have 19,000 gun suicides every year, representing 55% of suicides.

 

[JoeB131]

The SPAMBOT is you, asshat. You've been on this Board for half as long as any of us and have more than twice the amount of posts. As I said, you're an unethical POS, and a liar and no company would have you.

I think you miss why I call that guy spambot.

I call him that because he keeps posting the same things, to the point even people who agree with him largely ignore him.

 

[JoeB131]

but here's the real reason why Kleck is bullshit.

It's been 20 years, and no one has reproduced his results.

Less Guns Less Crime- Debunking the Self-Defense Myth Armed With Reason

In 2010, according to the most recent data on justifiable homicides from the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) program, there were 230 justifiable homicides involving a private citizen using a firearm in self-defense during either an attempted or a completed crime. In the same year, there were 8,275 firearm homicides. This means that, for every one justifiable firearm homicide, there were 36 criminal homicides. Contrary to the gun lobby’s claim that, between 2007 and 2011, guns were used 12.5 million times in self-defense, the most reliable data on this question clearly show that firearms were used only 338,700 times in self-defense, and this includes off-duty police. Clearly, then, despite living in a country with 300 million guns, the use of firearms in self-defense appears to be an exceedingly rare phenomenon.

 

[westwall]

The SPAMBOT is you, asshat. You've been on this Board for half as long as any of us and have more than twice the amount of posts. As I said, you're an unethical POS, and a liar and no company would have you.

I think you miss why I call that guy spambot.

I call him that because he keeps posting the same things, to the point even people who agree with him largely ignore him.

You mean like you do? You are nothing but a SPAM BOT and you post more than three of us COMBINED. Add to that the gross intellectual dishonesty you exhibit every single day and it becomes quite clear that it is you who are the SPAMBOT.

 

[westwall]

Yes...instead of teaching these women to use guns to actually save their own lives....we will simply force the killers to use hatchets, knives, gasoline, fists, and choking techniques.....they will still be dead....but at least they won't have been killed with guns....

Given how many women are killed with the guns they bought for protection, that's probably a good thing.

It's actually kind of hard to kill someone with a knife.

Utter bullshit. I think I finally figured out your mental disconnect. In your twisted world where guns only exist to kill people, you simply can't conceive of a world where people don't just wantonly kill people. Guns are used to prevent crimes ever single day. The VAST majority of the time they are not fired. They are merely brandished and that's enough. Amazingly enough, bad guys don't like getting shot.

They love to prey on defenseless people though, of that there is no doubt. But when the intended target is shown to be prepared and armed, well all of a sudden they lose interest in that target and move on to the next.

According to your bullshit view of the planet those uses don't count. "Guns are only meant to kill" is your mantra, well here you go SPAMBOT. No, they aren't. They are tools and the overwhelming majority of the time they are used, they are never fired.

Now go wrap your tiny little head around that fact.

 

[westwall]

but here's the real reason why Kleck is bullshit.

It's been 20 years, and no one has reproduced his results.

Less Guns Less Crime- Debunking the Self-Defense Myth Armed With Reason

In 2010, according to the most recent data on justifiable homicides from the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) program, there were 230 justifiable homicides involving a private citizen using a firearm in self-defense during either an attempted or a completed crime. In the same year, there were 8,275 firearm homicides. This means that, for every one justifiable firearm homicide, there were 36 criminal homicides. Contrary to the gun lobby’s claim that, between 2007 and 2011, guns were used 12.5 million times in self-defense, the most reliable data on this question clearly show that firearms were used only 338,700 times in self-defense, and this includes off-duty police. Clearly, then, despite living in a country with 300 million guns, the use of firearms in self-defense appears to be an exceedingly rare phenomenon.

No, your bullshit world only allows defensive uses where the gun is fired because that is your twisted, fucked up logic. You simply can't conceive of a weapon being used, without it being fired. The snake must FEED! You can't draw the sword without it blooding something, and all that other mythological horse shit.

Face it Joe, you're just flat assed wrong.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

The ones like Joe, that call for an outright ban, do indeed do have a completely irrational fear of guns.

 

[westwall]

The ones like Joe, that call for an outright ban, do indeed do have a completely irrational fear of guns.

No, most of them just want the government to have guns. That way they can have a nice little police state. You look at the majority of these gun grabbers and it truly is a desire of theirs to live in a totalitarian regime. These people are truly screwed up in the head.

 

[JoeB131]

You mean like you do? You are nothing but a SPAM BOT and you post more than three of us COMBINED. Add to that the gross intellectual dishonesty you exhibit every single day and it becomes quite clear that it is you who are the SPAMBOT.

No, guy, I actually make arguments and counter what you clowns say. Which isn't hard, because you post stuff like Kleck and Lott even after they've been pretty seriously debunked.

 

[JoeB131]

No, your bullshit world only allows defensive uses where the gun is fired because that is your twisted, fucked up logic. You simply can't conceive of a weapon being used, without it being fired. The snake must FEED! You can't draw the sword without it blooding something, and all that other mythological horse shit.

Face it Joe, you're just flat assed wrong.

Do I think the gun needs to be fired every time? No.

Do I think the gun has to be fired a decent percent of the time? Yes.

It's really kind of simple math. if you have 2.5 million DGU's a year and only 200 Justifiable Homicides, that means that only one out of 12500 DGU's actually requires deadly force to be used. I just don't find that very probable. Especially not when you have gun nutters who simply cream their jeans at the thought of shooting a bad guy. and that happy day comes, and they don't do it? At least not 12,499 times out of 12,500.

Probability says that it should happen a lot more often that that.

 

[JoeB131]

Utter bullshit. I think I finally figured out your mental disconnect. In your twisted world where guns only exist to kill people, you simply can't conceive of a world where people don't just wantonly kill people. Guns are used to prevent crimes ever single day. The VAST majority of the time they are not fired. They are merely brandished and that's enough. Amazingly enough, bad guys don't like getting shot.

The vast majority being, 12,499 times out of 12,500 incidents. That would mean gun owners wouldn't kill 99.992% of the time. Frankly, that would make you guys more highly disciplined than police or soldiers.

Or more logically, Kleck did a flawed study of only 5000 people and used a very low criteria that included rednecks shooting possums as a DGU.

They love to prey on defenseless people though, of that there is no doubt. But when the intended target is shown to be prepared and armed, well all of a sudden they lose interest in that target and move on to the next.

Yeah, you see, here's the thing. We aren't talking about Professor Moriarty here. We are talking about a common street thug who usually is just looking for a crime of opportunity. I simply don't see a lot of those guys being deterred that easily, especially when their crimes are often spurred by drugs or alcohol. I honestly don't see a crackhead being that easily deterred.

According to your bullshit view of the planet those uses don't count. "Guns are only meant to kill" is your mantra, well here you go SPAMBOT. No, they aren't. They are tools and the overwhelming majority of the time they are used, they are never fired.

I just find it hard to believe that most gun owners, you know, 99.99% of them if you believe your own numbers, are so cool in a clutch that they would merely play a game of chicken with a obviously dangerous criminal.

Simple put, if we have 2.5 million DGU's a year, we should have a lot more dead bodies.

Heck, even using the more generous NCVS figure of 65,000 DGU's a year, only 1 out of 325 crime victims uses lethal force. That's still a number that has 99.7% of gun users showing retraint.

 

[suplex3000]

I love gunmen. These people are sooooo self-confident. Sometimes they look like Clint Eastwood or Terminator.
In my opinion policemen should do their best and then people will feel safety.