New Witness...TRAYVON was beating Zimmerman up!

[uptownlivin90]

The details will all come out soon & this situation will not look so bad.

Death is always pretty bad.

Well pieces are falling into place.

- Martin was a long time strong athlete.
- Just kicked out of school for drugs.
- Parent pissed & sent him to fiance's house for discipline.
- Separated from his friends.
- Separated from his girl friend.
- Maybe he did drugs while he was out getting tea & skittles.
- Likely very pissed off at himself & the world.

Zimmerman may have been up against an unreasonable madman.

Looking at Martins photos the recent one shows drooping eyelids consistent with drug use. I am sure the justice is going to work in this case.

- Martin was a long time strong athlete.

To me that makes the case sadder.

- Just kicked out of school for drugs.

He was suspended. He was not expelled.

- Parent pissed & sent him to fiance's house for discipline.

He was visiting family with his father.

- Separated from his friends.

Temporarily.

- Separated from his girl friend.

Temporarily.

- Maybe he did drugs while he was out getting tea & skittles.

By himself? Doubtful.

- Likely very pissed off at himself & the world.

We can't speculate on that.

 

[Katzndogz]

Should Zimmerman be punished even if he is not guilty of murder? That's what this is coming down to. Should there be a trial in which is is able to produce evidence in his defense?

Suppose the evidence shows he's not guilty or it was justified?

 

[Amelia]

Should Zimmerman be punished even if he is not guilty of murder? That's what this is coming down to. Should there be a trial in which is is able to produce evidence in his defense?

Suppose the evidence shows he's not guilty or it was justified?

I bet the evidence will show that he was truly in self-defense mode at the precise time that he shot Trayvon.

But just like with free speech - you have the right to free speech but that doesn't mean you have the right to consequence-less speech.

Zimmerman had the right to carry a gun and to go against common sense, against the advice of the 911 operator and against established neighborhood watch principles ... but that doesn't mean he has the right to do so without consequence.

He is now open for a lifetime of consequences for his need to carry a gun and play cop. He brought that upon himself.

 

[FuelRod]

I don't think deadly force is justifiable if the other person is unarmed (without some kind of weapon.)
Florida law apparently disagrees with this, otherwise I think a manslaughter charge would be in order.

 

[koshergrl]

And you have absolutely no way to know that.

If he walked away, and was followed, and hit from behind and held down and beaten, that is the situation a gun is for.

 

[koshergrl]

I don't think deadly force is justifiable if the other person is unarmed (without some kind of weapon.)
Florida law apparently disagrees with this, otherwise I think a manslaughter charge would be in order.

Tell that to the people who are brutalized by unarmed thugs during car jackings, dv incidents, and other fun situations where people are killed by a rock, or by choking, or via curb stomping, or well aimed kicks.

 

[FuelRod]

This is a police matter.
I don't see that self-defense needs a tag along law like this "stand your ground" however.

 

[bayoubill]

Good. That is true, both had that right, if Martin was in fear of death or great bodily harm, that is. And, we won't know that. We do know that he wasn't liking being followed and probably was scared/concerned about that, though.

Unfortunately, the law is bad and a kid is dead.

The law is good if the aggressor had a weapon. It means that if someone pulls a gun on you, you do not have to first retreat giving them a chance to shoot you before taking him out.

What is a weapon? A gun is a weapon. A knife is a weapon. How about a rock, a stapler, a tire iron, a lamp, a length of rope, piano wire.

Anything can be a weapon.

if I wanted to, I could kill you with a twelve-ounce can of iced tea...

but I gotta admit, I don't have the skill to do it with a bag of skittles...

 

[High_Gravity]

Various witnesses, and I don't see ballistics reported anywhere. The Grand Jury will I believe. Who know which one of the two was attacked, and who fought back, before the killing?

I don't think there will be a ballistics report. It doesn't look like one is necessary. A ballistics report would match the bullet with the gun. Zimmerman said I shot him and here is the gun. There's no argument that the bullet really came from the grassy knoll.

Some evidence will show how far away from the shooter Martin was; another question is whether the victims' prints are on the gun.

Whether or not Martins fingerprins are on the gun is irrelevant because Martin was the one who attacked Zimmerman right?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I don't think there will be a ballistics report. It doesn't look like one is necessary. A ballistics report would match the bullet with the gun. Zimmerman said I shot him and here is the gun. There's no argument that the bullet really came from the grassy knoll.

Some evidence will show how far away from the shooter Martin was; another question is whether the victims' prints are on the gun.

Whether or not Martins fingerprins are on the gun is irrelevant because Martin was the one who attacked Zimmerman right?

Zimmerman was walking away, and in fact if Trayvon went for Zimmerman's gun that in it self is a whole new can of worms.

 

[Peach]

I don't think there will be a ballistics report. It doesn't look like one is necessary. A ballistics report would match the bullet with the gun. Zimmerman said I shot him and here is the gun. There's no argument that the bullet really came from the grassy knoll.

Some evidence will show how far away from the shooter Martin was; another question is whether the victims' prints are on the gun.

But.............that's not ballistics. You know that, right?

The bullet that killed Martin came from Zimmerman's gun. That is not in dispute.

The weapon is already in evidence and marked "TS-1". Evidence is analyzed for prints, but that is not "ballistics".

The bullet that killed Martin was retrieved from his body, but that is done by the medical examiner. That is not a 'ballistics' analysis. Angle of entry is also done by a medical examiner. That's not "ballistics".

Thank you Si, your posts have reasonable.

 

[violet]

TRAYVON WAS STANDING HIS GROUND

When he was confronted by someone he thought was there to do him harm, he lashed out in defense of his life. Zimmerman who initiated this confrontation cannot use self defense when he was getting his butt kick by a kid drew his gun and shot this kid he was stalking and confronted. Zimmerman was the perpetrator of his incident, not Trayvon who was minding his business on his way home and did not owe Zimmerman who did not identify himself as a Neighborhood Watchman, an explanation why he was where he was.

Zimmerman referring to Trayvon as a “fucking coon” clearly make this a hate crime and murder and not self defense.

You cannot pick a fight with some one, kill them and call it self defense when you are getting your butt kicked.

Not exactly what I heard on the news. Yes Zimmerman was following Trayvon however I haven't heard any "fucking Coon" reference reported. Trayvon should have called the police on Zimmerman if he felt endangered as zimmerman had not touched him.

I heard Zimmerman stopped following Trayvon and was on his way to meet up with police when Trayvon came up on him and attacked Zimmerman. Up until this point no contact between the two had occurred. If this is true then it's not a hate crime cause even if Zimmerman had called him a "fucking coon" Zimmerman was walking away and was not the aggressor, Trayvon was. Do I think Zimmerman should have used a gun in a fist fight,no, but if he was getting beat up he was losing the fight and must have felt he needed too. That 's the chance you take when you get into a fight. We weren't there so it's hard to say. Zimmerman did have a broken nose and was bleeding from the head.

Basically we need to let the police do thier job and handle it. You may not like the outcome but that doesn't mean the decision not to arrest Zimmerman was wrong or unjustified. Just because this was a "white latino" and a black doesn't mean race played a part in this or it was a hate crime. It's sad that the young man is dead but lets hear both sides before we draw conclusions. Also I saw the Black Panters spewing BS and if anything happens to Zimmerman The Black Panthers and their followers should be charged with a hate crime.

 

[Peach]

The law says they can both stand their ground. Neither had the right to attack the other.[/QUOTE]Good. That is true, both had that right, if Martin was in fear of death or great bodily harm, that is. And, we won't know that. We do know that he wasn't liking being followed and probably was scared/concerned about that, though.

Unfortunately, the law is bad and a kid is dead.[/QUOTE]

This sums up the horrible situation well.

 

[High_Gravity]

TRAYVON WAS STANDING HIS GROUND

When he was confronted by someone he thought was there to do him harm, he lashed out in defense of his life. Zimmerman who initiated this confrontation cannot use self defense when he was getting his butt kick by a kid drew his gun and shot this kid he was stalking and confronted. Zimmerman was the perpetrator of his incident, not Trayvon who was minding his business on his way home and did not owe Zimmerman who did not identify himself as a Neighborhood Watchman, an explanation why he was where he was.

Zimmerman referring to Trayvon as a “fucking coon” clearly make this a hate crime and murder and not self defense.

You cannot pick a fight with some one, kill them and call it self defense when you are getting your butt kicked.

Not exactly what I heard on the news. Yes Zimmerman was following Trayvon however I haven't heard any "fucking Coon" reference reported. Trayvon should have called the police on Zimmerman if he felt endangered as zimmerman had not touched him.

I heard Zimmerman stopped following Trayvon and was on his way to meet up with police when Trayvon came up on him and attacked Zimmerman. Up until this point no contact between the two had occurred. If this is true then it's not a hate crime and Zimmerman was not the aggressor, Tryavon was. Do I think Zimmerman should have used a gun in a fist fight,no, but if he was getting beat up he was losing the fight and must have felt he needed too. That 's the chance you take when you get into a fight. We weren't there so it's hard to say. Zimmerman did have a broken nose and was bleeding from the head.

Basically we need to let the police do thier job and handle it. You may not like the outcome but that doesn't mean the decision not to arrest Zimmerman was wrong or unjustified. Just because this was a "white latino" and a black doesn't mean race played a part in this or it was a hate crime. It's sad that the young man is dead but lets hear both sides before we draw conclusions. Also I saw the Black Panters spewing BS and if anything happens to Zimmerman The Black Panthers and their followers should be charged with a hate crime.

Why? the Panthers are not the only one who want Zimmermans head, so for you its ok to let Zimmerman go because of lack of evidence but the Panthers should just automatically be charged for hate crimes if something happens to Zimmerman and theres no proof? thats not fair either.

 

[Katzndogz]

I don't think there will be a ballistics report. It doesn't look like one is necessary. A ballistics report would match the bullet with the gun. Zimmerman said I shot him and here is the gun. There's no argument that the bullet really came from the grassy knoll.

Some evidence will show how far away from the shooter Martin was; another question is whether the victims' prints are on the gun.

Whether or not Martins fingerprins are on the gun is irrelevant because Martin was the one who attacked Zimmerman right?

It might have a bearing on intent. If Martin was shot over a struggle for the gun, his death was accidental. Not even manslaughter.

 

[High_Gravity]

Some evidence will show how far away from the shooter Martin was; another question is whether the victims' prints are on the gun.

Whether or not Martins fingerprins are on the gun is irrelevant because Martin was the one who attacked Zimmerman right?

It might have a bearing on intent. If Martin was shot over a struggle for the gun, his death was accidental. Not even manslaughter.

Doesn't really matter, Zimmermans going to be free of all charges anyways, if they even bring any.

 

[Rocko]

I don't think there will be a ballistics report. It doesn't look like one is necessary. A ballistics report would match the bullet with the gun. Zimmerman said I shot him and here is the gun. There's no argument that the bullet really came from the grassy knoll.

Some evidence will show how far away from the shooter Martin was; another question is whether the victims' prints are on the gun.

Whether or not Martins fingerprins are on the gun is irrelevant because Martin was the one who attacked Zimmerman right?

I haven't come to that conclusion based on what I've heard and read. Do you have a link?

 

[Peach]

Some evidence will show how far away from the shooter Martin was; another question is whether the victims' prints are on the gun.

Whether or not Martins fingerprins are on the gun is irrelevant because Martin was the one who attacked Zimmerman right?

Zimmerman was walking away, and in fact if Trayvon went for Zimmerman's gun that in it self is a whole new can of worms.

Yes, IF the victim went for the killer's gun, the picture may change. What I consider crucial is how far away from the killer was the victim when he was shot?

 

[High_Gravity]

Some evidence will show how far away from the shooter Martin was; another question is whether the victims' prints are on the gun.

Whether or not Martins fingerprins are on the gun is irrelevant because Martin was the one who attacked Zimmerman right?

I haven't come to that conclusion based on what I've heard and read. Do you have a link?

I have to leave in a few minutes but I was briefed by several members on this board that Trayvon was a no good punk thug who initiated the confrontation with Zimmerman and attacked him, going for his gun, I'm running on their word with this.

 

[High_Gravity]

Whether or not Martins fingerprins are on the gun is irrelevant because Martin was the one who attacked Zimmerman right?

Zimmerman was walking away, and in fact if Trayvon went for Zimmerman's gun that in it self is a whole new can of worms.

Yes, IF the victim went for the killer's gun, the picture may change. What I consider crucial is how far away from the killer was the victim when he was shot?

Does any of this really matter? this is all water cooler talk at this point.