No Cake for You

[MaxGrit]

The bakers, AS CHRISTIANS, should have sold the gay couple their cake, and done so graciously...THAT was their duty and this is what Christ taught.... over and over and over again....it was the outcasts, the sinners that Jesus spent His time with... The very people the Pharisees, the supposed religious rejected...the tax collector sinners, the adulterous, the Samaritans etc....and through His love and graciousness, He won them over....

No. They believe it's a sin to participate in a gay wedding, which makes it is a sin for them.

Romans 14

"12 So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.

14 I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean.

22 The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who has no reason to pass judgment on himself for what he approves.

23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin."

I disagree that this passage means what you seem to think it does. The lesson in these passages is quite the OPPOSITE of what you contend....

and Baking a cake for a wedding RECEPTION is NOT participating or agreeing with this wedding of the gay couple.... this Bakery couple can still hold their beliefs that marriage is between a man and a woman....it would not be a sin for them to bake a cake.....

When the whore was washing Christ's feet in front of the Pharisees and they complained that a righteous man would never associate with a woman like that....or when they complained about Jesus associating himself with prostitutes and tax collectors for the Roman government, or when his followers saw him speaking to the Samaritan woman at the well....Do you think the holier than thou Pharisees were correct in their assumption that Jesus was not a righteous man because of who he associated Himself with, or because of the outcasts that He showed Love and grace towards?

The passage speaks for itself as to its meaning. "Blessed is the one who has no reason to pass judgment on himself for what he approves. But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin."

 

[TemplarKormac]

The bakers, AS CHRISTIANS, should have sold the gay couple their cake, and done so graciously...THAT was their duty and this is what Christ taught.... over and over and over again....it was the outcasts, the sinners that Jesus spent His time with... The very people the Pharisees, the supposed religious rejected...the tax collector sinners, the adulterous, the Samaritans etc....and through His love and graciousness, He won them over....

Colossians 4:5-6, Proper conduct towards unbelievers
by Matt Slick
"Be wise in the way you act toward outsiders; make the most of every opportunity. 6Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone," Col. 4:5-6(NIV)

How do you behave with and toward unbelievers? Do you like them? Do you hate them? Do you tolerate them? Are you concerned about their salvation? Do you act like them when you aren't in Christian company? Do you snub them if they aren't holy? Some Christians think that being kind to unbelievers is like throwing pearls before swine. Then there are Christians who stand on street corners, in malls, and in front of abortion clinics to witness to unbelievers. Others just don't care one way or another. Where do you fit in? Do you share your faith using hugs or headlocks? Honey or a hammer? Or do you even share your faith at all?

The Word of God is very specific about how you as a Christian are to conduct yourself toward the non-Christian. Turn with me to Col. 4:5-6 and we will read together what God wants you, as a Christian, to do.

The literal translation of Col. 4:5-6 is

In wisdom, walk toward the ones outside, redeeming the time. Let your word be always in grace, having been seasoned with salt, to know how it is necessary for each one of you to answer.

1. God wants you to conduct yourselves with wisdom toward unbelievers, v. 5
   1. First of all, before anything else is said, we need to focus on something very important: the cross of Christ.
      1. It is because of the cross and our redemption found there that we are able to seek to be wise and good towards unbelievers.
      2. The sacrifice of Christ has cleansed us from our sins, forgiven us our trespasses, and enabled us to be gracious and kind by changing us. As we were once against God in our unbelief, God was gracious and kind to us. Because of Jesus we are to be kind to others.
   2. Literally the Greek says to "walk in wisdom toward outsiders."
      1. To the Jew every non-Jew was an outsider. To the Christian, every non Christian is an outsider; that is, outside the church. Outside of a relationship with the Lord Jesus.
      2. The context of the church: "In the days of the early church believers were often slandered by these outsiders. Christians were called atheists because they served no visible gods, unpatriotic because they did not burn incense before the image of the emperor, and immoral because, of necessity, they would often meet behind locked doors."
      3. Today there is still an attack on the church. Christians are called bigots because they condemn homosexuality, intolerant because they oppose abortion, religious extremists because they condemn sin, and narrow-minded because they believe there is one "one faith, one Lord, and one baptism" (Eph. 4:5).
      4. Yet, in spite of these attacks we are to remain humble, loving, caring, kind, and gentle. If we are not, if we do not show love and forbearance in the face of cruelty, insult, intolerance, and ridicule, then you are not showing the world that we know Jesus?
   3. That is why it is so important to have wise conduct before unbelievers.
      1. One reason is so you aren't made a fool.
      2. The reputation of the gospel depends on you.
      3. The world judges Christianity by what it sees in you.
         1. 1. Are you representing it well with kindness, holiness, consistent reverence to the Lord?
      4. Also, unfortunately, the world judges Christianity by what it sees on television where lies about Christians and Christianity are broadcast as the pagans version of the "gospel truth." All the more reason to live holy lives.
         1. 1. I remember years ago watching Miami vice. It opened with two Christians preaching. There was this bad guy who tripped and fell at the feet of two "Christians" who had Bibles and had been preaching. When the bad guy fell at their feet, the Christians started hitting him with their Bibles, kicking him, and yelling mean things at him.
            2. On another show, "Renegade" there was coffee house scene where a Christian couple behaved rudely, bigoted, cowardly, and stupid.
      5. Nevertheless, in spite of the insults, you are to be wise.
   4. God wants your conduct to be with wisdom. This conduct is your manner of behavior. This means you are to be
      1. sympathetic (this could be in counseling, listening, etc.)
      2. compassionate and humble (1 Pet. 3:8).
         1. "To sum up, let all be harmonious, sympathetic, brotherly, kindhearted, and humble in spirit;"
      3. loving
         1. "Don't repay evil for evil, or insult with insult, but with blessing repay the evil cast at you" (1 Pet. 3:9).
      4. patient - you are to be considerate and lonsuffering with the unbeliever.
      5. know when not to speak
         1. That is often one of the hardest things to do. It is so often the best thing to simply listen to a person and wait for a better opportunity.
      6. If your conduct is indeed with wisdom, then the name of Christ will not be maligned.
         1. The unbeliever will have no basis to mock Christ, His church, or His people.
         2. And, he may be brought into the fold of Christ.
2. God wants you to make the most of the opportunity with unbelievers, v. 5
   1. Literally the Greek says "redeeming the time," or "buying up the opportunity." The sense then would be "Do not just sit there and wait for opportunity to fall into your lap, but go after it. Yes, buy it."
   2. There is definitely a time to be aggressive in your relationship with an unbeliever.
   3. I would hope that as Christians you would not become complacent about evangelism. God uses the Gospel to call His people out of the world.
   4. The time is short and the world is evil: Ephesians 5:15-17 says, "Be very careful, then, how you live -- not as unwise but as wise, 16making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. 17Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is."
3. God wants you to let your speech to always be gracious with unbelievers, v. 6
   1. Paul is asking the Colossians to be careful with their tongues.
      1. Careful when they speak in public and private, no gossip.
      2. Careful when they speak to an equal or someone in power, no slander.
      3. Careful when they speak to the poor and the rich, no favoritism.
      4. Careful not only when speaking of the gospel but also when speaking of the weather, the economy, politicians, the authorities.
         1. In all your conversation be good.
   2. Gracious: God wants you to be careful, gracious, kind in your speech.
      1. Grace is getting what you do not deserve. Give them kindness, love, compassion, and patience.
   3. And note the word "always."
      1. In all situations at all times.
         1. playing a sport, watching a movie, driving, shopping, business, in church, out of church, at work....
   4. Being gracious means to be kind, gentle, positive, helpful, and insightful.
   5. A further description of this kind of gracious speech is: seasoned with salt, v. 6.
      1. Those whom the Lord calls "the salt of the earth" (Matt. 5:13) must not be tasteless.
      2. I work at a place where all the people around me are unbelievers. Their conversations are often vile, crass, filled with not so clean jokes. All to get that sense of belonging and being "in" with the rest of the group..
      3. Don't be like the ungodly around you.
      4. Salt prevents corruption.
         1. Elsewhere Paul said, "Do not let any corrupt talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen" (Eph. 4:29).
4. God wants you to know how to answer everyone, v. 6.
   1. Speak the right word and the right time to the right person.
      1. 1 Pet. 3:15 says, "But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect."
   2. Part of having answers means being wise.
      1. Proverbs, as well as the rest of Scripture, is the only source of true wisdom. With wisdom you will be properly be able to answer in times of counseling and heartache, joy and sorrow, and in times when morality is an issue.
   3. Part of having answers means knowing doctrine.
      1. The Catechisms are excellent teachers of doctrine.
      2. Know the doctrine of the Trinity, the deity of Christ and of the Holy Spirit, the gospel message, the resurrection, the return of Christ, and the rest of what the Bible teaches.
   4. Part of having answers means studying difficult issues.
      1. Study evolution, cults, and other religions.
      2. You don't have to master them, just be familiar with them.
5. And don't forget, in your wisdom and grace toward them, pray for them.
   1. They need to be granted the faith that God gives (John 6:28ff)
   2. They need to be granted the repentance that God gives (2 Tim. 2:25).
   3. They need to be granted the belief that God gives (Phil. 1:29).
   4. You can make a difference in your prayers (James 5:16).
      1. A...The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much."

Conclusion

So what difference do these verses make in your lives? Plenty. Your conduct and speech before an unbeliever is vitally important. Your conduct should be with wisdom, your speech with grace.

I know a Christian who years ago worked with an unbeliever. For two years, this Christian answered the unbelievers questions; he was gentle and kind in his conduct in all situations and always tried to point his friend to Christ. He sought to be wise and gracious. Today that unbeliever has become a pastor. The Lord used that Christian, his wise conduct, his gracious speech, to help bring another into His kingdom. To Jesus be the glory. Amen.

Funny, you quote the bible, but do nothing it says. Nothing.

 

[TemplarKormac]

They were asked to bring the cake to the wedding these two were having.

That is false.

The real sequence of events is listed in the ruling. There cake tasting had never gotten to any discussion of actually baking the cake (i.e. design), there was no offer of baking the cake and having the complainants pick it up, there was no offer to bake the cake but not deliver it. As soon as the Klein's found out that the cake was for two brides, they refused service.

Making up things in a debate that can be checked isn't a way to "win" a debate.

Oh, BTW - on page for it notes that the material facts are undisputed by both parties - something required as part of the parties seeking a summary judgement.

BOLI-sweetcakes.pdf

>>>>

I would you suggest you read the entire thing before impulsively posting it up. I study case briefs as a hobby.

<<SNIP>>

As I said you were wrong, they never got to the point of discussion delivery of a cake which is what you said.

They never go to order a cake, therefore they didn't "ask that it be delivered". The Kleins never offered a bake and pick up option.

Do not lecture me, do not talk down to me. I have all the facts in hand. I don't debate just to see my own typed words, I debate to win on actual concrete facts.

Actually I feel free to talk down to you when you make shit up.


>>>>

But they knew the natural progression of event had it gotten that far. "I didn't want to be a part of her wedding because it was wrong."

You missed the entire point by a thousand light years, and also I see it was too complicated for you to understand. Unless you're in the cake making business, you know jack, my friend.

 

[JoeB131]

Funny, you quote the bible, but do nothing it says. Nothing.

As opposed to you Right-Wingers, who treat the Bible like a Software Agreement. You hit "I agree" and never bother to read it.

 

[NYcarbineer]

They were asked to bring the cake to the wedding these two were having.

That is false.

The real sequence of events is listed in the ruling. There cake tasting had never gotten to any discussion of actually baking the cake (i.e. design), there was no offer of baking the cake and having the complainants pick it up, there was no offer to bake the cake but not deliver it. As soon as the Klein's found out that the cake was for two brides, they refused service.

Making up things in a debate that can be checked isn't a way to "win" a debate.

Oh, BTW - on page for it notes that the material facts are undisputed by both parties - something required as part of the parties seeking a summary judgement.

BOLI-sweetcakes.pdf

>>>>

I would you suggest you read the entire thing before impulsively posting it up. I study case briefs as a hobby.

<<SNIP>>

As I said you were wrong, they never got to the point of discussion delivery of a cake which is what you said.

They never go to order a cake, therefore they didn't "ask that it be delivered". The Kleins never offered a bake and pick up option.

Do not lecture me, do not talk down to me. I have all the facts in hand. I don't debate just to see my own typed words, I debate to win on actual concrete facts.

Actually I feel free to talk down to you when you make shit up.


>>>>

But they knew the natural progression of event had it gotten that far. "I didn't want to be a part of her wedding because it was wrong."

You missed the entire point by a thousand light years, and also I see it was too complicated for you to understand. Unless you're in the cake making business, you know jack, my friend.

They refused to bake the cake outright. Period. It had nothing to do with 'being a part of the wedding'. That is also a red herring because that defense doesn't satisfy the anti-discrimination law.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The bakers, AS CHRISTIANS, should have sold the gay couple their cake, and done so graciously...THAT was their duty and this is what Christ taught.... over and over and over again....it was the outcasts, the sinners that Jesus spent His time with... The very people the Pharisees, the supposed religious rejected...the tax collector sinners, the adulterous, the Samaritans etc....and through His love and graciousness, He won them over....

No. They believe it's a sin to participate in a gay wedding, which makes it is a sin for them.

Romans 14

"12 So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.

14 I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean.

22 The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who has no reason to pass judgment on himself for what he approves.

23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin."

Yeah, well, these people believe a certain other form of marriage is a sin:

Pike church takes stand against interracial couples

Pike church takes stand against interracial couples Faith Values Kentucky.com

Make the argument that the business owner/operator members of this congregation should be able to discriminate against interracial couples because its their religious belief.

Let's hear it.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I am still waiting for someone to present a cogent argument as to how baking a cake somehow is forcing the baker to betray his faith.

It doesn't. Baking the cake wasn't the problem. They were asked to bring the cake to the wedding these two were having. Personally, I would have made the cake and said, "Get someone else to take it to your wedding, you got what you paid for."

They would have fulfilled their end by making the cake, and fulfilled their religious convictions by not taking it to the wedding.

And I will posit this:

If you ask a devout Christian to betray his beliefs, he will not. If you ask a gay person to stop being gay, they will not. Understand now?

anyone who knows anything about wedding cakes knows the delivery is to the reception hall well in advance of the event. And most wedding cakes are disassembled for transport and most bakers do set them up for their customers

I know this because my mother used to bake cakes and I delivered and set up many wedding cakes with her.

So it is a stretch to say walking into an empty reception hall to delver a cake is a betrayal of faith

 

[NYcarbineer]

Oh, btw, the Kleins have shut down their store because business has plummeted.

At least you 'free market' loving conservatives can appreciate that the market is working in this case.

 

[Seawytch]

I am still waiting for someone to present a cogent argument as to how baking a cake somehow is forcing the baker to betray his faith.

It doesn't. Baking the cake wasn't the problem. They were asked to bring the cake to the wedding these two were having. Personally, I would have made the cake and said, "Get someone else to take it to your wedding, you got what you paid for."

They would have fulfilled their end by making the cake, and fulfilled their religious convictions by not taking it to the wedding.

And I will posit this:

If you ask a devout Christian to betray his beliefs, he will not. If you ask a gay person to stop being gay, they will not. Understand now?

anyone who knows anything about wedding cakes knows the delivery is to the reception hall well in advance of the event. And most wedding cakes are disassembled for transport and most bakers do set them up for their customers

I know this because my mother used to bake cakes and I delivered and set up many wedding cakes with her.

So it is a stretch to say walking into an empty reception hall to delver a cake is a betrayal of faith

Of course it's a stretch because it's not about faith, it's about not liking gays and wanting to discriminate against them. Jesus spoke against divorce, not against gays and yet every single one of these bakers would bake a wedding cake for a divorced and remarrying couple.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I am still waiting for someone to present a cogent argument as to how baking a cake somehow is forcing the baker to betray his faith.

It doesn't. Baking the cake wasn't the problem. They were asked to bring the cake to the wedding these two were having. Personally, I would have made the cake and said, "Get someone else to take it to your wedding, you got what you paid for."

They would have fulfilled their end by making the cake, and fulfilled their religious convictions by not taking it to the wedding.

And I will posit this:

If you ask a devout Christian to betray his beliefs, he will not. If you ask a gay person to stop being gay, they will not. Understand now?

anyone who knows anything about wedding cakes knows the delivery is to the reception hall well in advance of the event. And most wedding cakes are disassembled for transport and most bakers do set them up for their customers

I know this because my mother used to bake cakes and I delivered and set up many wedding cakes with her.

So it is a stretch to say walking into an empty reception hall to delver a cake is a betrayal of faith

Of course it's a stretch because it's not about faith, it's about not liking gays and wanting to discriminate against them. Jesus spoke against divorce, not against gays and yet every single one of these bakers would bake a wedding cake for a divorced and remarrying couple.

Jesus didn't ask whether or not Lazarus was gay before he brought him back to life.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The bakers, AS CHRISTIANS, should have sold the gay couple their cake, and done so graciously...THAT was their duty and this is what Christ taught.... over and over and over again....it was the outcasts, the sinners that Jesus spent His time with... The very people the Pharisees, the supposed religious rejected...the tax collector sinners, the adulterous, the Samaritans etc....and through His love and graciousness, He won them over....

No. They believe it's a sin to participate in a gay wedding, which makes it is a sin for them.

Romans 14

"12 So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.

14 I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean.

22 The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who has no reason to pass judgment on himself for what he approves.

23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin."

Yeah, well, these people believe a certain other form of marriage is a sin:

Pike church takes stand against interracial couples

Pike church takes stand against interracial couples Faith Values Kentucky.com

Make the argument that the business owner/operator members of this congregation should be able to discriminate against interracial couples because its their religious belief.

Let's hear it.

Anyone? Anything other than stunned silence from you experts on what is or isn't allowable discrimination?

 

[NLT]

Do you think that there are lesbian and gay activists that research owners of business to find out which one are Christians and target them? I do.

 

[NLT]

I wonder if I go to a gay bakery and want a cake with "Gays shall die with fire aids"on it. Do you think the gay owners will bake it for me and deliver it to the Anti-gay marriage meeting I am hosting? I think not.

 

[JoeB131]

I wonder if I go to a gay bakery and want a cake with "Gays shall die with fire aids"on it. Do you think the gay owners will bake it for me and deliver it to the Anti-gay marriage meeting I am hosting? I think not.

It depends, did they offer 'We will Print your Homophobic Cake" as a service that they offer? then probably not.

these bakers said they provide wedding cakes. It's a very specific service. Not "We'll provide Wedding Cakes, just not to you because we are selectively reading a bible".

 

[NLT]

I wonder if I go to a gay bakery and want a cake with "Gays shall die with fire aids"on it. Do you think the gay owners will bake it for me and deliver it to the Anti-gay marriage meeting I am hosting? I think not.

It depends, did they offer 'We will Print your Homophobic Cake" as a service that they offer? then probably not.

these bakers said they provide wedding cakes. It's a very specific service. Not "We'll provide Wedding Cakes, just not to you because we are selectively reading a bible".

BS it has all ready happened. They cant have their cake and eat it too. If I want to target a gay bakery that makes any kind of cake and have a Christian message on it, they must bake it for me or get sued.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I wonder if I go to a gay bakery and want a cake with "Gays shall die with fire aids"on it. Do you think the gay owners will bake it for me and deliver it to the Anti-gay marriage meeting I am hosting? I think not.

That's not discriminating against you. That's not selling you a product or service they don't provide in the first place.

 

[JoeB131]

I wonder if I go to a gay bakery and want a cake with "Gays shall die with fire aids"on it. Do you think the gay owners will bake it for me and deliver it to the Anti-gay marriage meeting I am hosting? I think not.

It depends, did they offer 'We will Print your Homophobic Cake" as a service that they offer? then probably not.

these bakers said they provide wedding cakes. It's a very specific service. Not "We'll provide Wedding Cakes, just not to you because we are selectively reading a bible".

BS it has all ready happened. They cant have their cake and eat it too. If I want to target a gay bakery that makes any kind of cake and have a Christian message on it, they must bake it for me or get sued.

I'm kind of curious where the Bible says ""Gays shall die with fire aids".

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I wonder if I go to a gay bakery and want a cake with "Gays shall die with fire aids"on it. Do you think the gay owners will bake it for me and deliver it to the Anti-gay marriage meeting I am hosting? I think not.

Why would anyone in his right mind request such a cake in the first place.

In any event, this completely misses the point. The issue has nothing to do with what's written on a cake, the issue concerns business owners refusing to accommodate gay patrons based solely on the patrons' sexual orientation, where public accommodations laws prohibiting such discrimination in no way 'violate' religious liberty.

Business owners who sell to the general public are subject to all manner of necessary, proper, and Constitutional regulatory policies that don't 'violate' religious liberty, public accommodations laws are no different.

 

[Carla_Danger]

The bakers, AS CHRISTIANS, should have sold the gay couple their cake, and done so graciously...THAT was their duty and this is what Christ taught.... over and over and over again....it was the outcasts, the sinners that Jesus spent His time with... The very people the Pharisees, the supposed religious rejected...the tax collector sinners, the adulterous, the Samaritans etc....and through His love and graciousness, He won them over....

Colossians 4:5-6, Proper conduct towards unbelievers
by Matt Slick
"Be wise in the way you act toward outsiders; make the most of every opportunity. 6Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone," Col. 4:5-6(NIV)

How do you behave with and toward unbelievers? Do you like them? Do you hate them? Do you tolerate them? Are you concerned about their salvation? Do you act like them when you aren't in Christian company? Do you snub them if they aren't holy? Some Christians think that being kind to unbelievers is like throwing pearls before swine. Then there are Christians who stand on street corners, in malls, and in front of abortion clinics to witness to unbelievers. Others just don't care one way or another. Where do you fit in? Do you share your faith using hugs or headlocks? Honey or a hammer? Or do you even share your faith at all?

The Word of God is very specific about how you as a Christian are to conduct yourself toward the non-Christian. Turn with me to Col. 4:5-6 and we will read together what God wants you, as a Christian, to do.

The literal translation of Col. 4:5-6 is

In wisdom, walk toward the ones outside, redeeming the time. Let your word be always in grace, having been seasoned with salt, to know how it is necessary for each one of you to answer.

1. God wants you to conduct yourselves with wisdom toward unbelievers, v. 5
   1. First of all, before anything else is said, we need to focus on something very important: the cross of Christ.
      1. It is because of the cross and our redemption found there that we are able to seek to be wise and good towards unbelievers.
      2. The sacrifice of Christ has cleansed us from our sins, forgiven us our trespasses, and enabled us to be gracious and kind by changing us. As we were once against God in our unbelief, God was gracious and kind to us. Because of Jesus we are to be kind to others.
   2. Literally the Greek says to "walk in wisdom toward outsiders."
      1. To the Jew every non-Jew was an outsider. To the Christian, every non Christian is an outsider; that is, outside the church. Outside of a relationship with the Lord Jesus.
      2. The context of the church: "In the days of the early church believers were often slandered by these outsiders. Christians were called atheists because they served no visible gods, unpatriotic because they did not burn incense before the image of the emperor, and immoral because, of necessity, they would often meet behind locked doors."
      3. Today there is still an attack on the church. Christians are called bigots because they condemn homosexuality, intolerant because they oppose abortion, religious extremists because they condemn sin, and narrow-minded because they believe there is one "one faith, one Lord, and one baptism" (Eph. 4:5).
      4. Yet, in spite of these attacks we are to remain humble, loving, caring, kind, and gentle. If we are not, if we do not show love and forbearance in the face of cruelty, insult, intolerance, and ridicule, then you are not showing the world that we know Jesus?
   3. That is why it is so important to have wise conduct before unbelievers.
      1. One reason is so you aren't made a fool.
      2. The reputation of the gospel depends on you.
      3. The world judges Christianity by what it sees in you.
         1. 1. Are you representing it well with kindness, holiness, consistent reverence to the Lord?
      4. Also, unfortunately, the world judges Christianity by what it sees on television where lies about Christians and Christianity are broadcast as the pagans version of the "gospel truth." All the more reason to live holy lives.
         1. 1. I remember years ago watching Miami vice. It opened with two Christians preaching. There was this bad guy who tripped and fell at the feet of two "Christians" who had Bibles and had been preaching. When the bad guy fell at their feet, the Christians started hitting him with their Bibles, kicking him, and yelling mean things at him.
            2. On another show, "Renegade" there was coffee house scene where a Christian couple behaved rudely, bigoted, cowardly, and stupid.
      5. Nevertheless, in spite of the insults, you are to be wise.
   4. God wants your conduct to be with wisdom. This conduct is your manner of behavior. This means you are to be
      1. sympathetic (this could be in counseling, listening, etc.)
      2. compassionate and humble (1 Pet. 3:8).
         1. "To sum up, let all be harmonious, sympathetic, brotherly, kindhearted, and humble in spirit;"
      3. loving
         1. "Don't repay evil for evil, or insult with insult, but with blessing repay the evil cast at you" (1 Pet. 3:9).
      4. patient - you are to be considerate and lonsuffering with the unbeliever.
      5. know when not to speak
         1. That is often one of the hardest things to do. It is so often the best thing to simply listen to a person and wait for a better opportunity.
      6. If your conduct is indeed with wisdom, then the name of Christ will not be maligned.
         1. The unbeliever will have no basis to mock Christ, His church, or His people.
         2. And, he may be brought into the fold of Christ.
2. God wants you to make the most of the opportunity with unbelievers, v. 5
   1. Literally the Greek says "redeeming the time," or "buying up the opportunity." The sense then would be "Do not just sit there and wait for opportunity to fall into your lap, but go after it. Yes, buy it."
   2. There is definitely a time to be aggressive in your relationship with an unbeliever.
   3. I would hope that as Christians you would not become complacent about evangelism. God uses the Gospel to call His people out of the world.
   4. The time is short and the world is evil: Ephesians 5:15-17 says, "Be very careful, then, how you live -- not as unwise but as wise, 16making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. 17Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is."
3. God wants you to let your speech to always be gracious with unbelievers, v. 6
   1. Paul is asking the Colossians to be careful with their tongues.
      1. Careful when they speak in public and private, no gossip.
      2. Careful when they speak to an equal or someone in power, no slander.
      3. Careful when they speak to the poor and the rich, no favoritism.
      4. Careful not only when speaking of the gospel but also when speaking of the weather, the economy, politicians, the authorities.
         1. In all your conversation be good.
   2. Gracious: God wants you to be careful, gracious, kind in your speech.
      1. Grace is getting what you do not deserve. Give them kindness, love, compassion, and patience.
   3. And note the word "always."
      1. In all situations at all times.
         1. playing a sport, watching a movie, driving, shopping, business, in church, out of church, at work....
   4. Being gracious means to be kind, gentle, positive, helpful, and insightful.
   5. A further description of this kind of gracious speech is: seasoned with salt, v. 6.
      1. Those whom the Lord calls "the salt of the earth" (Matt. 5:13) must not be tasteless.
      2. I work at a place where all the people around me are unbelievers. Their conversations are often vile, crass, filled with not so clean jokes. All to get that sense of belonging and being "in" with the rest of the group..
      3. Don't be like the ungodly around you.
      4. Salt prevents corruption.
         1. Elsewhere Paul said, "Do not let any corrupt talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen" (Eph. 4:29).
4. God wants you to know how to answer everyone, v. 6.
   1. Speak the right word and the right time to the right person.
      1. 1 Pet. 3:15 says, "But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect."
   2. Part of having answers means being wise.
      1. Proverbs, as well as the rest of Scripture, is the only source of true wisdom. With wisdom you will be properly be able to answer in times of counseling and heartache, joy and sorrow, and in times when morality is an issue.
   3. Part of having answers means knowing doctrine.
      1. The Catechisms are excellent teachers of doctrine.
      2. Know the doctrine of the Trinity, the deity of Christ and of the Holy Spirit, the gospel message, the resurrection, the return of Christ, and the rest of what the Bible teaches.
   4. Part of having answers means studying difficult issues.
      1. Study evolution, cults, and other religions.
      2. You don't have to master them, just be familiar with them.
5. And don't forget, in your wisdom and grace toward them, pray for them.
   1. They need to be granted the faith that God gives (John 6:28ff)
   2. They need to be granted the repentance that God gives (2 Tim. 2:25).
   3. They need to be granted the belief that God gives (Phil. 1:29).
   4. You can make a difference in your prayers (James 5:16).
      1. A...The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much."

Conclusion

So what difference do these verses make in your lives? Plenty. Your conduct and speech before an unbeliever is vitally important. Your conduct should be with wisdom, your speech with grace.

I know a Christian who years ago worked with an unbeliever. For two years, this Christian answered the unbelievers questions; he was gentle and kind in his conduct in all situations and always tried to point his friend to Christ. He sought to be wise and gracious. Today that unbeliever has become a pastor. The Lord used that Christian, his wise conduct, his gracious speech, to help bring another into His kingdom. To Jesus be the glory. Amen.

Funny, you quote the bible, but do nothing it says. Nothing.

Are you projecting?

 

[Carla_Danger]

I am still waiting for someone to present a cogent argument as to how baking a cake somehow is forcing the baker to betray his faith.

It doesn't. Baking the cake wasn't the problem. They were asked to bring the cake to the wedding these two were having. Personally, I would have made the cake and said, "Get someone else to take it to your wedding, you got what you paid for."

They would have fulfilled their end by making the cake, and fulfilled their religious convictions by not taking it to the wedding.

And I will posit this:

If you ask a devout Christian to betray his beliefs, he will not. If you ask a gay person to stop being gay, they will not. Understand now?

anyone who knows anything about wedding cakes knows the delivery is to the reception hall well in advance of the event. And most wedding cakes are disassembled for transport and most bakers do set them up for their customers

I know this because my mother used to bake cakes and I delivered and set up many wedding cakes with her.

So it is a stretch to say walking into an empty reception hall to delver a cake is a betrayal of faith

Of course it's a stretch because it's not about faith, it's about not liking gays and wanting to discriminate against them. Jesus spoke against divorce, not against gays and yet every single one of these bakers would bake a wedding cake for a divorced and remarrying couple.

Exactly! These cafeteria Christians are a riot!