No One Voted to Destroy Social Security

[Lakhota]

Who will defend Social Security?

 

[buckeye45_73]

Who will defend Social Security?

Apparently not you, you'll just let it go broke.

 

[flacaltenn]

Yes .. SocSec NEEDS to be "managed" and "touched"... It's only been 2 generations before it was robbed and failed.

Social Security is the largest holder of U.S. debt and draws interest on its loan to the government - just like China and other debt holders.

See post #34. Those are not BONDS that were bought and paid when Congress STOLE the surplus. They are bookkeeping entries. INTRA governmental debt. There is nothing of VALUE in the "trust fund"... Here are the words AGAIN..

Neither the redemption of trust fund bonds, nor
interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public.

The choice of action is to issue NEW DEBT -- that you and your grandchildren will be paying principle interest on because some former Congress stole the surplus. Not "increased taxation or reductions in other government spending". Like the SSA and CBO says above. That's the SECOND TIME you were robbed.

You should be familiar with the way the Feds robbed the Indian Trust Fund right chief? Robbed the Highway Trust Fund -- Right? You DO KNOW the Indian Nations got screwed by a Fed Trust Fund right?

So why do you think it's so funny?

What is the "source" of your claims?

I GAVE YOU THE FUCKING SOURCE IN THE LINK.. Go back and find it. Right out of Page 12 of most EVERY SSAdmin annual report. It's in the "fine print". After all the 10 pages of happy BS fiction about the phony surplus accounting. Those words I'm putting in front of you mean -- there is NOTHING OF VALUE LEFT in the SS Trust Fund. Nothing but the whims of Congress and fucking MOUNTAINLOAD of existing debt.

Funny that 2 -- will ya??

If a registered company on the NY Stock Exchange pulled that Bullshit accounting trick in their yearly report, the entire Executive staff would be in jail..

It's a fucking loan! Don't you get that? Government pays interest on the loan. Government pays interest to China and other holders of U.S. debt.

What interest rate do the trust funds' assets earn?

Nothing of value was ever PUT into the SS Trust Fund. If the Congress had been honest about it -- they would have taken the SS Surplus and purchased EXISTING bonds on the open market. Thus PUTTING something of value into the TFund. And relieving some debt. But they used the surplus to HIDE debt. Debt that was never covered. So the initial money is GONE.

2nd theft was KNOWING decades in advance that SS was gonna run deficits. And at the times of those deficits, NEW debt would have to be issued to cover the shortfalls. So with nothing of value in the TF to make checks with -- NEW taxpayers and their kids will have to pony up to pay for the money that was STOLEN from their parents.

If they had "INVESTED" in REAL bonds, Those bonds would have been booked ONCE. Held their initial value and interest, and could be SOLD today ON THE MARKET to raise real cash for the SS deficit. But -- they scammed you.. TWICE....

SSA says so.. Pg 12 of the link I gave you.. CBO agrees.. You "need to read the prospectus carefully" for everything you "invest" in..

 

[Lakhota]

Social Security is the largest holder of U.S. debt and draws interest on its loan to the government - just like China and other debt holders.

See post #34. Those are not BONDS that were bought and paid when Congress STOLE the surplus. They are bookkeeping entries. INTRA governmental debt. There is nothing of VALUE in the "trust fund"... Here are the words AGAIN..

Neither the redemption of trust fund bonds, nor
interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public.

The choice of action is to issue NEW DEBT -- that you and your grandchildren will be paying principle interest on because some former Congress stole the surplus. Not "increased taxation or reductions in other government spending". Like the SSA and CBO says above. That's the SECOND TIME you were robbed.

You should be familiar with the way the Feds robbed the Indian Trust Fund right chief? Robbed the Highway Trust Fund -- Right? You DO KNOW the Indian Nations got screwed by a Fed Trust Fund right?

So why do you think it's so funny?

What is the "source" of your claims?

I GAVE YOU THE FUCKING SOURCE IN THE LINK.. Go back and find it. Right out of Page 12 of most EVERY SSAdmin annual report. It's in the "fine print". After all the 10 pages of happy BS fiction about the phony surplus accounting. Those words I'm putting in front of you mean -- there is NOTHING OF VALUE LEFT in the SS Trust Fund. Nothing but the whims of Congress and fucking MOUNTAINLOAD of existing debt.

Funny that 2 -- will ya??

If a registered company on the NY Stock Exchange pulled that Bullshit accounting trick in their yearly report, the entire Executive staff would be in jail..

It's a fucking loan! Don't you get that? Government pays interest on the loan. Government pays interest to China and other holders of U.S. debt.

What interest rate do the trust funds' assets earn?

Nothing of value was ever PUT into the SS Trust Fund. If the Congress had been honest about it -- they would have taken the SS Surplus and purchased EXISTING bonds on the open market. Thus PUTTING something of value into the TFund. And relieving some debt. But they used the surplus to HIDE debt. Debt that was never covered. So the initial money is GONE.

2nd theft was KNOWING decades in advance that SS was gonna run deficits. And at the times of those deficits, NEW debt would have to be issued to cover the shortfalls. So with nothing of value in the TF to make checks with -- NEW taxpayers and their kids will have to pony up to pay for the money that was STOLEN from their parents.

If they had "INVESTED" in REAL bonds, Those bonds would have been booked ONCE. Held their initial value and interest, and could be SOLD today ON THE MARKET to raise real cash for the SS deficit. But -- they scammed you.. TWICE....

SSA says so.. Pg 12 of the link I gave you.. CBO agrees.. You "need to read the prospectus carefully" for everything you "invest" in..

Are you saying that the government doesn't owe Social Security about $2.8 trillion? The government also owes China and other holders of U.S. debt. Are they holding "worthless" debt as you seem to insinuate Social Security is holding? Sounds like someone should enlighten China and the others.

Intragovernmental Holdings

Which agencies own the most Treasuries? Social Security, by a long shot.

Here's the detailed breakdown (as of December 31, 2015):

• Social Security (Social Security Trust Fund and Federal Disability Insurance Trust Fund) - $2.786 trillion
• Office of Personnel Management Retirement - $873 billion
• Military Retirement Fund - $601 billion
• Medicare (Federal Hospital Insurance Trust Fund, Federal Supplementary Medical Insurance Trust Fund) - $267 billion
• All Other Retirement Funds - $187 billion
• Cash on Hand to Fund Federal Government Operations - $508 billion. (Source: Treasury Bulletin, Monthly Treasury Statement, Table 6. Schedule D-Investments of Federal Government Accounts in Federal Securities, December 2015)

Debt Held by the Public

Here's the breakout:

• Foreign - $6.175 trillion
• Federal Reserve - $2.461 trillion
• Mutual Funds - $1.056 trillion
• State and Local Government, including their pension funds - $803 billion
• Private Pension Funds - $403 billion
• Banks - $515 billion
• Insurance Companies - $293 billion
• U.S. Savings Bonds - $174 billion
• Other (individuals, government-sponsored enterprises, brokers and dealers, bank personal trusts and estates, corporate and non-corporate businesses, and other investors) - $1.198 trillion. (Sources: Federal Reserve, Factors Affecting Reserve Balance, May 12, 2016. Treasury Bulletin, Ownership of Federal Securities, Table OFS-2, as of June 2015)

This debt is not only in Treasury bills, notes, and bonds but also TIPS and special State and Local Government Series securities.

What About Foreign Ownership of the Debt?

China owns $1.157 trillion U.S. debt. As of September 2016, it was the largest foreign holder. Japan is next, holding $1.136 trillion. Both Japan and China want to keep thevalue of the dollar high when compared to their currencies. That helps their exports to the United States seem more affordable, which helps their economies grow. That's why, despite China's occasional threats to sell its holdings, both countries are happy to be America's biggest foreign bankers. China replaced the United Kingdom as the second largest foreign holder on May 31, 2007. That's when it increased its holdings to $699 billion, outpacing the United Kingdom's $640 billion.

Ireland is third, holding $270 billion. The Cayman Islands is fourth, at $262 billion. Luxembourg is seventh ($227 billion), and Belgium is eleventh ($142 billion). The Bureau of International Settlements believes all three are fronts for sovereign wealth funds and hedge funds that don't want to reveal their positions.

Brazil is the fifth largest holder at $258 billion. The next largest holders are Switzerland, the UK, Hong Kong, Taiwan, and India. They each hold between $122 - $240 billion each. (Source: Foreign Holding of U.S. Treasury Securities, October 18, 2016. "Petrodollars and Global Imbalances," U.S. Treasury, February 2006.) Data is from various reports that are released at different times. Therefore, the total may not add up to $19 trillion.

The Real Owner of the U.S. Debt Will Surprise You

Bottom Line: We can't undo what was done to Social Security - but the solution is not to abolish it.

 

[Lakhota]

That...

 

[flacaltenn]

See post #34. Those are not BONDS that were bought and paid when Congress STOLE the surplus. They are bookkeeping entries. INTRA governmental debt. There is nothing of VALUE in the "trust fund"... Here are the words AGAIN..

Neither the redemption of trust fund bonds, nor
interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public.

The choice of action is to issue NEW DEBT -- that you and your grandchildren will be paying principle interest on because some former Congress stole the surplus. Not "increased taxation or reductions in other government spending". Like the SSA and CBO says above. That's the SECOND TIME you were robbed.

You should be familiar with the way the Feds robbed the Indian Trust Fund right chief? Robbed the Highway Trust Fund -- Right? You DO KNOW the Indian Nations got screwed by a Fed Trust Fund right?

So why do you think it's so funny?

What is the "source" of your claims?

I GAVE YOU THE FUCKING SOURCE IN THE LINK.. Go back and find it. Right out of Page 12 of most EVERY SSAdmin annual report. It's in the "fine print". After all the 10 pages of happy BS fiction about the phony surplus accounting. Those words I'm putting in front of you mean -- there is NOTHING OF VALUE LEFT in the SS Trust Fund. Nothing but the whims of Congress and fucking MOUNTAINLOAD of existing debt.

Funny that 2 -- will ya??

If a registered company on the NY Stock Exchange pulled that Bullshit accounting trick in their yearly report, the entire Executive staff would be in jail..

It's a fucking loan! Don't you get that? Government pays interest on the loan. Government pays interest to China and other holders of U.S. debt.

What interest rate do the trust funds' assets earn?

Nothing of value was ever PUT into the SS Trust Fund. If the Congress had been honest about it -- they would have taken the SS Surplus and purchased EXISTING bonds on the open market. Thus PUTTING something of value into the TFund. And relieving some debt. But they used the surplus to HIDE debt. Debt that was never covered. So the initial money is GONE.

2nd theft was KNOWING decades in advance that SS was gonna run deficits. And at the times of those deficits, NEW debt would have to be issued to cover the shortfalls. So with nothing of value in the TF to make checks with -- NEW taxpayers and their kids will have to pony up to pay for the money that was STOLEN from their parents.

If they had "INVESTED" in REAL bonds, Those bonds would have been booked ONCE. Held their initial value and interest, and could be SOLD today ON THE MARKET to raise real cash for the SS deficit. But -- they scammed you.. TWICE....

SSA says so.. Pg 12 of the link I gave you.. CBO agrees.. You "need to read the prospectus carefully" for everything you "invest" in..

Are you saying that the government doesn't owe Social Security about $2.8 trillion? The government also owes China and other holders of U.S. debt. Are they holding "worthless" debt as you seem to insinuate Social Security is holding? Sounds like someone should enlighten China and the others.

Intragovernmental Holdings

Which agencies own the most Treasuries? Social Security, by a long shot.

Here's the detailed breakdown (as of December 31, 2015):

• Social Security (Social Security Trust Fund and Federal Disability Insurance Trust Fund) - $2.786 trillion
• Office of Personnel Management Retirement - $873 billion
• Military Retirement Fund - $601 billion
• Medicare (Federal Hospital Insurance Trust Fund, Federal Supplementary Medical Insurance Trust Fund) - $267 billion
• All Other Retirement Funds - $187 billion
• Cash on Hand to Fund Federal Government Operations - $508 billion. (Source: Treasury Bulletin, Monthly Treasury Statement, Table 6. Schedule D-Investments of Federal Government Accounts in Federal Securities, December 2015)

Debt Held by the Public

Here's the breakout:

• Foreign - $6.175 trillion
• Federal Reserve - $2.461 trillion
• Mutual Funds - $1.056 trillion
• State and Local Government, including their pension funds - $803 billion
• Private Pension Funds - $403 billion
• Banks - $515 billion
• Insurance Companies - $293 billion
• U.S. Savings Bonds - $174 billion
• Other (individuals, government-sponsored enterprises, brokers and dealers, bank personal trusts and estates, corporate and non-corporate businesses, and other investors) - $1.198 trillion. (Sources: Federal Reserve, Factors Affecting Reserve Balance, May 12, 2016. Treasury Bulletin, Ownership of Federal Securities, Table OFS-2, as of June 2015)

This debt is not only in Treasury bills, notes, and bonds but also TIPS and special State and Local Government Series securities.

What About Foreign Ownership of the Debt?

China owns $1.157 trillion U.S. debt. As of September 2016, it was the largest foreign holder. Japan is next, holding $1.136 trillion. Both Japan and China want to keep thevalue of the dollar high when compared to their currencies. That helps their exports to the United States seem more affordable, which helps their economies grow. That's why, despite China's occasional threats to sell its holdings, both countries are happy to be America's biggest foreign bankers. China replaced the United Kingdom as the second largest foreign holder on May 31, 2007. That's when it increased its holdings to $699 billion, outpacing the United Kingdom's $640 billion.

Ireland is third, holding $270 billion. The Cayman Islands is fourth, at $262 billion. Luxembourg is seventh ($227 billion), and Belgium is eleventh ($142 billion). The Bureau of International Settlements believes all three are fronts for sovereign wealth funds and hedge funds that don't want to reveal their positions.

Brazil is the fifth largest holder at $258 billion. The next largest holders are Switzerland, the UK, Hong Kong, Taiwan, and India. They each hold between $122 - $240 billion each. (Source: Foreign Holding of U.S. Treasury Securities, October 18, 2016. "Petrodollars and Global Imbalances," U.S. Treasury, February 2006.) Data is from various reports that are released at different times. Therefore, the total may not add up to $19 trillion.

The Real Owner of the U.S. Debt Will Surprise You

Bottom Line: We can't undo what was done to Social Security - but the solution is not to abolish it.

The difference is -- The Feds didn't STEAL money from China in the 80s and issue them an IOU that would paid for by future taxpayers. For the Trust Fund -- they stole money from YOU in the 80s and now expect YOU to pay for that theft with DOUBLE interest. The PHONEY interest of the TFund bookkeeping, plus the NEW REAL INTEREST that has to be paid to China for the next 20 or 30 years.

 

[Lakhota]

What is the "source" of your claims?

I GAVE YOU THE FUCKING SOURCE IN THE LINK.. Go back and find it. Right out of Page 12 of most EVERY SSAdmin annual report. It's in the "fine print". After all the 10 pages of happy BS fiction about the phony surplus accounting. Those words I'm putting in front of you mean -- there is NOTHING OF VALUE LEFT in the SS Trust Fund. Nothing but the whims of Congress and fucking MOUNTAINLOAD of existing debt.

Funny that 2 -- will ya??

If a registered company on the NY Stock Exchange pulled that Bullshit accounting trick in their yearly report, the entire Executive staff would be in jail..

It's a fucking loan! Don't you get that? Government pays interest on the loan. Government pays interest to China and other holders of U.S. debt.

What interest rate do the trust funds' assets earn?

Nothing of value was ever PUT into the SS Trust Fund. If the Congress had been honest about it -- they would have taken the SS Surplus and purchased EXISTING bonds on the open market. Thus PUTTING something of value into the TFund. And relieving some debt. But they used the surplus to HIDE debt. Debt that was never covered. So the initial money is GONE.

2nd theft was KNOWING decades in advance that SS was gonna run deficits. And at the times of those deficits, NEW debt would have to be issued to cover the shortfalls. So with nothing of value in the TF to make checks with -- NEW taxpayers and their kids will have to pony up to pay for the money that was STOLEN from their parents.

If they had "INVESTED" in REAL bonds, Those bonds would have been booked ONCE. Held their initial value and interest, and could be SOLD today ON THE MARKET to raise real cash for the SS deficit. But -- they scammed you.. TWICE....

SSA says so.. Pg 12 of the link I gave you.. CBO agrees.. You "need to read the prospectus carefully" for everything you "invest" in..

Are you saying that the government doesn't owe Social Security about $2.8 trillion? The government also owes China and other holders of U.S. debt. Are they holding "worthless" debt as you seem to insinuate Social Security is holding? Sounds like someone should enlighten China and the others.

Intragovernmental Holdings

Which agencies own the most Treasuries? Social Security, by a long shot.

Here's the detailed breakdown (as of December 31, 2015):

• Social Security (Social Security Trust Fund and Federal Disability Insurance Trust Fund) - $2.786 trillion
• Office of Personnel Management Retirement - $873 billion
• Military Retirement Fund - $601 billion
• Medicare (Federal Hospital Insurance Trust Fund, Federal Supplementary Medical Insurance Trust Fund) - $267 billion
• All Other Retirement Funds - $187 billion
• Cash on Hand to Fund Federal Government Operations - $508 billion. (Source: Treasury Bulletin, Monthly Treasury Statement, Table 6. Schedule D-Investments of Federal Government Accounts in Federal Securities, December 2015)

Debt Held by the Public

Here's the breakout:

• Foreign - $6.175 trillion
• Federal Reserve - $2.461 trillion
• Mutual Funds - $1.056 trillion
• State and Local Government, including their pension funds - $803 billion
• Private Pension Funds - $403 billion
• Banks - $515 billion
• Insurance Companies - $293 billion
• U.S. Savings Bonds - $174 billion
• Other (individuals, government-sponsored enterprises, brokers and dealers, bank personal trusts and estates, corporate and non-corporate businesses, and other investors) - $1.198 trillion. (Sources: Federal Reserve, Factors Affecting Reserve Balance, May 12, 2016. Treasury Bulletin, Ownership of Federal Securities, Table OFS-2, as of June 2015)

This debt is not only in Treasury bills, notes, and bonds but also TIPS and special State and Local Government Series securities.

What About Foreign Ownership of the Debt?

China owns $1.157 trillion U.S. debt. As of September 2016, it was the largest foreign holder. Japan is next, holding $1.136 trillion. Both Japan and China want to keep thevalue of the dollar high when compared to their currencies. That helps their exports to the United States seem more affordable, which helps their economies grow. That's why, despite China's occasional threats to sell its holdings, both countries are happy to be America's biggest foreign bankers. China replaced the United Kingdom as the second largest foreign holder on May 31, 2007. That's when it increased its holdings to $699 billion, outpacing the United Kingdom's $640 billion.

Ireland is third, holding $270 billion. The Cayman Islands is fourth, at $262 billion. Luxembourg is seventh ($227 billion), and Belgium is eleventh ($142 billion). The Bureau of International Settlements believes all three are fronts for sovereign wealth funds and hedge funds that don't want to reveal their positions.

Brazil is the fifth largest holder at $258 billion. The next largest holders are Switzerland, the UK, Hong Kong, Taiwan, and India. They each hold between $122 - $240 billion each. (Source: Foreign Holding of U.S. Treasury Securities, October 18, 2016. "Petrodollars and Global Imbalances," U.S. Treasury, February 2006.) Data is from various reports that are released at different times. Therefore, the total may not add up to $19 trillion.

The Real Owner of the U.S. Debt Will Surprise You

Bottom Line: We can't undo what was done to Social Security - but the solution is not to abolish it.

The difference is -- The Feds didn't STEAL money from China in the 80s and issue them an IOU that would paid for by future taxpayers. For the Trust Fund -- they stole money from YOU in the 80s and now expect YOU to pay for that theft with DOUBLE interest. The PHONEY interest of the TFund bookkeeping, plus the NEW REAL INTEREST that has to be paid to China for the next 20 or 30 years.

Do you think Social Security should be abolished or transferred to Wall Street? If it's transferred to Wall Street - that would mean the government would have to fork over about $2.8 trillion that is currently owed to Social Security. Same if it's abolished. Do you think the government would do that? Personally, I think the Republican plan is to just steal it without ever repaying it.

 

[sartre play]

What a mess, I want my children to have the safety net. incase something like 207 happens again.

 

[JoeTheEconomist]

Not a single candidate in 2016 campaigned on a promise to repeal and replace Social Security or Medicare. Anyone who did would have been soundly defeated. Indeed, unlike the Republican opponents he beat, Donald Trump promised not to touch Social Security, Medicare, or Medicaid. But now that the Republicans will soon be in charge of all branches of government, destroying Social Security and Medicare is on the top of their agenda.

Two days after the election, Paul Ryan said, “With a unified Republican government, we can actually get things done.” One of those things is ending Medicare as we know it, as I and others have spotlighted. It turns out that Social Security is in the Republicans’ cross hairs, as well. This is not a surprise. Ending Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid is Republican-elite orthodoxy.

What is surprising is that the Republican establishment is so eager, it can’t wait to unveil its plans. In some ways, you can’t blame the Republican elites. They have been waiting a long time.

In the 1936 election campaign, repealing and replacing Social Security was the Republican battle cry. That year, the Republican presidential standard bearer, Alf Landon, claimed, “To get a workable old age pension plan we must repeal [Social Security].” What did he and his fellow Republicans want to replace it with? Instead of Social Security’s pension plan, which replaces wages so that people can retire with dignity and maintain their standard of living as they age, the Republicans proposed paying all seniors an identical subsistence-level amount.

Now, just before Congress left town, the powerful Chairman of the Social Security Subcommittee of the House Ways and Means Committee unveiled a proposal that would radically transform Social Security. It takes a long time to phase in, but when it does, what would Social Security provide? An essentially flat, subsistence level benefit, independent of how much a worker contributed, just as the 1936 Republican Party proposed.

Unlike 1936, when straightforward repeal was possible, because Social Security hadn’t yet begun, today it has been around for over eighty years. So, to get back to what the Republicans wanted then and now, you have to slash benefits – and the Republican plan does so with gusto.

Much More: No One Voted to Destroy Social Security

People of all ages should fight this - because it would affect ALL of us - young and old.

More fake news from the far left!

The news is real, the response is a little overly dramatic.

 

[JoeTheEconomist]

I GAVE YOU THE FUCKING SOURCE IN THE LINK.. Go back and find it. Right out of Page 12 of most EVERY SSAdmin annual report. It's in the "fine print". After all the 10 pages of happy BS fiction about the phony surplus accounting. Those words I'm putting in front of you mean -- there is NOTHING OF VALUE LEFT in the SS Trust Fund. Nothing but the whims of Congress and fucking MOUNTAINLOAD of existing debt.

Funny that 2 -- will ya??

If a registered company on the NY Stock Exchange pulled that Bullshit accounting trick in their yearly report, the entire Executive staff would be in jail..

It's a fucking loan! Don't you get that? Government pays interest on the loan. Government pays interest to China and other holders of U.S. debt.

What interest rate do the trust funds' assets earn?

Nothing of value was ever PUT into the SS Trust Fund. If the Congress had been honest about it -- they would have taken the SS Surplus and purchased EXISTING bonds on the open market. Thus PUTTING something of value into the TFund. And relieving some debt. But they used the surplus to HIDE debt. Debt that was never covered. So the initial money is GONE.

2nd theft was KNOWING decades in advance that SS was gonna run deficits. And at the times of those deficits, NEW debt would have to be issued to cover the shortfalls. So with nothing of value in the TF to make checks with -- NEW taxpayers and their kids will have to pony up to pay for the money that was STOLEN from their parents.

If they had "INVESTED" in REAL bonds, Those bonds would have been booked ONCE. Held their initial value and interest, and could be SOLD today ON THE MARKET to raise real cash for the SS deficit. But -- they scammed you.. TWICE....

SSA says so.. Pg 12 of the link I gave you.. CBO agrees.. You "need to read the prospectus carefully" for everything you "invest" in..

Are you saying that the government doesn't owe Social Security about $2.8 trillion? The government also owes China and other holders of U.S. debt. Are they holding "worthless" debt as you seem to insinuate Social Security is holding? Sounds like someone should enlighten China and the others.

Intragovernmental Holdings

Which agencies own the most Treasuries? Social Security, by a long shot.

Here's the detailed breakdown (as of December 31, 2015):

• Social Security (Social Security Trust Fund and Federal Disability Insurance Trust Fund) - $2.786 trillion
• Office of Personnel Management Retirement - $873 billion
• Military Retirement Fund - $601 billion
• Medicare (Federal Hospital Insurance Trust Fund, Federal Supplementary Medical Insurance Trust Fund) - $267 billion
• All Other Retirement Funds - $187 billion
• Cash on Hand to Fund Federal Government Operations - $508 billion. (Source: Treasury Bulletin, Monthly Treasury Statement, Table 6. Schedule D-Investments of Federal Government Accounts in Federal Securities, December 2015)

Debt Held by the Public

Here's the breakout:

• Foreign - $6.175 trillion
• Federal Reserve - $2.461 trillion
• Mutual Funds - $1.056 trillion
• State and Local Government, including their pension funds - $803 billion
• Private Pension Funds - $403 billion
• Banks - $515 billion
• Insurance Companies - $293 billion
• U.S. Savings Bonds - $174 billion
• Other (individuals, government-sponsored enterprises, brokers and dealers, bank personal trusts and estates, corporate and non-corporate businesses, and other investors) - $1.198 trillion. (Sources: Federal Reserve, Factors Affecting Reserve Balance, May 12, 2016. Treasury Bulletin, Ownership of Federal Securities, Table OFS-2, as of June 2015)

This debt is not only in Treasury bills, notes, and bonds but also TIPS and special State and Local Government Series securities.

What About Foreign Ownership of the Debt?

China owns $1.157 trillion U.S. debt. As of September 2016, it was the largest foreign holder. Japan is next, holding $1.136 trillion. Both Japan and China want to keep thevalue of the dollar high when compared to their currencies. That helps their exports to the United States seem more affordable, which helps their economies grow. That's why, despite China's occasional threats to sell its holdings, both countries are happy to be America's biggest foreign bankers. China replaced the United Kingdom as the second largest foreign holder on May 31, 2007. That's when it increased its holdings to $699 billion, outpacing the United Kingdom's $640 billion.

Ireland is third, holding $270 billion. The Cayman Islands is fourth, at $262 billion. Luxembourg is seventh ($227 billion), and Belgium is eleventh ($142 billion). The Bureau of International Settlements believes all three are fronts for sovereign wealth funds and hedge funds that don't want to reveal their positions.

Brazil is the fifth largest holder at $258 billion. The next largest holders are Switzerland, the UK, Hong Kong, Taiwan, and India. They each hold between $122 - $240 billion each. (Source: Foreign Holding of U.S. Treasury Securities, October 18, 2016. "Petrodollars and Global Imbalances," U.S. Treasury, February 2006.) Data is from various reports that are released at different times. Therefore, the total may not add up to $19 trillion.

The Real Owner of the U.S. Debt Will Surprise You

Bottom Line: We can't undo what was done to Social Security - but the solution is not to abolish it.

The difference is -- The Feds didn't STEAL money from China in the 80s and issue them an IOU that would paid for by future taxpayers. For the Trust Fund -- they stole money from YOU in the 80s and now expect YOU to pay for that theft with DOUBLE interest. The PHONEY interest of the TFund bookkeeping, plus the NEW REAL INTEREST that has to be paid to China for the next 20 or 30 years.

Do you think Social Security should be abolished or transferred to Wall Street? If it's transferred to Wall Street - that would mean the government would have to fork over about $2.8 trillion that is currently owed to Social Security. Same if it's abolished. Do you think the government would do that? Personally, I think the Republican plan is to just steal it without ever repaying it.

The irony of your post is that is what Bill Clinton supported, and based on the email release Hillary was at least listening to.

 

[JoeTheEconomist]

Not a single candidate in 2016 campaigned on a promise to repeal and replace Social Security or Medicare. Anyone who did would have been soundly defeated. Indeed, unlike the Republican opponents he beat, Donald Trump promised not to touch Social Security, Medicare, or Medicaid. But now that the Republicans will soon be in charge of all branches of government, destroying Social Security and Medicare is on the top of their agenda.

Two days after the election, Paul Ryan said, “With a unified Republican government, we can actually get things done.” One of those things is ending Medicare as we know it, as I and others have spotlighted. It turns out that Social Security is in the Republicans’ cross hairs, as well. This is not a surprise. Ending Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid is Republican-elite orthodoxy.

What is surprising is that the Republican establishment is so eager, it can’t wait to unveil its plans. In some ways, you can’t blame the Republican elites. They have been waiting a long time.

In the 1936 election campaign, repealing and replacing Social Security was the Republican battle cry. That year, the Republican presidential standard bearer, Alf Landon, claimed, “To get a workable old age pension plan we must repeal [Social Security].” What did he and his fellow Republicans want to replace it with? Instead of Social Security’s pension plan, which replaces wages so that people can retire with dignity and maintain their standard of living as they age, the Republicans proposed paying all seniors an identical subsistence-level amount.

Now, just before Congress left town, the powerful Chairman of the Social Security Subcommittee of the House Ways and Means Committee unveiled a proposal that would radically transform Social Security. It takes a long time to phase in, but when it does, what would Social Security provide? An essentially flat, subsistence level benefit, independent of how much a worker contributed, just as the 1936 Republican Party proposed.

Unlike 1936, when straightforward repeal was possible, because Social Security hadn’t yet begun, today it has been around for over eighty years. So, to get back to what the Republicans wanted then and now, you have to slash benefits – and the Republican plan does so with gusto.

Much More: No One Voted to Destroy Social Security

People of all ages should fight this - because it would affect ALL of us - young and old.

It's hillarious how you guys on the left stay awake at night thinking this stuff up.

I am not sure about the 1936 GOP platform, but most of the what he claims about the reform package is true. The one thing that he omitted is that it has less than a 1% chance of passing. Not entirely sure why they introduced when they did.

 

[JoeTheEconomist]

Social Security is the largest holder of U.S. debt and draws interest on its loan to the government - just like China and other debt holders.

See post #34. Those are not BONDS that were bought and paid when Congress STOLE the surplus. They are bookkeeping entries. INTRA governmental debt. There is nothing of VALUE in the "trust fund"... Here are the words AGAIN..

Neither the redemption of trust fund bonds, nor
interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public.

The choice of action is to issue NEW DEBT -- that you and your grandchildren will be paying principle interest on because some former Congress stole the surplus. Not "increased taxation or reductions in other government spending". Like the SSA and CBO says above. That's the SECOND TIME you were robbed.

You should be familiar with the way the Feds robbed the Indian Trust Fund right chief? Robbed the Highway Trust Fund -- Right? You DO KNOW the Indian Nations got screwed by a Fed Trust Fund right?

So why do you think it's so funny?

What is the "source" of your claims?

I GAVE YOU THE FUCKING SOURCE IN THE LINK.. Go back and find it. Right out of Page 12 of most EVERY SSAdmin annual report. It's in the "fine print". After all the 10 pages of happy BS fiction about the phony surplus accounting. Those words I'm putting in front of you mean -- there is NOTHING OF VALUE LEFT in the SS Trust Fund. Nothing but the whims of Congress and fucking MOUNTAINLOAD of existing debt.

Funny that 2 -- will ya??

If a registered company on the NY Stock Exchange pulled that Bullshit accounting trick in their yearly report, the entire Executive staff would be in jail..

It's a fucking loan! Don't you get that? Government pays interest on the loan. Government pays interest to China and other holders of U.S. debt.

What interest rate do the trust funds' assets earn?

Nothing of value was ever PUT into the SS Trust Fund. If the Congress had been honest about it -- they would have taken the SS Surplus and purchased EXISTING bonds on the open market. Thus PUTTING something of value into the TFund. And relieving some debt. But they used the surplus to HIDE debt. Debt that was never covered. So the initial money is GONE.

2nd theft was KNOWING decades in advance that SS was gonna run deficits. And at the times of those deficits, NEW debt would have to be issued to cover the shortfalls. So with nothing of value in the TF to make checks with -- NEW taxpayers and their kids will have to pony up to pay for the money that was STOLEN from their parents.

If they had "INVESTED" in REAL bonds, Those bonds would have been booked ONCE. Held their initial value and interest, and could be SOLD today ON THE MARKET to raise real cash for the SS deficit. But -- they scammed you.. TWICE....

SSA says so.. Pg 12 of the link I gave you.. CBO agrees.. You "need to read the prospectus carefully" for everything you "invest" in..

Please repost the link.

Private pensions invest in these securities and no one complains. The point that these securities aren't marketable is a red-herring. They have a put option in them. Making a putable bond marketable is done only by a sucker. Who would we sell the bond to if the issuer couldn't repay it? Today the system has about a dime of assets for every dollar of unfunded obligation, and you are worried about the dime?

 

[bendog]

Not a single candidate in 2016 campaigned on a promise to repeal and replace Social Security or Medicare. Anyone who did would have been soundly defeated. Indeed, unlike the Republican opponents he beat, Donald Trump promised not to touch Social Security, Medicare, or Medicaid. But now that the Republicans will soon be in charge of all branches of government, destroying Social Security and Medicare is on the top of their agenda.

Two days after the election, Paul Ryan said, “With a unified Republican government, we can actually get things done.” One of those things is ending Medicare as we know it, as I and others have spotlighted. It turns out that Social Security is in the Republicans’ cross hairs, as well. This is not a surprise. Ending Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid is Republican-elite orthodoxy.

What is surprising is that the Republican establishment is so eager, it can’t wait to unveil its plans. In some ways, you can’t blame the Republican elites. They have been waiting a long time.

In the 1936 election campaign, repealing and replacing Social Security was the Republican battle cry. That year, the Republican presidential standard bearer, Alf Landon, claimed, “To get a workable old age pension plan we must repeal [Social Security].” What did he and his fellow Republicans want to replace it with? Instead of Social Security’s pension plan, which replaces wages so that people can retire with dignity and maintain their standard of living as they age, the Republicans proposed paying all seniors an identical subsistence-level amount.

Now, just before Congress left town, the powerful Chairman of the Social Security Subcommittee of the House Ways and Means Committee unveiled a proposal that would radically transform Social Security. It takes a long time to phase in, but when it does, what would Social Security provide? An essentially flat, subsistence level benefit, independent of how much a worker contributed, just as the 1936 Republican Party proposed.

Unlike 1936, when straightforward repeal was possible, because Social Security hadn’t yet begun, today it has been around for over eighty years. So, to get back to what the Republicans wanted then and now, you have to slash benefits – and the Republican plan does so with gusto.

Much More: No One Voted to Destroy Social Security

People of all ages should fight this - because it would affect ALL of us - young and old.

We don't care. I got mine. Y'all are on your own. Tough luck. (-:

 

[flacaltenn]

See post #34. Those are not BONDS that were bought and paid when Congress STOLE the surplus. They are bookkeeping entries. INTRA governmental debt. There is nothing of VALUE in the "trust fund"... Here are the words AGAIN..

Neither the redemption of trust fund bonds, nor
interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public.

The choice of action is to issue NEW DEBT -- that you and your grandchildren will be paying principle interest on because some former Congress stole the surplus. Not "increased taxation or reductions in other government spending". Like the SSA and CBO says above. That's the SECOND TIME you were robbed.

You should be familiar with the way the Feds robbed the Indian Trust Fund right chief? Robbed the Highway Trust Fund -- Right? You DO KNOW the Indian Nations got screwed by a Fed Trust Fund right?

So why do you think it's so funny?

What is the "source" of your claims?

I GAVE YOU THE FUCKING SOURCE IN THE LINK.. Go back and find it. Right out of Page 12 of most EVERY SSAdmin annual report. It's in the "fine print". After all the 10 pages of happy BS fiction about the phony surplus accounting. Those words I'm putting in front of you mean -- there is NOTHING OF VALUE LEFT in the SS Trust Fund. Nothing but the whims of Congress and fucking MOUNTAINLOAD of existing debt.

Funny that 2 -- will ya??

If a registered company on the NY Stock Exchange pulled that Bullshit accounting trick in their yearly report, the entire Executive staff would be in jail..

It's a fucking loan! Don't you get that? Government pays interest on the loan. Government pays interest to China and other holders of U.S. debt.

What interest rate do the trust funds' assets earn?

Nothing of value was ever PUT into the SS Trust Fund. If the Congress had been honest about it -- they would have taken the SS Surplus and purchased EXISTING bonds on the open market. Thus PUTTING something of value into the TFund. And relieving some debt. But they used the surplus to HIDE debt. Debt that was never covered. So the initial money is GONE.

2nd theft was KNOWING decades in advance that SS was gonna run deficits. And at the times of those deficits, NEW debt would have to be issued to cover the shortfalls. So with nothing of value in the TF to make checks with -- NEW taxpayers and their kids will have to pony up to pay for the money that was STOLEN from their parents.

If they had "INVESTED" in REAL bonds, Those bonds would have been booked ONCE. Held their initial value and interest, and could be SOLD today ON THE MARKET to raise real cash for the SS deficit. But -- they scammed you.. TWICE....

SSA says so.. Pg 12 of the link I gave you.. CBO agrees.. You "need to read the prospectus carefully" for everything you "invest" in..

Please repost the link.

Private pensions invest in these securities and no one complains. The point that these securities aren't marketable is a red-herring. They have a put option in them. Making a putable bond marketable is done only by a sucker. Who would we sell the bond to if the issuer couldn't repay it? Today the system has about a dime of assets for every dollar of unfunded obligation, and you are worried about the dime?

The links are at post #34.. Bonds were NEVER PURCHASED.. There is nothing to "put" or to shove. The quotes from SSA are REAL.. There is NOTHING OF VALUE in the Trust Fund to pay bills with. All that phoney "interest" is reincorporated into NEW debt principal. It's a book-keeping sham.

For every current "SS deficit" dollar -- FUTURE taxpayers are paying double interest and principle on the stolen surplus.

 

[JoeTheEconomist]

What is the "source" of your claims?

I GAVE YOU THE FUCKING SOURCE IN THE LINK.. Go back and find it. Right out of Page 12 of most EVERY SSAdmin annual report. It's in the "fine print". After all the 10 pages of happy BS fiction about the phony surplus accounting. Those words I'm putting in front of you mean -- there is NOTHING OF VALUE LEFT in the SS Trust Fund. Nothing but the whims of Congress and fucking MOUNTAINLOAD of existing debt.

Funny that 2 -- will ya??

If a registered company on the NY Stock Exchange pulled that Bullshit accounting trick in their yearly report, the entire Executive staff would be in jail..

It's a fucking loan! Don't you get that? Government pays interest on the loan. Government pays interest to China and other holders of U.S. debt.

What interest rate do the trust funds' assets earn?

Nothing of value was ever PUT into the SS Trust Fund. If the Congress had been honest about it -- they would have taken the SS Surplus and purchased EXISTING bonds on the open market. Thus PUTTING something of value into the TFund. And relieving some debt. But they used the surplus to HIDE debt. Debt that was never covered. So the initial money is GONE.

2nd theft was KNOWING decades in advance that SS was gonna run deficits. And at the times of those deficits, NEW debt would have to be issued to cover the shortfalls. So with nothing of value in the TF to make checks with -- NEW taxpayers and their kids will have to pony up to pay for the money that was STOLEN from their parents.

If they had "INVESTED" in REAL bonds, Those bonds would have been booked ONCE. Held their initial value and interest, and could be SOLD today ON THE MARKET to raise real cash for the SS deficit. But -- they scammed you.. TWICE....

SSA says so.. Pg 12 of the link I gave you.. CBO agrees.. You "need to read the prospectus carefully" for everything you "invest" in..

Please repost the link.

Private pensions invest in these securities and no one complains. The point that these securities aren't marketable is a red-herring. They have a put option in them. Making a putable bond marketable is done only by a sucker. Who would we sell the bond to if the issuer couldn't repay it? Today the system has about a dime of assets for every dollar of unfunded obligation, and you are worried about the dime?

The links are at post #34.. Bonds were NEVER PURCHASED.. There is nothing to "put" or to shove. The quotes from SSA are REAL.. There is NOTHING OF VALUE in the Trust Fund to pay bills with. All that phoney "interest" is reincorporated into NEW debt principal. It's a book-keeping sham.

For every current "SS deficit" dollar -- FUTURE taxpayers are paying double interest and principle on the stolen surplus.

"Neither the redemption of trust fund bonds, nor interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public."

It is a truly stupid statement as the following adaptation will display :

"Neither the redemption of bonds held by China, nor interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public."

I think it is a clip that deals with Trust Funds where the obligations are government obligations. Social Security isn't.

 

[Avatar4321]

Why would the need to campaign on destroying it? Democrats destroyed it decades ago. Anyone who seriously thinks it will be around for another generation is beyond stupid

 

[jc456]

Not a single candidate in 2016 campaigned on a promise to repeal and replace Social Security or Medicare. Anyone who did would have been soundly defeated. Indeed, unlike the Republican opponents he beat, Donald Trump promised not to touch Social Security, Medicare, or Medicaid. But now that the Republicans will soon be in charge of all branches of government, destroying Social Security and Medicare is on the top of their agenda.

Two days after the election, Paul Ryan said, “With a unified Republican government, we can actually get things done.” One of those things is ending Medicare as we know it, as I and others have spotlighted. It turns out that Social Security is in the Republicans’ cross hairs, as well. This is not a surprise. Ending Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid is Republican-elite orthodoxy.

What is surprising is that the Republican establishment is so eager, it can’t wait to unveil its plans. In some ways, you can’t blame the Republican elites. They have been waiting a long time.

In the 1936 election campaign, repealing and replacing Social Security was the Republican battle cry. That year, the Republican presidential standard bearer, Alf Landon, claimed, “To get a workable old age pension plan we must repeal [Social Security].” What did he and his fellow Republicans want to replace it with? Instead of Social Security’s pension plan, which replaces wages so that people can retire with dignity and maintain their standard of living as they age, the Republicans proposed paying all seniors an identical subsistence-level amount.

Now, just before Congress left town, the powerful Chairman of the Social Security Subcommittee of the House Ways and Means Committee unveiled a proposal that would radically transform Social Security. It takes a long time to phase in, but when it does, what would Social Security provide? An essentially flat, subsistence level benefit, independent of how much a worker contributed, just as the 1936 Republican Party proposed.

Unlike 1936, when straightforward repeal was possible, because Social Security hadn’t yet begun, today it has been around for over eighty years. So, to get back to what the Republicans wanted then and now, you have to slash benefits – and the Republican plan does so with gusto.

Much More: No One Voted to Destroy Social Security

People of all ages should fight this - because it would affect ALL of us - young and old.

Was it on the ballot?

 

[sealybobo]

Not a single candidate in 2016 campaigned on a promise to repeal and replace Social Security or Medicare. Anyone who did would have been soundly defeated. Indeed, unlike the Republican opponents he beat, Donald Trump promised not to touch Social Security, Medicare, or Medicaid. But now that the Republicans will soon be in charge of all branches of government, destroying Social Security and Medicare is on the top of their agenda.

Two days after the election, Paul Ryan said, “With a unified Republican government, we can actually get things done.” One of those things is ending Medicare as we know it, as I and others have spotlighted. It turns out that Social Security is in the Republicans’ cross hairs, as well. This is not a surprise. Ending Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid is Republican-elite orthodoxy.

What is surprising is that the Republican establishment is so eager, it can’t wait to unveil its plans. In some ways, you can’t blame the Republican elites. They have been waiting a long time.

In the 1936 election campaign, repealing and replacing Social Security was the Republican battle cry. That year, the Republican presidential standard bearer, Alf Landon, claimed, “To get a workable old age pension plan we must repeal [Social Security].” What did he and his fellow Republicans want to replace it with? Instead of Social Security’s pension plan, which replaces wages so that people can retire with dignity and maintain their standard of living as they age, the Republicans proposed paying all seniors an identical subsistence-level amount.

Now, just before Congress left town, the powerful Chairman of the Social Security Subcommittee of the House Ways and Means Committee unveiled a proposal that would radically transform Social Security. It takes a long time to phase in, but when it does, what would Social Security provide? An essentially flat, subsistence level benefit, independent of how much a worker contributed, just as the 1936 Republican Party proposed.

Unlike 1936, when straightforward repeal was possible, because Social Security hadn’t yet begun, today it has been around for over eighty years. So, to get back to what the Republicans wanted then and now, you have to slash benefits – and the Republican plan does so with gusto.

Much More: No One Voted to Destroy Social Security

People of all ages should fight this - because it would affect ALL of us - young and old.

We warned them. They can't say we didn't warn them. They didn't believe but to be honest the American people will not only take the cuts theyll blame liberals.

The American people have been sleeping and are controlled by the corporate media. Not only that they think it's liberal

 

[WillReadmore]

Why would the need to campaign on destroying it? Democrats destroyed it decades ago. Anyone who seriously thinks it will be around for another generation is beyond stupid

Try running on that platform!!

There are many ways to improve SS solvency. All we need to do is use a little bit of several of those, thus resulting in little impact to any specific interest group.

Plus, insolvency is way far enough off to do something about it, and nobody has presented a workable/acceptable alternative, plus a plan as to how to get there.

So, once again, just go ahead and try running on a "cut SS" platform.

 

[jc456]

More fake news