Nobody doubts the M4 is an assault weapon. Are there any material differences between an M4 and an AR15?

[Flash]

This GOTCHA attempt is so lame, we need to call in a veterinarian and have it put down.

It's an honest question. All I want is an honest answer.

Lots of people doubt its an assault rifle so the entire thread is pointless.

There are always people who live in their own little world, but if disagree with our military's definition, you're pretty much an idiot.

Like you who thinks that it's soooooo easy to modify an AR 15 into a fully automatic weapon even though no one ever seems to use modified AR 15s to commit crimes

Perhaps it would be beyond your ability to fabricate one small part, and purchase the rest. That wouldn't be a big hurdle for many.

Then tell me why we don't see people using modified Ar 15s to commit crimes.

You say all this shit but you have no proof that people are actually modifying their ARs

I never said they do, even though I believe some do. I just said it was possible, and not that hard to do.

Like I said if it was as easy as you say that we would see criminals , especially gangs, use them and it just doesn't happen.

Lots of things are possible but aren't probable

BUT ALL YOU NEED IS A FILE AND A PIECE OF STEEL CMON MAN ITS SO EASY

I never said just a file and piece of steel, but I get your point. I never explicitly said it would also require some sort of easily built jig and some sort of easily built bracket to hold the grinder steady. I regularly use those types of things, and don't see them as anything other than just normal use of the tool. I still stand by my claim that it is possible to cut a few non-complex notches out of a 1/2 by 3/4 by 1 1/4 inch piece of steel with nothing more than a grinder, a vice, and perhaps a file to smooth up the rough cuts, and a cheap set of Harbor Freight calipers to check your work. Oh look, I added a file and a way of measuring. I didn't mention a pencil to mark where to cut either. Does that mean my claim that a DIAS is easily built is a lie?

Make one. Show us how easy it is.

Hop to it.

Making one would put me in prison. I said I could show how to make one. but I want to make sure the other questions about the ease of conversion are answered first.

Talking to someone about it is Conspiracy to Commit.

Conversion isn't easy. I have built them legally, I had a full machine shop at my beck and call.

No . Talking about it is no conspiracy. There is no intent to build one. Yes, it is easy. Are you saying you aren't capable of swapping a few easily bought parts?

Not conspiracy. Solicitation.

"A person is guilty of solicitation to commit a crime if, with the purpose of promoting or facilitating its commission, he commands, encourages or requests another person to engage in specific conduct which would constitute such crime..."

You're encouraging people to break the law. Tsk, tsk.

Several times I said conversion was illegal and would put you in prison for a long time. I've specifically said I don't advise it. This thread is about why most people don't do it. The gun nut mantra is that crooks don't obey laws anyway, so why don't more crooks convert their AR15s. Is it because it is too complicated? Is there some secret procedure that they can't figure out?

Aside from difficulty and expense or trouble, full auto or burst capability is only an improvement in rare and unlikely circumstances even for criminals. Certainly not worth the risk of massive additional prison time for essentially no gain and for simple possession rather than actual use in a possibly profitable crime. Criminals aren't necessarily stupid.

Criminals aren't necessarily stupid, but gun nuts claim that criminals don't care about the law. Gun laws only limit legal users is the often made claim. Are you gonna change your mind now?

Not at all, what I wrote is not in conflict with that claim. You don't have to care about the law to understand cation or to want possible gain to outweigh the risk. My point is that having full auto weapons is simply of no great importance to the vast majority of gun owners. Few-criminal or otherwise-would consider it worth the trouble expense or risk. There is almost nothing that a full auto weapon will do that a simi-auto won't do just as well so why bother?

Bullshit. Everybody, especially gun nuts would love to have a fully automatic rifle. I've paid my money to shoot one at a gun show, just like thousands of others have. Criminals don't care about what is legal, isn't that what NRA types say every day? If they were legal, I would have one, and you probably would too. They are FUN!!

You're dreaming and not paying attention. The M-16 A-1 was issued to me and served as my primary weapon throughout my tour of duty in Vietnam. I was also issued M-60's and M-2 50 cal. BMGs at times. I qualified "expert" with the M-16. I am more than a little familiar with automatic weapons as well as most other weapon types. Any one who knows me considers me the proto-typical gun nut. I have no desire to own a full-auto weapon. The sad truth is ammo is expensive and can become hard to find at any price, I could not afford the care and feeding of a full auto weapon and still shoot it enough to shoot it as well as I would like. Besides if there is ever a time I would need a full auto weapon I feel there will be unneeded ones lying around.

Like you I am Vietnam Veteran with decades of experience shooting M-16s and ARs.

I own a Class III M-16. I bought it in the 1970s. I paid $379 plus the $200 tax for it. That was a lot of money back then but it is worth about $25K now.

The novelty of shooting F-A wore off a long time ago. I don't even have the Colt Model 601 in the original configuration. All I really use is the stripped lower with more modern components. .The original upper and lower components are stored safely away.

During the times when ammo was cheap I would occasionally take it out and bast away for a few mag dumps. I wore out a couple of barrels doing that. I have a great ammo fort but even now knowing that the replacement cost of every round is close to a dollar I am not shooting it.

F-A is fine for suppressive fire. As you know in Vietnam we very seldom got a clear view of the little SOBs so the "spray and pray" method was used on F-A. However, in any kind of civilian self defense or SHTF I would never use F-A. You can eat up ammo at an alarming rate with F-A.

My son was a Cav Scout in Iraq. Saw combat. He carried a M-4. He told me that he never shot his M-4 on burst. Only on semi.

 

[2aguy]

This GOTCHA attempt is so lame, we need to call in a veterinarian and have it put down.

It's an honest question. All I want is an honest answer.

Lots of people doubt its an assault rifle so the entire thread is pointless.

There are always people who live in their own little world, but if disagree with our military's definition, you're pretty much an idiot.

Like you who thinks that it's soooooo easy to modify an AR 15 into a fully automatic weapon even though no one ever seems to use modified AR 15s to commit crimes

Perhaps it would be beyond your ability to fabricate one small part, and purchase the rest. That wouldn't be a big hurdle for many.

Then tell me why we don't see people using modified Ar 15s to commit crimes.

You say all this shit but you have no proof that people are actually modifying their ARs

I never said they do, even though I believe some do. I just said it was possible, and not that hard to do.

Like I said if it was as easy as you say that we would see criminals , especially gangs, use them and it just doesn't happen.

Lots of things are possible but aren't probable

BUT ALL YOU NEED IS A FILE AND A PIECE OF STEEL CMON MAN ITS SO EASY

I never said just a file and piece of steel, but I get your point. I never explicitly said it would also require some sort of easily built jig and some sort of easily built bracket to hold the grinder steady. I regularly use those types of things, and don't see them as anything other than just normal use of the tool. I still stand by my claim that it is possible to cut a few non-complex notches out of a 1/2 by 3/4 by 1 1/4 inch piece of steel with nothing more than a grinder, a vice, and perhaps a file to smooth up the rough cuts, and a cheap set of Harbor Freight calipers to check your work. Oh look, I added a file and a way of measuring. I didn't mention a pencil to mark where to cut either. Does that mean my claim that a DIAS is easily built is a lie?

Make one. Show us how easy it is.

Hop to it.

Making one would put me in prison. I said I could show how to make one. but I want to make sure the other questions about the ease of conversion are answered first.

Talking to someone about it is Conspiracy to Commit.

Conversion isn't easy. I have built them legally, I had a full machine shop at my beck and call.

No . Talking about it is no conspiracy. There is no intent to build one. Yes, it is easy. Are you saying you aren't capable of swapping a few easily bought parts?

Not conspiracy. Solicitation.

"A person is guilty of solicitation to commit a crime if, with the purpose of promoting or facilitating its commission, he commands, encourages or requests another person to engage in specific conduct which would constitute such crime..."

You're encouraging people to break the law. Tsk, tsk.

Several times I said conversion was illegal and would put you in prison for a long time. I've specifically said I don't advise it. This thread is about why most people don't do it. The gun nut mantra is that crooks don't obey laws anyway, so why don't more crooks convert their AR15s. Is it because it is too complicated? Is there some secret procedure that they can't figure out?

Aside from difficulty and expense or trouble, full auto or burst capability is only an improvement in rare and unlikely circumstances even for criminals. Certainly not worth the risk of massive additional prison time for essentially no gain and for simple possession rather than actual use in a possibly profitable crime. Criminals aren't necessarily stupid.

Criminals aren't necessarily stupid, but gun nuts claim that criminals don't care about the law. Gun laws only limit legal users is the often made claim. Are you gonna change your mind now?

Not at all, what I wrote is not in conflict with that claim. You don't have to care about the law to understand cation or to want possible gain to outweigh the risk. My point is that having full auto weapons is simply of no great importance to the vast majority of gun owners. Few-criminal or otherwise-would consider it worth the trouble expense or risk. There is almost nothing that a full auto weapon will do that a simi-auto won't do just as well so why bother?

Bullshit. Everybody, especially gun nuts would love to have a fully automatic rifle. I've paid my money to shoot one at a gun show, just like thousands of others have. Criminals don't care about what is legal, isn't that what NRA types say every day? If they were legal, I would have one, and you probably would too. They are FUN!!

Like all anti-gun extremists, you don't know anything about gun owners...... you hate them for owning guns and you have to make up things about them to justify your hatred of them.

I have no interest in owning or shooting automatic weapons or guns in general....my focus is in keeping asshats like you from taking guns away from Americans...

Criminals in the U.S. use guns that they can conceal...that they can hide in cars, that they can hide in their baby momma's purses when the police show up....

Drug Cartels, and the Drug gangs in Europe like to use fully automatic military rifles.......the Drug cartels get their guns from the Mexican military who gives them the guns supplied to them by the U.S. military, they also get them from South American militaries, China, Europe.....and now some of the Cartel killers are trained Mexican military who take their military weapons with them when they join the cartels.......

Different criminal cultures use different types of weapons........

 

[2aguy]

This GOTCHA attempt is so lame, we need to call in a veterinarian and have it put down.

It's an honest question. All I want is an honest answer.

Lots of people doubt its an assault rifle so the entire thread is pointless.

There are always people who live in their own little world, but if disagree with our military's definition, you're pretty much an idiot.

Like you who thinks that it's soooooo easy to modify an AR 15 into a fully automatic weapon even though no one ever seems to use modified AR 15s to commit crimes

Perhaps it would be beyond your ability to fabricate one small part, and purchase the rest. That wouldn't be a big hurdle for many.

Then tell me why we don't see people using modified Ar 15s to commit crimes.

You say all this shit but you have no proof that people are actually modifying their ARs

I never said they do, even though I believe some do. I just said it was possible, and not that hard to do.

Like I said if it was as easy as you say that we would see criminals , especially gangs, use them and it just doesn't happen.

Lots of things are possible but aren't probable

BUT ALL YOU NEED IS A FILE AND A PIECE OF STEEL CMON MAN ITS SO EASY

I never said just a file and piece of steel, but I get your point. I never explicitly said it would also require some sort of easily built jig and some sort of easily built bracket to hold the grinder steady. I regularly use those types of things, and don't see them as anything other than just normal use of the tool. I still stand by my claim that it is possible to cut a few non-complex notches out of a 1/2 by 3/4 by 1 1/4 inch piece of steel with nothing more than a grinder, a vice, and perhaps a file to smooth up the rough cuts, and a cheap set of Harbor Freight calipers to check your work. Oh look, I added a file and a way of measuring. I didn't mention a pencil to mark where to cut either. Does that mean my claim that a DIAS is easily built is a lie?

Make one. Show us how easy it is.

Hop to it.

Making one would put me in prison. I said I could show how to make one. but I want to make sure the other questions about the ease of conversion are answered first.

Talking to someone about it is Conspiracy to Commit.

Conversion isn't easy. I have built them legally, I had a full machine shop at my beck and call.

No . Talking about it is no conspiracy. There is no intent to build one. Yes, it is easy. Are you saying you aren't capable of swapping a few easily bought parts?

Not conspiracy. Solicitation.

"A person is guilty of solicitation to commit a crime if, with the purpose of promoting or facilitating its commission, he commands, encourages or requests another person to engage in specific conduct which would constitute such crime..."

You're encouraging people to break the law. Tsk, tsk.

Several times I said conversion was illegal and would put you in prison for a long time. I've specifically said I don't advise it. This thread is about why most people don't do it. The gun nut mantra is that crooks don't obey laws anyway, so why don't more crooks convert their AR15s. Is it because it is too complicated? Is there some secret procedure that they can't figure out?

Crooks don't use AR-15 rifles in the US., that's why. They use handguns because they are easier to carry in public and hide in cars, and their baby momma's purses when the police show up.....

If the criminals wanted AR-15s or M4s or anything else, they would get them....

The criminals in Europe prefer to use fully automatic military rifles...mainly AK-47s...From France to Sweden this is the weapon of choice for 3rd world drug gangs in European countries...they also like to use hand grenades..

Do you think fully automatic military weapons are illegal in France and Sweden? Or how about hand grenades? Do you think they are illegal in France and Sweden.....

Why don't American criminals use AK-47s like the criminals in Europe...why don't they use grenades like the criminals in Europe?

Different preferences for different purposes....

The drug gangs in Mexico and South America use military rifles...because they fight actual battles against rival drug cartels, the Mexican drug police and the Mexican military.......they also use grenade launchers and rockets......

You don't understand this topic.....you should really do some research...

 

[2aguy]

This GOTCHA attempt is so lame, we need to call in a veterinarian and have it put down.

It's an honest question. All I want is an honest answer.

Lots of people doubt its an assault rifle so the entire thread is pointless.

There are always people who live in their own little world, but if disagree with our military's definition, you're pretty much an idiot.

Like you who thinks that it's soooooo easy to modify an AR 15 into a fully automatic weapon even though no one ever seems to use modified AR 15s to commit crimes

Perhaps it would be beyond your ability to fabricate one small part, and purchase the rest. That wouldn't be a big hurdle for many.

Then tell me why we don't see people using modified Ar 15s to commit crimes.

You say all this shit but you have no proof that people are actually modifying their ARs

I never said they do, even though I believe some do. I just said it was possible, and not that hard to do.

Like I said if it was as easy as you say that we would see criminals , especially gangs, use them and it just doesn't happen.

Lots of things are possible but aren't probable

BUT ALL YOU NEED IS A FILE AND A PIECE OF STEEL CMON MAN ITS SO EASY

I never said just a file and piece of steel, but I get your point. I never explicitly said it would also require some sort of easily built jig and some sort of easily built bracket to hold the grinder steady. I regularly use those types of things, and don't see them as anything other than just normal use of the tool. I still stand by my claim that it is possible to cut a few non-complex notches out of a 1/2 by 3/4 by 1 1/4 inch piece of steel with nothing more than a grinder, a vice, and perhaps a file to smooth up the rough cuts, and a cheap set of Harbor Freight calipers to check your work. Oh look, I added a file and a way of measuring. I didn't mention a pencil to mark where to cut either. Does that mean my claim that a DIAS is easily built is a lie?

Make one. Show us how easy it is.

Hop to it.

Making one would put me in prison. I said I could show how to make one. but I want to make sure the other questions about the ease of conversion are answered first.

Talking to someone about it is Conspiracy to Commit.

Conversion isn't easy. I have built them legally, I had a full machine shop at my beck and call.

No . Talking about it is no conspiracy. There is no intent to build one. Yes, it is easy. Are you saying you aren't capable of swapping a few easily bought parts?

Not conspiracy. Solicitation.

"A person is guilty of solicitation to commit a crime if, with the purpose of promoting or facilitating its commission, he commands, encourages or requests another person to engage in specific conduct which would constitute such crime..."

You're encouraging people to break the law. Tsk, tsk.

Several times I said conversion was illegal and would put you in prison for a long time. I've specifically said I don't advise it. This thread is about why most people don't do it. The gun nut mantra is that crooks don't obey laws anyway, so why don't more crooks convert their AR15s. Is it because it is too complicated? Is there some secret procedure that they can't figure out?

Aside from difficulty and expense or trouble, full auto or burst capability is only an improvement in rare and unlikely circumstances even for criminals. Certainly not worth the risk of massive additional prison time for essentially no gain and for simple possession rather than actual use in a possibly profitable crime. Criminals aren't necessarily stupid.

Criminals aren't necessarily stupid, but gun nuts claim that criminals don't care about the law. Gun laws only limit legal users is the often made claim. Are you gonna change your mind now?

If criminals wanted AR-15 rifles they would get AR-15 rifles...they don't care about them....they want concealable handguns......European criminals, Mexican drug cartels, Central and South American drug cartels want fully automatic military rifles as well as grenade launchers, .50 caliber rifles, and actual crew served machine guns....

 

[2aguy]

This GOTCHA attempt is so lame, we need to call in a veterinarian and have it put down.

It's an honest question. All I want is an honest answer.

Lots of people doubt its an assault rifle so the entire thread is pointless.

There are always people who live in their own little world, but if disagree with our military's definition, you're pretty much an idiot.

Like you who thinks that it's soooooo easy to modify an AR 15 into a fully automatic weapon even though no one ever seems to use modified AR 15s to commit crimes

Perhaps it would be beyond your ability to fabricate one small part, and purchase the rest. That wouldn't be a big hurdle for many.

Then tell me why we don't see people using modified Ar 15s to commit crimes.

You say all this shit but you have no proof that people are actually modifying their ARs

I never said they do, even though I believe some do. I just said it was possible, and not that hard to do.

Like I said if it was as easy as you say that we would see criminals , especially gangs, use them and it just doesn't happen.

Lots of things are possible but aren't probable

BUT ALL YOU NEED IS A FILE AND A PIECE OF STEEL CMON MAN ITS SO EASY

I never said just a file and piece of steel, but I get your point. I never explicitly said it would also require some sort of easily built jig and some sort of easily built bracket to hold the grinder steady. I regularly use those types of things, and don't see them as anything other than just normal use of the tool. I still stand by my claim that it is possible to cut a few non-complex notches out of a 1/2 by 3/4 by 1 1/4 inch piece of steel with nothing more than a grinder, a vice, and perhaps a file to smooth up the rough cuts, and a cheap set of Harbor Freight calipers to check your work. Oh look, I added a file and a way of measuring. I didn't mention a pencil to mark where to cut either. Does that mean my claim that a DIAS is easily built is a lie?

Make one. Show us how easy it is.

Hop to it.

Making one would put me in prison. I said I could show how to make one. but I want to make sure the other questions about the ease of conversion are answered first.

Talking to someone about it is Conspiracy to Commit.

Conversion isn't easy. I have built them legally, I had a full machine shop at my beck and call.

No . Talking about it is no conspiracy. There is no intent to build one. Yes, it is easy. Are you saying you aren't capable of swapping a few easily bought parts?

If you talk to someone about the procedure to modify a semi to a full auto firearm, THAT is indeed conspiracy to commit.

You should look up the ATF regulations. You'll get your dumbass arrested otherwise.

On second thought, don't look them up. We would all be better off if you were in jail.

So saying that a drop in auto sear is the only non off the shelf part needed to convert a gun is conspiracy? Really? Even beyond that, you think saying it can be built with a grinder is conspiracy?

No, talking about the methods to make the drop in auto sear work, IS.

Oh, I get it. Saying you need a fully equipped machine shop is not conspiracy, but saying using common techniques with a grinder will do those types of things is conspiracy. You bet.

No, dumbass, just dropping in a drop in auto sear won't make the weapon function. Talking about what needs to be done to MAKE it work is where the crime occurs. Stop spewing about subject matter you are clueless about.

The internet is full of sites that tell what it takes to make the conversion. They all say what parts need to be changed. No state secrets involved there. All the changes they list are easy. The only hard part is acquiring a $20,000 DIAS. Agreed?

Turning Your AR-15 into an M-16

Ever wanted to know how am M-16 really works? Well, for legal purposes, this article is for educational information only.

www.recoilweb.com

Nope, acquiring the DIAS is easy. Just expensive. The rest of it is the hard part.

Of course, if you're smart, you just buy a weapon that has already been converted from a dealer.

Only morons, like you, do it the hard way.

Perhaps changing the bolt, hammer, and selector is more than you are capable of, but most wouldn't see it as a problem. Of course, it would be as illegal as hell, but the actual swap wouldn't be a big problem. I said from the first that the conversion would put you in the pen for a long time, and I don't advise that, but I'm only considering how hard the actual conversion is.

There's these things called tolerances....off by two thousandths, and you have a bomb next to your face. Any idiot can swap parts in and out, making sure they are the RIGHT parts is the trick.

The right parts are an M16 hammer, bolt, and selector. All standardized and easily delivered to your front door. You have to time a DIAS for it to work right. that's where those thousandths matter. This isn't verboten information either.
View attachment 494769

Not nearly as cut and dried as you think. I have been shooting machine guns for decades. I own several legal ones,

This GOTCHA attempt is so lame, we need to call in a veterinarian and have it put down.

It's an honest question. All I want is an honest answer.

Lots of people doubt its an assault rifle so the entire thread is pointless.

There are always people who live in their own little world, but if disagree with our military's definition, you're pretty much an idiot.

Like you who thinks that it's soooooo easy to modify an AR 15 into a fully automatic weapon even though no one ever seems to use modified AR 15s to commit crimes

Perhaps it would be beyond your ability to fabricate one small part, and purchase the rest. That wouldn't be a big hurdle for many.

Then tell me why we don't see people using modified Ar 15s to commit crimes.

You say all this shit but you have no proof that people are actually modifying their ARs

I never said they do, even though I believe some do. I just said it was possible, and not that hard to do.

Like I said if it was as easy as you say that we would see criminals , especially gangs, use them and it just doesn't happen.

Lots of things are possible but aren't probable

BUT ALL YOU NEED IS A FILE AND A PIECE OF STEEL CMON MAN ITS SO EASY

I never said just a file and piece of steel, but I get your point. I never explicitly said it would also require some sort of easily built jig and some sort of easily built bracket to hold the grinder steady. I regularly use those types of things, and don't see them as anything other than just normal use of the tool. I still stand by my claim that it is possible to cut a few non-complex notches out of a 1/2 by 3/4 by 1 1/4 inch piece of steel with nothing more than a grinder, a vice, and perhaps a file to smooth up the rough cuts, and a cheap set of Harbor Freight calipers to check your work. Oh look, I added a file and a way of measuring. I didn't mention a pencil to mark where to cut either. Does that mean my claim that a DIAS is easily built is a lie?

Make one. Show us how easy it is.

Hop to it.

Making one would put me in prison. I said I could show how to make one. but I want to make sure the other questions about the ease of conversion are answered first.

Talking to someone about it is Conspiracy to Commit.

Conversion isn't easy. I have built them legally, I had a full machine shop at my beck and call.

No . Talking about it is no conspiracy. There is no intent to build one. Yes, it is easy. Are you saying you aren't capable of swapping a few easily bought parts?

If you talk to someone about the procedure to modify a semi to a full auto firearm, THAT is indeed conspiracy to commit.

You should look up the ATF regulations. You'll get your dumbass arrested otherwise.

On second thought, don't look them up. We would all be better off if you were in jail.

So saying that a drop in auto sear is the only non off the shelf part needed to convert a gun is conspiracy? Really? Even beyond that, you think saying it can be built with a grinder is conspiracy?

No, talking about the methods to make the drop in auto sear work, IS.

Oh, I get it. Saying you need a fully equipped machine shop is not conspiracy, but saying using common techniques with a grinder will do those types of things is conspiracy. You bet.

No, dumbass, just dropping in a drop in auto sear won't make the weapon function. Talking about what needs to be done to MAKE it work is where the crime occurs. Stop spewing about subject matter you are clueless about.

The internet is full of sites that tell what it takes to make the conversion. They all say what parts need to be changed. No state secrets involved there. All the changes they list are easy. The only hard part is acquiring a $20,000 DIAS. Agreed?

Turning Your AR-15 into an M-16

Ever wanted to know how am M-16 really works? Well, for legal purposes, this article is for educational information only.

www.recoilweb.com

Nope, acquiring the DIAS is easy. Just expensive. The rest of it is the hard part.

Of course, if you're smart, you just buy a weapon that has already been converted from a dealer.

Only morons, like you, do it the hard way.

Perhaps changing the bolt, hammer, and selector is more than you are capable of, but most wouldn't see it as a problem. Of course, it would be as illegal as hell, but the actual swap wouldn't be a big problem. I said from the first that the conversion would put you in the pen for a long time, and I don't advise that, but I'm only considering how hard the actual conversion is.

There's these things called tolerances....off by two thousandths, and you have a bomb next to your face. Any idiot can swap parts in and out, making sure they are the RIGHT parts is the trick.

The right parts are an M16 hammer, bolt, and selector. All standardized and easily delivered to your front door. You have to time a DIAS for it to work right. that's where those thousandths matter. This isn't verboten information either.
View attachment 494769

Yup, put the wrong parts in and you have a bomb. Enjoy. BTW, MOST of the M-16 parts that are for sale are rejects. Just a heads up.

Well, no. Depending on which manufacturer you choose, many new bolts bought for an AR are interchangeable with an M16. They even advertise them as M16/AR15 bolts
View attachment 494782

what are you going to say after the next mass shooting and they use a full auto and the shooter says bulldog on the USMB forum taught me how to convert my AR to full auto??

I'm not worried about that happening. If someone is going to convert an AR15 to full auto, I haven't given as much information as is available in much greater detail in 10 minutes of internet use. I'm just wondering why more crooks don't do it. It's not because it's a hard thing to do.

They want concealable handguns......not rifles, which is why a ban on rifles is stupid....and doesn't do anything ......

 

[9thIDdoc]

This GOTCHA attempt is so lame, we need to call in a veterinarian and have it put down.

It's an honest question. All I want is an honest answer.

Lots of people doubt its an assault rifle so the entire thread is pointless.

There are always people who live in their own little world, but if disagree with our military's definition, you're pretty much an idiot.

Like you who thinks that it's soooooo easy to modify an AR 15 into a fully automatic weapon even though no one ever seems to use modified AR 15s to commit crimes

Perhaps it would be beyond your ability to fabricate one small part, and purchase the rest. That wouldn't be a big hurdle for many.

Then tell me why we don't see people using modified Ar 15s to commit crimes.

You say all this shit but you have no proof that people are actually modifying their ARs

I never said they do, even though I believe some do. I just said it was possible, and not that hard to do.

Like I said if it was as easy as you say that we would see criminals , especially gangs, use them and it just doesn't happen.

Lots of things are possible but aren't probable

BUT ALL YOU NEED IS A FILE AND A PIECE OF STEEL CMON MAN ITS SO EASY

I never said just a file and piece of steel, but I get your point. I never explicitly said it would also require some sort of easily built jig and some sort of easily built bracket to hold the grinder steady. I regularly use those types of things, and don't see them as anything other than just normal use of the tool. I still stand by my claim that it is possible to cut a few non-complex notches out of a 1/2 by 3/4 by 1 1/4 inch piece of steel with nothing more than a grinder, a vice, and perhaps a file to smooth up the rough cuts, and a cheap set of Harbor Freight calipers to check your work. Oh look, I added a file and a way of measuring. I didn't mention a pencil to mark where to cut either. Does that mean my claim that a DIAS is easily built is a lie?

Make one. Show us how easy it is.

Hop to it.

Making one would put me in prison. I said I could show how to make one. but I want to make sure the other questions about the ease of conversion are answered first.

Talking to someone about it is Conspiracy to Commit.

Conversion isn't easy. I have built them legally, I had a full machine shop at my beck and call.

No . Talking about it is no conspiracy. There is no intent to build one. Yes, it is easy. Are you saying you aren't capable of swapping a few easily bought parts?

Not conspiracy. Solicitation.

"A person is guilty of solicitation to commit a crime if, with the purpose of promoting or facilitating its commission, he commands, encourages or requests another person to engage in specific conduct which would constitute such crime..."

You're encouraging people to break the law. Tsk, tsk.

Several times I said conversion was illegal and would put you in prison for a long time. I've specifically said I don't advise it. This thread is about why most people don't do it. The gun nut mantra is that crooks don't obey laws anyway, so why don't more crooks convert their AR15s. Is it because it is too complicated? Is there some secret procedure that they can't figure out?

Aside from difficulty and expense or trouble, full auto or burst capability is only an improvement in rare and unlikely circumstances even for criminals. Certainly not worth the risk of massive additional prison time for essentially no gain and for simple possession rather than actual use in a possibly profitable crime. Criminals aren't necessarily stupid.

Criminals aren't necessarily stupid, but gun nuts claim that criminals don't care about the law. Gun laws only limit legal users is the often made claim. Are you gonna change your mind now?

Not at all, what I wrote is not in conflict with that claim. You don't have to care about the law to understand cation or to want possible gain to outweigh the risk. My point is that having full auto weapons is simply of no great importance to the vast majority of gun owners. Few-criminal or otherwise-would consider it worth the trouble expense or risk. There is almost nothing that a full auto weapon will do that a simi-auto won't do just as well so why bother?

Bullshit. Everybody, especially gun nuts would love to have a fully automatic rifle. I've paid my money to shoot one at a gun show, just like thousands of others have. Criminals don't care about what is legal, isn't that what NRA types say every day? If they were legal, I would have one, and you probably would too. They are FUN!!

You're dreaming and not paying attention. The M-16 A-1 was issued to me and served as my primary weapon throughout my tour of duty in Vietnam. I was also issued M-60's and M-2 50 cal. BMGs at times. I qualified "expert" with the M-16. I am more than a little familiar with automatic weapons as well as most other weapon types. Any one who knows me considers me the proto-typical gun nut. I have no desire to own a full-auto weapon. The sad truth is ammo is expensive and can become hard to find at any price, I could not afford the care and feeding of a full auto weapon and still shoot it enough to shoot it as well as I would like. Besides if there is ever a time I would need a full auto weapon I feel there will be unneeded ones lying around.

But you could easily swap the bolt, hammer, and selector, couldn't you?

Don't know or care. I could easily set myself on fire but have never had the urge to do so.

 

[BULLDOG]

This GOTCHA attempt is so lame, we need to call in a veterinarian and have it put down.

It's an honest question. All I want is an honest answer.

Lots of people doubt its an assault rifle so the entire thread is pointless.

There are always people who live in their own little world, but if disagree with our military's definition, you're pretty much an idiot.

Like you who thinks that it's soooooo easy to modify an AR 15 into a fully automatic weapon even though no one ever seems to use modified AR 15s to commit crimes

Perhaps it would be beyond your ability to fabricate one small part, and purchase the rest. That wouldn't be a big hurdle for many.

Then tell me why we don't see people using modified Ar 15s to commit crimes.

You say all this shit but you have no proof that people are actually modifying their ARs

I never said they do, even though I believe some do. I just said it was possible, and not that hard to do.

Like I said if it was as easy as you say that we would see criminals , especially gangs, use them and it just doesn't happen.

Lots of things are possible but aren't probable

BUT ALL YOU NEED IS A FILE AND A PIECE OF STEEL CMON MAN ITS SO EASY

I never said just a file and piece of steel, but I get your point. I never explicitly said it would also require some sort of easily built jig and some sort of easily built bracket to hold the grinder steady. I regularly use those types of things, and don't see them as anything other than just normal use of the tool. I still stand by my claim that it is possible to cut a few non-complex notches out of a 1/2 by 3/4 by 1 1/4 inch piece of steel with nothing more than a grinder, a vice, and perhaps a file to smooth up the rough cuts, and a cheap set of Harbor Freight calipers to check your work. Oh look, I added a file and a way of measuring. I didn't mention a pencil to mark where to cut either. Does that mean my claim that a DIAS is easily built is a lie?

Make one. Show us how easy it is.

Hop to it.

Making one would put me in prison. I said I could show how to make one. but I want to make sure the other questions about the ease of conversion are answered first.

Talking to someone about it is Conspiracy to Commit.

Conversion isn't easy. I have built them legally, I had a full machine shop at my beck and call.

No . Talking about it is no conspiracy. There is no intent to build one. Yes, it is easy. Are you saying you aren't capable of swapping a few easily bought parts?

Not conspiracy. Solicitation.

"A person is guilty of solicitation to commit a crime if, with the purpose of promoting or facilitating its commission, he commands, encourages or requests another person to engage in specific conduct which would constitute such crime..."

You're encouraging people to break the law. Tsk, tsk.

Several times I said conversion was illegal and would put you in prison for a long time. I've specifically said I don't advise it. This thread is about why most people don't do it. The gun nut mantra is that crooks don't obey laws anyway, so why don't more crooks convert their AR15s. Is it because it is too complicated? Is there some secret procedure that they can't figure out?

Crooks don't use AR-15 rifles in the US., that's why. They use handguns because they are easier to carry in public and hide in cars, and their baby momma's purses when the police show up.....

If the criminals wanted AR-15s or M4s or anything else, they would get them....

The criminals in Europe prefer to use fully automatic military rifles...mainly AK-47s...From France to Sweden this is the weapon of choice for 3rd world drug gangs in European countries...they also like to use hand grenades..

Do you think fully automatic military weapons are illegal in France and Sweden? Or how about hand grenades? Do you think they are illegal in France and Sweden.....

Why don't American criminals use AK-47s like the criminals in Europe...why don't they use grenades like the criminals in Europe?

Different preferences for different purposes....

The drug gangs in Mexico and South America use military rifles...because they fight actual battles against rival drug cartels, the Mexican drug police and the Mexican military.......they also use grenade launchers and rockets......

You don't understand this topic.....you should really do some research...

Interesting that you don't think anyone is interested in having a fully automatic weapon. We both know that if they suddenly became legal, they couldn't keep them on the shelves.

 

[daveman]

This GOTCHA attempt is so lame, we need to call in a veterinarian and have it put down.

It's an honest question. All I want is an honest answer.

Lots of people doubt its an assault rifle so the entire thread is pointless.

There are always people who live in their own little world, but if disagree with our military's definition, you're pretty much an idiot.

Like you who thinks that it's soooooo easy to modify an AR 15 into a fully automatic weapon even though no one ever seems to use modified AR 15s to commit crimes

Perhaps it would be beyond your ability to fabricate one small part, and purchase the rest. That wouldn't be a big hurdle for many.

Then tell me why we don't see people using modified Ar 15s to commit crimes.

You say all this shit but you have no proof that people are actually modifying their ARs

I never said they do, even though I believe some do. I just said it was possible, and not that hard to do.

Like I said if it was as easy as you say that we would see criminals , especially gangs, use them and it just doesn't happen.

Lots of things are possible but aren't probable

BUT ALL YOU NEED IS A FILE AND A PIECE OF STEEL CMON MAN ITS SO EASY

I never said just a file and piece of steel, but I get your point. I never explicitly said it would also require some sort of easily built jig and some sort of easily built bracket to hold the grinder steady. I regularly use those types of things, and don't see them as anything other than just normal use of the tool. I still stand by my claim that it is possible to cut a few non-complex notches out of a 1/2 by 3/4 by 1 1/4 inch piece of steel with nothing more than a grinder, a vice, and perhaps a file to smooth up the rough cuts, and a cheap set of Harbor Freight calipers to check your work. Oh look, I added a file and a way of measuring. I didn't mention a pencil to mark where to cut either. Does that mean my claim that a DIAS is easily built is a lie?

Make one. Show us how easy it is.

Hop to it.

Making one would put me in prison. I said I could show how to make one. but I want to make sure the other questions about the ease of conversion are answered first.

Talking to someone about it is Conspiracy to Commit.

Conversion isn't easy. I have built them legally, I had a full machine shop at my beck and call.

No . Talking about it is no conspiracy. There is no intent to build one. Yes, it is easy. Are you saying you aren't capable of swapping a few easily bought parts?

If you talk to someone about the procedure to modify a semi to a full auto firearm, THAT is indeed conspiracy to commit.

You should look up the ATF regulations. You'll get your dumbass arrested otherwise.

On second thought, don't look them up. We would all be better off if you were in jail.

So saying that a drop in auto sear is the only non off the shelf part needed to convert a gun is conspiracy? Really? Even beyond that, you think saying it can be built with a grinder is conspiracy?

No, talking about the methods to make the drop in auto sear work, IS.

Oh, I get it. Saying you need a fully equipped machine shop is not conspiracy, but saying using common techniques with a grinder will do those types of things is conspiracy. You bet.

No, dumbass, just dropping in a drop in auto sear won't make the weapon function. Talking about what needs to be done to MAKE it work is where the crime occurs. Stop spewing about subject matter you are clueless about.

The internet is full of sites that tell what it takes to make the conversion. They all say what parts need to be changed. No state secrets involved there. All the changes they list are easy. The only hard part is acquiring a $20,000 DIAS. Agreed?

Turning Your AR-15 into an M-16

Ever wanted to know how am M-16 really works? Well, for legal purposes, this article is for educational information only.

www.recoilweb.com

Nope, acquiring the DIAS is easy. Just expensive. The rest of it is the hard part.

Of course, if you're smart, you just buy a weapon that has already been converted from a dealer.

Only morons, like you, do it the hard way.

Perhaps changing the bolt, hammer, and selector is more than you are capable of, but most wouldn't see it as a problem. Of course, it would be as illegal as hell, but the actual swap wouldn't be a big problem. I said from the first that the conversion would put you in the pen for a long time, and I don't advise that, but I'm only considering how hard the actual conversion is.

Actually, you have advised and encouraged people to break the law.

You gotta point to the specific post where I did that. Discussing readily available information is not encouraging anything.

Post #597.
"Yes, it is easy. Are you saying you aren't capable of swapping a few easily bought parts?"

No different than saying to a guy in a bar, "Kicking that's dude's ass would be easy. Are you saying you can't do it?"

It's more like saying "You are bigger, stronger, and faster than that guy. If you don't want to kick his ass, I think that is a good choice, but don't tell me it's because you think you can't. I'm just asking the real reason why you don't want to."

Horseshit.

 

[BULLDOG]

This GOTCHA attempt is so lame, we need to call in a veterinarian and have it put down.

It's an honest question. All I want is an honest answer.

Lots of people doubt its an assault rifle so the entire thread is pointless.

There are always people who live in their own little world, but if disagree with our military's definition, you're pretty much an idiot.

Like you who thinks that it's soooooo easy to modify an AR 15 into a fully automatic weapon even though no one ever seems to use modified AR 15s to commit crimes

Perhaps it would be beyond your ability to fabricate one small part, and purchase the rest. That wouldn't be a big hurdle for many.

Then tell me why we don't see people using modified Ar 15s to commit crimes.

You say all this shit but you have no proof that people are actually modifying their ARs

I never said they do, even though I believe some do. I just said it was possible, and not that hard to do.

Like I said if it was as easy as you say that we would see criminals , especially gangs, use them and it just doesn't happen.

Lots of things are possible but aren't probable

BUT ALL YOU NEED IS A FILE AND A PIECE OF STEEL CMON MAN ITS SO EASY

I never said just a file and piece of steel, but I get your point. I never explicitly said it would also require some sort of easily built jig and some sort of easily built bracket to hold the grinder steady. I regularly use those types of things, and don't see them as anything other than just normal use of the tool. I still stand by my claim that it is possible to cut a few non-complex notches out of a 1/2 by 3/4 by 1 1/4 inch piece of steel with nothing more than a grinder, a vice, and perhaps a file to smooth up the rough cuts, and a cheap set of Harbor Freight calipers to check your work. Oh look, I added a file and a way of measuring. I didn't mention a pencil to mark where to cut either. Does that mean my claim that a DIAS is easily built is a lie?

Make one. Show us how easy it is.

Hop to it.

Making one would put me in prison. I said I could show how to make one. but I want to make sure the other questions about the ease of conversion are answered first.

Talking to someone about it is Conspiracy to Commit.

Conversion isn't easy. I have built them legally, I had a full machine shop at my beck and call.

No . Talking about it is no conspiracy. There is no intent to build one. Yes, it is easy. Are you saying you aren't capable of swapping a few easily bought parts?

Not conspiracy. Solicitation.

"A person is guilty of solicitation to commit a crime if, with the purpose of promoting or facilitating its commission, he commands, encourages or requests another person to engage in specific conduct which would constitute such crime..."

You're encouraging people to break the law. Tsk, tsk.

Several times I said conversion was illegal and would put you in prison for a long time. I've specifically said I don't advise it. This thread is about why most people don't do it. The gun nut mantra is that crooks don't obey laws anyway, so why don't more crooks convert their AR15s. Is it because it is too complicated? Is there some secret procedure that they can't figure out?

Aside from difficulty and expense or trouble, full auto or burst capability is only an improvement in rare and unlikely circumstances even for criminals. Certainly not worth the risk of massive additional prison time for essentially no gain and for simple possession rather than actual use in a possibly profitable crime. Criminals aren't necessarily stupid.

Criminals aren't necessarily stupid, but gun nuts claim that criminals don't care about the law. Gun laws only limit legal users is the often made claim. Are you gonna change your mind now?

Not at all, what I wrote is not in conflict with that claim. You don't have to care about the law to understand cation or to want possible gain to outweigh the risk. My point is that having full auto weapons is simply of no great importance to the vast majority of gun owners. Few-criminal or otherwise-would consider it worth the trouble expense or risk. There is almost nothing that a full auto weapon will do that a simi-auto won't do just as well so why bother?

Bullshit. Everybody, especially gun nuts would love to have a fully automatic rifle. I've paid my money to shoot one at a gun show, just like thousands of others have. Criminals don't care about what is legal, isn't that what NRA types say every day? If they were legal, I would have one, and you probably would too. They are FUN!!

You're dreaming and not paying attention. The M-16 A-1 was issued to me and served as my primary weapon throughout my tour of duty in Vietnam. I was also issued M-60's and M-2 50 cal. BMGs at times. I qualified "expert" with the M-16. I am more than a little familiar with automatic weapons as well as most other weapon types. Any one who knows me considers me the proto-typical gun nut. I have no desire to own a full-auto weapon. The sad truth is ammo is expensive and can become hard to find at any price, I could not afford the care and feeding of a full auto weapon and still shoot it enough to shoot it as well as I would like. Besides if there is ever a time I would need a full auto weapon I feel there will be unneeded ones lying around.

But you could easily swap the bolt, hammer, and selector, couldn't you?

Don't know or care. I could easily set myself on fire but have never had the urge to do so.

What a silly comparison. Setting yourself on fire is not the same as owning a fully automatic rifle. Whether you personally would want a fully auto rifle is not the point anyway. We all know many would want one.

 

[daveman]

This GOTCHA attempt is so lame, we need to call in a veterinarian and have it put down.

It's an honest question. All I want is an honest answer.

Lots of people doubt its an assault rifle so the entire thread is pointless.

There are always people who live in their own little world, but if disagree with our military's definition, you're pretty much an idiot.

Like you who thinks that it's soooooo easy to modify an AR 15 into a fully automatic weapon even though no one ever seems to use modified AR 15s to commit crimes

Perhaps it would be beyond your ability to fabricate one small part, and purchase the rest. That wouldn't be a big hurdle for many.

Then tell me why we don't see people using modified Ar 15s to commit crimes.

You say all this shit but you have no proof that people are actually modifying their ARs

I never said they do, even though I believe some do. I just said it was possible, and not that hard to do.

Like I said if it was as easy as you say that we would see criminals , especially gangs, use them and it just doesn't happen.

Lots of things are possible but aren't probable

BUT ALL YOU NEED IS A FILE AND A PIECE OF STEEL CMON MAN ITS SO EASY

I never said just a file and piece of steel, but I get your point. I never explicitly said it would also require some sort of easily built jig and some sort of easily built bracket to hold the grinder steady. I regularly use those types of things, and don't see them as anything other than just normal use of the tool. I still stand by my claim that it is possible to cut a few non-complex notches out of a 1/2 by 3/4 by 1 1/4 inch piece of steel with nothing more than a grinder, a vice, and perhaps a file to smooth up the rough cuts, and a cheap set of Harbor Freight calipers to check your work. Oh look, I added a file and a way of measuring. I didn't mention a pencil to mark where to cut either. Does that mean my claim that a DIAS is easily built is a lie?

Make one. Show us how easy it is.

Hop to it.

Making one would put me in prison. I said I could show how to make one. but I want to make sure the other questions about the ease of conversion are answered first.

Talking to someone about it is Conspiracy to Commit.

Conversion isn't easy. I have built them legally, I had a full machine shop at my beck and call.

No . Talking about it is no conspiracy. There is no intent to build one. Yes, it is easy. Are you saying you aren't capable of swapping a few easily bought parts?

Not conspiracy. Solicitation.

"A person is guilty of solicitation to commit a crime if, with the purpose of promoting or facilitating its commission, he commands, encourages or requests another person to engage in specific conduct which would constitute such crime..."

You're encouraging people to break the law. Tsk, tsk.

Several times I said conversion was illegal and would put you in prison for a long time. I've specifically said I don't advise it. This thread is about why most people don't do it. The gun nut mantra is that crooks don't obey laws anyway, so why don't more crooks convert their AR15s. Is it because it is too complicated? Is there some secret procedure that they can't figure out?

Aside from difficulty and expense or trouble, full auto or burst capability is only an improvement in rare and unlikely circumstances even for criminals. Certainly not worth the risk of massive additional prison time for essentially no gain and for simple possession rather than actual use in a possibly profitable crime. Criminals aren't necessarily stupid.

Criminals aren't necessarily stupid, but gun nuts claim that criminals don't care about the law. Gun laws only limit legal users is the often made claim. Are you gonna change your mind now?

Not at all, what I wrote is not in conflict with that claim. You don't have to care about the law to understand cation or to want possible gain to outweigh the risk. My point is that having full auto weapons is simply of no great importance to the vast majority of gun owners. Few-criminal or otherwise-would consider it worth the trouble expense or risk. There is almost nothing that a full auto weapon will do that a simi-auto won't do just as well so why bother?

Bullshit. Everybody, especially gun nuts would love to have a fully automatic rifle. I've paid my money to shoot one at a gun show, just like thousands of others have. Criminals don't care about what is legal, isn't that what NRA types say every day? If they were legal, I would have one, and you probably would too. They are FUN!!

You lying sack of shit, with ONE exception, they don't shoot guns at gunshows!

Name the exception.

You should google Knob Creek

That's the one exception. I have been there many times.

You claim to have been there. Describe it.

He's seen Knob Creek on video...when ABC News broadcast video of it claiming it was slaughter in Syria.

 

[daveman]

This GOTCHA attempt is so lame, we need to call in a veterinarian and have it put down.

It's an honest question. All I want is an honest answer.

Lots of people doubt its an assault rifle so the entire thread is pointless.

There are always people who live in their own little world, but if disagree with our military's definition, you're pretty much an idiot.

Like you who thinks that it's soooooo easy to modify an AR 15 into a fully automatic weapon even though no one ever seems to use modified AR 15s to commit crimes

Perhaps it would be beyond your ability to fabricate one small part, and purchase the rest. That wouldn't be a big hurdle for many.

Then tell me why we don't see people using modified Ar 15s to commit crimes.

You say all this shit but you have no proof that people are actually modifying their ARs

I never said they do, even though I believe some do. I just said it was possible, and not that hard to do.

Like I said if it was as easy as you say that we would see criminals , especially gangs, use them and it just doesn't happen.

Lots of things are possible but aren't probable

BUT ALL YOU NEED IS A FILE AND A PIECE OF STEEL CMON MAN ITS SO EASY

I never said just a file and piece of steel, but I get your point. I never explicitly said it would also require some sort of easily built jig and some sort of easily built bracket to hold the grinder steady. I regularly use those types of things, and don't see them as anything other than just normal use of the tool. I still stand by my claim that it is possible to cut a few non-complex notches out of a 1/2 by 3/4 by 1 1/4 inch piece of steel with nothing more than a grinder, a vice, and perhaps a file to smooth up the rough cuts, and a cheap set of Harbor Freight calipers to check your work. Oh look, I added a file and a way of measuring. I didn't mention a pencil to mark where to cut either. Does that mean my claim that a DIAS is easily built is a lie?

Make one. Show us how easy it is.

Hop to it.

Making one would put me in prison. I said I could show how to make one. but I want to make sure the other questions about the ease of conversion are answered first.

Talking to someone about it is Conspiracy to Commit.

Conversion isn't easy. I have built them legally, I had a full machine shop at my beck and call.

No . Talking about it is no conspiracy. There is no intent to build one. Yes, it is easy. Are you saying you aren't capable of swapping a few easily bought parts?

Not conspiracy. Solicitation.

"A person is guilty of solicitation to commit a crime if, with the purpose of promoting or facilitating its commission, he commands, encourages or requests another person to engage in specific conduct which would constitute such crime..."

You're encouraging people to break the law. Tsk, tsk.

Several times I said conversion was illegal and would put you in prison for a long time. I've specifically said I don't advise it. This thread is about why most people don't do it. The gun nut mantra is that crooks don't obey laws anyway, so why don't more crooks convert their AR15s. Is it because it is too complicated? Is there some secret procedure that they can't figure out?

Aside from difficulty and expense or trouble, full auto or burst capability is only an improvement in rare and unlikely circumstances even for criminals. Certainly not worth the risk of massive additional prison time for essentially no gain and for simple possession rather than actual use in a possibly profitable crime. Criminals aren't necessarily stupid.

Criminals aren't necessarily stupid, but gun nuts claim that criminals don't care about the law. Gun laws only limit legal users is the often made claim. Are you gonna change your mind now?

Not at all, what I wrote is not in conflict with that claim. You don't have to care about the law to understand cation or to want possible gain to outweigh the risk. My point is that having full auto weapons is simply of no great importance to the vast majority of gun owners. Few-criminal or otherwise-would consider it worth the trouble expense or risk. There is almost nothing that a full auto weapon will do that a simi-auto won't do just as well so why bother?

Bullshit. Everybody, especially gun nuts would love to have a fully automatic rifle. I've paid my money to shoot one at a gun show, just like thousands of others have. Criminals don't care about what is legal, isn't that what NRA types say every day? If they were legal, I would have one, and you probably would too. They are FUN!!

You're dreaming and not paying attention. The M-16 A-1 was issued to me and served as my primary weapon throughout my tour of duty in Vietnam. I was also issued M-60's and M-2 50 cal. BMGs at times. I qualified "expert" with the M-16. I am more than a little familiar with automatic weapons as well as most other weapon types. Any one who knows me considers me the proto-typical gun nut. I have no desire to own a full-auto weapon. The sad truth is ammo is expensive and can become hard to find at any price, I could not afford the care and feeding of a full auto weapon and still shoot it enough to shoot it as well as I would like. Besides if there is ever a time I would need a full auto weapon I feel there will be unneeded ones lying around.

But you could easily swap the bolt, hammer, and selector, couldn't you?

Don't know or care. I could easily set myself on fire but have never had the urge to do so.

What a silly comparison. Setting yourself on fire is not the same as owning a fully automatic rifle. Whether you personally would want a fully auto rifle is not the point anyway. We all know many would want one.

"We all know..."

Argumentum ad populum. Dismissed.

 

[9thIDdoc]

This GOTCHA attempt is so lame, we need to call in a veterinarian and have it put down.

It's an honest question. All I want is an honest answer.

Lots of people doubt its an assault rifle so the entire thread is pointless.

There are always people who live in their own little world, but if disagree with our military's definition, you're pretty much an idiot.

Like you who thinks that it's soooooo easy to modify an AR 15 into a fully automatic weapon even though no one ever seems to use modified AR 15s to commit crimes

Perhaps it would be beyond your ability to fabricate one small part, and purchase the rest. That wouldn't be a big hurdle for many.

Then tell me why we don't see people using modified Ar 15s to commit crimes.

You say all this shit but you have no proof that people are actually modifying their ARs

I never said they do, even though I believe some do. I just said it was possible, and not that hard to do.

Like I said if it was as easy as you say that we would see criminals , especially gangs, use them and it just doesn't happen.

Lots of things are possible but aren't probable

BUT ALL YOU NEED IS A FILE AND A PIECE OF STEEL CMON MAN ITS SO EASY

I never said just a file and piece of steel, but I get your point. I never explicitly said it would also require some sort of easily built jig and some sort of easily built bracket to hold the grinder steady. I regularly use those types of things, and don't see them as anything other than just normal use of the tool. I still stand by my claim that it is possible to cut a few non-complex notches out of a 1/2 by 3/4 by 1 1/4 inch piece of steel with nothing more than a grinder, a vice, and perhaps a file to smooth up the rough cuts, and a cheap set of Harbor Freight calipers to check your work. Oh look, I added a file and a way of measuring. I didn't mention a pencil to mark where to cut either. Does that mean my claim that a DIAS is easily built is a lie?

Make one. Show us how easy it is.

Hop to it.

Making one would put me in prison. I said I could show how to make one. but I want to make sure the other questions about the ease of conversion are answered first.

Talking to someone about it is Conspiracy to Commit.

Conversion isn't easy. I have built them legally, I had a full machine shop at my beck and call.

No . Talking about it is no conspiracy. There is no intent to build one. Yes, it is easy. Are you saying you aren't capable of swapping a few easily bought parts?

Not conspiracy. Solicitation.

"A person is guilty of solicitation to commit a crime if, with the purpose of promoting or facilitating its commission, he commands, encourages or requests another person to engage in specific conduct which would constitute such crime..."

You're encouraging people to break the law. Tsk, tsk.

Several times I said conversion was illegal and would put you in prison for a long time. I've specifically said I don't advise it. This thread is about why most people don't do it. The gun nut mantra is that crooks don't obey laws anyway, so why don't more crooks convert their AR15s. Is it because it is too complicated? Is there some secret procedure that they can't figure out?

Aside from difficulty and expense or trouble, full auto or burst capability is only an improvement in rare and unlikely circumstances even for criminals. Certainly not worth the risk of massive additional prison time for essentially no gain and for simple possession rather than actual use in a possibly profitable crime. Criminals aren't necessarily stupid.

Criminals aren't necessarily stupid, but gun nuts claim that criminals don't care about the law. Gun laws only limit legal users is the often made claim. Are you gonna change your mind now?

Not at all, what I wrote is not in conflict with that claim. You don't have to care about the law to understand cation or to want possible gain to outweigh the risk. My point is that having full auto weapons is simply of no great importance to the vast majority of gun owners. Few-criminal or otherwise-would consider it worth the trouble expense or risk. There is almost nothing that a full auto weapon will do that a simi-auto won't do just as well so why bother?

Bullshit. Everybody, especially gun nuts would love to have a fully automatic rifle. I've paid my money to shoot one at a gun show, just like thousands of others have. Criminals don't care about what is legal, isn't that what NRA types say every day? If they were legal, I would have one, and you probably would too. They are FUN!!

You're dreaming and not paying attention. The M-16 A-1 was issued to me and served as my primary weapon throughout my tour of duty in Vietnam. I was also issued M-60's and M-2 50 cal. BMGs at times. I qualified "expert" with the M-16. I am more than a little familiar with automatic weapons as well as most other weapon types. Any one who knows me considers me the proto-typical gun nut. I have no desire to own a full-auto weapon. The sad truth is ammo is expensive and can become hard to find at any price, I could not afford the care and feeding of a full auto weapon and still shoot it enough to shoot it as well as I would like. Besides if there is ever a time I would need a full auto weapon I feel there will be unneeded ones lying around.

But you could easily swap the bolt, hammer, and selector, couldn't you?

Don't know or care. I could easily set myself on fire but have never had the urge to do so.

What a silly comparison. Setting yourself on fire is not the same as owning a fully automatic rifle. Whether you personally would want a fully auto rifle is not the point anyway. We all know many would want one.

Maybe so maybe not. I don't care. Why should I care if law abiding citizens have full auto weapons? I would rather criminal types didn't have them but anyone who is paying attention knows that the laws we have don't stop anyone who is really determined to get one from doing so and there is absolutely no reason to believe there are any new laws that could do so. But it's also obvious that criminals don't really want them anyway. The only thing that repressive gun laws accomplishes is to increase the numbers of criminals by definition. Pass a law that violates my Constitutional rights and I'll ignore it and some will consider me a criminal. I'm okay with that.

 

[BULLDOG]

This GOTCHA attempt is so lame, we need to call in a veterinarian and have it put down.

It's an honest question. All I want is an honest answer.

Lots of people doubt its an assault rifle so the entire thread is pointless.

There are always people who live in their own little world, but if disagree with our military's definition, you're pretty much an idiot.

Like you who thinks that it's soooooo easy to modify an AR 15 into a fully automatic weapon even though no one ever seems to use modified AR 15s to commit crimes

Perhaps it would be beyond your ability to fabricate one small part, and purchase the rest. That wouldn't be a big hurdle for many.

Then tell me why we don't see people using modified Ar 15s to commit crimes.

You say all this shit but you have no proof that people are actually modifying their ARs

I never said they do, even though I believe some do. I just said it was possible, and not that hard to do.

Like I said if it was as easy as you say that we would see criminals , especially gangs, use them and it just doesn't happen.

Lots of things are possible but aren't probable

BUT ALL YOU NEED IS A FILE AND A PIECE OF STEEL CMON MAN ITS SO EASY

I never said just a file and piece of steel, but I get your point. I never explicitly said it would also require some sort of easily built jig and some sort of easily built bracket to hold the grinder steady. I regularly use those types of things, and don't see them as anything other than just normal use of the tool. I still stand by my claim that it is possible to cut a few non-complex notches out of a 1/2 by 3/4 by 1 1/4 inch piece of steel with nothing more than a grinder, a vice, and perhaps a file to smooth up the rough cuts, and a cheap set of Harbor Freight calipers to check your work. Oh look, I added a file and a way of measuring. I didn't mention a pencil to mark where to cut either. Does that mean my claim that a DIAS is easily built is a lie?

Make one. Show us how easy it is.

Hop to it.

Making one would put me in prison. I said I could show how to make one. but I want to make sure the other questions about the ease of conversion are answered first.

Talking to someone about it is Conspiracy to Commit.

Conversion isn't easy. I have built them legally, I had a full machine shop at my beck and call.

No . Talking about it is no conspiracy. There is no intent to build one. Yes, it is easy. Are you saying you aren't capable of swapping a few easily bought parts?

Not conspiracy. Solicitation.

"A person is guilty of solicitation to commit a crime if, with the purpose of promoting or facilitating its commission, he commands, encourages or requests another person to engage in specific conduct which would constitute such crime..."

You're encouraging people to break the law. Tsk, tsk.

Several times I said conversion was illegal and would put you in prison for a long time. I've specifically said I don't advise it. This thread is about why most people don't do it. The gun nut mantra is that crooks don't obey laws anyway, so why don't more crooks convert their AR15s. Is it because it is too complicated? Is there some secret procedure that they can't figure out?

Aside from difficulty and expense or trouble, full auto or burst capability is only an improvement in rare and unlikely circumstances even for criminals. Certainly not worth the risk of massive additional prison time for essentially no gain and for simple possession rather than actual use in a possibly profitable crime. Criminals aren't necessarily stupid.

Criminals aren't necessarily stupid, but gun nuts claim that criminals don't care about the law. Gun laws only limit legal users is the often made claim. Are you gonna change your mind now?

Not at all, what I wrote is not in conflict with that claim. You don't have to care about the law to understand cation or to want possible gain to outweigh the risk. My point is that having full auto weapons is simply of no great importance to the vast majority of gun owners. Few-criminal or otherwise-would consider it worth the trouble expense or risk. There is almost nothing that a full auto weapon will do that a simi-auto won't do just as well so why bother?

Bullshit. Everybody, especially gun nuts would love to have a fully automatic rifle. I've paid my money to shoot one at a gun show, just like thousands of others have. Criminals don't care about what is legal, isn't that what NRA types say every day? If they were legal, I would have one, and you probably would too. They are FUN!!

You're dreaming and not paying attention. The M-16 A-1 was issued to me and served as my primary weapon throughout my tour of duty in Vietnam. I was also issued M-60's and M-2 50 cal. BMGs at times. I qualified "expert" with the M-16. I am more than a little familiar with automatic weapons as well as most other weapon types. Any one who knows me considers me the proto-typical gun nut. I have no desire to own a full-auto weapon. The sad truth is ammo is expensive and can become hard to find at any price, I could not afford the care and feeding of a full auto weapon and still shoot it enough to shoot it as well as I would like. Besides if there is ever a time I would need a full auto weapon I feel there will be unneeded ones lying around.

But you could easily swap the bolt, hammer, and selector, couldn't you?

Don't know or care. I could easily set myself on fire but have never had the urge to do so.

What a silly comparison. Setting yourself on fire is not the same as owning a fully automatic rifle. Whether you personally would want a fully auto rifle is not the point anyway. We all know many would want one.

Maybe so maybe not. I don't care. Why should I care if law abiding citizens have full auto weapons? I would rather criminal types didn't have them but anyone who is paying attention knows that the laws we have don't stop anyone who is really determined to get one from doing so and there is absolutely no reason to believe there are any new laws that could do so. But it's also obvious that criminals don't really want them anyway. The only thing that repressive gun laws accomplishes is to increase the numbers of criminals by definition. Pass a law that violates my Constitutional rights and I'll ignore it and some will consider me a criminal. I'm okay with that.

You think fully auto weapons should not be regulated? Thankfully, most disagree with you.

 

[Canon Shooter]

So it seems most finally agree that full auto is really the only material difference between the two rifles, and the only question now, to find what I was looking for in the OP, is whether the conversion is fairly easy. Buying the needed parts, other than the DIAS, seems easy enough since they are for sale at damn near every gun store, and none of them require any special permit or approval for anyone to buy. A couple hundred bucks should cover the bolt carrier group, a M16 hammer and any other non regulated trigger parts needed. It comes down to whether the DIAS is pretty easy to build. Is that a fair assessment?

No, it's not...

 

[westwall]

This GOTCHA attempt is so lame, we need to call in a veterinarian and have it put down.

It's an honest question. All I want is an honest answer.

Lots of people doubt its an assault rifle so the entire thread is pointless.

There are always people who live in their own little world, but if disagree with our military's definition, you're pretty much an idiot.

Like you who thinks that it's soooooo easy to modify an AR 15 into a fully automatic weapon even though no one ever seems to use modified AR 15s to commit crimes

Perhaps it would be beyond your ability to fabricate one small part, and purchase the rest. That wouldn't be a big hurdle for many.

Then tell me why we don't see people using modified Ar 15s to commit crimes.

You say all this shit but you have no proof that people are actually modifying their ARs

I never said they do, even though I believe some do. I just said it was possible, and not that hard to do.

Like I said if it was as easy as you say that we would see criminals , especially gangs, use them and it just doesn't happen.

Lots of things are possible but aren't probable

BUT ALL YOU NEED IS A FILE AND A PIECE OF STEEL CMON MAN ITS SO EASY

I never said just a file and piece of steel, but I get your point. I never explicitly said it would also require some sort of easily built jig and some sort of easily built bracket to hold the grinder steady. I regularly use those types of things, and don't see them as anything other than just normal use of the tool. I still stand by my claim that it is possible to cut a few non-complex notches out of a 1/2 by 3/4 by 1 1/4 inch piece of steel with nothing more than a grinder, a vice, and perhaps a file to smooth up the rough cuts, and a cheap set of Harbor Freight calipers to check your work. Oh look, I added a file and a way of measuring. I didn't mention a pencil to mark where to cut either. Does that mean my claim that a DIAS is easily built is a lie?

Make one. Show us how easy it is.

Hop to it.

Making one would put me in prison. I said I could show how to make one. but I want to make sure the other questions about the ease of conversion are answered first.

Talking to someone about it is Conspiracy to Commit.

Conversion isn't easy. I have built them legally, I had a full machine shop at my beck and call.

No . Talking about it is no conspiracy. There is no intent to build one. Yes, it is easy. Are you saying you aren't capable of swapping a few easily bought parts?

Not conspiracy. Solicitation.

"A person is guilty of solicitation to commit a crime if, with the purpose of promoting or facilitating its commission, he commands, encourages or requests another person to engage in specific conduct which would constitute such crime..."

You're encouraging people to break the law. Tsk, tsk.

Several times I said conversion was illegal and would put you in prison for a long time. I've specifically said I don't advise it. This thread is about why most people don't do it. The gun nut mantra is that crooks don't obey laws anyway, so why don't more crooks convert their AR15s. Is it because it is too complicated? Is there some secret procedure that they can't figure out?

Aside from difficulty and expense or trouble, full auto or burst capability is only an improvement in rare and unlikely circumstances even for criminals. Certainly not worth the risk of massive additional prison time for essentially no gain and for simple possession rather than actual use in a possibly profitable crime. Criminals aren't necessarily stupid.

Criminals aren't necessarily stupid, but gun nuts claim that criminals don't care about the law. Gun laws only limit legal users is the often made claim. Are you gonna change your mind now?

Not at all, what I wrote is not in conflict with that claim. You don't have to care about the law to understand cation or to want possible gain to outweigh the risk. My point is that having full auto weapons is simply of no great importance to the vast majority of gun owners. Few-criminal or otherwise-would consider it worth the trouble expense or risk. There is almost nothing that a full auto weapon will do that a simi-auto won't do just as well so why bother?

Bullshit. Everybody, especially gun nuts would love to have a fully automatic rifle. I've paid my money to shoot one at a gun show, just like thousands of others have. Criminals don't care about what is legal, isn't that what NRA types say every day? If they were legal, I would have one, and you probably would too. They are FUN!!

You lying sack of shit, with ONE exception, they don't shoot guns at gunshows!

Name the exception.

You should google Knob Creek

That's the one exception. I have been there many times.

You claim to have been there. Describe it.

He's seen Knob Creek on video...when ABC News broadcast video of it claiming it was slaughter in Syria.

That's why I asked him to describe the gunshow part. That has not been broadcast to any great degree.

 

[9thIDdoc]

This GOTCHA attempt is so lame, we need to call in a veterinarian and have it put down.

It's an honest question. All I want is an honest answer.

Lots of people doubt its an assault rifle so the entire thread is pointless.

There are always people who live in their own little world, but if disagree with our military's definition, you're pretty much an idiot.

Like you who thinks that it's soooooo easy to modify an AR 15 into a fully automatic weapon even though no one ever seems to use modified AR 15s to commit crimes

Perhaps it would be beyond your ability to fabricate one small part, and purchase the rest. That wouldn't be a big hurdle for many.

Then tell me why we don't see people using modified Ar 15s to commit crimes.

You say all this shit but you have no proof that people are actually modifying their ARs

I never said they do, even though I believe some do. I just said it was possible, and not that hard to do.

Like I said if it was as easy as you say that we would see criminals , especially gangs, use them and it just doesn't happen.

Lots of things are possible but aren't probable

BUT ALL YOU NEED IS A FILE AND A PIECE OF STEEL CMON MAN ITS SO EASY

I never said just a file and piece of steel, but I get your point. I never explicitly said it would also require some sort of easily built jig and some sort of easily built bracket to hold the grinder steady. I regularly use those types of things, and don't see them as anything other than just normal use of the tool. I still stand by my claim that it is possible to cut a few non-complex notches out of a 1/2 by 3/4 by 1 1/4 inch piece of steel with nothing more than a grinder, a vice, and perhaps a file to smooth up the rough cuts, and a cheap set of Harbor Freight calipers to check your work. Oh look, I added a file and a way of measuring. I didn't mention a pencil to mark where to cut either. Does that mean my claim that a DIAS is easily built is a lie?

Make one. Show us how easy it is.

Hop to it.

Making one would put me in prison. I said I could show how to make one. but I want to make sure the other questions about the ease of conversion are answered first.

Talking to someone about it is Conspiracy to Commit.

Conversion isn't easy. I have built them legally, I had a full machine shop at my beck and call.

No . Talking about it is no conspiracy. There is no intent to build one. Yes, it is easy. Are you saying you aren't capable of swapping a few easily bought parts?

Not conspiracy. Solicitation.

"A person is guilty of solicitation to commit a crime if, with the purpose of promoting or facilitating its commission, he commands, encourages or requests another person to engage in specific conduct which would constitute such crime..."

You're encouraging people to break the law. Tsk, tsk.

Several times I said conversion was illegal and would put you in prison for a long time. I've specifically said I don't advise it. This thread is about why most people don't do it. The gun nut mantra is that crooks don't obey laws anyway, so why don't more crooks convert their AR15s. Is it because it is too complicated? Is there some secret procedure that they can't figure out?

Aside from difficulty and expense or trouble, full auto or burst capability is only an improvement in rare and unlikely circumstances even for criminals. Certainly not worth the risk of massive additional prison time for essentially no gain and for simple possession rather than actual use in a possibly profitable crime. Criminals aren't necessarily stupid.

Criminals aren't necessarily stupid, but gun nuts claim that criminals don't care about the law. Gun laws only limit legal users is the often made claim. Are you gonna change your mind now?

Not at all, what I wrote is not in conflict with that claim. You don't have to care about the law to understand cation or to want possible gain to outweigh the risk. My point is that having full auto weapons is simply of no great importance to the vast majority of gun owners. Few-criminal or otherwise-would consider it worth the trouble expense or risk. There is almost nothing that a full auto weapon will do that a simi-auto won't do just as well so why bother?

Bullshit. Everybody, especially gun nuts would love to have a fully automatic rifle. I've paid my money to shoot one at a gun show, just like thousands of others have. Criminals don't care about what is legal, isn't that what NRA types say every day? If they were legal, I would have one, and you probably would too. They are FUN!!

You're dreaming and not paying attention. The M-16 A-1 was issued to me and served as my primary weapon throughout my tour of duty in Vietnam. I was also issued M-60's and M-2 50 cal. BMGs at times. I qualified "expert" with the M-16. I am more than a little familiar with automatic weapons as well as most other weapon types. Any one who knows me considers me the proto-typical gun nut. I have no desire to own a full-auto weapon. The sad truth is ammo is expensive and can become hard to find at any price, I could not afford the care and feeding of a full auto weapon and still shoot it enough to shoot it as well as I would like. Besides if there is ever a time I would need a full auto weapon I feel there will be unneeded ones lying around.

But you could easily swap the bolt, hammer, and selector, couldn't you?

Don't know or care. I could easily set myself on fire but have never had the urge to do so.

What a silly comparison. Setting yourself on fire is not the same as owning a fully automatic rifle. Whether you personally would want a fully auto rifle is not the point anyway. We all know many would want one.

Maybe so maybe not. I don't care. Why should I care if law abiding citizens have full auto weapons? I would rather criminal types didn't have them but anyone who is paying attention knows that the laws we have don't stop anyone who is really determined to get one from doing so and there is absolutely no reason to believe there are any new laws that could do so. But it's also obvious that criminals don't really want them anyway. The only thing that repressive gun laws accomplishes is to increase the numbers of criminals by definition. Pass a law that violates my Constitutional rights and I'll ignore it and some will consider me a criminal. I'm okay with that.

You think fully auto weapons should not be regulated? Thankfully, most disagree with you.

Didn't say that. I said I don't care. And that anyone who really wants one can get one regardless. But I do care very much that the blind drive to regulate automatic weapons doesn't spill over into attempts to further regulate other types of weapons including simi-automatic weapons. I would consider that unconstitutional and therefore illegal.

 

[BULLDOG]

This GOTCHA attempt is so lame, we need to call in a veterinarian and have it put down.

It's an honest question. All I want is an honest answer.

Lots of people doubt its an assault rifle so the entire thread is pointless.

There are always people who live in their own little world, but if disagree with our military's definition, you're pretty much an idiot.

Like you who thinks that it's soooooo easy to modify an AR 15 into a fully automatic weapon even though no one ever seems to use modified AR 15s to commit crimes

Perhaps it would be beyond your ability to fabricate one small part, and purchase the rest. That wouldn't be a big hurdle for many.

Then tell me why we don't see people using modified Ar 15s to commit crimes.

You say all this shit but you have no proof that people are actually modifying their ARs

I never said they do, even though I believe some do. I just said it was possible, and not that hard to do.

Like I said if it was as easy as you say that we would see criminals , especially gangs, use them and it just doesn't happen.

Lots of things are possible but aren't probable

BUT ALL YOU NEED IS A FILE AND A PIECE OF STEEL CMON MAN ITS SO EASY

I never said just a file and piece of steel, but I get your point. I never explicitly said it would also require some sort of easily built jig and some sort of easily built bracket to hold the grinder steady. I regularly use those types of things, and don't see them as anything other than just normal use of the tool. I still stand by my claim that it is possible to cut a few non-complex notches out of a 1/2 by 3/4 by 1 1/4 inch piece of steel with nothing more than a grinder, a vice, and perhaps a file to smooth up the rough cuts, and a cheap set of Harbor Freight calipers to check your work. Oh look, I added a file and a way of measuring. I didn't mention a pencil to mark where to cut either. Does that mean my claim that a DIAS is easily built is a lie?

Make one. Show us how easy it is.

Hop to it.

Making one would put me in prison. I said I could show how to make one. but I want to make sure the other questions about the ease of conversion are answered first.

Talking to someone about it is Conspiracy to Commit.

Conversion isn't easy. I have built them legally, I had a full machine shop at my beck and call.

No . Talking about it is no conspiracy. There is no intent to build one. Yes, it is easy. Are you saying you aren't capable of swapping a few easily bought parts?

Not conspiracy. Solicitation.

"A person is guilty of solicitation to commit a crime if, with the purpose of promoting or facilitating its commission, he commands, encourages or requests another person to engage in specific conduct which would constitute such crime..."

You're encouraging people to break the law. Tsk, tsk.

Several times I said conversion was illegal and would put you in prison for a long time. I've specifically said I don't advise it. This thread is about why most people don't do it. The gun nut mantra is that crooks don't obey laws anyway, so why don't more crooks convert their AR15s. Is it because it is too complicated? Is there some secret procedure that they can't figure out?

Aside from difficulty and expense or trouble, full auto or burst capability is only an improvement in rare and unlikely circumstances even for criminals. Certainly not worth the risk of massive additional prison time for essentially no gain and for simple possession rather than actual use in a possibly profitable crime. Criminals aren't necessarily stupid.

Criminals aren't necessarily stupid, but gun nuts claim that criminals don't care about the law. Gun laws only limit legal users is the often made claim. Are you gonna change your mind now?

Not at all, what I wrote is not in conflict with that claim. You don't have to care about the law to understand cation or to want possible gain to outweigh the risk. My point is that having full auto weapons is simply of no great importance to the vast majority of gun owners. Few-criminal or otherwise-would consider it worth the trouble expense or risk. There is almost nothing that a full auto weapon will do that a simi-auto won't do just as well so why bother?

Bullshit. Everybody, especially gun nuts would love to have a fully automatic rifle. I've paid my money to shoot one at a gun show, just like thousands of others have. Criminals don't care about what is legal, isn't that what NRA types say every day? If they were legal, I would have one, and you probably would too. They are FUN!!

You're dreaming and not paying attention. The M-16 A-1 was issued to me and served as my primary weapon throughout my tour of duty in Vietnam. I was also issued M-60's and M-2 50 cal. BMGs at times. I qualified "expert" with the M-16. I am more than a little familiar with automatic weapons as well as most other weapon types. Any one who knows me considers me the proto-typical gun nut. I have no desire to own a full-auto weapon. The sad truth is ammo is expensive and can become hard to find at any price, I could not afford the care and feeding of a full auto weapon and still shoot it enough to shoot it as well as I would like. Besides if there is ever a time I would need a full auto weapon I feel there will be unneeded ones lying around.

But you could easily swap the bolt, hammer, and selector, couldn't you?

Don't know or care. I could easily set myself on fire but have never had the urge to do so.

What a silly comparison. Setting yourself on fire is not the same as owning a fully automatic rifle. Whether you personally would want a fully auto rifle is not the point anyway. We all know many would want one.

Maybe so maybe not. I don't care. Why should I care if law abiding citizens have full auto weapons? I would rather criminal types didn't have them but anyone who is paying attention knows that the laws we have don't stop anyone who is really determined to get one from doing so and there is absolutely no reason to believe there are any new laws that could do so. But it's also obvious that criminals don't really want them anyway. The only thing that repressive gun laws accomplishes is to increase the numbers of criminals by definition. Pass a law that violates my Constitutional rights and I'll ignore it and some will consider me a criminal. I'm okay with that.

You think fully auto weapons should not be regulated? Thankfully, most disagree with you.

Didn't say that. I said I don't care. And that anyone who really wants one can get one regardless. But I do care very much that the blind drive to regulate automatic weapons doesn't spill over into attempts to further regulate other types of weapons including simi-automatic weapons. I would consider that unconstitutional and therefore illegal.

Many people agree with you. That has nothing to do with the OP, but sure, lots of people agree with you.

 

[9thIDdoc]

This GOTCHA attempt is so lame, we need to call in a veterinarian and have it put down.

It's an honest question. All I want is an honest answer.

Lots of people doubt its an assault rifle so the entire thread is pointless.

There are always people who live in their own little world, but if disagree with our military's definition, you're pretty much an idiot.

Like you who thinks that it's soooooo easy to modify an AR 15 into a fully automatic weapon even though no one ever seems to use modified AR 15s to commit crimes

Perhaps it would be beyond your ability to fabricate one small part, and purchase the rest. That wouldn't be a big hurdle for many.

Then tell me why we don't see people using modified Ar 15s to commit crimes.

You say all this shit but you have no proof that people are actually modifying their ARs

I never said they do, even though I believe some do. I just said it was possible, and not that hard to do.

Like I said if it was as easy as you say that we would see criminals , especially gangs, use them and it just doesn't happen.

Lots of things are possible but aren't probable

BUT ALL YOU NEED IS A FILE AND A PIECE OF STEEL CMON MAN ITS SO EASY

I never said just a file and piece of steel, but I get your point. I never explicitly said it would also require some sort of easily built jig and some sort of easily built bracket to hold the grinder steady. I regularly use those types of things, and don't see them as anything other than just normal use of the tool. I still stand by my claim that it is possible to cut a few non-complex notches out of a 1/2 by 3/4 by 1 1/4 inch piece of steel with nothing more than a grinder, a vice, and perhaps a file to smooth up the rough cuts, and a cheap set of Harbor Freight calipers to check your work. Oh look, I added a file and a way of measuring. I didn't mention a pencil to mark where to cut either. Does that mean my claim that a DIAS is easily built is a lie?

Make one. Show us how easy it is.

Hop to it.

Making one would put me in prison. I said I could show how to make one. but I want to make sure the other questions about the ease of conversion are answered first.

Talking to someone about it is Conspiracy to Commit.

Conversion isn't easy. I have built them legally, I had a full machine shop at my beck and call.

No . Talking about it is no conspiracy. There is no intent to build one. Yes, it is easy. Are you saying you aren't capable of swapping a few easily bought parts?

Not conspiracy. Solicitation.

"A person is guilty of solicitation to commit a crime if, with the purpose of promoting or facilitating its commission, he commands, encourages or requests another person to engage in specific conduct which would constitute such crime..."

You're encouraging people to break the law. Tsk, tsk.

Several times I said conversion was illegal and would put you in prison for a long time. I've specifically said I don't advise it. This thread is about why most people don't do it. The gun nut mantra is that crooks don't obey laws anyway, so why don't more crooks convert their AR15s. Is it because it is too complicated? Is there some secret procedure that they can't figure out?

Aside from difficulty and expense or trouble, full auto or burst capability is only an improvement in rare and unlikely circumstances even for criminals. Certainly not worth the risk of massive additional prison time for essentially no gain and for simple possession rather than actual use in a possibly profitable crime. Criminals aren't necessarily stupid.

Criminals aren't necessarily stupid, but gun nuts claim that criminals don't care about the law. Gun laws only limit legal users is the often made claim. Are you gonna change your mind now?

Not at all, what I wrote is not in conflict with that claim. You don't have to care about the law to understand cation or to want possible gain to outweigh the risk. My point is that having full auto weapons is simply of no great importance to the vast majority of gun owners. Few-criminal or otherwise-would consider it worth the trouble expense or risk. There is almost nothing that a full auto weapon will do that a simi-auto won't do just as well so why bother?

Bullshit. Everybody, especially gun nuts would love to have a fully automatic rifle. I've paid my money to shoot one at a gun show, just like thousands of others have. Criminals don't care about what is legal, isn't that what NRA types say every day? If they were legal, I would have one, and you probably would too. They are FUN!!

You're dreaming and not paying attention. The M-16 A-1 was issued to me and served as my primary weapon throughout my tour of duty in Vietnam. I was also issued M-60's and M-2 50 cal. BMGs at times. I qualified "expert" with the M-16. I am more than a little familiar with automatic weapons as well as most other weapon types. Any one who knows me considers me the proto-typical gun nut. I have no desire to own a full-auto weapon. The sad truth is ammo is expensive and can become hard to find at any price, I could not afford the care and feeding of a full auto weapon and still shoot it enough to shoot it as well as I would like. Besides if there is ever a time I would need a full auto weapon I feel there will be unneeded ones lying around.

But you could easily swap the bolt, hammer, and selector, couldn't you?

Don't know or care. I could easily set myself on fire but have never had the urge to do so.

What a silly comparison. Setting yourself on fire is not the same as owning a fully automatic rifle. Whether you personally would want a fully auto rifle is not the point anyway. We all know many would want one.

Maybe so maybe not. I don't care. Why should I care if law abiding citizens have full auto weapons? I would rather criminal types didn't have them but anyone who is paying attention knows that the laws we have don't stop anyone who is really determined to get one from doing so and there is absolutely no reason to believe there are any new laws that could do so. But it's also obvious that criminals don't really want them anyway. The only thing that repressive gun laws accomplishes is to increase the numbers of criminals by definition. Pass a law that violates my Constitutional rights and I'll ignore it and some will consider me a criminal. I'm okay with that.

You think fully auto weapons should not be regulated? Thankfully, most disagree with you.

Didn't say that. I said I don't care. And that anyone who really wants one can get one regardless. But I do care very much that the blind drive to regulate automatic weapons doesn't spill over into attempts to further regulate other types of weapons including simi-automatic weapons. I would consider that unconstitutional and therefore illegal.

Many people agree with you. That has nothing to do with the OP, but sure, lots of people agree with you.

Then why not tell us all exactly what the purpose of the OP is? Why are you being all coy about that? Why ask others what you claim to already know?

 

[BULLDOG]

This GOTCHA attempt is so lame, we need to call in a veterinarian and have it put down.

It's an honest question. All I want is an honest answer.

Lots of people doubt its an assault rifle so the entire thread is pointless.

There are always people who live in their own little world, but if disagree with our military's definition, you're pretty much an idiot.

Like you who thinks that it's soooooo easy to modify an AR 15 into a fully automatic weapon even though no one ever seems to use modified AR 15s to commit crimes

Perhaps it would be beyond your ability to fabricate one small part, and purchase the rest. That wouldn't be a big hurdle for many.

Then tell me why we don't see people using modified Ar 15s to commit crimes.

You say all this shit but you have no proof that people are actually modifying their ARs

I never said they do, even though I believe some do. I just said it was possible, and not that hard to do.

Like I said if it was as easy as you say that we would see criminals , especially gangs, use them and it just doesn't happen.

Lots of things are possible but aren't probable

BUT ALL YOU NEED IS A FILE AND A PIECE OF STEEL CMON MAN ITS SO EASY

I never said just a file and piece of steel, but I get your point. I never explicitly said it would also require some sort of easily built jig and some sort of easily built bracket to hold the grinder steady. I regularly use those types of things, and don't see them as anything other than just normal use of the tool. I still stand by my claim that it is possible to cut a few non-complex notches out of a 1/2 by 3/4 by 1 1/4 inch piece of steel with nothing more than a grinder, a vice, and perhaps a file to smooth up the rough cuts, and a cheap set of Harbor Freight calipers to check your work. Oh look, I added a file and a way of measuring. I didn't mention a pencil to mark where to cut either. Does that mean my claim that a DIAS is easily built is a lie?

Make one. Show us how easy it is.

Hop to it.

Making one would put me in prison. I said I could show how to make one. but I want to make sure the other questions about the ease of conversion are answered first.

Talking to someone about it is Conspiracy to Commit.

Conversion isn't easy. I have built them legally, I had a full machine shop at my beck and call.

No . Talking about it is no conspiracy. There is no intent to build one. Yes, it is easy. Are you saying you aren't capable of swapping a few easily bought parts?

Not conspiracy. Solicitation.

"A person is guilty of solicitation to commit a crime if, with the purpose of promoting or facilitating its commission, he commands, encourages or requests another person to engage in specific conduct which would constitute such crime..."

You're encouraging people to break the law. Tsk, tsk.

Several times I said conversion was illegal and would put you in prison for a long time. I've specifically said I don't advise it. This thread is about why most people don't do it. The gun nut mantra is that crooks don't obey laws anyway, so why don't more crooks convert their AR15s. Is it because it is too complicated? Is there some secret procedure that they can't figure out?

Aside from difficulty and expense or trouble, full auto or burst capability is only an improvement in rare and unlikely circumstances even for criminals. Certainly not worth the risk of massive additional prison time for essentially no gain and for simple possession rather than actual use in a possibly profitable crime. Criminals aren't necessarily stupid.

Criminals aren't necessarily stupid, but gun nuts claim that criminals don't care about the law. Gun laws only limit legal users is the often made claim. Are you gonna change your mind now?

Not at all, what I wrote is not in conflict with that claim. You don't have to care about the law to understand cation or to want possible gain to outweigh the risk. My point is that having full auto weapons is simply of no great importance to the vast majority of gun owners. Few-criminal or otherwise-would consider it worth the trouble expense or risk. There is almost nothing that a full auto weapon will do that a simi-auto won't do just as well so why bother?

Bullshit. Everybody, especially gun nuts would love to have a fully automatic rifle. I've paid my money to shoot one at a gun show, just like thousands of others have. Criminals don't care about what is legal, isn't that what NRA types say every day? If they were legal, I would have one, and you probably would too. They are FUN!!

You're dreaming and not paying attention. The M-16 A-1 was issued to me and served as my primary weapon throughout my tour of duty in Vietnam. I was also issued M-60's and M-2 50 cal. BMGs at times. I qualified "expert" with the M-16. I am more than a little familiar with automatic weapons as well as most other weapon types. Any one who knows me considers me the proto-typical gun nut. I have no desire to own a full-auto weapon. The sad truth is ammo is expensive and can become hard to find at any price, I could not afford the care and feeding of a full auto weapon and still shoot it enough to shoot it as well as I would like. Besides if there is ever a time I would need a full auto weapon I feel there will be unneeded ones lying around.

But you could easily swap the bolt, hammer, and selector, couldn't you?

Don't know or care. I could easily set myself on fire but have never had the urge to do so.

What a silly comparison. Setting yourself on fire is not the same as owning a fully automatic rifle. Whether you personally would want a fully auto rifle is not the point anyway. We all know many would want one.

Maybe so maybe not. I don't care. Why should I care if law abiding citizens have full auto weapons? I would rather criminal types didn't have them but anyone who is paying attention knows that the laws we have don't stop anyone who is really determined to get one from doing so and there is absolutely no reason to believe there are any new laws that could do so. But it's also obvious that criminals don't really want them anyway. The only thing that repressive gun laws accomplishes is to increase the numbers of criminals by definition. Pass a law that violates my Constitutional rights and I'll ignore it and some will consider me a criminal. I'm okay with that.

You think fully auto weapons should not be regulated? Thankfully, most disagree with you.

Didn't say that. I said I don't care. And that anyone who really wants one can get one regardless. But I do care very much that the blind drive to regulate automatic weapons doesn't spill over into attempts to further regulate other types of weapons including simi-automatic weapons. I would consider that unconstitutional and therefore illegal.

Many people agree with you. That has nothing to do with the OP, but sure, lots of people agree with you.

Then why not tell us all exactly what the purpose of the OP is? Why are you being all coy about that? Why ask others what you claim to already know?

Just wondering what made an AR15 different from a military defined assault rifle. Of course that one difference (F/A capability) shrinks when you consider how easy it is to make an AR fully automatic. During the course of the thread, it became interesting to see how hard many were trying to pretend that conversion is all but impossible, or that nobody would ever even be interested in making the conversion.

 

[westwall]

This GOTCHA attempt is so lame, we need to call in a veterinarian and have it put down.

It's an honest question. All I want is an honest answer.

Lots of people doubt its an assault rifle so the entire thread is pointless.

There are always people who live in their own little world, but if disagree with our military's definition, you're pretty much an idiot.

Like you who thinks that it's soooooo easy to modify an AR 15 into a fully automatic weapon even though no one ever seems to use modified AR 15s to commit crimes

Perhaps it would be beyond your ability to fabricate one small part, and purchase the rest. That wouldn't be a big hurdle for many.

Then tell me why we don't see people using modified Ar 15s to commit crimes.

You say all this shit but you have no proof that people are actually modifying their ARs

I never said they do, even though I believe some do. I just said it was possible, and not that hard to do.

Like I said if it was as easy as you say that we would see criminals , especially gangs, use them and it just doesn't happen.

Lots of things are possible but aren't probable

BUT ALL YOU NEED IS A FILE AND A PIECE OF STEEL CMON MAN ITS SO EASY

I never said just a file and piece of steel, but I get your point. I never explicitly said it would also require some sort of easily built jig and some sort of easily built bracket to hold the grinder steady. I regularly use those types of things, and don't see them as anything other than just normal use of the tool. I still stand by my claim that it is possible to cut a few non-complex notches out of a 1/2 by 3/4 by 1 1/4 inch piece of steel with nothing more than a grinder, a vice, and perhaps a file to smooth up the rough cuts, and a cheap set of Harbor Freight calipers to check your work. Oh look, I added a file and a way of measuring. I didn't mention a pencil to mark where to cut either. Does that mean my claim that a DIAS is easily built is a lie?

Make one. Show us how easy it is.

Hop to it.

Making one would put me in prison. I said I could show how to make one. but I want to make sure the other questions about the ease of conversion are answered first.

Talking to someone about it is Conspiracy to Commit.

Conversion isn't easy. I have built them legally, I had a full machine shop at my beck and call.

No . Talking about it is no conspiracy. There is no intent to build one. Yes, it is easy. Are you saying you aren't capable of swapping a few easily bought parts?

Not conspiracy. Solicitation.

"A person is guilty of solicitation to commit a crime if, with the purpose of promoting or facilitating its commission, he commands, encourages or requests another person to engage in specific conduct which would constitute such crime..."

You're encouraging people to break the law. Tsk, tsk.

Several times I said conversion was illegal and would put you in prison for a long time. I've specifically said I don't advise it. This thread is about why most people don't do it. The gun nut mantra is that crooks don't obey laws anyway, so why don't more crooks convert their AR15s. Is it because it is too complicated? Is there some secret procedure that they can't figure out?

Aside from difficulty and expense or trouble, full auto or burst capability is only an improvement in rare and unlikely circumstances even for criminals. Certainly not worth the risk of massive additional prison time for essentially no gain and for simple possession rather than actual use in a possibly profitable crime. Criminals aren't necessarily stupid.

Criminals aren't necessarily stupid, but gun nuts claim that criminals don't care about the law. Gun laws only limit legal users is the often made claim. Are you gonna change your mind now?

Not at all, what I wrote is not in conflict with that claim. You don't have to care about the law to understand cation or to want possible gain to outweigh the risk. My point is that having full auto weapons is simply of no great importance to the vast majority of gun owners. Few-criminal or otherwise-would consider it worth the trouble expense or risk. There is almost nothing that a full auto weapon will do that a simi-auto won't do just as well so why bother?

Bullshit. Everybody, especially gun nuts would love to have a fully automatic rifle. I've paid my money to shoot one at a gun show, just like thousands of others have. Criminals don't care about what is legal, isn't that what NRA types say every day? If they were legal, I would have one, and you probably would too. They are FUN!!

You're dreaming and not paying attention. The M-16 A-1 was issued to me and served as my primary weapon throughout my tour of duty in Vietnam. I was also issued M-60's and M-2 50 cal. BMGs at times. I qualified "expert" with the M-16. I am more than a little familiar with automatic weapons as well as most other weapon types. Any one who knows me considers me the proto-typical gun nut. I have no desire to own a full-auto weapon. The sad truth is ammo is expensive and can become hard to find at any price, I could not afford the care and feeding of a full auto weapon and still shoot it enough to shoot it as well as I would like. Besides if there is ever a time I would need a full auto weapon I feel there will be unneeded ones lying around.

But you could easily swap the bolt, hammer, and selector, couldn't you?

Don't know or care. I could easily set myself on fire but have never had the urge to do so.

What a silly comparison. Setting yourself on fire is not the same as owning a fully automatic rifle. Whether you personally would want a fully auto rifle is not the point anyway. We all know many would want one.

Maybe so maybe not. I don't care. Why should I care if law abiding citizens have full auto weapons? I would rather criminal types didn't have them but anyone who is paying attention knows that the laws we have don't stop anyone who is really determined to get one from doing so and there is absolutely no reason to believe there are any new laws that could do so. But it's also obvious that criminals don't really want them anyway. The only thing that repressive gun laws accomplishes is to increase the numbers of criminals by definition. Pass a law that violates my Constitutional rights and I'll ignore it and some will consider me a criminal. I'm okay with that.

You think fully auto weapons should not be regulated? Thankfully, most disagree with you.

Didn't say that. I said I don't care. And that anyone who really wants one can get one regardless. But I do care very much that the blind drive to regulate automatic weapons doesn't spill over into attempts to further regulate other types of weapons including simi-automatic weapons. I would consider that unconstitutional and therefore illegal.

Many people agree with you. That has nothing to do with the OP, but sure, lots of people agree with you.

Then why not tell us all exactly what the purpose of the OP is? Why are you being all coy about that? Why ask others what you claim to already know?

Just wondering what made an AR15 different from a military defined assault rifle. Of course that one difference (F/A capability) shrinks when you consider how easy it is to make an AR fully automatic. During the course of the thread, it became interesting to see how hard many were trying to pretend that conversion is all but impossible, or that nobody would ever even be interested in making the conversion.

And, Ultimately the question remains.

Who cares.

The 2nd Amendment is Specifically about weapons that are usable by the military so your point is moot.

In US v Miller, the SCOTUS held that a sawed off shotgun could be regulated because it had no forseeable military purpose..

Which makes this entire thread irrelevant.