Noonan: Obama is a disaster

[Si modo]

Come on guys. This is a thread about Peggy Noonan and her impressions of Obama. Isn't there another thread you can bash Reagan et al on?

It's amazing the level of discourse by some. Sarah can only talk about her looks and intellignece (the latter coming from her is rich), NYC says she's not famous enough, etc. It takes some actual thought to comment on content and that's asking way too much from some.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The economy was a mess during the Carter years. There were times when it didn't suck so badly but I remember unemployment being around 10%. It took until 1983 for things to turn around. Don't even attempt to tell me Reagan was responsible for a rotten economy.

As I said, ignorance of the simplest of facts:

Unemployment rate:

1980-12-01 7.2
1981-01-01 7.5
1981-02-01 7.4
1981-03-01 7.4
1981-04-01 7.2
1981-05-01 7.5
1981-06-01 7.5
1981-07-01 7.2
1981-08-01 7.4
1981-09-01 7.6
1981-10-01 7.9
1981-11-01 8.3
1981-12-01 8.5
1982-01-01 8.6
1982-02-01 8.9
1982-03-01 9.0
1982-04-01 9.3
1982-05-01 9.4
1982-06-01 9.6
1982-07-01 9.8
1982-08-01 9.8
1982-09-01 10.1
1982-10-01 10.4
1982-11-01 10.8
1982-12-01 10.8
1983-01-01 10.4
1983-02-01 10.4
1983-03-01 10.3
1983-04-01 10.2
1983-05-01 10.1
1983-06-01 10.1
1983-07-01 9.4
1983-08-01 9.5
1983-09-01 9.2
1983-10-01 8.8
1983-11-01 8.5
1983-12-01 8.3
1984-01-01 8.0
1984-02-01 7.8
1984-03-01 7.8
1984-04-01 7.7
1984-05-01 7.4
1984-06-01 7.2
1984-07-01 7.5
1984-08-01 7.5
1984-09-01 7.3
1984-10-01 7.4
1984-11-01 7.2
1984-12-01 7.3
1985-01-01 7.3
1985-02-01 7.2
1985-03-01 7.2
1985-04-01 7.3
1985-05-01 7.2
1985-06-01 7.4
1985-07-01 7.4
1985-08-01 7.1

Try posting a link.

I noticed you didn't show any of the Carter years before 80'. Also, this only shows that I was right. By 83' the economy had started to recover, just like I said. By 1988 he had unemployment around 5% also.

Also.....unemployment was around 5% in 08'. What happened?

File:Empsit Page 01.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The fact that you would need a link to unemployment data when you're spouting off about it beforehand is just more evidence of your ignorance.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Come on guys. This is a thread about Peggy Noonan and her impressions of Obama. Isn't there another thread you can bash Reagan et al on?

It's amazing the level of discourse by some. Sarah can only talk about her looks and intellignece (the latter coming from her is rich), NYC says she's not famous enough, etc. It takes some actual thought to comment on content and that's asking way too much from some.

I was pointing out that her political bias is worth taking into account when she's propagandizing about Obama. I would like to know what her characterization of Reagan's presidency at this point would be if she thinks Obama's is a disaster. By virtually every measure his presidency was no better at this point.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Four years of Carter may have contributed to that. Democrats seem to be able to screw things up faster then the GOP. I suppose you could say Bush took 8 yrs.....Carter took 4....and Obama took 1.

Reagan had a rocky road to start with. However Reagan at least didn't scare the shit out of everybody with his crazy policies. The prospects for a recovery are dismal regardless of how much the White House lies about how great everything is.

Of course not, Grenada, Nicaragua, Panama....

and lets not forget the bombing of the marine barracks.

and he only more than doubled the national debt.

Umm...only his DEMOCRATIC CONGRESS could do any spending. Just like they are now and the last two years of W.

So that 80's military buildup that supposedly won the Cold War...the Democrats in Congress should be getting the credit for that? Why then do wingnuts persist in telling me that Reagan won the Cold War?

 

[mudwhistle]

As I said, ignorance of the simplest of facts:

Unemployment rate:

1980-12-01 7.2
1981-01-01 7.5
1981-02-01 7.4
1981-03-01 7.4
1981-04-01 7.2
1981-05-01 7.5
1981-06-01 7.5
1981-07-01 7.2
1981-08-01 7.4
1981-09-01 7.6
1981-10-01 7.9
1981-11-01 8.3
1981-12-01 8.5
1982-01-01 8.6
1982-02-01 8.9
1982-03-01 9.0
1982-04-01 9.3
1982-05-01 9.4
1982-06-01 9.6
1982-07-01 9.8
1982-08-01 9.8
1982-09-01 10.1
1982-10-01 10.4
1982-11-01 10.8
1982-12-01 10.8
1983-01-01 10.4
1983-02-01 10.4
1983-03-01 10.3
1983-04-01 10.2
1983-05-01 10.1
1983-06-01 10.1
1983-07-01 9.4
1983-08-01 9.5
1983-09-01 9.2
1983-10-01 8.8
1983-11-01 8.5
1983-12-01 8.3
1984-01-01 8.0
1984-02-01 7.8
1984-03-01 7.8
1984-04-01 7.7
1984-05-01 7.4
1984-06-01 7.2
1984-07-01 7.5
1984-08-01 7.5
1984-09-01 7.3
1984-10-01 7.4
1984-11-01 7.2
1984-12-01 7.3
1985-01-01 7.3
1985-02-01 7.2
1985-03-01 7.2
1985-04-01 7.3
1985-05-01 7.2
1985-06-01 7.4
1985-07-01 7.4
1985-08-01 7.1

Try posting a link.

I noticed you didn't show any of the Carter years before 80'. Also, this only shows that I was right. By 83' the economy had started to recover, just like I said. By 1988 he had unemployment around 5% also.

Also.....unemployment was around 5% in 08'. What happened?

File:Empsit Page 01.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The fact that you would need a link to unemployment data when you're spouting off about it beforehand is just more evidence of your ignorance.

The fact that you refuse to give a link shows you're talking out of your ass.

A proper link used as a reference keeps people like you from using statistical data incorrectly. If you dare to provide said links then everyone can draw their own conclusions rather then having to take your biased word for it.

 

[Foxfyre]

Come on guys. This is a thread about Peggy Noonan and her impressions of Obama. Isn't there another thread you can bash Reagan et al on?

It's amazing the level of discourse by some. Sarah can only talk about her looks and intellignece (the latter coming from her is rich), NYC says she's not famous enough, etc. It takes some actual thought to comment on content and that's asking way too much from some.

I was pointing out that her political bias is worth taking into account when she's propagandizing about Obama. I would like to know what her characterization of Reagan's presidency at this point would be if she thinks Obama's is a disaster. By virtually every measure his presidency was no better at this point.

Her political bias? When we have already posted clips in which she strongly criticized President Bush 43? When we have posted that she has worked for PBS and wrote for Dan Rather? What political bias? She did work for Reagan, yes, and you don't expect somebody who works for you to try to discredit you. Dick Morris for instance worked for Bill Clinton and helped him build a favorable and popular image. Would you expect Morris to criticize Clinton while he was working for Clinton?

Political bias no. Ideological bias yes as we all have that.

But how does it help Obama to tear down Reagan? Are you happy to suck no worse than you perceive somebody else to suck?

 

[Midnight Marauder]

When are folks going to wake up and understand it's not the President, it's the CONGRESS?

PELOSI/REID is the disaster, not Obama. This Congressional "leadership" is by far the WORST thing Obama "inherited" and it definitely shows.

 

[Misty]

I was pointing out that her political bias is worth taking into account when she's propagandizing about Obama. I would like to know what her characterization of Reagan's presidency at this point would be if she thinks Obama's is a disaster. By virtually every measure his presidency was no better at this point.

In his presidency he did this: He out-argued communism and refused to accept its claim of moral superiority; he rallied the West, rallied America and continued to make big gambles, including a defense-spending increase in a recession. He promised he'd place Pershings in Europe if the Soviets would not agree to arms reductions, and told Soviet leaders that they'd never be able to beat us in defense, that we'd spend them into the ground. They were suddenly reasonable.

He pushed down income taxes too, from a high of 70% when he entered the White House to a new low of 28% when he left, igniting the long boom that, for all its ups and downs, is with us still. He believed, as JFK did, that a rising tide lifts all boats. He did much more, returning respect to our armed forces, changing 50-year-old assumptions about the place of government and the place of the citizen in the new America."



From wsj archive

 

[boedicca]

Her political bias? When we have already posted clips in which she strongly criticized President Bush 43? When we have posted that she has worked for PBS and wrote for Dan Rather? What political bias? She did work for Reagan, yes, and you don't expect somebody who works for you to try to discredit you. Dick Morris for instance worked for Bill Clinton and helped him build a favorable and popular image. Would you expect Morris to criticize Clinton while he was working for Clinton?

Political bias no. Ideological bias yes as we all have that.

But how does it help Obama to tear down Reagan? Are you happy to suck no worse than you perceive somebody else to suck?

Don't you know? When they have no way to address the substance of criticism, all they are left with is attacking the messenger?

 

[Foxfyre]

When are folks going to wake up and understand it's not the President, it's the CONGRESS?

PELOSI/REID is the disaster, not Obama. This Congressional "leadership" is by far the WORST thing Obama "inherited" and it definitely shows.

It is the Congress that commits fiscal responsibility or irresponsibility for sure. The President cannot spend a dime that Congress does not authorize. The President can request but can order no legislation. There would be no "Obamacare" or "Cap and Trade" in the works if Congress had not put it there.

But the President sets the tone and the President has the bully pulpit to take the case to the people. And in that, Obama despite his formidable oratorical skills and personal charm has failed miserably mostly because the walk he walks is quite different from the talk he talks and that has eroded almost all the huge amount of political capital he started with. I don't think anybody who is paying attention and is capable of independent thought believes much of what he says anymore.

 

[boedicca]

When are folks going to wake up and understand it's not the President, it's the CONGRESS?

PELOSI/REID is the disaster, not Obama. This Congressional "leadership" is by far the WORST thing Obama "inherited" and it definitely shows.

That is only part of the problem. It's the whole damned thing.

- Congress is corrupt
- Government is too big and getting bigger
- Public Employee unions are bleeding out the taxpayers

and

- We have an inexperienced and incompetent narcissist in the White House who thinks he can do whatever he wants because he "won".

 

[Foxfyre]

Her political bias? When we have already posted clips in which she strongly criticized President Bush 43? When we have posted that she has worked for PBS and wrote for Dan Rather? What political bias? She did work for Reagan, yes, and you don't expect somebody who works for you to try to discredit you. Dick Morris for instance worked for Bill Clinton and helped him build a favorable and popular image. Would you expect Morris to criticize Clinton while he was working for Clinton?

Political bias no. Ideological bias yes as we all have that.

But how does it help Obama to tear down Reagan? Are you happy to suck no worse than you perceive somebody else to suck?

Don't you know? When they have no way to address the substance of criticism, all they are left with is attacking the messenger?

Yes, I do know, and that is one of the most frustrating damn things about these kinds of forums. So many seem unable to even want to focus on a concept or idea, so they drag in the non sequiturs, straw men, red herrings, and/or argue ad hominem so that no discussion of the topic can take place. And part of that is attacking the messenger.

All I can say to that is ARRRRRRGH!

 

[boedicca]

Indeed. And they were perfectly happy to see Noonan was poetic about Obama during the 2008 campaign. If she was credible then, why not now?

 

[Foxfyre]

Indeed. And they were perfectly happy to see Noonan was poetic about Obama during the 2008 campaign. If she was credible then, why not now?

Not convenient I guess. For instance I posted a condensed bio for Peggy Noonan a couple of pages back. This was to counter the snipes at her that she was just 'opining' and/or that 'her only claim to fame was writing speeches for Reagan."

You'll notice that not one acknowledged that bio which is quite impressive.

But hey, I do understand hero worship and I understand getting behind somebody and desperately wanting them to succeed. How many times have we rallied behind a sports team with hope upon hope until we just finally had to admit that the team sucked that year? I know I liked President Bush 43 a lot when he was elected, and I did my damndest to support him probably well past the point that I realistically could. At some point, however, I had to admit all the areas in which he was not meeting my expectations for him. Ditto for the GOP congress before they were booted in 2006.

Maybe it's still too early and most of us don't have as firm a finger on the pulse of the nation as a Peggy Noonan does. So they are still holding on to the messiah image and hope. It just hasn't gotten bad enough for them yet to push them to face reality.

 

[boedicca]

Yep. They are the ideological comrades of the poor idiot I see with his table by the Embarcadero BART station in SF from time to time - he's still selling Obama 2008 merchandise.

 

[mudwhistle]

When are folks going to wake up and understand it's not the President, it's the CONGRESS?

PELOSI/REID is the disaster, not Obama. This Congressional "leadership" is by far the WORST thing Obama "inherited" and it definitely shows.

Obama will sign anything and everything they send up to him....so he's part of it.

Also...let's not forget that Obama is the one telling the Democrats to grab their ankles over this health care bill anyway.

 

[Misty]

I remember being mad at noonan when she totally ripped on Bush's second inaugural speech.

Obama is screwing 90% of the country to help 10% of it.

 

[geauxtohell]

Scathing column from the normally even handed Peggy Noonan.

If you are an Obama supporter...OUCH.

I always appreciate when Peggy Noonan comes down from her Manhatten throne to tell us peasants what the deal is.

God love her, she embodies the country club wing of the GOP that the party has a love/hate relationship with.

Good to see that she has been forgiven for pointing out that Palin is dumb as bricks.

 

[saveliberty]

When are folks going to wake up and understand it's not the President, it's the CONGRESS?

PELOSI/REID is the disaster, not Obama. This Congressional "leadership" is by far the WORST thing Obama "inherited" and it definitely shows.

Oh please, health care reform was to be the crown jewel of 0bama's reign. The two offset stones were successful wins in Irag and Afghanistan. Well, at least he has that Peace Prize. Who ended up with that million dollar award?

 

[Misty]

Scathing column from the normally even handed Peggy Noonan.

If you are an Obama supporter...OUCH.

I always appreciate when Peggy Noonan comes down from her Manhatten throne to tell us peasants what the deal is.

God love her, she embodies the country club wing of the GOP that the party has a love/hate relationship with.

Good to see that she has been forgiven for pointing out that Palin is dumb as bricks.

She writes opinion pieces. Some opinions I agree with, others I don't.

That's the American way.