obama caves again

[Ravi]

The libs are dead wrong on this. Yes, it is a 1st Amendment issue, and the issue outweights any rights concerning reproduction for women. Harsh, yes. But the mandate was wrong, period.

No one is forcing the church to run a business.

The church runs "charities". It is a business like endevor, they use budgets (unlike the dems), planning and management to keep it running smoothly. Are you really, really suggesting that all the Christian charities just stop? And the left is always telling conservatives how they really care about the poor. The reaction to the church on this is very telling to exactly how the left FEELS about the poor.

They run non-profit organizations. They are free to do so but they are not free to have special rules, IMO.

They could meet their charitable "mandates" by having the priests hand out clothing and food to the poor.

 

[JoeB131]

I think those definitions demonstrate gov't and religion are NOT the same thing. But as a family member that benefited from generations of "church" money, why bother with the truth now. BTW: if the church was sooo corrupt, why did your family continue to work for them, why didn't they report what was being done? Isn't that like sleeping with someone of the same sex, and when confronted, accuse your partner of being a homosexual?

Well, no, not really.

They were paid to do a job. They did that job.

I'm paid to do a job. I think some of the things my company does are absolutely retarded. But I pick my battles judiciously.

And that's the point here. If you are paying me to do a job, I'll do it. Nothing says I have to share your beliefs if I think they are silly.

so its okay when you and yours do it? kinda like calling the kettle, black, pot

When you actually can make this relevent to the discussion, let me know, okay?

The issue is not my or my families loyalty to the employer. Most people I know think their employers are full of shit, and they are usually right.

Does an employer have a right to impose his beliefs on you in something that is not job related in any way.

If your boss found out you were a conservative, and he was a liberal, and he fired you for it, would that be right? Even if your job peformance was exemplary?

No, of course not.

 

[Liability]

No one is forcing the church to run a business.

The church runs "charities". It is a business like endevor, they use budgets (unlike the dems), planning and management to keep it running smoothly. Are you really, really suggesting that all the Christian charities just stop? And the left is always telling conservatives how they really care about the poor. The reaction to the church on this is very telling to exactly how the left FEELS about the poor.

They run non-profit organizations. They are free to do so but they are not free to have special rules, IMO.

They could meet their charitable "mandates" by having the priests hand out clothing and food to the poor.

SO now libs think they can direct HOW a charitable institution conducts charity including what they might choose to provide or refuse to provide.

 

[JoeB131]

I've said the same things direcly to religious people... Except they usually don't have the masochism to come back for more.

Here's the thing. If you keep your stupid, silly superstitions in the church where they belong, I don't have a problem with you.

It's when you try to impose them on the rest of us we are going to throw down.

You'd piss your pants in the first ten seconds.

No, really, I don't. In fact, most people already know not to discuss religion with me.

It will only end in tears...

 

[Liability]

I've said the same things direcly to religious people... Except they usually don't have the masochism to come back for more.

Here's the thing. If you keep your stupid, silly superstitions in the church where they belong, I don't have a problem with you.

It's when you try to impose them on the rest of us we are going to throw down.

You'd piss your pants in the first ten seconds.

No, really, I don't. In fact, most people already know not to discuss religion with me.

It will only end in tears...

Need a tissue?
















j/k

 

[Ravi]

The church runs "charities". It is a business like endevor, they use budgets (unlike the dems), planning and management to keep it running smoothly. Are you really, really suggesting that all the Christian charities just stop? And the left is always telling conservatives how they really care about the poor. The reaction to the church on this is very telling to exactly how the left FEELS about the poor.

They run non-profit organizations. They are free to do so but they are not free to have special rules, IMO.

They could meet their charitable "mandates" by having the priests hand out clothing and food to the poor.

SO now libs think they can direct HOW a charitable institution conducts charity including what they might choose to provide or refuse to provide.

So now Liarbility thinks he can twist the words of other posters to make a point?

Oh, wait, nothing unusual in that.

 

[Liability]

They run non-profit organizations. They are free to do so but they are not free to have special rules, IMO.

They could meet their charitable "mandates" by having the priests hand out clothing and food to the poor.

SO now libs think they can direct HOW a charitable institution conducts charity including what they might choose to provide or refuse to provide.

So now Liarbility thinks he can twist the words of other posters to make a point?

Oh, wait, nothing unusual in that.

So now Ravi is pretending that her words got twisted when, clearly, they weren't.

Oh wait. SOP for that sow.

 

[Papageorgio]

Didn't say that at all. In fact, Japan and every OTHER industrialized country spends LESS per person than we do.

But here's what they do right.

1) They don't have an insurance industry running at at 33% profit margin sucking resources out paying for jet planes and 8 figure salaries.

2) They have universal coverage.

It's really kind of simple.

Check the obeisty rate in Japan versus the US dumbass. We are sicker people due to our lifestyle in the US.

Okay, maybe you can get away with that nonsense with Japan, but, umm, The Canadians live about four years longer on average than we do... And they eat the same fattening crap we do. Now why is that?

Oh, wait. Could it be that they don't have one out of six people without health insurance? Hmmmmmm?

The US obesity rate is 74.1, Canada's Is 61.1 according to Forbes Magazine, and Canadians do eat a healthier diet than Americans. Japan's obesity rate is 22.6.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I agree the mandate was wrong, so why isn't it being repealed?

This isn't a first amendment issue. It's an issue of a really band trend in government. Our laws should be principled rules that apply to everyone and have justice as their goal, not negotiated power struggles among the 'vested interests'. And whether or not we must follow those rules shouldn't depend on membership in a powerful organization.

It absolutely is a First Amendment issue. It's the 'free exercise thereof'. To those of us who follow a faith, charity is absolutely fundamental to our core beliefs. It is what Christ told us to do. It's in the Bible, and it's in the First Amendment. That you don't understand those principles, those core beliefs, is immaterial. It is our right to practice our faith without government creating laws that stop us from doing that without compromising our beliefs. We cannot fund birth control, it is against our religion. But we must be charitable... all our charities are founded in Christ's teachings. Ergo, they are protected by the First Amendment.

You're so deluded. The Catholic church can run charities. When they run a business, however, they are subject to the same laws that govern other businesses. They are free to run charities in some other manner.

A church in a secular engagement as a CHURCH does not divorce itself from 1st Amendment protection, Ravi. The liberal shtick of secularism on this issue simply will not work.

 

[saveliberty]

Didn't say that at all. In fact, Japan and every OTHER industrialized country spends LESS per person than we do.

But here's what they do right.

1) They don't have an insurance industry running at at 33% profit margin sucking resources out paying for jet planes and 8 figure salaries.

2) They have universal coverage.

It's really kind of simple.

Check the obeisty rate in Japan versus the US dumbass. We are sicker people due to our lifestyle in the US.

Okay, maybe you can get away with that nonsense with Japan, but, umm, The Canadians live about four years longer on average than we do... And they eat the same fattening crap we do. Now why is that?

Oh, wait. Could it be that they don't have one out of six people without health insurance? Hmmmmmm?

A smart person would have taken my post and done some research. The cause and effect of obeisty is pretty well known. Statistics aren't that hard to come by either. Intellectual laziness on your part is telling.

 

[logical4u]

No one is forcing the church to run a business.

The church runs "charities". It is a business like endevor, they use budgets (unlike the dems), planning and management to keep it running smoothly. Are you really, really suggesting that all the Christian charities just stop? And the left is always telling conservatives how they really care about the poor. The reaction to the church on this is very telling to exactly how the left FEELS about the poor.

They run non-profit organizations. They are free to do so but they are not free to have special rules, IMO.

They could meet their charitable "mandates" by having the priests hand out clothing and food to the poor.

Ravi, the wannabe DICTATOR is going to "tell" people how to be charitable. How did the world ever make it this far without "you"?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Obama just showed more of his idiocy here.

He says the church won't be required to pay for birth control or abortion but the insurance companies must still offer those services for "free" to women who are not offered those services through their employer provided insurance.

We all know there is no such thing as "free" why doesn't Obama the supposedly smartest president ever know that?

Did he say free? I thought he said with no copay. Do you have the same objections to the other things that insurances must offer without copay?

And if so, why? If you must have insurance to receive decent medical care why is it wrong to make insurance companies cover preventative care without copay?

If the service is not covered by the policy and there is no copay, is that not free?

 

[logical4u]

Well, no, not really.

They were paid to do a job. They did that job.

I'm paid to do a job. I think some of the things my company does are absolutely retarded. But I pick my battles judiciously.

And that's the point here. If you are paying me to do a job, I'll do it. Nothing says I have to share your beliefs if I think they are silly.

so its okay when you and yours do it? kinda like calling the kettle, black, pot

When you actually can make this relevent to the discussion, let me know, okay?

The issue is not my or my families loyalty to the employer. Most people I know think their employers are full of shit, and they are usually right.

Does an employer have a right to impose his beliefs on you in something that is not job related in any way.

If your boss found out you were a conservative, and he was a liberal, and he fired you for it, would that be right? Even if your job peformance was exemplary?

No, of course not.

That is exactly what the administration is doing: as long as you work for a Catholic institution and are Catholic, you can "give" (voluntary) health care the way you want it. The first time the Catholic institution fires people because they are not Catholic (or offers benefits they approve, to only Catholic employees), the left is going to scream "discrimmination". The administration is ordering them to go against their beliefs or to discrimminate. The administration is evil.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I don't buy that line of thinking.

An employer should be able to set the terms of his own benefits package. If that benefit package is unacceptable to an applicant they don't have to take the job.

It's none of the government's business.

Have you ever worked a job where the full parameters of everything that was going to happen to you was set down in the orientation? I haven't. Usually, it's how many things they lied to me about.

If those people go to Congress and say,"Hey, we think that insurance plans SHOULD include coverage for X", then Congress has the power to regulate that.

Every job I ever had I took the time to find out what was in the benefit package.

If you didn't bother to do the same then it's no one's fault but your own.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Check the obeisty rate in Japan versus the US dumbass. We are sicker people due to our lifestyle in the US.

Okay, maybe you can get away with that nonsense with Japan, but, umm, The Canadians live about four years longer on average than we do... And they eat the same fattening crap we do. Now why is that?

Oh, wait. Could it be that they don't have one out of six people without health insurance? Hmmmmmm?

A smart person would have taken my post and done some research. The cause and effect of obeisty is pretty well known. Statistics aren't that hard to come by either. Intellectual laziness on your part is telling.

The intellectual laziness comes when offering an alternative without support. That is merely an assertion without support, saveliberty. Let's see some solid evidence.

 

[The T]

I don't buy that line of thinking.

An employer should be able to set the terms of his own benefits package. If that benefit package is unacceptable to an applicant they don't have to take the job.

It's none of the government's business.

Have you ever worked a job where the full parameters of everything that was going to happen to you was set down in the orientation? I haven't. Usually, it's how many things they lied to me about.

If those people go to Congress and say,"Hey, we think that insurance plans SHOULD include coverage for X", then Congress has the power to regulate that.

Wrong answer dumbass. Congress should keep it's noses out of private contracts as we see how they take it and take control over it making them part of the tyranny.

If a person isn't smart enough to understand the contract/ They shouldn't sign on to it.

YOU propose to cede your liberty and decision making to those whom could give a tinker's damn of you with the exception of election day.

 

[del]

I've said the same things direcly to religious people... Except they usually don't have the masochism to come back for more.

Here's the thing. If you keep your stupid, silly superstitions in the church where they belong, I don't have a problem with you.

It's when you try to impose them on the rest of us we are going to throw down.

You'd piss your pants in the first ten seconds.

No, really, I don't. In fact, most people already know not to discuss religion with me.

It will only end in tears...

tissue?

 

[saveliberty]

Okay, maybe you can get away with that nonsense with Japan, but, umm, The Canadians live about four years longer on average than we do... And they eat the same fattening crap we do. Now why is that?

Oh, wait. Could it be that they don't have one out of six people without health insurance? Hmmmmmm?

A smart person would have taken my post and done some research. The cause and effect of obeisty is pretty well known. Statistics aren't that hard to come by either. Intellectual laziness on your part is telling.

The intellectual laziness comes when offering an alternative without support. That is merely an assertion without support, saveliberty. Let's see some solid evidence.

Please feel free to apply the bold part.

 

[JoeB131]

A smart person would have taken my post and done some research. The cause and effect of obeisty is pretty well known. Statistics aren't that hard to come by either. Intellectual laziness on your part is telling.

No, a smart person recognizes someone who's been sniffin' Limbaugh's rectal gases for so long you can't take anything he says seriously.

HOw about the infant mortality rate? Ours is not only higher than the rest of the industrialized world, we are behind countries like Cuba. Oh, wait, the sniffers got an answer to that one, too. It's because they aren't counting premies like we are.

The US has the world's highest obesity rate at 30%. BUt the UK is right behind us at 23%. so you'd think that they be doing as badly as we are, right?

Obesity statistics - Countries Compared - NationMaster

Nope. They are well ahead of us at 25th place in LE compared to 35th place for us.

Sorry, access to the system is a problem. Not just for those who don't have insurance, but the poor who have inadeqate insurance.

There's really no excuse for the country having the system we have other than a lot of assholes are getting rich off it....

 

[JoeB131]

You'd piss your pants in the first ten seconds.

No, really, I don't. In fact, most people already know not to discuss religion with me.

It will only end in tears...

tissue?

Only ones crying are the ones who find out there's no Sky Pixie..