obama caves again

[saveliberty]

Didn't say that at all. In fact, Japan and every OTHER industrialized country spends LESS per person than we do.

But here's what they do right.

1) They don't have an insurance industry running at at 33% profit margin sucking resources out paying for jet planes and 8 figure salaries.

2) They have universal coverage.

It's really kind of simple.

Check the obeisty rate in Japan versus the US dumbass. We are sicker people due to our lifestyle in the US.

 

[California Girl]

Didn't say that at all. In fact, Japan and every OTHER industrialized country spends LESS per person than we do.

But here's what they do right.

1) They don't have an insurance industry running at at 33% profit margin sucking resources out paying for jet planes and 8 figure salaries.

2) They have universal coverage.

It's really kind of simple.

Check the obeisty rate in Japan versus the US dumbass. We are sicker people due to our lifestyle in the US.

Don't confuse them with logic, Save. It's not 'fair'.

 

[saveliberty]

Since when did I promise these people fair. There's a whole internet out there. They don't want the truth, visit a porn site. FOr God sakes, buy protection!

 

[California Girl]

Some may argue other factors contributed to mortality besides equitable and affordable health care. Probably no more than in Japan or Great Britain or New Zealand or Tawain. Yes, inevitably, we will find out. I do not doubt the inevitability of universal health care in the U.S, and I have no doubt that which makes the U.S. exceptional will remain untouched.

That is bullshit. We are the most obese nation in the world. It's our fucking lifestyle, not our health care system that is a problem. So, what? Are we gonna regulate how people eat? Forced exercise?

Love the way you'll throw the Constitution under the bus... you're no better than the left.

 

[saveliberty]

Isn't it intersting that people outside religion know us better than we know ourselves. They also feel they are entitled to tell us what and how to think.

 

[francoHFW]

A. The obesity problem hasn't even hit the health system yet LOLOLOL.
B. Logic? You're a GD moron.
C."Massachusetts, under Romney, did the same thing as the ACA would. So does Georgia (and 28 other states). More Pubcrappe for the dupes, with Catholic priests doing what they're told to- don't want to be excommunicated, while 98% of CATHOLIC women use birth control.They already have a year waiver, and Dems have said enforcement would be weak. That'll be nothing compared to the protests of the women involved LOL! "
D. Pub dupes are brainwashed MORONS. tyvm

 

[Ravi]

The libs are dead wrong on this. Yes, it is a 1st Amendment issue, and the issue outweights any rights concerning reproduction for women. Harsh, yes. But the mandate was wrong, period.

No one is forcing the church to run a business.

 

[Ravi]

The libs are dead wrong on this. Yes, it is a 1st Amendment issue, and the issue outweights any rights concerning reproduction for women. Harsh, yes. But the mandate was wrong, period.

I agree the mandate was wrong, so why isn't it being repealed?

This isn't a first amendment issue. It's an issue of a really band trend in government. Our laws should be principled rules that apply to everyone and have justice as their goal, not negotiated power struggles among the 'vested interests'. And whether or not we must follow those rules shouldn't depend on membership in a powerful organization.

Thank you for this rational statement.

Though I disagree it should be repealed. I think preventative care should be paid for through one's insurance.

 

[Ravi]

The libs are dead wrong on this. Yes, it is a 1st Amendment issue, and the issue outweights any rights concerning reproduction for women. Harsh, yes. But the mandate was wrong, period.

I agree the mandate was wrong, so why isn't it being repealed?

This isn't a first amendment issue. It's an issue of a really band trend in government. Our laws should be principled rules that apply to everyone and have justice as their goal, not negotiated power struggles among the 'vested interests'. And whether or not we must follow those rules shouldn't depend on membership in a powerful organization.

It absolutely is a First Amendment issue. It's the 'free exercise thereof'. To those of us who follow a faith, charity is absolutely fundamental to our core beliefs. It is what Christ told us to do. It's in the Bible, and it's in the First Amendment. That you don't understand those principles, those core beliefs, is immaterial. It is our right to practice our faith without government creating laws that stop us from doing that without compromising our beliefs. We cannot fund birth control, it is against our religion. But we must be charitable... all our charities are founded in Christ's teachings. Ergo, they are protected by the First Amendment.

You're so deluded. The Catholic church can run charities. When they run a business, however, they are subject to the same laws that govern other businesses. They are free to run charities in some other manner.

 

[Ravi]

Respect for the First Amendment is an 'old fashioned attitude'?

I don't care how many times you repeat it, this is not a first amendment issue.

Can you tell me which part of the constitution actually covers churches then?

The church is excluded from this mandate. Their businesses are not. It really is pretty simple.

I can't run a business and state that my religion forbids me from paying taxes.

 

[Ravi]

I don't understand your point. My point is that when Obama forces the insurance providers to pay for contraceptives, sterilization and abortifacients, he's still forcing Catholic institutions to pay for things which they believe to be contrary to the will of God.

The shift from employer to insurer does not solve the first amendment problem when the insurer is the Catholic church.

Companies that are self-insured have been exempt all along from health care mandates.

Up to this point in time that is true, but that will change very soon.

It is my understanding that the mandates only cover for profit insurers and not companies that self insure but if you have a link to evidence to the contrary I'll take a look at it.

 

[JoeB131]

It isn't a first Amendment issue. Nothing in this ruling restricts their ability to practice their base and silly superstitions.

They just can't impose them on other people. Which is how it should be.

The Catholic Church doesn't run schools or hospitals as a matter of faith, they do it to make money.

And once it becomes about the money, the faith isn't an issue anymore. Then it simply becomes a matter of commerce.

"Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" - someone said that once.

You are obviously a catholic hater, so your opinions on this are meaningless... not to mention inaccurate.

Three generations of my family have worked for the corrupt, evil Church. It's a business. It's always about a business, about separating stupid people from their money. Really, all religions are. The Catholics have been at it longer, so they are better at it.

Just because you wrap your greed in vestments doesn't make it less greedy.

They should be treated like every other business. Taxed, regulated and subject to fraud laws.

 

[JoeB131]

Didn't say that at all. In fact, Japan and every OTHER industrialized country spends LESS per person than we do.

But here's what they do right.

1) They don't have an insurance industry running at at 33% profit margin sucking resources out paying for jet planes and 8 figure salaries.

2) They have universal coverage.

It's really kind of simple.

Check the obeisty rate in Japan versus the US dumbass. We are sicker people due to our lifestyle in the US.

Okay, maybe you can get away with that nonsense with Japan, but, umm, The Canadians live about four years longer on average than we do... And they eat the same fattening crap we do. Now why is that?

Oh, wait. Could it be that they don't have one out of six people without health insurance? Hmmmmmm?

 

[logical4u]

If the Catholic church was in it for the money, they would not need donations to keep the hospitals going, but don't let the truth get in your way of a good (NOT) story.

You mean the Church is very good at separating stupid people from their money? Well, they should be, they've been at it for 2000 years.

As is the left talented at seperating people from their liberty, and they use similar techniques. The same ones that bash 'institutionalized religion' bow down, low to the alter of 'institutionalized bureaucracy'.

 

[The T]

If the Catholic church was in it for the money, they would not need donations to keep the hospitals going, but don't let the truth get in your way of a good (NOT) story.

You mean the Church is very good at separating stupid people from their money? Well, they should be, they've been at it for 2000 years.

As is the left talented at seperating people from their liberty, and they use similar techniques. The same ones that bash 'institutionalized religion' bow down, low to the alter of 'institutionalized bureaucracy'.

Indeed. Some worship at the alter of big government.

 

[logical4u]

Actually, you are both wrong. You are assuming that health care spending directly contributes to longer life, which is ridiculous, and directly contradicted by Jake's claims. It is as stupid as arguing we need to spend more money on education because we spend more per student than any other nation and score lower on tests than they do. Examine the data, educate yourself, and come back and tell me why Jake is wrong.

Either that, or come back and tell me he is right again, and I will educate you myself. I have a few posts lying around here explaining why that is wrong if you prefer to cheat, go look them up.

Didn't say that at all. In fact, Japan and every OTHER industrialized country spends LESS per person than we do.

But here's what they do right.

1) They don't have an insurance industry running at at 33% profit margin sucking resources out paying for jet planes and 8 figure salaries.

2) They have universal coverage.

It's really kind of simple.

Wonder how many of the Japanese are getting: breast implants, penile impants, cosmetic surgery, laser eye surgery, dental work for cosmetic reasons, etc. You guys are soooo dishonest about the cost of health care in this country compared to others, that people cannot take you seriously.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Obama just showed more of his idiocy here.

He says the church won't be required to pay for birth control or abortion but the insurance companies must still offer those services for "free" to women who are not offered those services through their employer provided insurance.

We all know there is no such thing as "free" why doesn't Obama the supposedly smartest president ever know that?

 

[JoeB131]

If the Catholic church was in it for the money, they would not need donations to keep the hospitals going, but don't let the truth get in your way of a good (NOT) story.

You mean the Church is very good at separating stupid people from their money? Well, they should be, they've been at it for 2000 years.

As is the left talented at seperating people from their liberty, and they use similar techniques. The same ones that bash 'institutionalized religion' bow down, low to the alter of 'institutionalized bureaucracy'.

Really? I haven't met any of these people who "worship" government.

Can you point them out to me, please.

There are people who think that government should do certain things. They are called "Democrats" and "Republicans".

Sorry, the "you do it, too" argument doesn't work here. We have a process. A law was passed and signed. If you don't like the law, go to Congress and get it changed.

 

[logical4u]

The libs are dead wrong on this. Yes, it is a 1st Amendment issue, and the issue outweights any rights concerning reproduction for women. Harsh, yes. But the mandate was wrong, period.

No one is forcing the church to run a business.

The church runs "charities". It is a business like endevor, they use budgets (unlike the dems), planning and management to keep it running smoothly. Are you really, really suggesting that all the Christian charities just stop? And the left is always telling conservatives how they really care about the poor. The reaction to the church on this is very telling to exactly how the left FEELS about the poor.

 

[JoeB131]

Obama just showed more of his idiocy here.

He says the church won't be required to pay for birth control or abortion but the insurance companies must still offer those services for "free" to women who are not offered those services through their employer provided insurance.

We all know there is no such thing as "free" why doesn't Obama the supposedly smartest president ever know that?

Actually, it's been found that offering family planning services are revenue nuetral. This was the case when the Government mandated that their carriers include it. The costs of paying the minimal amount for birth control is offset by the savings of not paying for unplanned pregnancies.

This was never a "cost" issue. The insurance companies aren't complaining about the cost and even the Church wasn't complaining about the cost aspects.

This was a "I want to impose my religious beliefs on you because I sign your paycheck" kind of issue. Last time I checked, Massa Lincoln freed the slaves.