Obama set's back Iran's nuclear program by years

[BlackAsCoal]

Ahhh .. my bad .. it did go over my head.

Sorry, my apologies.

No problem. that would be the first thing we've agreed on.

A computer virus is like a regular virus. Once it's out, you can only treat the infected.



I also did a ahort study on the use of war dogs, b/c I wondered why they weren't used more often.

Turns out, if the trianers are killed, the dogs don't know who thier freinds are and won't actually accept food as a bribe to play nice, so they end up attacking anyone that comes along b/c they follow the last order given until dead.

Sorta off topic..but you can coax most dogs out of their training. Takes a great deal of time and patience..but it's possible.

It is possible to coax SOME dogs out of their training, but when you're talking about a trained aggressive dog that is conditioned to act on its own, there aren't a lot of people that can or would even take the time or risk to do it .. and most can never be fully trusted around children or strangers again.

It all depends on the type of training they get.

An area guard dog is not a police dog which is not a personal protection dog which is not a military dog.

 

[MaggieMae]

Ahhh .. my bad .. it did go over my head.

Sorry, my apologies.

No problem. that would be the first thing we've agreed on.

A computer virus is like a regular virus. Once it's out, you can only treat the infected.

I also did a ahort study on the use of war dogs, b/c I wondered why they weren't used more often.

Turns out, if the trianers are killed, the dogs don't know who thier freinds are and won't actually accept food as a bribe to play nice, so they end up attacking anyone that comes along b/c they follow the last order given until dead.

Not trying to make excuses for my stupid, but that's why it went over my head.

As someone who has trained dogs, including protection dogs for many years, there is a lot of validity to what you say. That has even been the experience of many police dogs.

Aggressive dogs require an alpha. When the alpha is no longer there, they become alpha or they go into a deep depression.

I love this:

 

[Two Thumbs]

I'm certain its illegal (I'm ok with it, though) but I don't believe it's a war crime as defined by the War Crimes Act.

Torture is though.

As is cruel or inhuman treatment.

United States Code: Title 18,2441. War crimes | LII / Legal Information Institute

who's the war mongering war criminal again?

whatcha say rightie?

You talking about Bush?

A crimes a crime. If he had something to do with it, he needs to be charged.

As gruesome as this will sound

I'm not against torture, not at all.

A gang of people have one of my kids and I have ahold of a person that knows where my kid is but won't talk no matter how kind I am.

I wonder how far I would go to get the info needed out of him, given the chance.

So when they are waterboarding murderers that know when other peoples kids will be killed, I'm ok with that.

And you can send me to jail after I save lives.

Or you've gone on a wild goose chase after the perp tells a bunch of lies just to stop the torture.

I will then return to get the proper info.

Don't be nieve, everyone breaks

 

[BlackAsCoal]

No problem. that would be the first thing we've agreed on.

A computer virus is like a regular virus. Once it's out, you can only treat the infected.

I also did a ahort study on the use of war dogs, b/c I wondered why they weren't used more often.

Turns out, if the trianers are killed, the dogs don't know who thier freinds are and won't actually accept food as a bribe to play nice, so they end up attacking anyone that comes along b/c they follow the last order given until dead.

Not trying to make excuses for my stupid, but that's why it went over my head.

As someone who has trained dogs, including protection dogs for many years, there is a lot of validity to what you say. That has even been the experience of many police dogs.

Aggressive dogs require an alpha. When the alpha is no longer there, they become alpha or they go into a deep depression.

I love this:

THAT my wise sister is beautiful. That is training.

Makes my heart flutter.

Thanks.

 

[MaggieMae]

Don't even bother with that nonsense. It's one of those trivial untruths that the fringers just love to still repeat.

Well yeah..and the fact there were many in the government that did not want the internet to be set up for public use. Al Gore changed that mindset.

Any proof of this statement?
Cosidering when the internet was actually "created" Gore had nothing to do with it. He was just trying to make himself look better than his opponent.

Huh? The exploration of the information highway began in the 80's when Gore was just a Congressman.

 

[Jarhead]

I'm certain its illegal (I'm ok with it, though) but I don't believe it's a war crime as defined by the War Crimes Act.

Torture is though.

As is cruel or inhuman treatment.

United States Code: Title 18,2441. War crimes | LII / Legal Information Institute

who's the war mongering war criminal again?

whatcha say rightie?

You talking about Bush?

A crimes a crime. If he had something to do with it, he needs to be charged.

As gruesome as this will sound

I'm not against torture, not at all.

A gang of people have one of my kids and I have ahold of a person that knows where my kid is but won't talk no matter how kind I am.

I wonder how far I would go to get the info needed out of him, given the chance.

So when they are waterboarding murderers that know when other peoples kids will be killed, I'm ok with that.

And you can send me to jail after I save lives.

Or you've gone on a wild goose chase after the perp tells a bunch of lies just to stop the torture.

OK...

and the alternative is to do what?

Say pretty please?

Maggie....TM opted not to answer...so I will ask you..

If you were being tortured to give your ATM card PIN number and told that if the number you gave uis wrong things would be worse for you...

Would you give the number?

Maggie....Ideologues say torture doesnt work becuase as they put it "it doesnt work"

Logic, however says it DOES work....and it is proven by putting yourself in a positon of being tortured for info.

Would you hold back?

 

[rdean]

yeah, because when a republican sits in the WH, all technological advances stop

Pretty much.

Survey Finds Bush Administration Interfering with EPA Scientists

Survey Finds Bush Administration Interfering with EPA Scientists

By J.R. Pegg
WASHINGTON, DC, April 24, 2008 (ENS) - The Bush administration has frequently meddled with scientists at the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, according to a survey released today by a scientific advocacy group. The Union of Concerned Scientists reports that nearly two-thirds of the 1,586 staff EPA scientists who responded to a questionnaire complained of recent political interference with their work.

The reported interference is greatest in offices where scientists write regulations and conduct risk assessments.

"Our investigation found an agency in crisis," said Francesca Grifo, director of Union of Concerned Scientists's Scientific Integrity Program, who contends the report reflects an effort by the administration to distort science to "accommodate a narrow political agenda."

Bush covers up climate research | Environment | The Observer

Bush covers up climate research
White House officials play down its own scientists' evidence of global warming

In their letter the FDA dissidents alleged that agency managers use intimidation to squelch scientific debate, leading to the approval of medical devices whose effectiveness is questionable and which may not be entirely safe.

"Managers with incompatible, discordant and irrelevant scientific and clinical expertise in devices...have ignored serious safety and effectiveness concerns of FDA experts," the letter said. "Managers have ordered, intimidated and coerced FDA experts to modify scientific evaluations, conclusions and recommendations in violation of the laws, rules and regulations, and to accept clinical and technical data that is not scientifically valid."

FDA Scientists Complain to Obama of 'Corruption' | Crooks and Liars

EPA scientist is an oxymoron. Shouldn't you have to do more than collect pond water in your mom's old mayonnaise jars to be a scientist?

I love it when I point out that conservatives have a low opinion of science and scientists and them right wingers call me liar and stupid for saying that and then people, such as yourself, make my case.

Even funnier? You get people to hit the "Thanks for this post" button.

I appreciate the support.

 

[MaggieMae]

From my "little book of facts";

In all of recorded human history, there has been world peace for 2% of that time.



Just look back at history, who did we learn about in history class?
The peacemakers? HA!
We learned to admire who was better at killing other people.

The only difference between now and then is we can kill more faster with cool special effects.

The US has also killed off more people and foreign leaders by it's covert activities than you'll ever find in traditional textbooks. But that's probably a good thing. I could never understand why we didn't just take out Saddam Hussein by a CIA coup, and then deny any involvement.

 

[MaggieMae]

Sure. And what happens when the entire area becomes a cloud of nuclear dust, Saudi Arabia's oil wells and refineries are shut down, and the price of your fucking gas goes to $20.00 a gallon? That is, IF you even have a car (or yourself) left to pump the gas once nukes are lobbed at this country and/or that cloud reaches us.

Forget that Maggie...what about the millions of innocent people...including children...that will die as a result of such a horrific act.

Maggie...you dont need to use "inconvenience" as a means to open the eyes of most of the right to the horros of war. We get it. We are not what you want to paint us out to be.

In that case, I was merely responding to the ignorance of the post (assuming it wasn't satirical).

 

[MaggieMae]

Because "I took the initiative in creating the Internet" can easily be spun into "I invented the internet"...

And the truth is, you dont even need to spin "I took the initiative in creating the Internet"....the words alone IN THAT ORDER can easily mean that he is taking claim to inventing the interent.

"Inventing" means something entirely different from "initiating the creation." Gore obviously didn't have the scientific nor technical academic background to "invent" the Internet. But he was the first legislator to promote the concept in a manner others could understand, based on the science and technology (just as he did with "An Inconvenient Truth").

Internet pioneers Vint Cerf and Bob Kahn noted that, "as far back as the 1970s, Congressman Gore promoted the idea of high speed telecommunications as an engine for both economic growth and the improvement of our educational system. He was the first elected official to grasp the potential of computer communications to have a broader impact than just improving the conduct of science and scholarship [...]

24 Jun 1986: Albert Gore introduce S 2594 Supercomputer Network Study Act of 1986.[51] As another example, he sponsored hearings on how advanced technologies might be put to use in areas like coordinating the response of government agencies to natural disasters and other crises."[52]

Al Gore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I know Maggie.
It became a line for political humor.
Just like Sara Palins "I can see Russia from my house".

The difference is...I saw it as humor with Gore....but many saw it as "fact" with Palin.

No, they didn't. There really are more smart people than stupid people on both sides of the fence. (Thank God.)

 

[Jarhead]

From my "little book of facts";

In all of recorded human history, there has been world peace for 2% of that time.



Just look back at history, who did we learn about in history class?
The peacemakers? HA!
We learned to admire who was better at killing other people.

The only difference between now and then is we can kill more faster with cool special effects.

The US has also killed off more people and foreign leaders by it's covert activities than you'll ever find in traditional textbooks. But that's probably a good thing. I could never understand why we didn't just take out Saddam Hussein by a CIA coup, and then deny any involvement.

I thought it was quite obvious...

Becuase GHWB and GWB wanted a confilct that resulted in as many civilian causalites as possible.

Sadly, the Gulf War didn't do that....so the Bush's waited out the clinton years, and then GWB brainstormed with his dad and Cheney and created 9-11....

And well...the rest is history....

 

[MaggieMae]

Anyway..... The Iranians now know we can compromise any system at any time. Unless they can invent an operating system from scratch, and write their own code to run the centrifuges, we can do this over and over.

This may mean they have to buy whole new computer systems, whole new software for the machinery.... It is expensive just for that.

And when it comes right down to it..... We can do this to any electronic system they have. With something similar, if Obama wanted to, he could turn all of Tehan's lights off from the oval office. He could do more damage to Iran without causing a singe shot to be fired than we could do with any number of bombs, missiles or tanks.
It is a nice little warning to the Chinese and the Russians as well.

Maybe so, but I still worry who (and when) these characters will set loose their worms upon, or will they simply shut down all computer capability. This article is long, bedside reading, but it will give you nightmares.

The Enemy Within - Magazine - The Atlantic
When the Conficker computer “worm” was unleashed on the world in November 2008, cyber-security experts didn’t know what to make of it. It infiltrated millions of computers around the globe. It constantly checks in with its unknown creators. It uses an encryption code so sophisticated that only a very few people could have deployed it. For the first time ever, the cyber-security elites of the world have joined forces in a high-tech game of cops and robbers, trying to find Conficker’s creators and defeat them. The cops are failing. And now the worm lies there, waiting …

 

[MaggieMae]

If you think the internet would not have happened w/o Gore, you're deluded


wait

Never mind..

Nobody has ever claimed that, nor will they. But hey, carry on. Maybe you'll start a whole new series of Gore-bashing threads. I'd actually like to see some of those because I'll bet not a single one of you even knows why you hate him so much, other than he wrote another book based on scientific analysis. And that he has a stodgy personality.

huh?
How many Gore threads do you see on this site?
Now lets compare to how many Palin threads there are?

One WAS VP...the other ran for VP
Both are in the limelight by choice.

Yet you criiticize the few that bash Gore?

DO you do the same to those that bash Palin?

Gore isn't in the limelight 24/7 the way Palin is. When he had his book published, then the movie, you can bet he was the subject of a ton of threads. And please note that I said I'd "like to see" threads bashing Gore, not that there are some still existing.

 

[MaggieMae]

Putting aside the rhetoric...

It is no doubt a smart move to avoid a military action.
But...
It is no doubt reason for Iran to declare a war against us.

Will be interesting to see how "sane" that guy is..

And yes, I know his name, but cant spell it...so I went with "that guy"....

Achmedinejad is just a noisy figurehead. The Mullahs run the country, along with the Revolutionary Guard. The Mullahs do the politics, the Guard does the citizen maintenance.

And Bin Laden was not capable of attacking our shores.

We knew he was, but just didn't believe he'd do it. Big difference. In fact, a Pentagon study in 1998, I believe, even involved war games that imagined commericial planes being used as weapons. Frankly, I don't think any amount of intelligence could have prevented the attacks, if not on September 11th, then on some other date, because al-Qaeda operatives who planned the attacks were spread all over the globe and to predict the attacks on a given day would have meant completing the jigsaw puzzle. We knew it would happen, just not when and exactly how. Read some of the stuff Richard Clarke has published to find out how enigmatic this particular enemy was, and is.

 

[Jarhead]

Nobody has ever claimed that, nor will they. But hey, carry on. Maybe you'll start a whole new series of Gore-bashing threads. I'd actually like to see some of those because I'll bet not a single one of you even knows why you hate him so much, other than he wrote another book based on scientific analysis. And that he has a stodgy personality.

huh?
How many Gore threads do you see on this site?
Now lets compare to how many Palin threads there are?

One WAS VP...the other ran for VP
Both are in the limelight by choice.

Yet you criiticize the few that bash Gore?

DO you do the same to those that bash Palin?

Gore isn't in the limelight 24/7 the way Palin is. When he had his book published, then the movie, you can bet he was the subject of a ton of threads. And please note that I said I'd "like to see" threads bashing Gore, not that there are some still existing.

Gore is in the limelight as often as Palin. He did not just write a book and a movie...he gives speeches, seminars, press conferecnes; has a wbsite, etc....just like Palin.

The difference is, the right does not attack every single word he says...and why? The right is not afraid of him. He is not a political threat anymore.

But it is disingenuous to imply that Gore only has a book and a movie and Palin has so much more. You only know of Palin's more bceuase the left AND the media bring it out into the open for ALL of us to hear about.

I have never wathced Palin's reality show nor have I ever read her tweets.....but I know all about them.

 

[Jarhead]

Achmedinejad is just a noisy figurehead. The Mullahs run the country, along with the Revolutionary Guard. The Mullahs do the politics, the Guard does the citizen maintenance.

And Bin Laden was not capable of attacking our shores.

We knew he was, but just didn't believe he'd do it. Big difference. In fact, a Pentagon study in 1998, I believe, even involved war games that imagined commericial planes being used as weapons. Frankly, I don't think any amount of intelligence could have prevented the attacks, if not on September 11th, then on some other date, because al-Qaeda operatives who planned the attacks were spread all over the globe and to predict the attacks on a given day would have meant completing the jigsaw puzzle. We knew it would happen, just not when and exactly how. Read some of the stuff Richard Clarke has published to find out how enigmatic this particular enemy was, and is.

That was my point Maggie.

Likewise, we know all about Achmedinejad....but we just dont believe he has the political power to do it.

Just as we believed Bin Laden wouldn't do it.

 

[MaggieMae]

No, they have not started a war....but as we are seeing, they sure know how to egg people on.

And you don't think Iran has been egging us on for years with their continued threats and enhancement of their nuclear capability? It's time we became PROactive on many things, Iran included, without the necessity of blowing things up first.

Uh....Maggie....sort of what we did?
Thus the thread that cirticizes THAT action as well.

When has the US threatened to use nuclear weapons against Iran? For years, the US has led the way for nonproliferation not threats by boasting our capabilities if one country or another doesn't shape up. It's called detente, and when Iran shows that it wants to join the rest of the world by trying to save it from nuclear holocaust, then nothing like covert hacking will even be necessary.

 

[Jarhead]

And you don't think Iran has been egging us on for years with their continued threats and enhancement of their nuclear capability? It's time we became PROactive on many things, Iran included, without the necessity of blowing things up first.

Uh....Maggie....sort of what we did?
Thus the thread that cirticizes THAT action as well.

When has the US threatened to use nuclear weapons against Iran? For years, the US has led the way for nonproliferation not threats by boasting our capabilities if one country or another doesn't shape up. It's called detente, and when Iran shows that it wants to join the rest of the world by trying to save it from nuclear holocaust, then nothing like covert hacking will even be necessary.

lol...I think we are on the same side of this debate Maggie.

 

[Sallow]

You talking about Bush?

A crimes a crime. If he had something to do with it, he needs to be charged.

As gruesome as this will sound

I'm not against torture, not at all.

A gang of people have one of my kids and I have ahold of a person that knows where my kid is but won't talk no matter how kind I am.

I wonder how far I would go to get the info needed out of him, given the chance.

So when they are waterboarding murderers that know when other peoples kids will be killed, I'm ok with that.

And you can send me to jail after I save lives.

Or you've gone on a wild goose chase after the perp tells a bunch of lies just to stop the torture.

OK...

and the alternative is to do what?

Say pretty please?

Maggie....TM opted not to answer...so I will ask you..

If you were being tortured to give your ATM card PIN number and told that if the number you gave uis wrong things would be worse for you...

Would you give the number?

Maggie....Ideologues say torture doesnt work becuase as they put it "it doesnt work"

Logic, however says it DOES work....and it is proven by putting yourself in a positon of being tortured for info.

Would you hold back?

It's a "negative sum" gain...overall. One might be able to glean some useful information but torture:

-Is Unconstitutional.
-Is a recruitment tool for terrorists.
-Cedes the moral high ground to the opposition (Terrorist or not).
-Is a pathway down a very slippery slope toward Tyranny.

It's repulsive and never should be used.

 

[Jarhead]

Or you've gone on a wild goose chase after the perp tells a bunch of lies just to stop the torture.

OK...

and the alternative is to do what?

Say pretty please?

Maggie....TM opted not to answer...so I will ask you..

If you were being tortured to give your ATM card PIN number and told that if the number you gave uis wrong things would be worse for you...

Would you give the number?

Maggie....Ideologues say torture doesnt work becuase as they put it "it doesnt work"

Logic, however says it DOES work....and it is proven by putting yourself in a positon of being tortured for info.

Would you hold back?

It's a "negative sum" gain...overall. One might be able to glean some useful information but torture:

-Is Unconstitutional.
-Is a recruitment tool for terrorists.
-Cedes the moral high ground to the opposition (Terrorist or not).
-Is a pathway down a very slippery slope toward Tyranny.

It's repulsive and never should be used.

Then I would like to ask you...

If you knew your child's life was in danger and you knew there was a possible way to save his life by waterboarding the accessory to the kidnapping...

And again...I say waterbording as it has been proven to be emotionally distressing but not physically dibilitating nor does iut have long term emotional affects...

Would you not use the tactic if nothing else was working and time was running out?