Obamacare Economy: 7 Years, 16 million Jobs Created, Middle Class Incomes Up $3K

[AntonToo]

yes SOLID.

11+ million jobs created since Obama got into office, 15 million over the last 6 years.

Those are solid numbers and your rambling about "hiding" something is completely nonsensical. What is hidden? How?

These are official, objective numbers that your little partisan pea-brain has trouble dealing with in a rational way.

Fine, Anton...explain to me why it is the Obama Administration started using a brand new economic method of measure..."Jobs Created or Saved" after the Obama Stimulus failed to create the "shovel ready" jobs that they promised the American people? Give me a reason for that OTHER than that they were trying desperately to hide how few jobs they'd created after spending close to a trillion dollars in stimulus!

1. that doesn't change the "standard" BLS job growth of you are replying to. Do you accept that job growth was solid under Obama?

2. People that say stupid shit like that are missing even most basic economic understandings (embarrassingly common on the right)

Here it is, pay attention:

There is a big economy and there is a relatively small policy effect. There is simply no way to say if any given policy created or saved a job as it's effects have to isolated from what is going on in the economy on the whole.

Example: Economy goes in recession and is losing 1000 jobs a day, you pass a tax-cut (I know you have a soft spot for this fix-all policy) and lets say it's estimated effect is to add 100 jobs. But it is macro-effect and beyond estimates by the economists there is no way to actually know where any specific dollar went to create a job or to prevent someone from losing one - NOR DOES IT MATTER.

What matters is that tax-cut reduced 1000 job loss to 900 job loss, so it's effect was to save/create 100 jobs.

Small policy effects? You call the ACA a small policy effect? Something that affects 1/6th of the economy? You call the proposed Cap & Trade legislation small policy effect? Something that would have increased the energy costs of every single business across the entire country? Estimating what effect a given policy will have on the economy is what government economists DO! Both the ACA and the proposed Cap & Trade legislation were job killers because they introduced concerns by business that costs would increase in the future.

So please save you pompous attitude that I don't understand basic economics when it's you progressives that don't have a clue about the subject.

Let's make this easy....

How much economics have you actually studied?

Judging from your content, I'm wagering "almost none"...

You don't learn this stuff by Osmosis.....or listening to that douche Stu Varney.

What's sad, Slim is that the two Econ classes I took in college...Macro and Micro...seems to have given me far more knowledge of the subject than most of this board's liberals or our last President! I don't think most of you took ANY business classes at all!

I just spilled my drink laughing at you.

Were those classes like 40 years ago?

 

[Faun]

Do you ever stop lying, ya con tool?

Ever???

Despite your fallacious denial, I've already posted examples of the Bush administration using the term you falsely claim Obama "created" and that Bush never used...

JOHANNS ANNOUNCES INVESTMENT OF $9.2 MILLION IN BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT FUNDS FOR RURAL AMERICA

"I applaud the local community leadership for their efforts to secure these investments, which are needed to create economic opportunities and improve the quality of life available in their community," said Johanns. "These funds are part of the Bush Administration's ongoing efforts to spur economic development in rural areas and will help save or create more than 1,800 jobs."​

_____________________________________​

USDA ANNOUNCES $19.75 MILLION IN RURAL BUSINESS LOANS, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT LOANS AND GRANTS

"These funds will help support local economic development agencies, finance infrastructure improvements, establish low-interest revolving loan funds, and help jurisdictions implement regional business and community development plans," Dorr said. "The funding announced today is expected to save or create more than 2,300 jobs in 20 states."​

_____________________________________​

Transcript of Remarks by Agriculture Secretary Ann M. Veneman regarding National Homeownership Month Kennett Square, PA - June 23, 2004

"Our Rural Development programs also help communities with infrastructure such as electricity, water and telecommunications and with economic development assistance. We have estimated that our rural development programs have saved or created more than 500,000 jobs just since the Bush Administration took office in January of 2001. Recently we have seen more positive numbers showing that the U.S. economy created nearly a quarter of a million jobs last month alone for a total of 1 million jobs created in the last three months and about 1.5 million jobs in the past nine months.​

What's amusing to me, Faun is that you're still even ATTEMPTING to call two isolated uses of the "phrase" jobs created or saved by two members with the Obama Administration abandoning an accepted economic statistic for jobs created, for the meaningless statistic of "jobs created or saved" and repeatedly quoting that number when talking about how many jobs were created by the Obama Stimulus! As if two people using the phrase "save or create" in an earlier is even remotely the same as an Administration purposely misleading the American people with a made up statistic that can't be verified in any way!

Lying con tool... you claimed Obama created the term.

As I just showed, your lies are demonstratable. Obama got the term from the Bush administration.

It outraged you when Bush's administration used the term, right, ya lying con tool?

When those two administrators in the Bush Administration used that term "save or create" to describe how their policies were affecting jobs... they were as full of shit as the Obama Administration was! The difference between the two is that the Bush Administration weren't lying to the American people by going on national TV and claiming over and over again that their stimulus was a success because they'd created or saved millions of jobs when in fact their stimulus had created so few jobs that even the President admitted that the shovel ready jobs they'd promised didn't materialize! The Bush Administration used jobs created as their statistic when reporting on jobs. If they hadn't...they would have been tarred and feathered by the liberal press! Obama used "created or saved" because he knew the main stream media would report what he fed them.

Do you ever stop lying, ya con tool?

Ever???

I just proved you lied when you falsely claimed Obama "created" that term, and all you can do now is defend Bush's administration by saying they weren't lying to the American people? And that they only said that to avoid the "Liberal media?"

How about apologizing to the forum for you lying again?

How about showing an example of George W. Bush ever using the term "created or saved", Faun? I can show you dozens of examples of Barack Obama using that term. The reason I can and you can't...is that Bush didn't attempt to fool the American public with a bullshit made up statistic the same way that Barack Obama and his people did!

I take that as a 'no,' you won't apologize for lying to the forum?

 

[AntonToo]

Created/saved has only one real purpose...to make it impossible to gauge how effective an economic policy IS! You can claim that you've "saved" any number of jobs that you like to make the number of jobs you've "Created/Saved" be whatever number you want it to be and there's absolutely no way to prove your number is total bullshit!

1. lets make something crystal clear - NOTHING OBAMA CAN SAY THAT CAN POSSIBLY PREVENT ANY GAUGING. That's just total nonsense. Anyone inclined so can study the policy's effects...and they did, see CBO estimates.

2.....you sooooo don't understanding anything at all about how macro economic estimates work.


Lets take baby steps with small, easy to understand example:

Suppose you take 1 million dollars out of foreign account and spend it traveling around America.

Now try to answer these questions

How would you go about "gauging how effective this economic policy IS!"?
How would you be able to say if your million dollars SAVED or CREATED any given job?


If you can constructively think about these questions for just a little bit, you surely will see how idiotic your objection to created/saved language. There is NO WAY to track every dollar and to know exactly what happened with them, there is no way to run an objective tally how effective the policy has been perfectly isolated from all the other stuff going on in the economy. That's not because Obama said something, those are the limitations of what we can know. Macroeconomic estimates is really the best we have.

 

[AntonToo]

What's amusing to me, Faun is that you're still even ATTEMPTING to call two isolated uses of the "phrase" jobs created or saved by two members with the Obama Administration abandoning an accepted economic statistic for jobs created, for the meaningless statistic of "jobs created or saved" and repeatedly quoting that number when talking about how many jobs were created by the Obama Stimulus! As if two people using the phrase "save or create" in an earlier is even remotely the same as an Administration purposely misleading the American people with a made up statistic that can't be verified in any way!

Lying con tool... you claimed Obama created the term.

As I just showed, your lies are demonstratable. Obama got the term from the Bush administration.

It outraged you when Bush's administration used the term, right, ya lying con tool?

When those two administrators in the Bush Administration used that term "save or create" to describe how their policies were affecting jobs... they were as full of shit as the Obama Administration was! The difference between the two is that the Bush Administration weren't lying to the American people by going on national TV and claiming over and over again that their stimulus was a success because they'd created or saved millions of jobs when in fact their stimulus had created so few jobs that even the President admitted that the shovel ready jobs they'd promised didn't materialize! The Bush Administration used jobs created as their statistic when reporting on jobs. If they hadn't...they would have been tarred and feathered by the liberal press! Obama used "created or saved" because he knew the main stream media would report what he fed them.

Do you ever stop lying, ya con tool?

Ever???

I just proved you lied when you falsely claimed Obama "created" that term, and all you can do now is defend Bush's administration by saying they weren't lying to the American people? And that they only said that to avoid the "Liberal media?"

How about apologizing to the forum for you lying again?

How about showing an example of George W. Bush ever using the term "created or saved", Faun? I can show you dozens of examples of Barack Obama using that term. The reason I can and you can't...is that Bush didn't attempt to fool the American public with a bullshit made up statistic the same way that Barack Obama and his people did!

I take that as a 'no,' you won't apologize for lying to the forum?

I don't even know why you fellas even bother going down that road. It doesn't matter who invented 1+1=2, it is still TRUE.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Obamacare is still in place. The economy is doing what the GOP said was impossible, i.e., prospering while Obamacare is still in place.

End of story.

 

[Zander]

Yet, despite Obama's "great economic record" the Democrats still lost almost 1000 seats in state legislatures, a dozen Governorships, the House, the Senate, and the White House!

Great job Democrats!! Keep up the "great" work.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Obamacare is still in place. The economy is doing what the GOP said was impossible, i.e., prospering while Obamacare is still in place.

End of story.

No we said the economy would prosper despite all that Obama could do to slow it down..



.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Obamacare is still in place. The economy is doing what the GOP said was impossible, i.e., prospering while Obamacare is still in place.

End of story.

No we said the economy would prosper despite all that Obama could do to slow it down..



.

Got a quote of you saying that?

 

[Oldstyle]

Created/saved has only one real purpose...to make it impossible to gauge how effective an economic policy IS! You can claim that you've "saved" any number of jobs that you like to make the number of jobs you've "Created/Saved" be whatever number you want it to be and there's absolutely no way to prove your number is total bullshit!

1. lets make something crystal clear - NOTHING OBAMA CAN SAY THAT CAN POSSIBLY PREVENT ANY GAUGING. That's just total nonsense. Anyone inclined so can study the policy's effects...and they did, see CBO estimates.

2.....you sooooo don't understanding anything at all about how macro economic estimates work.


Lets take baby steps with small, easy to understand example:

Suppose you take 1 million dollars out of foreign account and spend it traveling around America.

Now try to answer these questions

How would you go about "gauging how effective this economic policy IS!"?
How would you be able to say if your million dollars SAVED or CREATED any given job?


If you can constructively think about these questions for just a little bit, you surely will see how idiotic your objection to created/saved language. There is NO WAY to track every dollar and to know exactly what happened with them, there is no way to run an objective tally how effective the policy has been perfectly isolated from all the other stuff going on in the economy. That's not because Obama said something, those are the limitations of what we can know. Macroeconomic estimates is really the best we have.

Did you seriously question my education and then post THAT? Is English a second language for you? It's obvious you never studied Economics. It's also rather obvious that you struggle to write a coherent sentence in English. So what exactly DID you study in school, Anton?

 

[Oldstyle]

Obamacare is still in place. The economy is doing what the GOP said was impossible, i.e., prospering while Obamacare is still in place.

End of story.

I know eight years of Obama has made anything more than a 2% growth in the economy seem prosperous, Carbineer but to be quite blunt...it really isn't!

 

[Oldstyle]

What's amusing to me, Faun is that you're still even ATTEMPTING to call two isolated uses of the "phrase" jobs created or saved by two members with the Obama Administration abandoning an accepted economic statistic for jobs created, for the meaningless statistic of "jobs created or saved" and repeatedly quoting that number when talking about how many jobs were created by the Obama Stimulus! As if two people using the phrase "save or create" in an earlier is even remotely the same as an Administration purposely misleading the American people with a made up statistic that can't be verified in any way!

Lying con tool... you claimed Obama created the term.

As I just showed, your lies are demonstratable. Obama got the term from the Bush administration.

It outraged you when Bush's administration used the term, right, ya lying con tool?

When those two administrators in the Bush Administration used that term "save or create" to describe how their policies were affecting jobs... they were as full of shit as the Obama Administration was! The difference between the two is that the Bush Administration weren't lying to the American people by going on national TV and claiming over and over again that their stimulus was a success because they'd created or saved millions of jobs when in fact their stimulus had created so few jobs that even the President admitted that the shovel ready jobs they'd promised didn't materialize! The Bush Administration used jobs created as their statistic when reporting on jobs. If they hadn't...they would have been tarred and feathered by the liberal press! Obama used "created or saved" because he knew the main stream media would report what he fed them.

Do you ever stop lying, ya con tool?

Ever???

I just proved you lied when you falsely claimed Obama "created" that term, and all you can do now is defend Bush's administration by saying they weren't lying to the American people? And that they only said that to avoid the "Liberal media?"

How about apologizing to the forum for you lying again?

How about showing an example of George W. Bush ever using the term "created or saved", Faun? I can show you dozens of examples of Barack Obama using that term. The reason I can and you can't...is that Bush didn't attempt to fool the American public with a bullshit made up statistic the same way that Barack Obama and his people did!

I take that as a 'no,' you won't apologize for lying to the forum?

I take that as an admission that you CAN'T find a single example of George W. Bush using the term "Jobs Created or Saved", Faun? Yet you accused him of creating that false economic statistic? According to you HE created it...yet you can't provide a single example of him using the term? I on the other hand can provide dozens of examples of Barack Obama claiming to have Created or Saved jobs! So who's the liar here?

Your whole premise is a lie.

 

[AntonToo]

Created/saved has only one real purpose...to make it impossible to gauge how effective an economic policy IS! You can claim that you've "saved" any number of jobs that you like to make the number of jobs you've "Created/Saved" be whatever number you want it to be and there's absolutely no way to prove your number is total bullshit!

1. lets make something crystal clear - NOTHING OBAMA CAN SAY THAT CAN POSSIBLY PREVENT ANY GAUGING. That's just total nonsense. Anyone inclined so can study the policy's effects...and they did, see CBO estimates.

2.....you sooooo don't understanding anything at all about how macro economic estimates work.


Lets take baby steps with small, easy to understand example:

Suppose you take 1 million dollars out of foreign account and spend it traveling around America.

Now try to answer these questions

How would you go about "gauging how effective this economic policy IS!"?
How would you be able to say if your million dollars SAVED or CREATED any given job?


If you can constructively think about these questions for just a little bit, you surely will see how idiotic your objection to created/saved language. There is NO WAY to track every dollar and to know exactly what happened with them, there is no way to run an objective tally how effective the policy has been perfectly isolated from all the other stuff going on in the economy. That's not because Obama said something, those are the limitations of what we can know. Macroeconomic estimates is really the best we have.

Did you seriously question my education and then post THAT? Is English a second language for you? It's obvious you never studied Economics. It's also rather obvious that you struggle to write a coherent sentence in English. So what exactly DID you study in school, Anton?

LOL that's your response? NOTHING?

What kind of fucking cretin do you have to be to try to maintain that ARRA that pumped 800 billion of liquidity into recessionary economy and DIDN'T save and create jobs?

It's as simple as it gets but you got that politico need for denial of even basic facts.

 

[AntonToo]

Obamacare is still in place. The economy is doing what the GOP said was impossible, i.e., prospering while Obamacare is still in place.

End of story.

No we said the economy would prosper despite all that Obama could do to slow it down..
.

No you didn't. STFU.

When economy is doing bad that's cause of Obama, when economy does good it's in spite of him. When economy will do good under Trump you'll fully credit him and when it's bad under Trump you'll say it's in spite of his good efforts. It's what you thoughtless, spineless politico liars do.

 

[Johann]

Presidents have very little effect on the economy.

In fact, presidents have very little power, period. Most of their power is symbolic and motivational. The real power is in the hands of Congress.

 

[AntonToo]

Presidents have very little effect on the economy.

In fact, presidents have very little power, period. Most of their power is symbolic and motivational. The real power is in the hands of Congress.

So when Trump promised you 20 million jobs and 4% GDP growth he was just full of shit right?

 

[Johann]

Presidents have very little effect on the economy.

In fact, presidents have very little power, period. Most of their power is symbolic and motivational. The real power is in the hands of Congress.

So when Trump promised you 20 million jobs and 4% GDP growth he was just full of shit right?

Yep.

He has very little to no control over it personally.

Just like he promised us a fucking wall.

Well, if you can't get it through congress, it's not going to get built.

Besides, we're already at less than 5% unemployment, which is just about what economists recommend. I think at this point we should be focusing on wages and benefits.

 

[AntonToo]

Presidents have very little effect on the economy.

In fact, presidents have very little power, period. Most of their power is symbolic and motivational. The real power is in the hands of Congress.

So when Trump promised you 20 million jobs and 4% GDP growth he was just full of shit right?

Yep.

He has very little to no control over it personally.

Just like he promised us a fucking wall.

Well, if you can't get it through congress, it's not going to get built.

Besides, we're already at less than 5% unemployment, which is just about what economists recommend. I think at this point we should be focusing on wages and benefits.

Well congratulations, at least unlike other right wingers you have some sense of consistency.

 

[Johann]

Presidents have very little effect on the economy.

In fact, presidents have very little power, period. Most of their power is symbolic and motivational. The real power is in the hands of Congress.

So when Trump promised you 20 million jobs and 4% GDP growth he was just full of shit right?

Yep.

He has very little to no control over it personally.

Just like he promised us a fucking wall.

Well, if you can't get it through congress, it's not going to get built.

Besides, we're already at less than 5% unemployment, which is just about what economists recommend. I think at this point we should be focusing on wages and benefits.

Well congratulations, at least unlike other right wingers you have some sense of consistency.

I've got viewpoints on both sides of the political spectrum. I think for myself and come to my own conclusions.

 

[Faun]

Obamacare is still in place. The economy is doing what the GOP said was impossible, i.e., prospering while Obamacare is still in place.

End of story.

I know eight years of Obama has made anything more than a 2% growth in the economy seem prosperous, Carbineer but to be quite blunt...it really isn't!

Oh, for fuck's sake ...

Real GDP:

Q4-2000: 12,679.3
Q4-2008: 14,577.0 - 15.0% (Bush)
Q4-2016: 16,842.4 - 15.3% (Obama)

https://www.bea.gov/national/xls/gdplev.xls

 

[Wyatt earp]

Obamacare is still in place. The economy is doing what the GOP said was impossible, i.e., prospering while Obamacare is still in place.

End of story.

No we said the economy would prosper despite all that Obama could do to slow it down..
.

No you didn't. STFU.

When economy is doing bad that's cause of Obama, when economy does good it's in spite of him. When economy will do good under Trump you'll fully credit him and when it's bad under Trump you'll say it's in spite of his good efforts. It's what you thoughtless, spineless politico liars do.

Of course we did shit for brains again the economy came back despite Obama...



It could of came back in 2010 if we didn't have Obama care decisions slowing it down.



.