Obamacare Economy: 7 Years, 16 million Jobs Created, Middle Class Incomes Up $3K

[007]

We now have 7 full years of economic data since President Obama signed the Affordable Care Act (ACA or “Obamacare”). So, as Republicans in Washington continue their relentless assault on the ACA, it’s a good time to take stock of how America actually fared in the Obamacare Economy.

Before turning to the facts, a reminder of the narrative that the GOP has been pushing about the ACA for so long:

“It will bankrupt our nation, and it will ruin our economy! … This health care law … is already destroying jobs in our country.” — John Boehner, 2011

“We now know that Obamacare has been one of the single biggest drags on job creation since early 2010.” — Mitch McConnell, 2012

“[T]his is going to blow a hole through the deficit even more than we had already thought.” — Paul Ryan, 2012

“Obamacare is directly responsible for destroying jobs and lowering wages for workers” — Senate Republican Policy Committee, 2014

“It is the biggest job-killer in this country.” — Ted Cruz, 2016

“Obamacare is devastating businesses." — Donald Trump, 2016

“Obamacare … this disastrous policy that's been killing jobs." — Mike Pence, 2016

Let’s tackle these false “job-killing, wage-reducing, deficit-busting” myths one by one:

The Obamacare Economy: 7 Years, 16 Million Jobs Created, Middle-Class Incomes Up $3K

Are you one of those pissed off at Soros for not getting paid?

 

[AntonToo]

We now have 7 full years of economic data since President Obama signed the Affordable Care Act (ACA or “Obamacare”). So, as Republicans in Washington continue their relentless assault on the ACA, it’s a good time to take stock of how America actually fared in the Obamacare Economy.

Before turning to the facts, a reminder of the narrative that the GOP has been pushing about the ACA for so long:

“It will bankrupt our nation, and it will ruin our economy! … This health care law … is already destroying jobs in our country.” — John Boehner, 2011

“We now know that Obamacare has been one of the single biggest drags on job creation since early 2010.” — Mitch McConnell, 2012

“[T]his is going to blow a hole through the deficit even more than we had already thought.” — Paul Ryan, 2012

“Obamacare is directly responsible for destroying jobs and lowering wages for workers” — Senate Republican Policy Committee, 2014

“It is the biggest job-killer in this country.” — Ted Cruz, 2016

“Obamacare is devastating businesses." — Donald Trump, 2016

“Obamacare … this disastrous policy that's been killing jobs." — Mike Pence, 2016

Let’s tackle these false “job-killing, wage-reducing, deficit-busting” myths one by one:

The Obamacare Economy: 7 Years, 16 Million Jobs Created, Middle-Class Incomes Up $3K

The Daily Kos? LOL Sure, Skews...sure...

For fucks sakes those are the numbers and they will be same no matter where you source them from.

Here is the BLS data, so now you can have a nice hot cup of STFU

Bureau of Labor Statistics Data

So quote the Bureau of Labor Statistics, Antonto! I'll have a modicum of respect for your opinions if you're forming them using your brain and an unbiased source! When you come here to spam the board with crap that you pulled out of sites like the Daily Kos I have zero respect for your "opinion" because it isn't YOURS...it's a talking point you've been fed by some liberal propagandist!

I did dummy, just click the link and give me my modicum.

I've come to the conclusion that the majority of "liberals" on this board don't HAVE their own opinions on much of anything! Far too many of you troll sites like The Daily Kos for your daily helping of anti conservative propaganda points. Without those sites most of you couldn't carry on an intelligent dinner conversation on the economy because most of you don't seem to know the first thing about Economics.

It's obvious that the "Obama Economy" wasn't as good for the Middle Class as it was for the wealthy...yet people like yourself want to claim it a rousing success! The fact is...Barack Obama didn't have a coherent strategy to grow the economy since Larry Summers and Christina Romer left nearly seven years ago following the Obama Stimulus's failure to create jobs. .

Wtf are you rambling about? You bitched about the source, I give you THE source, BLS. So now you got nothing to reply with except this lunatic drivel? Pathetic.

Man up and admit that Obama has solid job growth record.

 

[AntonToo]

I did dummy, just click the link and give me my modicum.

I've come to the conclusion that the majority of "liberals" on this board don't HAVE their own opinions on much of anything! Far too many of you troll sites like The Daily Kos for your daily helping of anti conservative propaganda points. Without those sites most of you couldn't carry on an intelligent dinner conversation on the economy because most of you don't seem to know the first thing about Economics.

It's obvious that the "Obama Economy" wasn't as good for the Middle Class as it was for the wealthy...yet people like yourself want to claim it a rousing success! The fact is...Barack Obama didn't have a coherent strategy to grow the economy since Larry Summers and Christina Romer left nearly seven years ago following the Obama Stimulus's failure to create jobs. .

^^^ those who can't refute the data, divert away from it ^^^

Divert away from the data? Would that be like inventing a new economic statistic...Jobs Created or Saved...to hide how few jobs you actually created? Is that the kind of diversion that you're speaking of, Faun?

No, ya lyin' con tool -- I'm talking about....

You have no idea what you are talking about, you are just a far left drone

!

Dumbass, Clinton was the president in year 2000 and Bush was the president in 2007 and 2008, complete with Great Recession, so what the fuck is your graph showing?

 

[Oldstyle]

The Daily Kos? LOL Sure, Skews...sure...

For fucks sakes those are the numbers and they will be same no matter where you source them from.

Here is the BLS data, so now you can have a nice hot cup of STFU

Bureau of Labor Statistics Data

So quote the Bureau of Labor Statistics, Antonto! I'll have a modicum of respect for your opinions if you're forming them using your brain and an unbiased source! When you come here to spam the board with crap that you pulled out of sites like the Daily Kos I have zero respect for your "opinion" because it isn't YOURS...it's a talking point you've been fed by some liberal propagandist!

I did dummy, just click the link and give me my modicum.

I've come to the conclusion that the majority of "liberals" on this board don't HAVE their own opinions on much of anything! Far too many of you troll sites like The Daily Kos for your daily helping of anti conservative propaganda points. Without those sites most of you couldn't carry on an intelligent dinner conversation on the economy because most of you don't seem to know the first thing about Economics.

It's obvious that the "Obama Economy" wasn't as good for the Middle Class as it was for the wealthy...yet people like yourself want to claim it a rousing success! The fact is...Barack Obama didn't have a coherent strategy to grow the economy since Larry Summers and Christina Romer left nearly seven years ago following the Obama Stimulus's failure to create jobs. .

Wtf are you rambling about? You bitched about the source, I give you THE source, BLS. So now you got nothing to reply with except this lunatic drivel? Pathetic.

Man up and admit that Obama has solid job growth record.

Solid? They spent hundreds of billions of dollars in government stimulus and created so few new jobs that they had to hide how bad it was with "Jobs Created or Saved"! That right there tells you EXACTLY what happened and if you weren't such a partisan hack...you'd "man up" and admit that!

 

[Faun]

For fucks sakes those are the numbers and they will be same no matter where you source them from.

Here is the BLS data, so now you can have a nice hot cup of STFU

Bureau of Labor Statistics Data

So quote the Bureau of Labor Statistics, Antonto! I'll have a modicum of respect for your opinions if you're forming them using your brain and an unbiased source! When you come here to spam the board with crap that you pulled out of sites like the Daily Kos I have zero respect for your "opinion" because it isn't YOURS...it's a talking point you've been fed by some liberal propagandist!

I did dummy, just click the link and give me my modicum.

I've come to the conclusion that the majority of "liberals" on this board don't HAVE their own opinions on much of anything! Far too many of you troll sites like The Daily Kos for your daily helping of anti conservative propaganda points. Without those sites most of you couldn't carry on an intelligent dinner conversation on the economy because most of you don't seem to know the first thing about Economics.

It's obvious that the "Obama Economy" wasn't as good for the Middle Class as it was for the wealthy...yet people like yourself want to claim it a rousing success! The fact is...Barack Obama didn't have a coherent strategy to grow the economy since Larry Summers and Christina Romer left nearly seven years ago following the Obama Stimulus's failure to create jobs. .

Wtf are you rambling about? You bitched about the source, I give you THE source, BLS. So now you got nothing to reply with except this lunatic drivel? Pathetic.

Man up and admit that Obama has solid job growth record.

Solid? They spent hundreds of billions of dollars in government stimulus and created so few new jobs that they had to hide how bad it was with "Jobs Created or Saved"! That right there tells you EXACTLY what happened and if you weren't such a partisan hack...you'd "man up" and admit that!

There were about 15 million jobs created during the 6+ years of continuous growth. Leave it to a lying con tool like you to deny that's not solid growth.

Even funnier was watching you project others are partisan.

 

[AntonToo]

For fucks sakes those are the numbers and they will be same no matter where you source them from.

Here is the BLS data, so now you can have a nice hot cup of STFU

Bureau of Labor Statistics Data

So quote the Bureau of Labor Statistics, Antonto! I'll have a modicum of respect for your opinions if you're forming them using your brain and an unbiased source! When you come here to spam the board with crap that you pulled out of sites like the Daily Kos I have zero respect for your "opinion" because it isn't YOURS...it's a talking point you've been fed by some liberal propagandist!

I did dummy, just click the link and give me my modicum.

I've come to the conclusion that the majority of "liberals" on this board don't HAVE their own opinions on much of anything! Far too many of you troll sites like The Daily Kos for your daily helping of anti conservative propaganda points. Without those sites most of you couldn't carry on an intelligent dinner conversation on the economy because most of you don't seem to know the first thing about Economics.

It's obvious that the "Obama Economy" wasn't as good for the Middle Class as it was for the wealthy...yet people like yourself want to claim it a rousing success! The fact is...Barack Obama didn't have a coherent strategy to grow the economy since Larry Summers and Christina Romer left nearly seven years ago following the Obama Stimulus's failure to create jobs. .

Wtf are you rambling about? You bitched about the source, I give you THE source, BLS. So now you got nothing to reply with except this lunatic drivel? Pathetic.

Man up and admit that Obama has solid job growth record.

Solid? They spent hundreds of billions of dollars in government stimulus and created so few new jobs that they had to hide how bad it was with "Jobs Created or Saved"! That right there tells you EXACTLY what happened and if you weren't such a partisan hack...you'd "man up" and admit that!

yes SOLID.

11+ million jobs created since Obama got into office, 15 million over the last 6 years.

Those are solid numbers and your rambling about "hiding" something is completely nonsensical. What is hidden? How?

These are official, objective numbers that your little partisan pea-brain has trouble dealing with in a rational way.

 

[Oldstyle]

So quote the Bureau of Labor Statistics, Antonto! I'll have a modicum of respect for your opinions if you're forming them using your brain and an unbiased source! When you come here to spam the board with crap that you pulled out of sites like the Daily Kos I have zero respect for your "opinion" because it isn't YOURS...it's a talking point you've been fed by some liberal propagandist!

I did dummy, just click the link and give me my modicum.

I've come to the conclusion that the majority of "liberals" on this board don't HAVE their own opinions on much of anything! Far too many of you troll sites like The Daily Kos for your daily helping of anti conservative propaganda points. Without those sites most of you couldn't carry on an intelligent dinner conversation on the economy because most of you don't seem to know the first thing about Economics.

It's obvious that the "Obama Economy" wasn't as good for the Middle Class as it was for the wealthy...yet people like yourself want to claim it a rousing success! The fact is...Barack Obama didn't have a coherent strategy to grow the economy since Larry Summers and Christina Romer left nearly seven years ago following the Obama Stimulus's failure to create jobs. .

Wtf are you rambling about? You bitched about the source, I give you THE source, BLS. So now you got nothing to reply with except this lunatic drivel? Pathetic.

Man up and admit that Obama has solid job growth record.

Solid? They spent hundreds of billions of dollars in government stimulus and created so few new jobs that they had to hide how bad it was with "Jobs Created or Saved"! That right there tells you EXACTLY what happened and if you weren't such a partisan hack...you'd "man up" and admit that!

yes SOLID.

11+ million jobs created since Obama got into office, 15 million over the last 6 years.

Those are solid numbers and your rambling about "hiding" something is completely nonsensical. What is hidden? How?

These are official, objective numbers that your little partisan pea-brain has trouble dealing with in a rational way.

Fine, Anton...explain to me why it is the Obama Administration started using a brand new economic method of measure..."Jobs Created or Saved" after the Obama Stimulus failed to create the "shovel ready" jobs that they promised the American people? Give me a reason for that OTHER than that they were trying desperately to hide how few jobs they'd created after spending close to a trillion dollars in stimulus!

 

[Wyatt earp]

So quote the Bureau of Labor Statistics, Antonto! I'll have a modicum of respect for your opinions if you're forming them using your brain and an unbiased source! When you come here to spam the board with crap that you pulled out of sites like the Daily Kos I have zero respect for your "opinion" because it isn't YOURS...it's a talking point you've been fed by some liberal propagandist!

I did dummy, just click the link and give me my modicum.

I've come to the conclusion that the majority of "liberals" on this board don't HAVE their own opinions on much of anything! Far too many of you troll sites like The Daily Kos for your daily helping of anti conservative propaganda points. Without those sites most of you couldn't carry on an intelligent dinner conversation on the economy because most of you don't seem to know the first thing about Economics.

It's obvious that the "Obama Economy" wasn't as good for the Middle Class as it was for the wealthy...yet people like yourself want to claim it a rousing success! The fact is...Barack Obama didn't have a coherent strategy to grow the economy since Larry Summers and Christina Romer left nearly seven years ago following the Obama Stimulus's failure to create jobs. .

Wtf are you rambling about? You bitched about the source, I give you THE source, BLS. So now you got nothing to reply with except this lunatic drivel? Pathetic.

Man up and admit that Obama has solid job growth record.

Solid? They spent hundreds of billions of dollars in government stimulus and created so few new jobs that they had to hide how bad it was with "Jobs Created or Saved"! That right there tells you EXACTLY what happened and if you weren't such a partisan hack...you'd "man up" and admit that!

yes SOLID.

11+ million jobs created since Obama got into office, 15 million over the last 6 years.

Those are solid numbers and your rambling about "hiding" something is completely nonsensical. What is hidden? How?

These are official, objective numbers that your little partisan pea-brain has trouble dealing with in a rational way.

How did the Messiah do it be specific


Please

 

[Oldstyle]

What's amusing about your claim that Obama somehow was responsible for job creation is that the thing that drove an economic resurgence in the middle of Barry's Presidency was in the energy sector with fracking technology creating massive amounts of both oil and natural gas as well as jobs. Obama didn't WANT fracking and worked against it! For you liberals to then turn around and claim that the jobs created by big oil using technologies that you actively tried to stop is laughable! Yet whenever Barry needed something to puff up his resume he was always quick to point out how much gas and oil was being produced under his Presidency!

 

[Oldstyle]

If it was up to you on the far left not only would we not have gotten the jobs created by fracking...we would have been saddled with Cap & Trade legislation to drive energy costs for American businesses through the roof. Barry was saved from REALLY fubarring the economy by the 2010 midterms!

 

[bripat9643]

The chart goes to 2015, moron.

No it doesn't moron

here is one that does:

So the net was negative for his administration - and still considerably below the value in 2000

Median income: The jump in median income was one of the largest annual increases Census has recorded. The growth was also widespread, with geographic regions and races (except for Asians) seeing increases.

Behind the pay hike is the big increase in employment, Census officials said. Some 3.3 million more Americans were working full-time, year-round, pushing up median income. Some 1.4 million more men and 1 million more women had jobs last year.


"Strong labor markets make a big difference in helping to connect low- and middle-income working families to the broader economy," said Jared Bernstein, senior fellow at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities.

Median income jumps 5.2% in 2015


Note the underlined....what do you figger will happen to real median household income consequent to a Lost Decade where private sector payrolls SHRANK over the course of 8 years?

Of course, it still didn't make up for the decline that occurred during his administration. The net result is that average income declined under Obama, It sill hasn't risen above the level we enjoyed in 2000. That's a record no sane person would crow about.

Bri,

Why are you still here? Have you no shame?

The "decline" occurred because a guy for whom you cast 2 enthusiastic votes left the US (and world) economy a smoking crater. This was, by far, the worst economic disaster to befall the nation since The Great Depression. That labor markets have recovered to their present state is a miracle. The ONLY way income were going to rise was if the economy could generate enough jobs to make up for the slack of the previous 8 years......that "slack" represented about 8 million private sector jobs....

And unlike every other post WW2 recovery, this one - in the wake of the WORST recession during that time - had to proceed without the benefit of discretionary fiscal lift.

In fact, the recovery in labor markets was strong enough to grow real median household income at the highest annual rate recorded, in 2014.

That doesn't jive with the known facts. Obama and the Dims implemented a "fiscal lift" called the "stimulus." All that did is funnel a lot of money to government employees.

The fact is that the recovery during the Obama administration is the slowest on record since the Great Depression. The reasons are the same: some douche bag sitting in the Oval Office decided the government needed to get involved. The recession was the worst because of the legislation Obama and the Dims passed. Dims like to pretend that what happened over the course of the Obama administration was Bush's fault. You're just admitting that Obama's policies were ineffective, at best. In fact, they were counter productive. They took an typical recession caused by the government and turned it into a depression.

 

[Faun]

I did dummy, just click the link and give me my modicum.

I've come to the conclusion that the majority of "liberals" on this board don't HAVE their own opinions on much of anything! Far too many of you troll sites like The Daily Kos for your daily helping of anti conservative propaganda points. Without those sites most of you couldn't carry on an intelligent dinner conversation on the economy because most of you don't seem to know the first thing about Economics.

It's obvious that the "Obama Economy" wasn't as good for the Middle Class as it was for the wealthy...yet people like yourself want to claim it a rousing success! The fact is...Barack Obama didn't have a coherent strategy to grow the economy since Larry Summers and Christina Romer left nearly seven years ago following the Obama Stimulus's failure to create jobs. .

Wtf are you rambling about? You bitched about the source, I give you THE source, BLS. So now you got nothing to reply with except this lunatic drivel? Pathetic.

Man up and admit that Obama has solid job growth record.

Solid? They spent hundreds of billions of dollars in government stimulus and created so few new jobs that they had to hide how bad it was with "Jobs Created or Saved"! That right there tells you EXACTLY what happened and if you weren't such a partisan hack...you'd "man up" and admit that!

yes SOLID.

11+ million jobs created since Obama got into office, 15 million over the last 6 years.

Those are solid numbers and your rambling about "hiding" something is completely nonsensical. What is hidden? How?

These are official, objective numbers that your little partisan pea-brain has trouble dealing with in a rational way.

Fine, Anton...explain to me why it is the Obama Administration started using a brand new economic method of measure..."Jobs Created or Saved" after the Obama Stimulus failed to create the "shovel ready" jobs that they promised the American people? Give me a reason for that OTHER than that they were trying desperately to hide how few jobs they'd created after spending close to a trillion dollars in stimulus!

Do you ever stop lying, ya con tool?

Ever???

You've been shown repeatedly that Obama did not create the measure, "jobs created or saved," that Bush used it as well.

 

[Markle]

Jobs added since petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama seems to be far fewer than 16.2 million. More like TEN MILLION OVER EIGHT YEARS.

 

[bjoh249]

We now have 7 full years of economic data since President Obama signed the Affordable Care Act (ACA or “Obamacare”). So, as Republicans in Washington continue their relentless assault on the ACA, it’s a good time to take stock of how America actually fared in the Obamacare Economy.

Before turning to the facts, a reminder of the narrative that the GOP has been pushing about the ACA for so long:

“It will bankrupt our nation, and it will ruin our economy! … This health care law … is already destroying jobs in our country.” — John Boehner, 2011

“We now know that Obamacare has been one of the single biggest drags on job creation since early 2010.” — Mitch McConnell, 2012

“[T]his is going to blow a hole through the deficit even more than we had already thought.” — Paul Ryan, 2012

“Obamacare is directly responsible for destroying jobs and lowering wages for workers” — Senate Republican Policy Committee, 2014

“It is the biggest job-killer in this country.” — Ted Cruz, 2016

“Obamacare is devastating businesses." — Donald Trump, 2016

“Obamacare … this disastrous policy that's been killing jobs." — Mike Pence, 2016

Let’s tackle these false “job-killing, wage-reducing, deficit-busting” myths one by one:

The Obamacare Economy: 7 Years, 16 Million Jobs Created, Middle-Class Incomes Up $3K

The jobs report last month was actually quite crappy and you leftists touted that. So did the great Obama economy skip a month or something? Remember, you said this has been going on for 7 years.

 

[Markle]

I bet you don't have the slightest idea how the data is collected and aggregated.

Repetitive and unnecessary. A childish use of a word in a faux attempt to appear intelligent. Not at all like saying the grass is green and green.

 

[Markle]

The jobs report last month was actually quite crappy. So did the Obama economy skip a month or something?

And the jobs report this month is quite sporty, as is the stock market.

 

[Markle]

There are fewer than half a million people who are not in the labor force because they "gave up." And that's not necessarily due to being unemployed for a long time....Some who lost his job, looked once for work and then gave up would be not in the labor force for discouraged reasons 4 weeks later.

Half a million? You are far more than a few fries short of a Happy Meal!

Sure does reflect a number far, far higher than half a million!

 

[AntonToo]

I did dummy, just click the link and give me my modicum.

I've come to the conclusion that the majority of "liberals" on this board don't HAVE their own opinions on much of anything! Far too many of you troll sites like The Daily Kos for your daily helping of anti conservative propaganda points. Without those sites most of you couldn't carry on an intelligent dinner conversation on the economy because most of you don't seem to know the first thing about Economics.

It's obvious that the "Obama Economy" wasn't as good for the Middle Class as it was for the wealthy...yet people like yourself want to claim it a rousing success! The fact is...Barack Obama didn't have a coherent strategy to grow the economy since Larry Summers and Christina Romer left nearly seven years ago following the Obama Stimulus's failure to create jobs. .

Wtf are you rambling about? You bitched about the source, I give you THE source, BLS. So now you got nothing to reply with except this lunatic drivel? Pathetic.

Man up and admit that Obama has solid job growth record.

Solid? They spent hundreds of billions of dollars in government stimulus and created so few new jobs that they had to hide how bad it was with "Jobs Created or Saved"! That right there tells you EXACTLY what happened and if you weren't such a partisan hack...you'd "man up" and admit that!

yes SOLID.

11+ million jobs created since Obama got into office, 15 million over the last 6 years.

Those are solid numbers and your rambling about "hiding" something is completely nonsensical. What is hidden? How?

These are official, objective numbers that your little partisan pea-brain has trouble dealing with in a rational way.

Fine, Anton...explain to me why it is the Obama Administration started using a brand new economic method of measure..."Jobs Created or Saved" after the Obama Stimulus failed to create the "shovel ready" jobs that they promised the American people? Give me a reason for that OTHER than that they were trying desperately to hide how few jobs they'd created after spending close to a trillion dollars in stimulus!

1. that doesn't change the "standard" BLS job growth of you are replying to. Do you accept that job growth was solid under Obama?

2. People that say stupid shit like that are missing even most basic economic understandings (embarrassingly common on the right)

Here it is, pay attention:

There is a big economy and there is a relatively small policy effect. There is simply no way to say if any given policy created or saved a job as it's effects have to isolated from what is going on in the economy on the whole.

Example: Economy goes in recession and is losing 1000 jobs a day, you pass a tax-cut (I know you have a soft spot for this fix-all policy) and lets say it's estimated effect is to add 100 jobs. But it is macro-effect and beyond estimates by the economists there is no way to actually know where any specific dollar went to create a job or to prevent someone from losing one - NOR DOES IT MATTER.

What matters is that tax-cut reduced 1000 job loss to 900 job loss, so it's effect was to save/create 100 jobs.

 

[AntonToo]

There are fewer than half a million people who are not in the labor force because they "gave up." And that's not necessarily due to being unemployed for a long time....Some who lost his job, looked once for work and then gave up would be not in the labor force for discouraged reasons 4 weeks later.

Half a million? You are far more than a few fries short of a Happy Meal!

Sure does reflect a number far, far higher than half a million!

Dumbass why are you conflating people that retired due to age with people who gave up looking for work due to economic conditions?

Because politically convenient. LFPR will continue its decline through 2030s as it was well predicted decades ago. Not predicted by some magic crystal ball, but by analysis of the population demographics.

Our population is getting older and Baby boomers are retiring, while female LFPR growth topped out and young people spend more and more time in school.

 

[AntonToo]

Jobs added since petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama seems to be far fewer than 16.2 million. More like TEN MILLION OVER EIGHT YEARS.

Dumbass, Labor Force is not jobs,

Labor Force = employed + unemployed (among 16+ adult population not institutionalized)

There were many people out of job and looking for one in 2009, LF numbers included them and you are claiming that those were jobs.

Why are rightwingers putting up one nonsense after another with utmost confidence while being so consistently ignorant of economic basics?