ObamaCare- Mandate is Constitutional as a Tax, etc.

[JakeStarkey]

We could if we went back to paying for our routine office visits, routine prescriptions, and innoculations, etc. out of pocket, paid off the emergency room bill, took on a substantial but manageable deductible on our hospitalization insurance, and bought into a pool for catastrophic medical insurance that would work very much like earthquake insurance or flood insurance. That would make medical insurance much more affordable for many millions more Americans. Just as most of us don't need disability insurance, it is very inexpensive insurance to buy, so would few of us ever use catastrophic medical insurance so spreading the risk would make it very affordable for us all to buy.

There are so many ways to address the problem without government furnished healthcare.

Great, but what is the plan to get us to that point? I certainly haven't heard of any such plan.

We have to get rid of the dictators we currently have in Congress and the White House and install freedom loving patriots in their stead. Such a plan or something better will quickly be forthcoming.

Now you are speaking loony, and ignoring my correctly directed comments to you above does not relieve your nonsense. There are no dictators in Congress. We the People elected Congress and the President. They are as freedom loving as you on the far right or in the libertarian stream.

Electing folks you want won't be helped by waka waka language.

 

[Wiseacre]

Great, but what is the plan to get us to that point? I certainly haven't heard of any such plan.

We have to get rid of the dictators we currently have in Congress and the White House and install freedom loving patriots in their stead. Such a plan or something better will quickly be forthcoming.

So there is no plan.

Certainly not from the democrats, they don't have the balls to put out a comprehensive plan like Ryan did. Whatever you think of it, at least he had to courage to do it, which is more than I can say for the dems.

 

[koshergrl]

It's funny watching the most limp minded loons pretend that one of the most concise and educated posters on the board can't keep up..with THEM.

LOLOLOL!

 

[Foxfyre]

We have to get rid of the dictators we currently have in Congress and the White House and install freedom loving patriots in their stead. Such a plan or something better will quickly be forthcoming.

So there is no plan.

Certainly not from the democrats, they don't have the balls to put out a comprehensive plan like Ryan did. Whatever you think of it, at least he had to courage to do it, which is more than I can say for the dems.

The only plan I want to see from the Federal government anyway is those few things appropriate for the Federal government to do such as application of anti trust and RICO laws to break up the monopolies and perhaps set up a catastophic insurance pool to spread that risk and make it affordable for everybody similar to earthquake and flood insurance. Then I want the federal government to slowly and carefully and thoughtfully get out of the healthcare business entirely.

Meanwhile I want the rest of us to keep this alive. The Democrats will do everything in their power to downplay and divert the real issue here. They'll dredge up or manufacture all manner of scandals or bomb something or do anything to to refocus our attention in the next four months leading up to the election.

Our job is to keep our eye on the ball and make them defend the largest new tax ever imposed on any people in the history of the world and remind everybody that SCOTUS defined it as exactly that.

 

[RDD_1210]

We have to get rid of the dictators we currently have in Congress and the White House and install freedom loving patriots in their stead. Such a plan or something better will quickly be forthcoming.

So there is no plan.

Certainly not from the democrats, they don't have the balls to put out a comprehensive plan like Ryan did. Whatever you think of it, at least he had to courage to do it, which is more than I can say for the dems.

Umm, pretty sure the democrat plan was the one just validated by the supreme court today. Solid talking point for you though....really.

 

[RDD_1210]

It's funny watching the most limp minded loons pretend that one of the most concise and educated posters on the board can't keep up..with THEM.

LOLOLOL!

Who would that be?

 

[Foxfyre]

So there is no plan.

Certainly not from the democrats, they don't have the balls to put out a comprehensive plan like Ryan did. Whatever you think of it, at least he had to courage to do it, which is more than I can say for the dems.

Umm, pretty sure the democrat plan was the one just validated by the supreme court today. Solid talking point for you though....really.

Yup. It was validated on the strength of it being a tax and Congress having unlimited power to tax and spend. So it will be fun watching the Democrats try to defend it on that basis, and on the fact that it is the largest new tax ever imposed on any people in the history of the world.

Are you really excited about being validated in that?

 

[RDD_1210]

Certainly not from the democrats, they don't have the balls to put out a comprehensive plan like Ryan did. Whatever you think of it, at least he had to courage to do it, which is more than I can say for the dems.

Umm, pretty sure the democrat plan was the one just validated by the supreme court today. Solid talking point for you though....really.

Yup. It was validated on the strength of it being a tax and Congress having unlimited power to tax and spend. So it will be fun watching the Democrats try to defend it on that basis, and on the fact that it is the largest new tax ever imposed on any people in the history of the world.

Are you really excited about being validated in that?

Yup. Thrilled.

 

[Wiseacre]

So there is no plan.

Certainly not from the democrats, they don't have the balls to put out a comprehensive plan like Ryan did. Whatever you think of it, at least he had to courage to do it, which is more than I can say for the dems.

Umm, pretty sure the democrat plan was the one just validated by the supreme court today. Solid talking point for you though....really.

You call that piece of shit a plan? BTW, they threw out the Medicaid part, so your "plan" kinda has a big hole in it. I am truly amazed that anyone could possibly think they could add 16 million new people into the HC system without seeing a proportional rise in cost, over and above the normal cost increases which are already out of control. And which ACA does nothing about.

 

[RDD_1210]

Certainly not from the democrats, they don't have the balls to put out a comprehensive plan like Ryan did. Whatever you think of it, at least he had to courage to do it, which is more than I can say for the dems.

Umm, pretty sure the democrat plan was the one just validated by the supreme court today. Solid talking point for you though....really.

You call that piece of shit a plan? BTW, they threw out the Medicaid part, so your "plan" kinda has a big hole in it. I am truly amazed that anyone could possibly think they could add 16 million new people into the HC system without seeing a proportional rise in cost, over and above the normal cost increases which are already out of control. And which ACA does nothing about.

Sorry you don't like it. Still is a tangible plan though. Better than what we had before which isn't saying much.

 

[Foxfyre]

Umm, pretty sure the democrat plan was the one just validated by the supreme court today. Solid talking point for you though....really.

You call that piece of shit a plan? BTW, they threw out the Medicaid part, so your "plan" kinda has a big hole in it. I am truly amazed that anyone could possibly think they could add 16 million new people into the HC system without seeing a proportional rise in cost, over and above the normal cost increases which are already out of control. And which ACA does nothing about.

Sorry you don't like it. Still is a tangible plan though. Better than what we had before which isn't saying much.

No, not better than what we had before and, if not stopped, will destroy the best of what we had before while retaining all the worst. And adding a burden to the American economy from which it might never recover and another unsustainable entitlement that will ensure trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see.

What some of you folks think is wonderful is absolutely mind boggling sometimes.

The fact is the system is on fire. When you put out a fire, what do you replace it with? Do you come up with the blueprints for rebuilding before you put it out? The most important thing is to put out the fire. Then we can decide how to rebuild.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So there is no plan.

Certainly not from the democrats, they don't have the balls to put out a comprehensive plan like Ryan did. Whatever you think of it, at least he had to courage to do it, which is more than I can say for the dems.

Umm, pretty sure the democrat plan was the one just validated by the supreme court today. Solid talking point for you though....really.

i am pretty sure you are wrong.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/231476-progressive-whining-about-obamacare-victory.html

 

[Wiseacre]

Umm, pretty sure the democrat plan was the one just validated by the supreme court today. Solid talking point for you though....really.

You call that piece of shit a plan? BTW, they threw out the Medicaid part, so your "plan" kinda has a big hole in it. I am truly amazed that anyone could possibly think they could add 16 million new people into the HC system without seeing a proportional rise in cost, over and above the normal cost increases which are already out of control. And which ACA does nothing about.

Sorry you don't like it. Still is a tangible plan though. Better than what we had before which isn't saying much.

Not much better, if at all, and it depends on your definition of 'tangible'. HC was and is a big problem in this country, and it is to both parties' shame that they didn't come up with a better plan a long time ago. We can point fingers back and forth and get nowhere, but the bottom line is that the ACA is not a good deal. We've gotta do better.

 

[RDD_1210]

You call that piece of shit a plan? BTW, they threw out the Medicaid part, so your "plan" kinda has a big hole in it. I am truly amazed that anyone could possibly think they could add 16 million new people into the HC system without seeing a proportional rise in cost, over and above the normal cost increases which are already out of control. And which ACA does nothing about.

Sorry you don't like it. Still is a tangible plan though. Better than what we had before which isn't saying much.

No, not better than what we had before and, if not stopped, will destroy the best of what we had before while retaining all the worst. And adding a burden to the American economy from which it might never recover and another unsustainable entitlement that will ensure trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see.

What some of you folks think is wonderful is absolutely mind boggling sometimes.

The fact is the system is on fire. When you put out a fire, what do you replace it with? Do you come up with the blueprints for rebuilding before you put it out? The most important thing is to put out the fire. Then we can decide how to rebuild.

So I take it you supported a shift towards Universal healthcare or even a public option at the very least?

 

[RDD_1210]

Certainly not from the democrats, they don't have the balls to put out a comprehensive plan like Ryan did. Whatever you think of it, at least he had to courage to do it, which is more than I can say for the dems.

Umm, pretty sure the democrat plan was the one just validated by the supreme court today. Solid talking point for you though....really.

i am pretty sure you are wrong.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/231476-progressive-whining-about-obamacare-victory.html

So the ACA wasn't a plan proposed and implemented by the democrats? Learn something new every day.

 

[RDD_1210]

You call that piece of shit a plan? BTW, they threw out the Medicaid part, so your "plan" kinda has a big hole in it. I am truly amazed that anyone could possibly think they could add 16 million new people into the HC system without seeing a proportional rise in cost, over and above the normal cost increases which are already out of control. And which ACA does nothing about.

Sorry you don't like it. Still is a tangible plan though. Better than what we had before which isn't saying much.

Not much better, if at all, and it depends on your definition of 'tangible'. HC was and is a big problem in this country, and it is to both parties' shame that they didn't come up with a better plan a long time ago. We can point fingers back and forth and get nowhere, but the bottom line is that the ACA is not a good deal. We've gotta do better.

I agree, we do need to do better. But at least now people can get insurance even if it is from private companies who will continue to escalate costs. It's better than not being able to get insurance at all. We should all be able to enjoy the shitty system we gave ourselves.

 

[Foxfyre]

Umm, pretty sure the democrat plan was the one just validated by the supreme court today. Solid talking point for you though....really.

i am pretty sure you are wrong.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/231476-progressive-whining-about-obamacare-victory.html

So the ACA wasn't a plan proposed and implemented by the democrats? Learn something new every day.

You didn't follow the link did you. You draw a lot less uninformed conclusions if you actually know what you're talking about. QW found the twist on this that many of us hadn't really seen before or at least hasn't been well articulated. And it's looking better and better for those who will continue to oppose Obama on this.

 

[tererun]

I am not thrilled by the mandated 1 percent tax if you do not have health care, but with all the strutting, clucking, bragging, and all sorts of stupid the right has been doing over this law and their determination it would be shot down, I feel really good about the decision that blasted every one of them.

Today Rush is going to probably blow his top. Bill O is going to be angry. All of fox news is going to be outraged. Thei viewers are going to feel betrayed and hateful. It is like the supreme court reached into the cold black hearts of all republicans and pulled out the vile twisted thing they called a heart, tossed it on the floor, and danced a fucking jig on it before dousing it with gasoline, lighting it on fire, and then putting it back into the chest of the republican it belonged to. It just fills my heart with joy.

Anyone else giggling with glee?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Umm, pretty sure the democrat plan was the one just validated by the supreme court today. Solid talking point for you though....really.

i am pretty sure you are wrong.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/231476-progressive-whining-about-obamacare-victory.html

So the ACA wasn't a plan proposed and implemented by the democrats? Learn something new every day.

I didn't say that, did I? I said there plan was not validated.

 

[Flopper]

The mandate under the Commerce Clause is unconstitutional. The mandate as a tax is okay. l]

Congress: ‘It’s Not a Tax.’ SCOTUS: ‘Yes It Is.’

Posted by Michael F. Cannon

The Supreme Court ruled that ObamaCare’s individual mandate is not constitutional under the Commerce Power, which was how Congress framed the mandate to avoid a political backlash from calling it a tax. Congress and the president swore up and down that the mandate was not a tax. Yet the Court upheld the mandate as a valid use of that disavowed taxing power. What Congress said the individual mandate is, the Court said is not constitutional. What Congress said the mandate is not, the Court ruled is constitutional. Everybody got that?

Where does that leave us?

The Supreme Court just enacted a law that Congress never would have passed.
The Court just told Congress it is okay to lie to the people to avoid political accountability.

Michael F. Cannon • June 28, 2012 @ 11:58 am

.

Call it a financial penalty for not carrying insurance or call it a tax. It's really just semantics.