ObamaCare- Mandate is Constitutional as a Tax, etc.

[Barb]

Could that be the reason that France now boasts one of the strongest economies in the EU? Why it recovered from the recession far more quickly than most of the others. Why it now is within 1% of where it was before the big crash?

France's Health Care Crisis - Billions in the red

.

Tel Trajan, he's the one wants to go there in response to all this.

WHO owns WSJ again?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Maybe he can fly on California Girl's private jet.

 

[Barb]

Maybe he can fly on California Girl's private jet.

DayUM. it's right there, you know, and I couldn't say it about Cali. Poli...

 

[Trajan]

and there it is.


early notes say the Mandate is Constitutional as a Tax........ if I recall Obama said it wasn't a tax......

well, its all over but the crying.

The system is the system, life goes on.

Reminder to self, pick up the Rosetta Stone module for French

yeah, cause the French don't have universal health care, free college...

"Free"... yea ok then...


ok so, to cases: its a tax.

right?

the mandate is a tax, can you please repeat that back to me so I know you get that part...seriously....

now... think on it for a while....

 

[RDD_1210]

The difference is, your wife would have gotten no care at all. She would be told to take a pill instead of treatment. Just like obama told the woman whose mother needed a pacemaker. Instead of a pacemaker, just take a pill until she died.

What the hell are you blabbing about? I honestly don't follow. What pill?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-dQfb8WQvo]Obama to Jane Sturm: Hey, take a pill - YouTube[/ame]

obama's answer was your mother should die.

Once again, what does any of this have to do with my wife who was 27 and died from Leukemia?

 

[Trajan]

Could that be the reason that France now boasts one of the strongest economies in the EU? Why it recovered from the recession far more quickly than most of the others. Why it now is within 1% of where it was before the big crash?

France's Health Care Crisis - Billions in the red

.

Tel Trajan, he's the one wants to go there in response to all this.

WHO owns WSJ again?

wow, did my post go over your head or what?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

all taxes are not equal.

thank you President Obama and thank you Chief Justice Roberts

 

[RDD_1210]

TAx increase for all except the leeches. Yay team.

Yes.
Essentially that is what will happen.
At the same time there will be two very different healthcare systems in America - the "regular people" will have government healthcare. Which will be crappy, rationed, six miles of red tape and your treatment will be delayed often and for long period of times. You know...like Medi-care.
Then there will be "private care". Individuals lucky enough to have a high level job where benefits still include healthcare. Their healthcare will be what 90% of us have right now...but won't any more.

It's almost as if you have no clue what so ever.

Actually, it's exactly like that.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Frank is melting!

but, but, but, Romney will repeal the ACA/Obamacare

 

[JakeStarkey]

and there it is. early notes say the Mandate is Constitutional as a Tax........ if I recall Obama said it wasn't a tax...... well, its all over but the crying. The system is the system, life goes on. Reminder to self, pick up the Rosetta Stone module for French

yeah, cause the French don't have universal health care, free college...

"Free"... yea ok then... ok so, to cases: its a tax. right? the mandate is a tax, can you please repeat that back to me so I know you get that part...seriously.... now... think on it for a while....

Don't worry, Trajan, I whistled for California Girl to get you her private jet to France.

Bon voyage.

 

[Contumacious]

Could that be the reason that France now boasts one of the strongest economies in the EU? Why it recovered from the recession far more quickly than most of the others. Why it now is within 1% of where it was before the big crash?

France's Health Care Crisis - Billions in the red

.

Tel Trajan, he's the one wants to go there in response to all this.

WHO owns WSJ again?

Why?

What are the socialist publications saying?

.

 

[Foxfyre]

What the hell are you blabbing about? I honestly don't follow. What pill?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-dQfb8WQvo]Obama to Jane Sturm: Hey, take a pill - YouTube[/ame]

obama's answer was your mother should die.

Once again, what does any of this have to do with my wife who was 27 and died from Leukemia?

While I'm sure all of us have great sympathy to you in your tragic loss, it does not change the fact that rationing healthcare is not the answer to your problem or that universal healthcare would have produced a different outcome. A program providing a pool for catastrophic insurance while shifting the costs of routine medical care to the individual could have addressed your heavy medical expenses without creating another entitlement that cannot be sustained without serious negative consequence.

The fact that the President made it quite clear that in some cases, the government will choose to make you comfortable and let you die regardless of how much you wished to fight is the most serious conseequence of this whole thing. Most especially when all private insurance/healthcare has been dissolved leaving the government option the only option.

Which some of us would translate to not being any different than rationing healthcare, something else the President promised would not happen even as he contradicted himself.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Foxfyre, we ration health care today based on affordability. There has to be a better way than what we are doing today. Bend your mind to that fact, please.

The only death panels in today's care or in government care are the insurance company death panels today.

Let's stay on topic.

 

[Foxfyre]

Could that be the reason that France now boasts one of the strongest economies in the EU? Why it recovered from the recession far more quickly than most of the others. Why it now is within 1% of where it was before the big crash?

France's Health Care Crisis - Billions in the red

.

A different perspective in 2012:

There’s something that I haven’t seen discussed and yet seems striking to me: how similar the French and U.S. healthcare systems are. On its face, this seems like a preposterous notion: whenever the two are mentioned together, it’s to say that they’re polar opposites. France has been called the best healthcare system in the world by the World Health Organization. And if there’s something everyone in the U.S. seems to agree on, it’s that U.S. healthcare, well, horribly sucks, although they strongly disagree about why and what to do about it. And yet, to me, the similarities are glaring.
Read (much) more here:
Is Health Care in America As Market-Oriented As in France? - Forbes

 

[RDD_1210]

Exactly! My wife died at 27 from leukemia. We had excellent coverage and STILL had bills totaling close to $700,000 that WEREN'T covered by insurance. It's amazing how short sighted people can be.

I'm sorry about your wife. But who's the short sighted one, here? You saw some insurance, thought "Hey, this will pay for my health and stuff." Yet you didn't realize that even after paying all that money for it, you still couldn't afford your medical bills.

What's the point of insurance if even after having a top tier plan you will still be bankrupt and in debt for life?

The point is NO one can afford to pay for a major illness. Not even those who were insured.

 

[Foxfyre]

Exactly! My wife died at 27 from leukemia. We had excellent coverage and STILL had bills totaling close to $700,000 that WEREN'T covered by insurance. It's amazing how short sighted people can be.

I'm sorry about your wife. But who's the short sighted one, here? You saw some insurance, thought "Hey, this will pay for my health and stuff." Yet you didn't realize that even after paying all that money for it, you still couldn't afford your medical bills.

What's the point of insurance if even after having a top tier plan you will still be bankrupt and in debt for life?

The point is NO one can afford to pay for a major illness. Not even those who were insured.

We could if we went back to paying for our routine office visits, routine prescriptions, and innoculations, etc. out of pocket, paid off the emergency room bill, took on a substantial but manageable deductible on our hospitalization insurance, and bought into a pool for catastrophic medical insurance that would work very much like earthquake insurance or flood insurance. That would make medical insurance much more affordable for many millions more Americans. Just as most of us don't need disability insurance, it is very inexpensive insurance to buy, so would few of us ever use catastrophic medical insurance so spreading the risk would make it very affordable for us all to buy.

There are so many ways to address the problem without government furnished healthcare.

Congress should repeal Obamacare in its entirety, come up with reforms appropriate for the federal government to initiate and pass those, and then carefully so as not to cause unintended harm turn it all back over to the states and free markets to manage. We now know the problem never was ACA/Obamacare. The problem is giving Congress an unlimited power to tax and spend and electing those who will that power to the maximum they think they can possibly get away with.

It is up to us to not let them get away with it any longer.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Foxfyre, we ration health care today based on affordability. There has to be a better way than what we are doing today. Bend your mind to that fact, please.

The only death panels in today's care or in government care are the insurance company death panels today.

Let's stay on topic.

 

[RDD_1210]

I'm sorry about your wife. But who's the short sighted one, here? You saw some insurance, thought "Hey, this will pay for my health and stuff." Yet you didn't realize that even after paying all that money for it, you still couldn't afford your medical bills.

What's the point of insurance if even after having a top tier plan you will still be bankrupt and in debt for life?

The point is NO one can afford to pay for a major illness. Not even those who were insured.

We could if we went back to paying for our routine office visits, routine prescriptions, and innoculations, etc. out of pocket, paid off the emergency room bill, took on a substantial but manageable deductible on our hospitalization insurance, and bought into a pool for catastrophic medical insurance that would work very much like earthquake insurance or flood insurance. That would make medical insurance much more affordable for many millions more Americans. Just as most of us don't need disability insurance, it is very inexpensive insurance to buy, so would few of us ever use catastrophic medical insurance so spreading the risk would make it very affordable for us all to buy.

There are so many ways to address the problem without government furnished healthcare.

Great, but what is the plan to get us to that point? I certainly haven't heard of any such plan.

 

[Foxfyre]

What's the point of insurance if even after having a top tier plan you will still be bankrupt and in debt for life?

The point is NO one can afford to pay for a major illness. Not even those who were insured.

We could if we went back to paying for our routine office visits, routine prescriptions, and innoculations, etc. out of pocket, paid off the emergency room bill, took on a substantial but manageable deductible on our hospitalization insurance, and bought into a pool for catastrophic medical insurance that would work very much like earthquake insurance or flood insurance. That would make medical insurance much more affordable for many millions more Americans. Just as most of us don't need disability insurance, it is very inexpensive insurance to buy, so would few of us ever use catastrophic medical insurance so spreading the risk would make it very affordable for us all to buy.

There are so many ways to address the problem without government furnished healthcare.

Great, but what is the plan to get us to that point? I certainly haven't heard of any such plan.

We have to get rid of the dictators we currently have in Congress and the White House and install freedom loving patriots in their stead. Such a plan or something better will quickly be forthcoming.

 

[RDD_1210]

We could if we went back to paying for our routine office visits, routine prescriptions, and innoculations, etc. out of pocket, paid off the emergency room bill, took on a substantial but manageable deductible on our hospitalization insurance, and bought into a pool for catastrophic medical insurance that would work very much like earthquake insurance or flood insurance. That would make medical insurance much more affordable for many millions more Americans. Just as most of us don't need disability insurance, it is very inexpensive insurance to buy, so would few of us ever use catastrophic medical insurance so spreading the risk would make it very affordable for us all to buy.

There are so many ways to address the problem without government furnished healthcare.

Great, but what is the plan to get us to that point? I certainly haven't heard of any such plan.

We have to get rid of the dictators we currently have in Congress and the White House and install freedom loving patriots in their stead. Such a plan or something better will quickly be forthcoming.

So there is no plan.