Obamanuts: Are you happy about the Obamacare delay?

[Joe Steel]

Health care is public policy.

It is? I thought it was a service provided by doctors.

This entire debate is over the attempt to make it public policy, to bring it under government control. We're asking ourselves, as a nation, if we want to make government responsible for providing us with health care.

Why not?

Markets can't do it. We've tried. They don't work.

 

[Joe Steel]

ask your dr.

You must be a low-effort thinker. You accept the talking points without understanding the issue.

No...You just have a pro single payer agenda.

My family doctor is leaving medicine entirely. He is only 57. The reason he gave me was it's due to Obamacare.

What makes you think your doctor knows anything about delivering health care to the entire population? Maybe he just wants to retire to a golf resort and let the poor die.

 

[Joe Steel]

You're oversimplifying the issue. No one is saying universal, single-payer would be cost-free to the user. We certainly would pay taxes for it and it could be designed with financial disincentives to overuse.

Oh please. Do you really think that a democrat run system is going to ever have within it a dis incentive that would mostly affect the very people who vote for those democrats?...Get out of town!

And youy know damned well Obama has championed the idea of universal health care.
So please, sell your bullshit story to someone who is interested.

Universal care does not mean absolutely free care.

 

[dblack]

Health care is public policy.

It is? I thought it was a service provided by doctors.

This entire debate is over the attempt to make it public policy, to bring it under government control. We're asking ourselves, as a nation, if we want to make government responsible for providing us with health care.

Why not?

Because I don't want government to assume the role of provider.

 

[Flopper]

what a mess Obama and his comrades in arms put on us people..you Obama supporters should be real proud
links in article at site

SNIP:

ObamaCare delay undermines entire White House agenda


posted at 1:01 pm on July 5, 2013 by Ed Morrissey






The White House wants to spin the delay in enforcing the employer mandate of ObamaCare as evidence that they’re listening to Americans and the business sector and attempting to be flexible on implementation. Rich Lowry isn’t buying it. In an essay yesterday for Politico, Lowry explains that the delay comes from the incompetence of the White House more than three years after pushing an unworkable bill through Congress, combined with its clear intention to manipulate the law for its own political benefit:


The administration can call it whatever it wants, but there is no hiding the embarrassment of a climbdown on a high-profile feature of President Barack Obama’s signature initiative — although the administration seemed determined to do all it could to hide it. If Bloomberg hadn’t broken the news on Tuesday, the administration was apparently planning to announce it on July 3 — only because the day before Thanksgiving and Christmas Eve were too far off.

The reason for the delay, we’re told, is incompetence. The administration’s story is that it simply couldn’t find a way to implement the insurance reporting requirements on employers within the time frame set out in the law. In this telling, the mandate was merely collateral damage — it had to be put off, along with the accompanying $2,000-per-employee fine on firms with more than 50 employees who don’t offer health coverage.

This just happens to be the mandate that is causing howls of pain from businesses and creating perverse incentives for them to limit their hiring or to hire part- rather than full-time employees. And it just happens that 2015 — the new target year for implementation — is after a midterm election year rather during one. It must all be a lucky break. …

Obamacare was sold on two flagrantly false promises: that you could keep the insurance you have and that prices for insurance would drop. But employers will dump significant numbers of employees onto the exchanges to save on their own health-care costs. And the latest indication of the law’s price shock came via The Wall Street Journal this week, which reported, “healthy consumers could see insurance rates double or even triple when they look for individual coverage.”

That demonstrates the underlying incompetence of the ObamaCare project, from start to finish. It promises something that it not only couldn’t deliver, but made all but impossible from its very existence. On top of that, it created a huge top-down bureaucracy that makes everything more costly for all participants in the system — government, providers, insurers, employers, and consumers. That also increased the likelihood of incompetence, capriciousness, and failure, which is a large part of the reason that the employer mandate had to be delayed … the other part being the approaching 2014 midterm election cycle, of course.

This creates a bigger headache for Obama and his administration than merely the Affordable Care Act rollout, though. They face two big policy debates in the coming months — immigration reform in the House, and the budget and debt ceiling in both chambers of Congress. By declaring the right to arbitrarily ignore statutory law and defy Congress in this matter, just how is Congress supposed to negotiate with the administration on anything else?

Allahpundit blogged about the impact on border-security statutes earlier this week, but Conn Carroll and Mickey Kaus point out another component in the comprehensive bill that might be even more vulnerable to Obama administration capriciousness:


Here is the sound bite I would deliver today if anybody wanted a sound bite from me, which they don’t:

Obama has unilaterally decided to suspend Obamacare’s mandate for employers after receiving business complaints;

Don’t you think he’ll also decide to suspend the Senate Gang of 8′s mandate that employers use “E-Verify” (to screen new employees for legal status) when he receives similar business complaints?

That’s especially true since, while some Democrats defend the employer mandate, neither liberals nor libertarians nor Latino groups like E-Verify. And the E-Verify “mandate” in the Gang of 8 bill is worded suspiciously loosely. Obama might not have to break the law to simply declare the mandate satisfied (and allow legalized illegals to go ahead and get their green cards).

What does that say for administration promises to sustain reductions in spending? To work on paying down the national debt? Neither of those get put into statutory law, and if the Obama administration thinks it can ignore statute, then budgetary promises are worth less than nothing at all.

In my column for The Fiscal Times, I recall the hysterics on the Left that decried the supposedly “imperial Presidency” of George W. Bush, and argue that the real thing has arrived:

all of it here
ObamaCare delay undermines entire White House agenda « Hot Air

Although the government, that is the IRS needs time to workout a lot of regs, I think one of the primary reasons for the delay is strictly political. The GOP will make repealing the law a major campaign issue in the midterms. The delay is meant to garner support from large corporate contributors in the midterms.

Since the law passed, Republicans have done everything possible to block implementation. Soon after the GOP lost its fight against Obamacare in Congress, it began warring against the new legislation in the courts, rounding up and backstopping litigants all the way up to the Supreme Court. Meanwhile, House Republicans have refused to appropriate enough funds to implement the Act, and have held a continuing series of votes to repeal it. Republican-led states have also done what they can to undermine Obamacare, refusing to set up their own health exchanges, and turning down federal money to expand Medicaid.

Corporate dissatisfaction with the employer mandate would have just added another issue for Democrats to deal with in the midterms. Also by delaying the mandate, it will defuse GOP efforts to blame any rate increases or other issues effecting large employers. Other implementations of the law such as the insurance exchanges and Medicaid expansion will help the Democrats.

 

[Rozman]

If anyone thinks this postponement is being done for the good of business or the people...

It's being done because it's good for....

Obama
His administration.
The Democrat party.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I bet the ObamaCare delay for employers also covers Congress and government employees...who were all hyperventilating about being forced onto the exchanges.

Congress is exempt from all the laws they foist upon us.

And all of your posts and all the other wingnuts posts in this thread show just how much you care!

http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...s-has-immunity-from-spying-but-you-don-t.html

This post makes no sense.
At least you are consistent.
Look, you are a true believer in all things liberal/socialist/progressive. Which makes you a non-thinker. You have emotions that you feel compelled to indulge.
We get it. So you can stop posting now.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Please illustrate your ideas. How does ACA magnify the problem and force aboard the sinking ship?

Insurance makes sense as a hedge against risk. But as a means of financing the regular expenses of life it's not rational and not sustainable. It distorts consumer demand and fuels inflation in the markets where it operates, and adds unnecessary overhead to every transaction it touches. Yet we have propped up and subsidized this practice in the health care market with misguided public policy for many decades.

Even with such support, the group health insurance business model is ultimately dysfunctional and doomed. But rather than let it die a 'healthy' death, and letting consumers and providers sort out better alternatives, our government is bailing out the insurance industry by committing all of us to their failed scheme.

Health care is a necessary service. Everyone gets sick and needs health care from time to time. However, not everyone can be assured of receiving it because of its high cost. To ensure everyone can afford it, the government has chosen support a variety of methods of making health care available. Group coverage, tax deductions and government provided care are some of the ways government makes access to health care available. Government does this without regard to economic efficiency because, as a People, we value human life so highly we cannot let anyone suffer because they can't afford health care. That's what happens when we trust the market to deliver it. It's just too expensive.

There is no such thing as "health care"....The proper term is MEDICAL care. Wrapped within the sphere of medical care we have 'well' care. That's physical exams or check ups.
This is NOT a public 'service'. Medical care is a product of the private sector. Medical care is not an entitlement. At least that which is not subsidized by for example medicare/medicaid/ veteran's care.
Medical care costs are driven by government mandate and lobbying by the insurance industry as well as lobbying by the pharmaceutical companies. It is also driven by the mountains of government red tape and bureaucracy which interferes with or even blocks access to certain procedures or medicines.
It is government involvement in the care of injury or cure of disease which drives the cost and drives the price.
UP until about 30 years ago, there were no HMO's. No PPO's. No gate keepers. Doctors NEVER practiced defensive medicine. They did not administer test upon test.
We did not have the anesthesiologist before administering an epidural injection for the mother to be in labor, "do you have insurance?"....Yeah, happened to me..
The blame for the mess that is the medical insurance industry, the way care is administered the cost and price of technology, equipment and medicine falls squarely on Capitol Hill....Those bastards never once gave a single thought to "what if what we are about to do does not work as intended"...
They fucked us. And now with Obamacare, we have to lube up again.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Health care is public policy.

It is? I thought it was a service provided by doctors.

This entire debate is over the attempt to make it public policy, to bring it under government control. We're asking ourselves, as a nation, if we want to make government responsible for providing us with health care.

Why not?

Markets can't do it. We've tried. They don't work.

You are wrong. You have been told by those with whom you agree with politically that market based care does not work.
And now you want to see this dysfunctional institution known as the US Federal government gain control of the entire medical industry? The very same government that can do NOTHING on time and within budget? The very same federal government that operates by throwing money at problems and then never demands accountability from those charged with the duty of spending it...Brilliant...
Tell me, Just what the hell do you think government control of medical care is going to do better?
I am old enough to remember market priced medical care and house calls.
The system worked fine until the federal government decided to 'fix' medical care...
Gee thanks...

 

[thereisnospoon]

what a mess Obama and his comrades in arms put on us people..you Obama supporters should be real proud
links in article at site

SNIP:

ObamaCare delay undermines entire White House agenda


posted at 1:01 pm on July 5, 2013 by Ed Morrissey






The White House wants to spin the delay in enforcing the employer mandate of ObamaCare as evidence that they’re listening to Americans and the business sector and attempting to be flexible on implementation. Rich Lowry isn’t buying it. In an essay yesterday for Politico, Lowry explains that the delay comes from the incompetence of the White House more than three years after pushing an unworkable bill through Congress, combined with its clear intention to manipulate the law for its own political benefit:


The administration can call it whatever it wants, but there is no hiding the embarrassment of a climbdown on a high-profile feature of President Barack Obama’s signature initiative — although the administration seemed determined to do all it could to hide it. If Bloomberg hadn’t broken the news on Tuesday, the administration was apparently planning to announce it on July 3 — only because the day before Thanksgiving and Christmas Eve were too far off.

The reason for the delay, we’re told, is incompetence. The administration’s story is that it simply couldn’t find a way to implement the insurance reporting requirements on employers within the time frame set out in the law. In this telling, the mandate was merely collateral damage — it had to be put off, along with the accompanying $2,000-per-employee fine on firms with more than 50 employees who don’t offer health coverage.

This just happens to be the mandate that is causing howls of pain from businesses and creating perverse incentives for them to limit their hiring or to hire part- rather than full-time employees. And it just happens that 2015 — the new target year for implementation — is after a midterm election year rather during one. It must all be a lucky break. …

Obamacare was sold on two flagrantly false promises: that you could keep the insurance you have and that prices for insurance would drop. But employers will dump significant numbers of employees onto the exchanges to save on their own health-care costs. And the latest indication of the law’s price shock came via The Wall Street Journal this week, which reported, “healthy consumers could see insurance rates double or even triple when they look for individual coverage.”

That demonstrates the underlying incompetence of the ObamaCare project, from start to finish. It promises something that it not only couldn’t deliver, but made all but impossible from its very existence. On top of that, it created a huge top-down bureaucracy that makes everything more costly for all participants in the system — government, providers, insurers, employers, and consumers. That also increased the likelihood of incompetence, capriciousness, and failure, which is a large part of the reason that the employer mandate had to be delayed … the other part being the approaching 2014 midterm election cycle, of course.

This creates a bigger headache for Obama and his administration than merely the Affordable Care Act rollout, though. They face two big policy debates in the coming months — immigration reform in the House, and the budget and debt ceiling in both chambers of Congress. By declaring the right to arbitrarily ignore statutory law and defy Congress in this matter, just how is Congress supposed to negotiate with the administration on anything else?

Allahpundit blogged about the impact on border-security statutes earlier this week, but Conn Carroll and Mickey Kaus point out another component in the comprehensive bill that might be even more vulnerable to Obama administration capriciousness:


Here is the sound bite I would deliver today if anybody wanted a sound bite from me, which they don’t:

Obama has unilaterally decided to suspend Obamacare’s mandate for employers after receiving business complaints;

Don’t you think he’ll also decide to suspend the Senate Gang of 8′s mandate that employers use “E-Verify” (to screen new employees for legal status) when he receives similar business complaints?

That’s especially true since, while some Democrats defend the employer mandate, neither liberals nor libertarians nor Latino groups like E-Verify. And the E-Verify “mandate” in the Gang of 8 bill is worded suspiciously loosely. Obama might not have to break the law to simply declare the mandate satisfied (and allow legalized illegals to go ahead and get their green cards).

What does that say for administration promises to sustain reductions in spending? To work on paying down the national debt? Neither of those get put into statutory law, and if the Obama administration thinks it can ignore statute, then budgetary promises are worth less than nothing at all.

In my column for The Fiscal Times, I recall the hysterics on the Left that decried the supposedly “imperial Presidency” of George W. Bush, and argue that the real thing has arrived:

all of it here
ObamaCare delay undermines entire White House agenda « Hot Air

Although the government, that is the IRS needs time to workout a lot of regs, I think one of the primary reasons for the delay is strictly political. The GOP will make repealing the law a major campaign issue in the midterms. The delay is meant to garner support from large corporate contributors in the midterms.

Since the law passed, Republicans have done everything possible to block implementation. Soon after the GOP lost its fight against Obamacare in Congress, it began warring against the new legislation in the courts, rounding up and backstopping litigants all the way up to the Supreme Court. Meanwhile, House Republicans have refused to appropriate enough funds to implement the Act, and have held a continuing series of votes to repeal it. Republican-led states have also done what they can to undermine Obamacare, refusing to set up their own health exchanges, and turning down federal money to expand Medicaid.

Corporate dissatisfaction with the employer mandate would have just added another issue for Democrats to deal with in the midterms. Also by delaying the mandate, it will defuse GOP efforts to blame any rate increases or other issues effecting large employers. Other implementations of the law such as the insurance exchanges and Medicaid expansion will help the Democrats.

All of this is a result of a majority of the American people believe Obamacare is very bad for the country and was rammed down their throats.
The GOP is reacting to the voices of their respective constituencies.
And since the majority of House members are GOP, the logical conclusion is that a majority of the people are conservatives or at least right leaning moderates. These are the people who object to socialized medicine in ANY form...Obamacare is a form of socialized medicine. Period.

 

[EriktheRed]

All of this is a result of a majority of the American people believe Obamacare is very bad for the country and was rammed down their throats.

Izzat a fact.

 

[lynn63]

I recently spoke to a close friend of mine, who told me she is expecting her second child. Unfortunately, her company was forced to change healthcare plans from HMOs to PPOs, which the company said was a direct result of the new government plan. As a result, she is will have to face more out of pocket costs - all thanks to Obamacare.

I know a man and woman who have conditions which preclude coverage at any price. Beginning next January they will be able to finally get health insurance at a reasonable price -- all thanks to Obamacare.

Your friends do not have to wait until January, anyone with a pre-existing condition can sign up for Obamacare right now. A friend of mind already has it.

 

[lynn63]

If everyone complies to the mandate in obtaining insurance in 2014, there will be no need to mandate the employers in 2015.

 

[mudwhistle]

Let's see.......

It was passed in 2009 and now everyone has to wait till Jan 1 2015 for it to really kick in.

2 years ago I asked Longlaugher if she knew anyone who had actually gotten insurance from the bill. She said her son qualified under her policy.

Come to find out her son is a 27 year old police officer who already had insurance from his job.



Nobody can say they got any actual benefit from Obamacare.

Nobody. And we're still waiting going on 5 years after it was passed.

Does anyone ever get the idea that it just might be a scam?

Last thing I heard was that most of the money that goes into it will go into voter registration, not health care. ACORN.

 

[thereisnospoon]

If anyone thinks this postponement is being done for the good of business or the people...

It's being done because it's good for....

Obama
His administration.
The Democrat party.

You get one atta boy for that! And added rep!

 

[thereisnospoon]

All of this is a result of a majority of the American people believe Obamacare is very bad for the country and was rammed down their throats.

Izzat a fact.

Yeah...it's a fact...Take some time to go outside your circle of liberal friends and ask around.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I recently spoke to a close friend of mine, who told me she is expecting her second child. Unfortunately, her company was forced to change healthcare plans from HMOs to PPOs, which the company said was a direct result of the new government plan. As a result, she is will have to face more out of pocket costs - all thanks to Obamacare.

I know a man and woman who have conditions which preclude coverage at any price. Beginning next January they will be able to finally get health insurance at a reasonable price -- all thanks to Obamacare.

Your friends do not have to wait until January, anyone with a pre-existing condition can sign up for Obamacare right now. A friend of mind already has it.

Has WHAT?
Sorry, what they 'have' is nothing to do with Obamacare. It does not implement until 2014. AND it may be delayed. It is not fully funded yet.
And there is no way a 'carte blanche' unregulated coverage of pre-existing conditions is possible...
In its present form, ACA is going to cost working middle and upper income people tons of money. That is an inescapable truth. And the most criminal issue with it is that the government will 'hide' the cost in payroll deductions and confiscation of tax refunds.
People will be writing big checks to the IRS every April.
This thing SUCKS.

 

[hortysir]

If everyone complies to the mandate in obtaining insurance in 2014, there will be no need to mandate the employers in 2015.

Just how in the hell does one sign up to receive Obamacare?

I gots to get me some of that Obamacare

 

[thereisnospoon]

If everyone complies to the mandate in obtaining insurance in 2014, there will be no need to mandate the employers in 2015.

HUH?..
Please. By all means expound upon your statement.
I cannot wait for this explanation.

 

[usmcstinger]

If everyone complies to the mandate in obtaining insurance in 2014, there will be no need to mandate the employers in 2015.

Provide the section of Obamacare that backs up your statement.