Obamanuts: Are you happy about the Obamacare delay?

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

krist, this is a right wing circle jerk if I ever seen one.


Am I happy about the delay, of course not. However, as a huge fan of any sort of change in the American health care front. Once the single payer option was booted out of the bill this was inevitable, as far as a delay goes. there will be more.

My wife and i just had our first child about a month ago. I have excellent insurance, or so I thought and let me tell you, the entire process was a nightmare. To make a long story short Medicare was almost a better option, now chew on that.

I recently spoke to a close friend of mine, who told me she is expecting her second child. Unfortunately, her company was forced to change healthcare plans from HMOs to PPOs, which the company said was a direct result of the new government plan. As a result, she is will have to face more out of pocket costs - all thanks to Obamacare.

I find more and more people, like Synthaholic, who don't fully comprehend the effects that followed the implementation of Obamacare. So I've included some resources that show the effect this new government plan is having on many employees, who believed Obamacare would actually allow employees and patients to keep the same doctors. Let's dig a little further into that "Obama promise" speech.

When it becomes law, families will save on their premiums,” President Obama declared in his weekly radio address before Christmas, pitching his health care reform.

If only that were so. Nobody who tracks health insurance sees any sign of softening premium prices for people who already have insurance, ObamaCare or not. Premiums for 2010 were up 10% and are predicted to keep growing at the same rate in coming years.

Also, the legislation requires HMOs to pay $7 billion annually in new fees. That will get passed on to individuals and employers who buy the policies. So-called Cadillac health plans will be taxed at 40%, for anything spent on premiums above $23,000 for a family or $8,500 for an individual, according to the latest Senate bill. The $149 billion this is expected to raise over 10 years will also be passed on directly to employers (and their workers) in the form of higher premiums.

Why ObamaCare Will Raise Your Bill - Forbes

This link below, shows the growing direct result of these higher health care costs being passed down to employers.

HMOs Decline, Consumer Plans Rise As Health Insurance Option - Forbes

 

[Synthaholic]

That was precisely my point in a health care system where the individual chose a provider and a plan over the employer providing it. This way it would be a part of their individual coverage when they travel from employer to employer. How often do people have to wait until they acquired a certain amount of hours first, simply because they have signed on with a new employer? I have not heard Obamacare changing THAT policy standard. Individual plans would require less paperwork, as you take it with you, unless you opt to change coverages.

OK. It's a solution to problem but that's not our world and it's not likely to be in the near future.

As long as we're dreaming, though, let's dream of universal, single-payer. The government provides health insurance to everyone. Call it Medicare Part E because Everyone is covered whether employed or not, rich or poor or anything else. It never lapses, never is cancelled and covers everything. That would be the best possible solution.

In a perfect world all would receive free from out of pocket expense on demand medical care.
Any thinking individual knows this is impossible.
The money MUST come from somewhere. The Euros have come to the realization that taxation cannot come anywhere close to covering the cost. So care must be in certain ways, rationed.

We could go back to Eisenhower tax rates...

 

[Synthaholic]

One man's dream is another man's nightmare, eh? On this July 4th, I'm going to suggest we remain free to decide for ourselves how to manage our healthcare costs.

And how well has that worked? In the last 30 years, we have seen the healthcare cost triple.

Because the federal government decided to stick its nose into the industry which was functioning correctly for most Americans.
Now the same federal government has done something else to fix the problem it created in the first place.

It isn't functioning correctly.

 

[Synthaholic]

ask your dr.

You must be a low-effort thinker. You accept the talking points without understanding the issue.

No...You just have a pro single payer agenda.
My family doctor is leaving medicine entirely. He is only 57. The reason he gave me was it's due to Obamacare.

Fuck him then. There will be ten to take his place.

 

[Synthaholic]

You must be a low-effort thinker. You accept the talking points without understanding the issue.

No...You just have a pro single payer agenda.

My family doctor is leaving medicine entirely. He is only 57. The reason he gave me was it's due to Obamacare.

What makes you think your doctor knows anything about delivering health care to the entire population? Maybe he just wants to retire to a golf resort and let the poor die.

He is obviously in it for the money, not the medicine.

 

[Synthaholic]

I bet the ObamaCare delay for employers also covers Congress and government employees...who were all hyperventilating about being forced onto the exchanges.

Congress is exempt from all the laws they foist upon us.

And all of your posts and all the other wingnuts posts in this thread show just how much you care!

http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...s-has-immunity-from-spying-but-you-don-t.html

This post makes no sense.
At least you are consistent.
Look, you are a true believer in all things liberal/socialist/progressive. Which makes you a non-thinker. You have emotions that you feel compelled to indulge.
We get it. So you can stop posting now.

Your inability to comprehend the posts you quoted is quite entertaining.

Now try to read it again.

 

[Synthaholic]

Yeah...it's a fact...Take some time to go outside your circle of liberal friends and ask around.

I'm sure you can back that up, right?

Is RealClearPolitics a "reliable source" for you?

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - Public Approval of Obama's Health Care Law

Who gives a shit what a misinformed, American Idol-watching public wants? In 5 years they will be saying " get your gummint hands off my Obamacare!"

 

[mudwhistle]

I'm sure you can back that up, right?

Is RealClearPolitics a "reliable source" for you?

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - Public Approval of Obama's Health Care Law

Who gives a shit what a misinformed, American Idol-watching public wants? In 5 years they will be saying " get your gummint hands off my Obamacare!"

Or they'll be wanting to do what the Egyptians did..........

 

[Synthaholic]

I don't think the delay is very troubling. The Chamber of Commerce isn't very troubled by it either. In fact they support the President's one year delay.

I highly support the healthcare exchanges in Obamacare. They are already proving effective in states.

I think the naysayers have been wrong about all of their predictions so far. In the last 5 years they've told us that healthcare spending would go up, but in fact it has slowed some because of the cost-control measures and other cuts the President implemented.

As a practical issue, I think a public option would eliminate there even having to be an employer mandate. Why even get employers involved in healthcare administration stuff?

In some ways, I don't think Obamacare went far enough. A totally private healthcare system has given us the most expensive system on the planet and with no better results than countries that spend half the amount as we do. I rather like the idea that employers and insurance companies are not even players on the scene. Just you, your healthcare provider, and a healthcare plan that is made affordable by laws that make sure healthcare is about getting people healthy instead of being about the profit motive.

Excellent post.

No one will even attempt to refute it.

 

[mudwhistle]

I don't think the delay is very troubling. The Chamber of Commerce isn't very troubled by it either. In fact they support the President's one year delay.

I highly support the healthcare exchanges in Obamacare. They are already proving effective in states.

I think the naysayers have been wrong about all of their predictions so far. In the last 5 years they've told us that healthcare spending would go up, but in fact it has slowed some because of the cost-control measures and other cuts the President implemented.

As a practical issue, I think a public option would eliminate there even having to be an employer mandate. Why even get employers involved in healthcare administration stuff?

In some ways, I don't think Obamacare went far enough. A totally private healthcare system has given us the most expensive system on the planet and with no better results than countries that spend half the amount as we do. I rather like the idea that employers and insurance companies are not even players on the scene. Just you, your healthcare provider, and a healthcare plan that is made affordable by laws that make sure healthcare is about getting people healthy instead of being about the profit motive.

Excellent post.

No one will even attempt to refute it.

Well, you lied.

Costs are tripling for individuals who don't have workplace sponsored health coverage. There is nothing affordable about this law. As a matter of fact it does the opposite. They had to delay an already delayed law's full implementation because of the political ramifications to Democrats next year. They know that it will be a disaster.

 

[lynn63]

If everyone complies to the mandate in obtaining insurance in 2014, there will be no need to mandate the employers in 2015.

Provide the section of Obamacare that backs up your statement.

OMG! Its common sense!

All individuals have to obtain health coverage in 2014. There is no delay for them. So you tell me when 2015 rolls around, who is left for the employers to have to buy coverage for?

Is the government going to fine them in 2015 because their employees were mandated to buy coverage in 2014? Is there employees now going to be taken off the exchange since now their employer decided to provide coverage in 2015?

 

[mudwhistle]

You must be a low-effort thinker. You accept the talking points without understanding the issue.

No...You just have a pro single payer agenda.
My family doctor is leaving medicine entirely. He is only 57. The reason he gave me was it's due to Obamacare.

Fuck him then. There will be ten to take his place.

You can only hope........if you're on drugs.

I've had several different doctors since I left the military. The best one retired a few years ago. I guess it's just not worth it to pay $200k for an education that you're going to have to pay back for 30 years to the tune of $800 per month. Sort of like buying a house. Plus the focus by the White House is on health care and not health. Why they refuse to focus on the real problem in America, an out of shape public, I'll never know. It's like they want us to be sick so they can force their AHCA down our throats.

 

[Synthaholic]

Is RealClearPolitics a "reliable source" for you?

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - Public Approval of Obama's Health Care Law

Who gives a shit what a misinformed, American Idol-watching public wants? In 5 years they will be saying " get your gummint hands off my Obamacare!"

Or they'll be wanting to do what the Egyptians did..........

Elect the Muslim Brotherhood? Nah.

 

[Synthaholic]

I don't think the delay is very troubling. The Chamber of Commerce isn't very troubled by it either. In fact they support the President's one year delay.

I highly support the healthcare exchanges in Obamacare. They are already proving effective in states.

I think the naysayers have been wrong about all of their predictions so far. In the last 5 years they've told us that healthcare spending would go up, but in fact it has slowed some because of the cost-control measures and other cuts the President implemented.

As a practical issue, I think a public option would eliminate there even having to be an employer mandate. Why even get employers involved in healthcare administration stuff?

In some ways, I don't think Obamacare went far enough. A totally private healthcare system has given us the most expensive system on the planet and with no better results than countries that spend half the amount as we do. I rather like the idea that employers and insurance companies are not even players on the scene. Just you, your healthcare provider, and a healthcare plan that is made affordable by laws that make sure healthcare is about getting people healthy instead of being about the profit motive.

Excellent post.

No one will even attempt to refute it.

Well, you lied.

Costs are tripling for individuals who don't have workplace sponsored health coverage. There is nothing affordable about this law. As a matter of fact it does the opposite. They had to delay an already delayed law's full implementation because of the political ramifications to Democrats next year. They know that it will be a disaster.

California’s likely health insurance rates under new law are lower than expected

By Sandhya Somashekhar,May 23, 2013

California health officials on Thursday unveiled the likely rates that insurers will charge under President Obama’s health-care law — and they are lower than expected, rebutting warnings by critics that many people will experience “rate shock” once the law is fully implemented.

On average, a person who chooses a mid-level plan can expect to pay around $321 a month, about $100 less than the amount projected by the Congressional Budget Office when the law was being debated in Washington. For low-income people, much of that cost will be offset by rebates from the federal government.

But some middle-income people who don’t get insurance from their employers will end up with hefty monthly bills, California officials acknowledged.

“There have been many predictions of sticker shock, and well, there may be some sticker shock,” Peter Lee, director of Covered California, the state agency implementing the law, said at a news conference — explaining that customers would be surprised at how low the rates are.


*snip*

 

[EriktheRed]

You tell us, Sparky.

Fact...Most uninformed or low info voters vote democrat.
They also avoid challenges( which are viewed by them as problems) by taking the path of least resistance. And because the democrat party is the home of the social safety net, people who are uninformed will vote for those who provide that safety net which to them represents the path of least resistance.

Fact. You're full of shit.

Maybe he can explain to us why Republicans have a problem with efforts to get word out to people how the law works. After all, that would help do something about that "low information" problem being discussed.

 

[hortysir]

Sorry, Erik that poll was from 2012

Here ya go:
(this one's Kaiser, tho)

More up-to-date than the first source, but neither breaks down the reasons for negative feelings.

It's been pointed out many times in the past that if one looked at the reasons why people disapproved of "Obamacare", it would show that a subset of them didn't like it because it didn't go far enough in the direction of single-payer. Couple that with those who approve of the ACA and you actually have a majority that don't agree with the Republican view of it. I'm gonna go out on a limb, too, and say I don't believe a lot of those who disapprove of it because it's not "socialist" enough want to go backwards and repeal it.

I think you're right. There is something for just about everyone to hate in the ACA, employer mandates, employee mandates, lack of single payer, lack of true universal coverage, more government regulations, fear of higher premiums, fear of doctor shortage, fear of rising cost, and more profits for insurance companies. However, I seriously doubt that very many people really want to return to 2008 with 50 million people without health insurance and the number rising yearly, people being denied coverage for pre-existing converge, and insurance companies refusing to pay because you got too sick.

Just repealing the ACA is nearly impossible. If it was repealed, it would have to be replaced and that would be the problem. The Republican Healthcare plan was a plan to transition form the 2008 healthcare system. A Republican replacement plan could not ignore the ACA. It would have to transition from the ACA to a replacement plan which would be much harder than going from the 2008 system.

I do believe the ACA is going to be amended. There are things that are not going to work, and things that are going have to be changed plus there's going to be needed enhancements that will become obvious. This is what happened with Social Security and Medicare and it will happen with the ACA.

I believe those things are more than just 'fears'.
There practically assured.
That's why there shouldn't be a "however" after that kind of list.

It's just plain out scary

 

[EriktheRed]

More up-to-date than the first source, but neither breaks down the reasons for negative feelings.

It's been pointed out many times in the past that if one looked at the reasons why people disapproved of "Obamacare", it would show that a subset of them didn't like it because it didn't go far enough in the direction of single-payer. Couple that with those who approve of the ACA and you actually have a majority that don't agree with the Republican view of it. I'm gonna go out on a limb, too, and say I don't believe a lot of those who disapprove of it because it's not "socialist" enough want to go backwards and repeal it.

I think you're right. There is something for just about everyone to hate in the ACA, employer mandates, employee mandates, lack of single payer, lack of true universal coverage, more government regulations, fear of higher premiums, fear of doctor shortage, fear of rising cost, and more profits for insurance companies. However, I seriously doubt that very many people really want to return to 2008 with 50 million people without health insurance and the number rising yearly, people being denied coverage for pre-existing converge, and insurance companies refusing to pay because you got too sick.

Just repealing the ACA is nearly impossible. If it was repealed, it would have to be replaced and that would be the problem. The Republican Healthcare plan was a plan to transition form the 2008 healthcare system. A Republican replacement plan could not ignore the ACA. It would have to transition from the ACA to a replacement plan which would be much harder than going from the 2008 system.

I do believe the ACA is going to be amended. There are things that are not going to work, and things that are going have to be changed plus there's going to be needed enhancements that will become obvious. This is what happened with Social Security and Medicare and it will happen with the ACA.

I believe those things are more than just 'fears'.
There practically assured.
That's why there shouldn't be a "however" after that kind of list.

It's just plain out scary

What's the basis for the assertion that these are all "practically assured"

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Excellent post.

No one will even attempt to refute it.

Well, you lied.

Costs are tripling for individuals who don't have workplace sponsored health coverage. There is nothing affordable about this law. As a matter of fact it does the opposite. They had to delay an already delayed law's full implementation because of the political ramifications to Democrats next year. They know that it will be a disaster.

California’s likely health insurance rates under new law are lower than expected

By Sandhya Somashekhar,May 23, 2013

California health officials on Thursday unveiled the likely rates that insurers will charge under President Obama’s health-care law — and they are lower than expected, rebutting warnings by critics that many people will experience “rate shock” once the law is fully implemented.

*snip*

Employers are already experiencing higher insurance costs, passed down as the result of added fees proposed through PPACA.

Beginning in 2014, insurers will be required to pay two new fees as a result of provisions contained in the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA).

1 Health Insurance Industry Fee – This fee on health insurers (including HMOs) starts at $8 billion in 2014 and increases year over year before reaching $14.3 billion in 2018. After 2018, it will continue to increase with premium growth. The fee, which applies only to insured business, will be based on each insurer’s share of the taxable health insurance premium base (among all health insurers of U.S. health risks).

2. Reinsurance Assessment – This assessment on health plans totals $25 billion, which will be collected over the three-year period from 2014 through 2016. The majority of the money will be used to fund a reinsurance program, which is intended to lessen the impact of high-risk individuals entering the individual market. The assessment applies to both insured and self-insured commercial medical plans.

http://www.cigna.com/assets/docs/ab...-industry-and-reinsurance-fees-fact-sheet.pdf

 

[hortysir]

I think you're right. There is something for just about everyone to hate in the ACA, employer mandates, employee mandates, lack of single payer, lack of true universal coverage, more government regulations, fear of higher premiums, fear of doctor shortage, fear of rising cost, and more profits for insurance companies. However, I seriously doubt that very many people really want to return to 2008 with 50 million people without health insurance and the number rising yearly, people being denied coverage for pre-existing converge, and insurance companies refusing to pay because you got too sick.

Just repealing the ACA is nearly impossible. If it was repealed, it would have to be replaced and that would be the problem. The Republican Healthcare plan was a plan to transition form the 2008 healthcare system. A Republican replacement plan could not ignore the ACA. It would have to transition from the ACA to a replacement plan which would be much harder than going from the 2008 system.

I do believe the ACA is going to be amended. There are things that are not going to work, and things that are going have to be changed plus there's going to be needed enhancements that will become obvious. This is what happened with Social Security and Medicare and it will happen with the ACA.

I believe those things are more than just 'fears'.
There practically assured.
That's why there shouldn't be a "however" after that kind of list.

It's just plain out scary

What's the basis for the assertion that these are all "practically assured"

Can you refute any of them?

I submit that they're true.
Prove me wrong

 

[thereisnospoon]

I don't think the delay is very troubling. The Chamber of Commerce isn't very troubled by it either. In fact they support the President's one year delay.

I highly support the healthcare exchanges in Obamacare. They are already proving effective in states.

I think the naysayers have been wrong about all of their predictions so far. In the last 5 years they've told us that healthcare spending would go up, but in fact it has slowed some because of the cost-control measures and other cuts the President implemented.

As a practical issue, I think a public option would eliminate there even having to be an employer mandate. Why even get employers involved in healthcare administration stuff?

In some ways, I don't think Obamacare went far enough. A totally private healthcare system has given us the most expensive system on the planet and with no better results than countries that spend half the amount as we do. I rather like the idea that employers and insurance companies are not even players on the scene. Just you, your healthcare provider, and a healthcare plan that is made affordable by laws that make sure healthcare is about getting people healthy instead of being about the profit motive.

Explain and support with links the specifics of those 'cost controls'...
I have no clue from where you got your information, but Obama care does NONE of the things you claim.
First, representatives of the largest insurers wrote most of the ACA bill.
Second. The system is NOT private. In fact it is heavily controlled by government regulations and mandates.
The federal government wrecked a system that worked best for the most Americans.
And now with ACA they want to fix the fix....Great.