Obama's wrong. Mass killings aren't uncommon in other countries

[2aguy]

If guns make us safer, then 300 million guns in the U.S. should make us the safest nation in history.

The opposite is the case.

Yeah...I don't remember the death camps that killed 12 million Europeans here in the U.S.....and again, Americans use guns to stop 2 million violent criminal attacks a year on average...

2,000,000 violent crimes prevented and lives saved

2013...accidental gun deaths....505

2013...gun murders per the FBI table 8.....8,454

You do the math...which number is bigger....

You dodge the question, no surprise. And you try to present a straw man.

If guns make us safer, how many guns does America need to be safe? 500 million? A billion?

Can't answer this question?

I can answer the question....a gun makes the individual citizen safer.....you collectivists need to see individual human beings and not just groups sorted by wealth, class, gender, religion and race.

You can't refute those numbers so you dodge the answer...typical anti gun extremist tactic...

 

[tinydancer]

Does anyone else find this hysterically funny?



"Various officials in the Mexican government have urged that American gun laws be made more like Mexico’s, and President Obama at various times in his career has endorsed several proposals which would make American gun laws much more like Mexican ones.

These proposals including banning almost all gun stores, universal gun registration, elimination of the right to bear arms, and the prohibition of many common firearms."

Mexico s gun control laws A model for the United States - The Washington Post

Mexico’s gun control laws: A model for the United States?

The US gets its drugs from Mexico
Mexico gets its guns from the US

The drug trade is driving the gun violence in Mexico

Actually no.....Mexico gets the bulk of it's illegal guns from Europe and China.......

70% of the guns in Mexico come from the US

Smuggling of firearms into Mexico - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Here's how they came up with the bogus numbers. They're bullshit.
Completely skewered stats. This whole deal has been debunked.

"According to the GAO report, some 30,000 firearms were seized from criminals by Mexican authorities in 2008.

Of these 30,000 firearms, information pertaining to 7,200 of them (24 percent) was submitted to the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) for tracing.

Of these 7,200 guns, only about 4,000 could be traced by the ATF, and of these 4,000, some 3,480 (87 percent) were shown to have come from the United States.

This means that the 87 percent figure relates to the number of weapons submitted by the Mexican government to the ATF that could be successfully traced and not from the total number of weapons seized by Mexican authorities or even from the total number of weapons submitted to the ATF for tracing.

In fact, the 3,480 guns positively traced to the United States equals less than 12 percent of the total arms seized in Mexico in 2008 and less than 48 percent of all those submitted by the Mexican government to the ATF for tracing.

This means that almost 90 percent of the guns seized in Mexico in 2008 were not traced back to the United States."

Mexico s Gun Supply and the 90 Percent Myth Stratfor

 

[IsaacNewton]

I know its hard for you to follow, but try.

If individuals are made safer by more guns, and a neighborhood, or city, state, or country, is just a collection of individuals, which they are. Then why aren't these made safer by more guns?

You vitriol only hurts your position. You can't explain this because it doesn't fit your false view of reality.

Reality dictates, if guns make people safer, more guns would make more people safe.

But they don't.

 

[tinydancer]

If guns make us safer, then 300 million guns in the U.S. should make us the safest nation in history.

The opposite is the case.

Yeah...I don't remember the death camps that killed 12 million Europeans here in the U.S.....and again, Americans use guns to stop 2 million violent criminal attacks a year on average...

2,000,000 violent crimes prevented and lives saved

2013...accidental gun deaths....505

2013...gun murders per the FBI table 8.....8,454

You do the math...which number is bigger....

You dodge the question, no surprise. And you try to present a straw man.

If guns make us safer, how many guns does America need to be safe? 500 million? A billion?

Can't answer this question?

America is already a very safe country to live in.

 

[2aguy]

If guns make us safer, then 300 million guns in the U.S. should make us the safest nation in history.

The opposite is the case.

Yeah...I don't remember the death camps that killed 12 million Europeans here in the U.S.....and again, Americans use guns to stop 2 million violent criminal attacks a year on average...

2,000,000 violent crimes prevented and lives saved

2013...accidental gun deaths....505

2013...gun murders per the FBI table 8.....8,454

You do the math...which number is bigger....

You dodge the question, no surprise. And you try to present a straw man.

If guns make us safer, how many guns does America need to be safe? 500 million? A billion?

Can't answer this question?

America is already a very safe country to live in.

As long as you stay out of democrat controlled cities you are as safe here as you would be in Europe...until the immigrants from violent countries start changing the crime rates there......

 

[2aguy]

I know its hard for you to follow, but try.

If individuals are made safer by more guns, and a neighborhood, or city, state, or country, is just a collection of individuals, which they are. Then why aren't these made safer by more guns?

You vitriol only hurts your position. You can't explain this because it doesn't fit your false view of reality.

Reality dictates, if guns make people safer, more guns would make more people safe.

But they don't.

They in fact are.....notice that in these cities they have the strictest gun control laws.....only the criminals have guns and even with concealed carry just passed in Illinois, Wisconsin and D.C. it takes a while for it to effect the crime rate and that doesn't take into account how hard democrats make it for law abiding citizens to get guns....and the fact that democrats ruin their police departments, and that the police are the main line of defense against criminals....crime rates in democrat controlled cities are artificially high to begin with....

And guns do make people safer...using a gun to defend yourself makes you far more likely to survive and to be unharmed, and they are the best way to stop rape as well....

There are 29 studies on concealed carry....18 show that concealed carry lowers the crime rate, 10 show it doesn't effect the crime rate and 1 that shows it increases the crime rate...so yes....allowing citizens to carry guns

1) protects that individual from violent attack

2) helps create a blanket effect of protection driving criminals to do more property crime where they won't encounter possibly armed victims.....

 

[Redfish]

I know its hard for you to follow, but try.

If individuals are made safer by more guns, and a neighborhood, or city, state, or country, is just a collection of individuals, which they are. Then why aren't these made safer by more guns?

You vitriol only hurts your position. You can't explain this because it doesn't fit your false view of reality.

Reality dictates, if guns make people safer, more guns would make more people safe.

But they don't.

guns in the hands of sane adults make the country safer. guns in the hands of criminals, thugs, and lunatics make the country more dangerous.

Chicago is the perfect example, very very strict gun laws and a very very high gun murder rate. Its not the guns its who has them that is the problem.

 

[Care4all]

I know its hard for you to follow, but try.

If individuals are made safer by more guns, and a neighborhood, or city, state, or country, is just a collection of individuals, which they are. Then why aren't these made safer by more guns?

You vitriol only hurts your position. You can't explain this because it doesn't fit your false view of reality.

Reality dictates, if guns make people safer, more guns would make more people safe.

But they don't.

guns in the hands of sane adults make the country safer. guns in the hands of criminals, thugs, and lunatics make the country more dangerous.

Chicago is the perfect example, very very strict gun laws and a very very high gun murder rate. Its not the guns its who has them that is the problem.

How strict are Illinois gun laws? Any law abiding citizen can own one....handgun within 72 hours, 48 for a shotgun? Conceal carry with permit?

 

[rightwinger]

I know its hard for you to follow, but try.

If individuals are made safer by more guns, and a neighborhood, or city, state, or country, is just a collection of individuals, which they are. Then why aren't these made safer by more guns?

You vitriol only hurts your position. You can't explain this because it doesn't fit your false view of reality.

Reality dictates, if guns make people safer, more guns would make more people safe.

But they don't.

guns in the hands of sane adults make the country safer. guns in the hands of criminals, thugs, and lunatics make the country more dangerous.

Chicago is the perfect example, very very strict gun laws and a very very high gun murder rate. Its not the guns its who has them that is the problem.

Problem is all the criminals, thugs, and lunatics pose as sane adults and the NRA blocks any effort to keep guns away from them

 

[M14 Shooter]

"Once again, innocent people were killed in part because someone who wanted to inflict harm had no trouble getting their hands on a gun. …

It is impossible to pass a law that will prevent people from breaking the law, any attempt to do so proceeds from a false premise.

 

[tinydancer]

Because Mexican gun laws are so terrific WE should be like Mexico.

From the article.

Mexico’s gun control laws: A model for the United States?

Various officials in the Mexican government have urged that American gun laws be made more like Mexico’s, and President Obama at various times in his career has endorsed several proposals which would make American gun laws much more like Mexican ones.

These proposals including banning almost all gun stores, universal gun registration, elimination of the right to bear arms, and the prohibition of many common firearms.

Mexico s gun control laws A model for the United States - The Washington Post

 

[Care4all]

Because Mexican gun laws are so terrific WE should be like Mexico.

From the article.

Mexico’s gun control laws: A model for the United States?

Various officials in the Mexican government have urged that American gun laws be made more like Mexico’s, and President Obama at various times in his career has endorsed several proposals which would make American gun laws much more like Mexican ones.

These proposals including banning almost all gun stores, universal gun registration, elimination of the right to bear arms, and the prohibition of many common firearms.

Mexico s gun control laws A model for the United States - The Washington Post

I don't believe Mexico is an Advanced westernized country, so getting us to follow them is kind of silly isn't it? Or comparing us to them is kind of silly isn't it? Unless you think we would turn in to an impoverished Mexico if we had their gun laws?

 

[tinydancer]

Because Mexican gun laws are so terrific WE should be like Mexico.

From the article.

Mexico’s gun control laws: A model for the United States?

Various officials in the Mexican government have urged that American gun laws be made more like Mexico’s, and President Obama at various times in his career has endorsed several proposals which would make American gun laws much more like Mexican ones.

These proposals including banning almost all gun stores, universal gun registration, elimination of the right to bear arms, and the prohibition of many common firearms.

Mexico s gun control laws A model for the United States - The Washington Post

I don't believe Mexico is an Advanced westernized country, so getting us to follow them is kind of silly isn't it? Or comparing us to them is kind of silly isn't it? Unless you think we would turn in to an impoverished Mexico if we had their gun laws?

Good grief you don't believe Mexico is an advanced westernized country? You're kidding right?

Certainly there are regions that are impoverished. Just like there are in Canada and the US.

Certainly there are far too many corrupt politicians. Certainly there are far too many drug cartels but that goes back to corrupt politicians.

But Mexico is a wonderfully diverse and advanced country. Just a superb culture.

At one point when my husband was at Saturn for PPG the company was floating sending us to Mexico if we wanted to go and I studied the country intently.

Just lovely. You have to remember for as many Mexicans that try to get into America there are twice as many Central Americans trying to get into Mexico.

 

[2aguy]

Because Mexican gun laws are so terrific WE should be like Mexico.

From the article.

Mexico’s gun control laws: A model for the United States?

Various officials in the Mexican government have urged that American gun laws be made more like Mexico’s, and President Obama at various times in his career has endorsed several proposals which would make American gun laws much more like Mexican ones.

These proposals including banning almost all gun stores, universal gun registration, elimination of the right to bear arms, and the prohibition of many common firearms.

Mexico s gun control laws A model for the United States - The Washington Post

I don't believe Mexico is an Advanced westernized country, so getting us to follow them is kind of silly isn't it? Or comparing us to them is kind of silly isn't it? Unless you think we would turn in to an impoverished Mexico if we had their gun laws?

You say if we only had stricter gun laws we would be safer...Mexico has stricter gun laws and they are not safer.....and before you hide behind the "impoverished" Mexico defense....you are the ones telling us that stricter gun laws would make a country safer.....you say the gun laws...without regard to anything else, will make them safer...and since it isn't the case, why are you wrong, and why would it be different here?

 

[Redfish]

I know its hard for you to follow, but try.

If individuals are made safer by more guns, and a neighborhood, or city, state, or country, is just a collection of individuals, which they are. Then why aren't these made safer by more guns?

You vitriol only hurts your position. You can't explain this because it doesn't fit your false view of reality.

Reality dictates, if guns make people safer, more guns would make more people safe.

But they don't.

guns in the hands of sane adults make the country safer. guns in the hands of criminals, thugs, and lunatics make the country more dangerous.

Chicago is the perfect example, very very strict gun laws and a very very high gun murder rate. Its not the guns its who has them that is the problem.

How strict are Illinois gun laws? Any law abiding citizen can own one....handgun within 72 hours, 48 for a shotgun? Conceal carry with permit?

the city of Chicago has its own laws which are much stricter than state laws. Its usually best to check into something before spouting like a fool.

 

[Redfish]

I know its hard for you to follow, but try.

If individuals are made safer by more guns, and a neighborhood, or city, state, or country, is just a collection of individuals, which they are. Then why aren't these made safer by more guns?

You vitriol only hurts your position. You can't explain this because it doesn't fit your false view of reality.

Reality dictates, if guns make people safer, more guns would make more people safe.

But they don't.

guns in the hands of sane adults make the country safer. guns in the hands of criminals, thugs, and lunatics make the country more dangerous.

Chicago is the perfect example, very very strict gun laws and a very very high gun murder rate. Its not the guns its who has them that is the problem.

Problem is all the criminals, thugs, and lunatics pose as sane adults and the NRA blocks any effort to keep guns away from them

That is a bald faced lie. The NRA fully supports background checks and bans on ownership by felons or the mentally ill. The NRA also is against gun possession by criminals and illegal purchases of guns.

Do you ever tell the truth about anything?

 

[2aguy]

I know its hard for you to follow, but try.

If individuals are made safer by more guns, and a neighborhood, or city, state, or country, is just a collection of individuals, which they are. Then why aren't these made safer by more guns?

You vitriol only hurts your position. You can't explain this because it doesn't fit your false view of reality.

Reality dictates, if guns make people safer, more guns would make more people safe.

But they don't.

guns in the hands of sane adults make the country safer. guns in the hands of criminals, thugs, and lunatics make the country more dangerous.

Chicago is the perfect example, very very strict gun laws and a very very high gun murder rate. Its not the guns its who has them that is the problem.

How strict are Illinois gun laws? Any law abiding citizen can own one....handgun within 72 hours, 48 for a shotgun? Conceal carry with permit?

the city of Chicago has its own laws which are much stricter than state laws. Its usually best to check into something before spouting like a fool.

Ass that idiot doesn't realize, Chicago did not allow registering g

I know its hard for you to follow, but try.

If individuals are made safer by more guns, and a neighborhood, or city, state, or country, is just a collection of individuals, which they are. Then why aren't these made safer by more guns?

You vitriol only hurts your position. You can't explain this because it doesn't fit your false view of reality.

Reality dictates, if guns make people safer, more guns would make more people safe.

But they don't.

guns in the hands of sane adults make the country safer. guns in the hands of criminals, thugs, and lunatics make the country more dangerous.

Chicago is the perfect example, very very strict gun laws and a very very high gun murder rate. Its not the guns its who has them that is the problem.

Problem is all the criminals, thugs, and lunatics pose as sane adults and the NRA blocks any effort to keep guns away from them

That is a bald faced lie. The NRA fully supports background checks and bans on ownership by felons or the mentally ill. The NRA also is against gun possession by criminals and illegal purchases of guns.

Do you ever tell the truth about anything?

The answer wold be no..........

 

[Care4all]

I know its hard for you to follow, but try.

If individuals are made safer by more guns, and a neighborhood, or city, state, or country, is just a collection of individuals, which they are. Then why aren't these made safer by more guns?

You vitriol only hurts your position. You can't explain this because it doesn't fit your false view of reality.

Reality dictates, if guns make people safer, more guns would make more people safe.

But they don't.

guns in the hands of sane adults make the country safer. guns in the hands of criminals, thugs, and lunatics make the country more dangerous.

Chicago is the perfect example, very very strict gun laws and a very very high gun murder rate. Its not the guns its who has them that is the problem.

How strict are Illinois gun laws? Any law abiding citizen can own one....handgun within 72 hours, 48 for a shotgun? Conceal carry with permit?

the city of Chicago has its own laws which are much stricter than state laws. Its usually best to check into something before spouting like a fool.

Since you are so knowledgeable on the subject, why don't you tell us 'fools' what they are....

and also, maybe you should inform yourself about the City of Chicago's Murder Rate being so outrageous due to these supposed gun laws there....

in 2012, the last year I could find on Murder Rates for big cities, Chicago ranked 21st.

yep, 20 other big cities in the USA had HIGHER murder Rates than Chicago.....

Despite recent shootings Chicago nowhere near U.S. murder capital Pew Research Center
so what precisely was your point in your first statement?

 

[rightwinger]

I know its hard for you to follow, but try.

If individuals are made safer by more guns, and a neighborhood, or city, state, or country, is just a collection of individuals, which they are. Then why aren't these made safer by more guns?

You vitriol only hurts your position. You can't explain this because it doesn't fit your false view of reality.

Reality dictates, if guns make people safer, more guns would make more people safe.

But they don't.

guns in the hands of sane adults make the country safer. guns in the hands of criminals, thugs, and lunatics make the country more dangerous.

Chicago is the perfect example, very very strict gun laws and a very very high gun murder rate. Its not the guns its who has them that is the problem.

Problem is all the criminals, thugs, and lunatics pose as sane adults and the NRA blocks any effort to keep guns away from them

That is a bald faced lie. The NRA fully supports background checks and bans on ownership by felons or the mentally ill. The NRA also is against gun possession by criminals and illegal purchases of guns.

Do you ever tell the truth about anything?

If that is true

Why do they block background checks for all gun sales? How do you block a felon or crazy from getting a gun if they can go to a gun show or private sale and get a gun without a background check?

The NRA is against gun possession by criminals but is unwilling to support any legislation that may identify them prior to the sale

 

[Care4all]

Does anyone know if most guns used in murder shootings are legally owned guns, or are they guns purchased illegally, off of the black market, so to say?

Shouldn't this proportion be identified before either side on the issue sticks their heels in on a position, and holds on for dear life???