Obama's wrong. Mass killings aren't uncommon in other countries

[paddymurphy]

Mother Jones is a hysterical site.....in every sense of the word.
While I agree that"gun free zones" may not be the motive behind the shootings, you'd have to be an idiot to think that bit of information wasn't a contributing factor in the decision making process

So, since you cannot prove that the data is wrong, you simply attack the source. Mass shootings are any with more than 4 deaths. The vast majority of those did not take place in gun free zones. In fact, most took place in homes and involved family members. Of those that did take place in places where guns were not allowed, you cannot produce any evidence whatsoever that the killer chose that place because guns were not supposed to be present. They targeted places where the victims they wanted to kill would be present. Many involved former employees going to their former place of employment and killing their bosses and co-workers. To suggest that the selected that location because is was gun free rather than because that is where the people the killer wanted to kill would be found is idiotic. The Columbine killers chose their high school because it was a gun free zone? Only a moron could think that.

Anytime Mother Jones is cited, I laugh. Sorry.
But you're right.
These places weren't chosen because they were gun free zones.
All I said was that had to be part of the thought process when planning on attacking these people.
If given a choice of killing someone at their house, where they may have guns, or at the workplace, where they can't carry.....which would they choose?

First, most mass killings did not take place in gun free zones. Second, many took place where there were armed guards and that made little difference. Third, you cannot produce any evidence indicating that any of the killers considered that the place they wanted to kill was a gun free zone. The fact of the matter is that given how few Americans who actually carry concealed weapons, despite the right to do so, most places are gun free zones, regardless of whether they are so by law.

The fact that there may be guns in the crowd seems irrelevant. Most of these shooters have death wishes anyway. They are prepared to die
Somebody shooting just adds to the drama

well if one of those church members had a gun, the death toll might have been less than 9 and the country might have been spared the millions that will be spent trying the racist asshole.

and, if the asshole had known that some of those church members were armed he might not have targeted them.

my what-if is a valid as yours.

Mine is based on evidence. Your was pulled out of your ass.

 

[paddymurphy]

Mother Jones is a hysterical site.....in every sense of the word.
While I agree that"gun free zones" may not be the motive behind the shootings, you'd have to be an idiot to think that bit of information wasn't a contributing factor in the decision making process

So, since you cannot prove that the data is wrong, you simply attack the source. Mass shootings are any with more than 4 deaths. The vast majority of those did not take place in gun free zones. In fact, most took place in homes and involved family members. Of those that did take place in places where guns were not allowed, you cannot produce any evidence whatsoever that the killer chose that place because guns were not supposed to be present. They targeted places where the victims they wanted to kill would be present. Many involved former employees going to their former place of employment and killing their bosses and co-workers. To suggest that the selected that location because is was gun free rather than because that is where the people the killer wanted to kill would be found is idiotic. The Columbine killers chose their high school because it was a gun free zone? Only a moron could think that.

Anytime Mother Jones is cited, I laugh. Sorry.
But you're right.
These places weren't chosen because they were gun free zones.
All I said was that had to be part of the thought process when planning on attacking these people.
If given a choice of killing someone at their house, where they may have guns, or at the workplace, where they can't carry.....which would they choose?

First, most mass killings did not take place in gun free zones. Second, many took place where there were armed guards and that made little difference. Third, you cannot produce any evidence indicating that any of the killers considered that the place they wanted to kill was a gun free zone. The fact of the matter is that given how few Americans who actually carry concealed weapons, despite the right to do so, most places are gun free zones, regardless of whether they are so by law.

Oh geeze louise get a grip. Anyone who's planning a mass murder is going to find a place of "least resistance".

How many mass murders take place at a gun show for crying out loud?

 

[Redfish]

Mother Jones is a hysterical site.....in every sense of the word.
While I agree that"gun free zones" may not be the motive behind the shootings, you'd have to be an idiot to think that bit of information wasn't a contributing factor in the decision making process

So, since you cannot prove that the data is wrong, you simply attack the source. Mass shootings are any with more than 4 deaths. The vast majority of those did not take place in gun free zones. In fact, most took place in homes and involved family members. Of those that did take place in places where guns were not allowed, you cannot produce any evidence whatsoever that the killer chose that place because guns were not supposed to be present. They targeted places where the victims they wanted to kill would be present. Many involved former employees going to their former place of employment and killing their bosses and co-workers. To suggest that the selected that location because is was gun free rather than because that is where the people the killer wanted to kill would be found is idiotic. The Columbine killers chose their high school because it was a gun free zone? Only a moron could think that.

Anytime Mother Jones is cited, I laugh. Sorry.
But you're right.
These places weren't chosen because they were gun free zones.
All I said was that had to be part of the thought process when planning on attacking these people.
If given a choice of killing someone at their house, where they may have guns, or at the workplace, where they can't carry.....which would they choose?

First, most mass killings did not take place in gun free zones. Second, many took place where there were armed guards and that made little difference. Third, you cannot produce any evidence indicating that any of the killers considered that the place they wanted to kill was a gun free zone. The fact of the matter is that given how few Americans who actually carry concealed weapons, despite the right to do so, most places are gun free zones, regardless of whether they are so by law.

Oh geeze louise get a grip. Anyone who's planning a mass murder is going to find a place of "least resistance".

How many mass murders take place at a gun show for crying out loud?

So, since you cannot prove that the data is wrong, you simply attack the source. Mass shootings are any with more than 4 deaths. The vast majority of those did not take place in gun free zones. In fact, most took place in homes and involved family members. Of those that did take place in places where guns were not allowed, you cannot produce any evidence whatsoever that the killer chose that place because guns were not supposed to be present. They targeted places where the victims they wanted to kill would be present. Many involved former employees going to their former place of employment and killing their bosses and co-workers. To suggest that the selected that location because is was gun free rather than because that is where the people the killer wanted to kill would be found is idiotic. The Columbine killers chose their high school because it was a gun free zone? Only a moron could think that.

Anytime Mother Jones is cited, I laugh. Sorry.
But you're right.
These places weren't chosen because they were gun free zones.
All I said was that had to be part of the thought process when planning on attacking these people.
If given a choice of killing someone at their house, where they may have guns, or at the workplace, where they can't carry.....which would they choose?

First, most mass killings did not take place in gun free zones. Second, many took place where there were armed guards and that made little difference. Third, you cannot produce any evidence indicating that any of the killers considered that the place they wanted to kill was a gun free zone. The fact of the matter is that given how few Americans who actually carry concealed weapons, despite the right to do so, most places are gun free zones, regardless of whether they are so by law.

The fact that there may be guns in the crowd seems irrelevant. Most of these shooters have death wishes anyway. They are prepared to die
Somebody shooting just adds to the drama

well if one of those church members had a gun, the death toll might have been less than 9 and the country might have been spared the millions that will be spent trying the racist asshole.

and, if the asshole had known that some of those church members were armed he might not have targeted them.

my what-if is a valid as yours.

Mine is based on evidence. Your was pulled out of your ass.

it is true that most mass murderers have a death wish. it is also true that an armed person could speed him to that end and possibly save lives in the process.

 

[IsaacNewton]

How utterly insecure do you have to be to need to claim, "everyone has many many mass killings like we do, we're all alike". In order to protect their only friend in the world, guns, conservatives have a bizarre need to claim the world is just like them regarding mass murder.

WTF!!

 

[hortysir]

How utterly insecure do you have to be to need to claim, "everyone has many many mass killings like we do, we're all alike". In order to protect their only friend in the world, guns, conservatives have a bizarre need to claim the world is just like them regarding mass murder.

WTF!!

Yea
Coz it's not like Honduras has a murder rate 21 times that of the US with 14 times fewer guns, or anything



wait

 

[tinydancer]

How utterly insecure do you have to be to need to claim, "everyone has many many mass killings like we do, we're all alike". In order to protect their only friend in the world, guns, conservatives have a bizarre need to claim the world is just like them regarding mass murder.

WTF!!

It's not insecurity. It's pointing out that the CIC is full of shit.

 

[IsaacNewton]

Sorry, you live in a world where this information is readily available to anyone.

What the president said is absolutely true.

 

[Dragonlady]

Tiny Dancer has such an irrational hatred of Obama that she will argue white is black rather than admit he was right about anything.

 

[LeftofLeft]

My head started to spin faster than Linda Blair's in the Exorcist when I read about Obama's claim. Sheesh. Either he's misinformed or that old liar is coming out in him again.

Here's his bullshit line:

"Once again, innocent people were killed in part because someone who wanted to inflict harm had no trouble getting their hands on a gun. … We as a country will have to reckon with the fact that this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries."

So he's fucked up in his memory or lying again. How the hell do you forget Charlie Hebdo so damn quick Mr. President?

That body count was 11. Including a policeman. Injured another 11.

And in support of that attack 5 Jews were slaughtered in France, 11 injured.

France is an advanced country is it not?

mmmmm' kay let's take a walk down memory lane and visit the worst shooting spree.

"In 2011, a deranged Anders Behring Breivik killed eight people by setting off a van bomb in Oslo, before going on to murder 69 more people, mostly children, at a summer camp.

This is the single worst shooting spree incident in history.

Obama surely remembers that he left the White House and visited the Norwegian ambassador’s residence to offer his condolences."

AND

"It takes only a rudimentary search to find out that mentally unstable killers can be found anywhere. In February of this year, nine people were killed in Czech Republic spree killing."

AND

"In Erfurt, Germany, a couple of years ago, an expelled student murdered 13 teachers, 2 students and a policeman. That same year, in the Serbian village of Velika Ivanča, a gunman shot and killed 14 people—many of them his own relatives— and a Russia gunman opened fire with a semi-automatic rifle killing six people. A couple of years before that, in England, a lone gunman killed 12 people and injured 11."

AND

"Advanced countries or developing ones, it’s the same thing. In 2013 a mentally unstable man in Rio de Janeiro killed 12 children and seriously wounded another 12. And you might remember that China had an outbreak of mass stabbings, hammer and cleaver attacks not long ago. You don’t need guns to kill people. One man stabbed 22 children by himself. Two attackers killed 29 people and injured 143 at Chinese railway station last year."

Actually President Obama Mass Killings Aren t Uncommon In Other Countries

Always comparing US to other countries

 

[tinydancer]

Sorry, you live in a world where this information is readily available to anyone.

What the president said is absolutely true.

You actually believe that Obama is right when he claims other countries don't have issues with mass murder?

 

[tinydancer]

Tiny Dancer has such an irrational hatred of Obama that she will argue white is black rather than admit he was right about anything.

Oh bite me. I just have no use for liars and Obama and his administration are positively pathological.

 

[Dragonlady]

Tiny Dancer has such an irrational hatred of Obama that she will argue white is black rather than admit he was right about anything.

Oh bite me. I just have no use for liars and Obama and his administration are positively pathological.

If you have no use for liars, you must hate yourself a lot

 

[IsaacNewton]

Sorry, you live in a world where this information is readily available to anyone.

What the president said is absolutely true.

You actually believe that Obama is right when he claims other countries don't have issues with mass murder?

.... hello McFly !! That isn't what he said. He commented that the frequency of these events is far greater in the U.S. which is absolutely true.

 

[rightwinger]

Sorry, you live in a world where this information is readily available to anyone.

What the president said is absolutely true.

You actually believe that Obama is right when he claims other countries don't have issues with mass murder?

Other countries have single cases of mass murder to deal with

The US has over a hundred

 

[1stRambo]

Yo,

"GTP"

 

[2aguy]

Oh for goodness sakes!

He did not lie, even if you use Jroc's chart that he posted from Judicial review, a very very partisan and skewed right wing site, who said they got the chart from another site that is now defunct.... even compared to populations of all the other countries combine in the EU, it shows specifically that these kind of incidents (mass murder incidents) occurs more frequently in the USA, THAN these other Westernized countries.

PERIOD.

"We do know that once again, innocent people were killed in part because someone who wanted to inflict harm had no trouble getting their hands on a gun," Obama said at the White House. "At some point, we as a country will have to reckon with the fact that this kind of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries. It doesn't happen in other places with this kind of frequency. It is in our power to do something about it."

This is the truth......


The size of the trio’s armory has prompted an urgent inquiry into the scale of gun smuggling in Europe, where weapons are smuggled into the European Union from the countries of former Yugoslavia, Albania and elsewhere and then moved without any further border checks to where they will get the best price. Most of the smuggling is carried out by criminal gangs but many jihadists such as Coulibaly are well connected with criminal networks.

Despite the Paris attacks, it seems the weapons are still flowing freely through Europe. Brian Donald, chief of staff for Europol, which coordinates cross-border actions among police forces in the E.U.’s 28 countries, says there have been two “large seizures” of assault weapons in Europe during the past two weeks, but would not give details about where they were, since the investigations were still ongoing. In all, he says police had seized “several vanloads of 30 or 40 weapons at a time,” during the past few weeks, including “AK-47s, Scorpions, handguns and semiautomatic rifles.”

The Kouachis had rifles and a rocket-propelled grenade launcher. On Jan. 8, Coulibaly fatally shot a policewoman with a Scorpion submachine gun in the Paris suburb of Montrouge. The day after that, he used a 7.62-mm Tokarev rifle, a Soviet-designed weapon, to kill five hostages in a kosher supermarket in eastern Paris. His posthumous video also showed him with a Kalashnikov AK-47. Earlier this month, a Belgian newspaper reportedthat Coulibaly had bought most of the weapons from a Belgian criminal for €5,000 (about $5,647). Coulibaly, a French-born Muslim with Malian parents, made the deal near the Brussels Midi train station, a major railway hub that connects Western Europe’s biggest cities, after taking out a €6,000 loan from the French financial services firm Cofidis using false information about his income, which went unchecked.

But although the police quickly traced the weapons source in the Paris attacks, stopping criminals and other jihadist cells in Europe from acquiring assault weapons for further attacks might not be so easy, according to police officials.

Many of the weapons circulating in Europe hail from southeastern Europe, where big military arsenals were left abandoned during the collapse of Yugoslavia and the Balkan wars of the 1990s. At least a million other weapons are believed to have been looted during an outbreak of anarchy in Albania in 1997. “There are stockpiles in the Balkans of 2 [million] to 3 million [weapons] left over from the 1990s, available for recycling,” says Donald.

French police believe rifles are on sale in French cities for between €1,000 and €1,500. Earlier this month, Philippe Capon, head of the French police union UNSA, told Bloomberg News, “The French black market for weapons has been inundated with eastern European war artillery and arms.” A French police source told TIME that the weapons from the Charlie Hebdoattack came from the Balkans.

That is not the only source of weaponry. Donald says he fears that the continent might be facing a fresh influx of weapons from North Africa in the wake of the Arab Spring revolts. In August, 2011, Libyan rebels looted large quantities of mortars, tank shells and other munitions when Moammar Gaddafi’s regime collapsed. Although most of those weapons are believed to have filtered across North and West Africa, some could also have made their way to Europe.

The arms traffickers have flourished in the absence of well-financed antiweapons units in Europe, where law enforcement has for years tended to plow money into stopping drug-dealing and other crimes. “We don’t fully understand the scale of the problem because we have not had specialized units,” says Donald, referring to law-enforcement agencies in different E.U. countries. “It is a question of priorities. Any police officer will tell you it [resources] is a constant struggle.”

The trade in illegal weapons can earn enormous profits for organized criminal gangs — enough to make the risk of capture worthwhile. Donald says recent investigations have found arms traffickers investing about €30,000 in a shipment of Balkan-era weapons, refurbishing them in their garages, then selling them for them for about 10 times the price. “That’s a huge mark-up,” he says.

As Europe struggles to crack down on illegal weapons, some police recruits face a new training exercise: Go buy a Kalashnikov rifle. Donald says that in “a city in Europe,” which he would not name, “very young officers with no training or experience” were recently told to go find an assault weapon on the streets from an illegal arms dealer. “One came back two hours later with an AK-47,” Donald says. “He bought it for €1,000.”

17

I agree that this post and your other posts regarding this topic of legal and illegal gun traffic is pertinent in the debate on this issue....and should be examined and analyzed along with the other information on gun controls and resulting effects....

But the article from the op, indicating that Obama lied in what he said, is the op article's LIE.

And this thread was started and commented on and charts posted and so on and so forth, are all based ON THIS LIE, via omission of Obama's initial statement in FULL and in context.....and was PURPOSELY worded this way and edited this way by the Right Wing Media, to CAUSE and CREATE, CONTROVERSY themselves.

left wing politic act said he was wrong....

 

[2aguy]

Really?

Might wish to rethink your entire outrage that someone insulted Obama.

yes, really....

Even on this chart, it SHOWS that these type of incidences, (mass murder shooting incidences) DO NOT occur in other westernized nations as frequently as they do in the USA....even if you add up all of the people in the EU countries shown as a population equalizer with the USA population...there are more mass shootings occurrences in the USA than the EU....

You need to reread the chart.

You also need to make note of the fact that of the 12 nations listed (all of them first world nations) 10 of the 12 are very restrictive in gun laws, particularly the top 5.

The USA has no more frequency in gun mass killing than other first world nations, it has no more violence than in other nations.

Mr. Obama misspoke, was ill informed, or outright lied. All for a political purpose.

Darkwind, the chart say specifically that the USA had 38 incidents (mass murder shooting occurrences) and during the same limited years, all the other countries on the chart, including countries that do not truly belong there, like Israel...they ALL ADD UP TO 17 mass shooting incidences....

Usa-38
all other nations on chart-17

So where is the lie? Where?

Please point out where this chart shows that Obama lied about how many mass shootings occurrences/incidences we have compared to these other nations on the chart....

It is dishonest because you are not considering the population differences between the countries. Which is why they use the fatalities per 1,000,000 metric. It is a much more accurate rating....

You'll note that the USA is at .72.

Obama mentioned incidences of Mass Murder Shootings, not the number of people killed...and when you look at the chart posted on this very limited time period, it SHOWS that there are 304.1 million people in all of these other Nations combined together on the chart and 314.0 million in the USA, which is nearly equal in populations, we had 38 mass murder shootings, and ALL of these other nations combined had 17....and like said, the populations comparing the 2 are the same or near the same.

Can't get much more accurate of a rating/reading, than THAT....

38 HERE, 17 THERE.
virtually same amount of people....

EDIT ADDITION:

38/314M = 0.12
17/304M = 0.05

USA WINS, BIGTIME

More than DOUBLE the number of Mass Murder Incidences PER PERSON than all of the Nations on the chart PER PERSON

mass shootings in Europe kill more people because the police are often unarmed....as in Norway, he site of the worst mass shooting in history.....and in South Korea where the citizens are also and the site of the 2nd worst mass shooting in history...and Charlie Hebdo where the first police on the scene were unarmed and shot.......

and that they don't do more mass shooting has nothing to do with guns since the criminals in Europe have easy access to guns.....while their peaceful law, law abiding citizens do not.....now that they are importing immigrants from countries that are more violent than European countries, their violent crime and gun violence Rates will be spiking shortly...just wait...and their citizens will be helpless to protect themselves..


especially in Britain where the police warn victims not to harm the violent criminals who attack them....

 

[2aguy]

WHY do these RIGHT WING RAGS have to manipulate the TRUTH in order to CREATE CONTROVERSY?

Shame on you and them tiny....

WHY CUT OFF OBAMA'S QUOTE AND WHAT HE REALLY SAID?

Why?
You have CREATED AND MANUFACTURED the controversy on what he said, can't you see that?

"We do know that once again, innocent people were killed in part because someone who wanted to inflict harm had no trouble getting their hands on a gun," Obama said at the White House. "At some point, we as a country will have to reckon with the fact that this kind of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries. It doesn't happen in other places with this kind of frequency. It is in our power to do something about it."

SHAME on you! Honestly, you should be more careful in what these right wing media outlets say and check them for accuracy before you regurgitate their made up LIES.

Really?

If You Look at This Chart of Top 10 Nations in the World for Mass Shootings One Thing Jumps Out

Might wish to rethink your entire outrage that someone insulted Obama.

yes, really....

Even on this chart, it SHOWS that these type of incidences, (mass murder shooting incidences) DO NOT occur in other westernized nations as frequently as they do in the USA....even if you add up all of the people in the EU countries shown as a population equalizer with the USA population...there are more mass shootings occurrences in the USA than the EU....

You need to reread the chart.

You also need to make note of the fact that of the 12 nations listed (all of them first world nations) 10 of the 12 are very restrictive in gun laws, particularly the top 5.

The USA has no more frequency in gun mass killing than other first world nations, it has no more violence than in other nations.

Mr. Obama misspoke, was ill informed, or outright lied. All for a political purpose.

Darkwind, the chart say specifically that the USA had 38 incidents (mass murder shooting occurrences) and during the same limited years, all the other countries on the chart, including countries that do not truly belong there, like Israel...they ALL ADD UP TO 17 mass shooting incidences....

Usa-38
all other nations on chart-17

So where is the lie? Where?

Please point out where this chart shows that Obama lied about how many mass shootings occurrences/incidences we have compared to these other nations on the chart....

It is dishonest because you are not considering the population differences between the countries. Which is why they use the fatalities per 1,000,000 metric. It is a much more accurate rating....

You'll note that the USA is at .72.

As I say and other 2nd Amendment supporters point out....the anti gun extremists have to lie because the numbers don't support their beliefs...neither does the truth or reality...that is why you can never, ever trust their research...they lie....all the time..

 

[rightwinger]

yes, really....

Even on this chart, it SHOWS that these type of incidences, (mass murder shooting incidences) DO NOT occur in other westernized nations as frequently as they do in the USA....even if you add up all of the people in the EU countries shown as a population equalizer with the USA population...there are more mass shootings occurrences in the USA than the EU....

You need to reread the chart.

You also need to make note of the fact that of the 12 nations listed (all of them first world nations) 10 of the 12 are very restrictive in gun laws, particularly the top 5.

The USA has no more frequency in gun mass killing than other first world nations, it has no more violence than in other nations.

Mr. Obama misspoke, was ill informed, or outright lied. All for a political purpose.

Darkwind, the chart say specifically that the USA had 38 incidents (mass murder shooting occurrences) and during the same limited years, all the other countries on the chart, including countries that do not truly belong there, like Israel...they ALL ADD UP TO 17 mass shooting incidences....

Usa-38
all other nations on chart-17

So where is the lie? Where?

Please point out where this chart shows that Obama lied about how many mass shootings occurrences/incidences we have compared to these other nations on the chart....

It is dishonest because you are not considering the population differences between the countries. Which is why they use the fatalities per 1,000,000 metric. It is a much more accurate rating....

You'll note that the USA is at .72.

Obama mentioned incidences of Mass Murder Shootings, not the number of people killed...and when you look at the chart posted on this very limited time period, it SHOWS that there are 304.1 million people in all of these other Nations combined together on the chart and 314.0 million in the USA, which is nearly equal in populations, we had 38 mass murder shootings, and ALL of these other nations combined had 17....and like said, the populations comparing the 2 are the same or near the same.

Can't get much more accurate of a rating/reading, than THAT....

38 HERE, 17 THERE.
virtually same amount of people....

EDIT ADDITION:

38/314M = 0.12
17/304M = 0.05

USA WINS, BIGTIME

More than DOUBLE the number of Mass Murder Incidences PER PERSON than all of the Nations on the chart PER PERSON

mass shootings in Europe kill more people because the police are often unarmed....as in Norway, he site of the worst mass shooting in history.....and in South Korea where the citizens are also and the site of the 2nd worst mass shooting in history...and Charlie Hebdo where the first police on the scene were unarmed and shot.......

and that they don't do more mass shooting has nothing to do with guns since the criminals in Europe have easy access to guns.....while their peaceful law, law abiding citizens do not.....now that they are importing immigrants from countries that are more violent than European countries, their violent crime and gun violence Rates will be spiking shortly...just wait...and their citizens will be helpless to protect themselves..


especially in Britain where the police warn victims not to harm the violent criminals who attack them....

Total bullshit

Show where mass killings in Europe kill more than the US

 

[tinydancer]

Tiny Dancer has such an irrational hatred of Obama that she will argue white is black rather than admit he was right about anything.

Oh bite me. I just have no use for liars and Obama and his administration are positively pathological.

If you have no use for liars, you must hate yourself a lot

Obviously your enema was not successful today because you really are full of shit.

Go for it. Put up all my lies douche bag.