Obama's wrong. Mass killings aren't uncommon in other countries

[2aguy]

politifact says we are number 3...that is not number 1 is it?

You need to reread the chart.

You also need to make note of the fact that of the 12 nations listed (all of them first world nations) 10 of the 12 are very restrictive in gun laws, particularly the top 5.

The USA has no more frequency in gun mass killing than other first world nations, it has no more violence than in other nations.

Mr. Obama misspoke, was ill informed, or outright lied. All for a political purpose.

Darkwind, the chart say specifically that the USA had 38 incidents (mass murder shooting occurrences) and during the same limited years, all the other countries on the chart, including countries that do not truly belong there, like Israel...they ALL ADD UP TO 17 mass shooting incidences....

Usa-38
all other nations on chart-17

So where is the lie? Where?

Please point out where this chart shows that Obama lied about how many mass shootings occurrences/incidences we have compared to these other nations on the chart....

It is dishonest because you are not considering the population differences between the countries. Which is why they use the fatalities per 1,000,000 metric. It is a much more accurate rating....

You'll note that the USA is at .72.

Obama mentioned incidences of Mass Murder Shootings, not the number of people killed...and when you look at the chart posted on this very limited time period, it SHOWS that there are 304.1 million people in all of these other Nations combined together on the chart and 314.0 million in the USA, which is nearly equal in populations, we had 38 mass murder shootings, and ALL of these other nations combined had 17....and like said, the populations comparing the 2 are the same or near the same.

Can't get much more accurate of a rating/reading, than THAT....

38 HERE, 17 THERE.
virtually same amount of people....

EDIT ADDITION:

38/314M = 0.12
17/304M = 0.05

USA WINS, BIGTIME

More than DOUBLE the number of Mass Murder Incidences PER PERSON than all of the Nations on the chart PER PERSON

mass shootings in Europe kill more people because the police are often unarmed....as in Norway, he site of the worst mass shooting in history.....and in South Korea where the citizens are also and the site of the 2nd worst mass shooting in history...and Charlie Hebdo where the first police on the scene were unarmed and shot.......

and that they don't do more mass shooting has nothing to do with guns since the criminals in Europe have easy access to guns.....while their peaceful law, law abiding citizens do not.....now that they are importing immigrants from countries that are more violent than European countries, their violent crime and gun violence Rates will be spiking shortly...just wait...and their citizens will be helpless to protect themselves..


especially in Britain where the police warn victims not to harm the violent criminals who attack them....

Total bullshit

Show where mass killings in Europe kill more than the US

 

[2aguy]

You need to reread the chart.

You also need to make note of the fact that of the 12 nations listed (all of them first world nations) 10 of the 12 are very restrictive in gun laws, particularly the top 5.

The USA has no more frequency in gun mass killing than other first world nations, it has no more violence than in other nations.

Mr. Obama misspoke, was ill informed, or outright lied. All for a political purpose.

Darkwind, the chart say specifically that the USA had 38 incidents (mass murder shooting occurrences) and during the same limited years, all the other countries on the chart, including countries that do not truly belong there, like Israel...they ALL ADD UP TO 17 mass shooting incidences....

Usa-38
all other nations on chart-17

So where is the lie? Where?

Please point out where this chart shows that Obama lied about how many mass shootings occurrences/incidences we have compared to these other nations on the chart....

It is dishonest because you are not considering the population differences between the countries. Which is why they use the fatalities per 1,000,000 metric. It is a much more accurate rating....

You'll note that the USA is at .72.

Obama mentioned incidences of Mass Murder Shootings, not the number of people killed...and when you look at the chart posted on this very limited time period, it SHOWS that there are 304.1 million people in all of these other Nations combined together on the chart and 314.0 million in the USA, which is nearly equal in populations, we had 38 mass murder shootings, and ALL of these other nations combined had 17....and like said, the populations comparing the 2 are the same or near the same.

Can't get much more accurate of a rating/reading, than THAT....

38 HERE, 17 THERE.
virtually same amount of people....

EDIT ADDITION:

38/314M = 0.12
17/304M = 0.05

USA WINS, BIGTIME

More than DOUBLE the number of Mass Murder Incidences PER PERSON than all of the Nations on the chart PER PERSON

mass shootings in Europe kill more people because the police are often unarmed....as in Norway, he site of the worst mass shooting in history.....and in South Korea where the citizens are also and the site of the 2nd worst mass shooting in history...and Charlie Hebdo where the first police on the scene were unarmed and shot.......

and that they don't do more mass shooting has nothing to do with guns since the criminals in Europe have easy access to guns.....while their peaceful law, law abiding citizens do not.....now that they are importing immigrants from countries that are more violent than European countries, their violent crime and gun violence Rates will be spiking shortly...just wait...and their citizens will be helpless to protect themselves..


especially in Britain where the police warn victims not to harm the violent criminals who attack them....

Total bullshit

Show where mass killings in Europe kill more than the US

here you go....

Lefty politifact disagrees with obama in his statement....

Serial Lies PolitiFact Blasts Obama Over Gun Claim About Mass Killings In Other Countries - Breitbart

And from the link to politifact....

Is Barack Obama correct that mass killings don t happen in other countries PolitiFact

Still, using this data, it’s easy to dispense with the first claim Obama made -- that "this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries."


Over the decade and a half studied, the researchers found 23 incidents of mass shootings in the other 10 countries, resulting in 200 dead and 231 wounded. In the United States over the same period, there were 133 incidents that left 487 dead and 505 wounded.


***********************

Still, the U.S. doesn’t rank No. 1. At 0.15 mass shooting fatalities per 100,000 people, the U.S. had a lower rate than Norway (1.3 per 100,000), Finland (0.34 per 100,000) and Switzerland (1.7 per 100,000).

We’ll note that all of these countries had one or two particularly big attacks and have relatively small populations, which have pushed up their per-capita rates. In Norway, that single attack in 2011 left 67 dead by gunfire (plus additional bomb casualties). Finland had two attacks, one that killed eight and one that killed 10. And Switzerland had one incident that killed 14.

Still, while the United States did rank in the top one-third of the list, the fact that three other countries exceeded the United States using the fairest method of comparison available does weaken Obama’s claim that "it doesn’t happen in other places with this kind of frequency." In at least three countries, the data shows, it does.

 

[tinydancer]

Sorry, you live in a world where this information is readily available to anyone.

What the president said is absolutely true.

You actually believe that Obama is right when he claims other countries don't have issues with mass murder?

Other countries have single cases of mass murder to deal with

The US has over a hundred

Actually with the bar being lowered to four dead as considered a "mass murder" these days in the US, I'd like to spend some time going thru the data with this low count for foreign countries.

With the bar being lowered to four, this would now include so many family murder/suicides that I would never have included in what I consider "mass murder".

Now just south of the border in Mexico, you do have mass murders on an astoundingly frequent basis.Considering Mexico's tough gun laws, it shows something isn't working mmmm'kay?

Hell's bells they had an extraordinarily gruesome one just last year with the 43 college students that were massacred on the order of the Mayor and his wife.

 

[rightwinger]

politifact says we are number 3...that is not number 1 is it?

Darkwind, the chart say specifically that the USA had 38 incidents (mass murder shooting occurrences) and during the same limited years, all the other countries on the chart, including countries that do not truly belong there, like Israel...they ALL ADD UP TO 17 mass shooting incidences....

Usa-38
all other nations on chart-17

So where is the lie? Where?

Please point out where this chart shows that Obama lied about how many mass shootings occurrences/incidences we have compared to these other nations on the chart....

It is dishonest because you are not considering the population differences between the countries. Which is why they use the fatalities per 1,000,000 metric. It is a much more accurate rating....

You'll note that the USA is at .72.

Obama mentioned incidences of Mass Murder Shootings, not the number of people killed...and when you look at the chart posted on this very limited time period, it SHOWS that there are 304.1 million people in all of these other Nations combined together on the chart and 314.0 million in the USA, which is nearly equal in populations, we had 38 mass murder shootings, and ALL of these other nations combined had 17....and like said, the populations comparing the 2 are the same or near the same.

Can't get much more accurate of a rating/reading, than THAT....

38 HERE, 17 THERE.
virtually same amount of people....

EDIT ADDITION:

38/314M = 0.12
17/304M = 0.05

USA WINS, BIGTIME

More than DOUBLE the number of Mass Murder Incidences PER PERSON than all of the Nations on the chart PER PERSON

mass shootings in Europe kill more people because the police are often unarmed....as in Norway, he site of the worst mass shooting in history.....and in South Korea where the citizens are also and the site of the 2nd worst mass shooting in history...and Charlie Hebdo where the first police on the scene were unarmed and shot.......

and that they don't do more mass shooting has nothing to do with guns since the criminals in Europe have easy access to guns.....while their peaceful law, law abiding citizens do not.....now that they are importing immigrants from countries that are more violent than European countries, their violent crime and gun violence Rates will be spiking shortly...just wait...and their citizens will be helpless to protect themselves..


especially in Britain where the police warn victims not to harm the violent criminals who attack them....

Total bullshit

Show where mass killings in Europe kill more than the US

Post your stats and let's go

Norway number one?

 

[rightwinger]

Sorry, you live in a world where this information is readily available to anyone.

What the president said is absolutely true.

You actually believe that Obama is right when he claims other countries don't have issues with mass murder?

Other countries have single cases of mass murder to deal with

The US has over a hundred

Actually with the bar being lowered to four dead as considered a "mass murder" these days in the US, I'd like to spend some time going thru the data with this low count for foreign countries.

With the bar being lowered to four, this would now include so many family murder/suicides that I would never have included in what I consider "mass murder".

Now just south of the border in Mexico, you do have mass murders on an astoundingly frequent basis.Considering Mexico's tough gun laws, it shows something isn't working mmmm'kay?

Hell's bells they had an extraordinarily gruesome one just last year with the 43 college students that were massacred on the order of the Mayor and his wife.

Four is acceptable to you?

What's your limit....twenty?

 

[tinydancer]

Does anyone else find this hysterically funny?



"Various officials in the Mexican government have urged that American gun laws be made more like Mexico’s, and President Obama at various times in his career has endorsed several proposals which would make American gun laws much more like Mexican ones.

These proposals including banning almost all gun stores, universal gun registration, elimination of the right to bear arms, and the prohibition of many common firearms."

Mexico s gun control laws A model for the United States - The Washington Post

Mexico’s gun control laws: A model for the United States?

 

[rightwinger]

Does anyone else find this hysterically funny?



"Various officials in the Mexican government have urged that American gun laws be made more like Mexico’s, and President Obama at various times in his career has endorsed several proposals which would make American gun laws much more like Mexican ones.

These proposals including banning almost all gun stores, universal gun registration, elimination of the right to bear arms, and the prohibition of many common firearms."

Mexico s gun control laws A model for the United States - The Washington Post

Mexico’s gun control laws: A model for the United States?

The US gets its drugs from Mexico
Mexico gets its guns from the US

The drug trade is driving the gun violence in Mexico

 

[2aguy]

Does anyone else find this hysterically funny?



"Various officials in the Mexican government have urged that American gun laws be made more like Mexico’s, and President Obama at various times in his career has endorsed several proposals which would make American gun laws much more like Mexican ones.

These proposals including banning almost all gun stores, universal gun registration, elimination of the right to bear arms, and the prohibition of many common firearms."

Mexico s gun control laws A model for the United States - The Washington Post

Mexico’s gun control laws: A model for the United States?

The US gets its drugs from Mexico
Mexico gets its guns from the US

The drug trade is driving the gun violence in Mexico

Actually no.....Mexico gets the bulk of it's illegal guns from Europe and China.......

 

[tinydancer]

Sorry, you live in a world where this information is readily available to anyone.

What the president said is absolutely true.

You actually believe that Obama is right when he claims other countries don't have issues with mass murder?

Other countries have single cases of mass murder to deal with

The US has over a hundred

Actually with the bar being lowered to four dead as considered a "mass murder" these days in the US, I'd like to spend some time going thru the data with this low count for foreign countries.

With the bar being lowered to four, this would now include so many family murder/suicides that I would never have included in what I consider "mass murder".

Now just south of the border in Mexico, you do have mass murders on an astoundingly frequent basis.Considering Mexico's tough gun laws, it shows something isn't working mmmm'kay?

Hell's bells they had an extraordinarily gruesome one just last year with the 43 college students that were massacred on the order of the Mayor and his wife.

Four is acceptable to you?

What's your limit....twenty?

One death is one death too many. Come on.

I had always believed that a mass murder (different from a spree killing) was six and up and the murders were not family based.

It appears this is not the case so even Andrea Yates who killed her children would be considered a mass murderer now. Mass murder by drowning.

This really opens up a very wide field then.

 

[2aguy]

Does anyone else find this hysterically funny?



"Various officials in the Mexican government have urged that American gun laws be made more like Mexico’s, and President Obama at various times in his career has endorsed several proposals which would make American gun laws much more like Mexican ones.

These proposals including banning almost all gun stores, universal gun registration, elimination of the right to bear arms, and the prohibition of many common firearms."

Mexico s gun control laws A model for the United States - The Washington Post

Mexico’s gun control laws: A model for the United States?

The US gets its drugs from Mexico
Mexico gets its guns from the US

The drug trade is driving the gun violence in Mexico

The drug trade is driving the gun violence in Mexico

Do you realize how silly you anti gun extremists sound.....you have said that extreme gun control will stop gun violence...and Mexico has extreme gun control....

banning almost all gun stores, universal gun registration, elimination of the right to bear arms, and the prohibition of many common firearms."

You guys lecture us that doing this will stop gun violence and murder in general....you all say it, all the time and get real fucking preachy about it at the same time......and yet......they have higher gun murder rates than we do...

And you guys tell us that isn't possible...because no matter how big a shit hole the country is....you promise us that if they have extreme gun control laws there will be little to no gun murder or violence....right?

So explain why you are wrong...again...........

These 3rd World crap holes should be peaceful because of their extreme anti gun laws...right?

 

[2aguy]

politifact says we are number 3...that is not number 1 is it?

It is dishonest because you are not considering the population differences between the countries. Which is why they use the fatalities per 1,000,000 metric. It is a much more accurate rating....

You'll note that the USA is at .72.

Obama mentioned incidences of Mass Murder Shootings, not the number of people killed...and when you look at the chart posted on this very limited time period, it SHOWS that there are 304.1 million people in all of these other Nations combined together on the chart and 314.0 million in the USA, which is nearly equal in populations, we had 38 mass murder shootings, and ALL of these other nations combined had 17....and like said, the populations comparing the 2 are the same or near the same.

Can't get much more accurate of a rating/reading, than THAT....

38 HERE, 17 THERE.
virtually same amount of people....

EDIT ADDITION:

38/314M = 0.12
17/304M = 0.05

USA WINS, BIGTIME

More than DOUBLE the number of Mass Murder Incidences PER PERSON than all of the Nations on the chart PER PERSON

mass shootings in Europe kill more people because the police are often unarmed....as in Norway, he site of the worst mass shooting in history.....and in South Korea where the citizens are also and the site of the 2nd worst mass shooting in history...and Charlie Hebdo where the first police on the scene were unarmed and shot.......

and that they don't do more mass shooting has nothing to do with guns since the criminals in Europe have easy access to guns.....while their peaceful law, law abiding citizens do not.....now that they are importing immigrants from countries that are more violent than European countries, their violent crime and gun violence Rates will be spiking shortly...just wait...and their citizens will be helpless to protect themselves..


especially in Britain where the police warn victims not to harm the violent criminals who attack them....

Total bullshit

Show where mass killings in Europe kill more than the US

Post your stats and let's go

Norway number one?

Bitch to left wing Politifact...they said it not me.....I just enjoy reporting what they said.......makes you anti gun extremists all pissy....

 

[tinydancer]

Does anyone else find this hysterically funny?



"Various officials in the Mexican government have urged that American gun laws be made more like Mexico’s, and President Obama at various times in his career has endorsed several proposals which would make American gun laws much more like Mexican ones.

These proposals including banning almost all gun stores, universal gun registration, elimination of the right to bear arms, and the prohibition of many common firearms."

Mexico s gun control laws A model for the United States - The Washington Post

Mexico’s gun control laws: A model for the United States?

The US gets its drugs from Mexico
Mexico gets its guns from the US

The drug trade is driving the gun violence in Mexico

The statistics that have 90 percent of Mexican weapons coming from the US is bullshit.

I'll get the link. It's the grand ca ca. They skewered the statistics so wildly it made me want to bazooka barf.

 

[IsaacNewton]

If guns make us safer, then 300 million guns in the U.S. should make us the safest nation in history.

The opposite is the case.

 

[rightwinger]

Does anyone else find this hysterically funny?



"Various officials in the Mexican government have urged that American gun laws be made more like Mexico’s, and President Obama at various times in his career has endorsed several proposals which would make American gun laws much more like Mexican ones.

These proposals including banning almost all gun stores, universal gun registration, elimination of the right to bear arms, and the prohibition of many common firearms."

Mexico s gun control laws A model for the United States - The Washington Post

Mexico’s gun control laws: A model for the United States?

The US gets its drugs from Mexico
Mexico gets its guns from the US

The drug trade is driving the gun violence in Mexico

Actually no.....Mexico gets the bulk of it's illegal guns from Europe and China.......

70% of the guns in Mexico come from the US

Smuggling of firearms into Mexico - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[2aguy]

If guns make us safer, then 300 million guns in the U.S. should make us the safest nation in history.

The opposite is the case.

Yeah...I don't remember the death camps that killed 12 million Europeans here in the U.S.....and again, Americans use guns to stop 2 million violent criminal attacks a year on average...

2,000,000 violent crimes prevented and lives saved

2013...accidental gun deaths....505

2013...gun murders per the FBI table 8.....8,454

You do the math...which number is bigger....

 

[2aguy]

Does anyone else find this hysterically funny?



"Various officials in the Mexican government have urged that American gun laws be made more like Mexico’s, and President Obama at various times in his career has endorsed several proposals which would make American gun laws much more like Mexican ones.

These proposals including banning almost all gun stores, universal gun registration, elimination of the right to bear arms, and the prohibition of many common firearms."

Mexico s gun control laws A model for the United States - The Washington Post

Mexico’s gun control laws: A model for the United States?

The US gets its drugs from Mexico
Mexico gets its guns from the US

The drug trade is driving the gun violence in Mexico

Actually no.....Mexico gets the bulk of it's illegal guns from Europe and China.......

70% of the guns in Mexico come from the US

Smuggling of firearms into Mexico - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Sorry, not true....you made the classic mistake of believing anti gun extremists.......they lie.....

First, the lie....


Mexico s Gun Supply and the 90 Percent Myth Stratfor

According to the GAO report, some 30,000 firearms were seized from criminals by Mexican authorities in 2008. Of these 30,000 firearms, information pertaining to 7,200 of them (24 percent) was submitted to the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) for tracing. Of these 7,200 guns, only about 4,000 could be traced by the ATF, and of these 4,000, some 3,480 (87 percent) were shown to have come from the United States.

This means that the 87 percent figure relates to the number of weapons submitted by the Mexican government to the ATF that could be successfully traced and not from the total number of weapons seized by Mexican authorities or even from the total number of weapons submitted to the ATF for tracing.

In fact, the 3,480 guns positively traced to the United States equals less than 12 percent of the total arms seized in Mexico in 2008 and less than 48 percent of all those submitted by the Mexican government to the ATF for tracing.


This means that almost 90 percent of the guns seized in Mexico in 2008 were not traced back to the United States.

The remaining 22,800 firearms seized by Mexican authorities in 2008 were not traced for a variety of reasons. In addition to factors such as bureaucratic barriers and negligence, many of the weapons seized by Mexican authorities either do not bear serial numbers or have had their serial numbers altered or obliterated. It is also important to understand that the Mexican authorities simply don't bother to submit some classes of weapons to the ATF for tracing. Such weapons include firearms they identify as coming from their own military or police forces, or guns that they can trace back themselves as being sold through the Mexican Defense Department's Arms and Ammunition Marketing Division (UCAM). Likewise, they do not ask ATF to trace military ordnance from third countries like the South Korean fragmentation grenades commonly used in cartel attacks.



http://www.frontpagemag.com/2011/ryan-mauro/where-drug-cartels-really-get-their-arms/2/

 

[rightwinger]

If guns make us safer, then 300 million guns in the U.S. should make us the safest nation in history.

The opposite is the case.

Yeah...I don't remember the death camps that killed 12 million Europeans here in the U.S.....and again, Americans use guns to stop 2 million violent criminal attacks a year on average...

2,000,000 violent crimes prevented and lives saved

2013...accidental gun deaths....505

2013...gun murders per the FBI table 8.....8,454

You do the math...which number is bigger....

You keep posting bogus numbers.......nobody is buying your 2 million number

It is ridiculous fantasy

 

[2aguy]

If guns make us safer, then 300 million guns in the U.S. should make us the safest nation in history.

The opposite is the case.

Yeah...I don't remember the death camps that killed 12 million Europeans here in the U.S.....and again, Americans use guns to stop 2 million violent criminal attacks a year on average...

2,000,000 violent crimes prevented and lives saved

2013...accidental gun deaths....505

2013...gun murders per the FBI table 8.....8,454

You do the math...which number is bigger....

You keep posting bogus numbers.......nobody is buying your 2 million number

It is ridiculous fantasy

You keep posting bogus numbers.......nobody is buying your 2 million number

It is ridiculous fantasy

You are wrong...it is actual research by economists and criminologists conducted over 40 years.....

These studies are not fantasies.......

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

 

[2aguy]

And more on the military weapons the drug cartels get ....

This third type of weapon is fairly difficult and very expensive to obtain in the United States, especially in the large numbers in which the cartels are employing them. They are also dangerous to obtain in the United States due to heavy law enforcement scrutiny. Therefore, most of the military ordnance used by the Mexican cartels comes from other sources, such as the international arms market — increasingly from China via the same networks that furnish precursor chemicals for narcotics manufacturing — or from corrupt elements in the Mexican military or even deserters who take their weapons with them. Besides, items such as South Korean fragmentation grenades and RPG-7s, often used by the cartels, simply are not in the U.S. arsenal.


This means that very few of the weapons in this category come from the United States.

 

[IsaacNewton]

If guns make us safer, then 300 million guns in the U.S. should make us the safest nation in history.

The opposite is the case.

Yeah...I don't remember the death camps that killed 12 million Europeans here in the U.S.....and again, Americans use guns to stop 2 million violent criminal attacks a year on average...

2,000,000 violent crimes prevented and lives saved

2013...accidental gun deaths....505

2013...gun murders per the FBI table 8.....8,454

You do the math...which number is bigger....

You dodge the question, no surprise. And you try to present a straw man.

If guns make us safer, how many guns does America need to be safe? 500 million? A billion?

Can't answer this question?