Oh goody, tens of thousands in Kentucky to lose their health care. Thanks GOP!

[dblack]

I think it will make an interesting social experiment to see what happens when Republicans repeal Obamacare and take away people insurance while offering nothing in return

It certainly would. But, sadly, it won't happen. PPACA is the law Republicans would have written if they'd had the chance.

The social experiment that will play out is the disillusionment of liberals when they appreciate the full extent of the 'big lie' of ACA - the claim that it will lead to single-payer.

Maybe not single payer like in Canada or England but single payer lite that will offer an option for a Government healthcare plan

Best of both worlds. You don't want government insurance......buy on the private market

Yeah, riiight. And invading Iraq will create a shining beacon of democracy that will transform the Middle East.

Would you perhaps be in the market for a bridge? I can cut you deal.

Are you and idiot?
Are aware that there was never a Peace in Iraq agreement,etc..... THE 1991 CEASE FIRE was just that?
I'm not going to waste time repeating the FACTS but you obviously were not around on 9/11/01!
When this event occurred the country was the United States!
But when you have Senators telling the people that didn't want peace in Iraq, i.e. TERRORISTs that:
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid(D) "War is lost", (Wouldn't the insurgent barbarians find this statement helpful in recruiting?"Hey we have USA on the Run"!!!)
U.S. Rep. John Murtha(D) "Our troops killed innocent civilians in cold blood,” (A barbarian says "SEE even their politicians admit USA are cold blooded killers"!
Senator Kerry (D) "American soldiers going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children." Kerry calling our troops TERRORISTS!!!
The above "Cheerleaders" speaking from the home team's field were CHEERING on the other team while claiming their team were the bad guys!

So the MSM gave these democrats a pass.
Not one MSM ever criticized Obama and the above people about their statements that as the Harvard study showed encouraged the enemy to prolong the Iraq conflict!

And so why else would the bad guys think the Liberation of Iraq was over! They won when the US Senators declare the war is lost!

Punch and Judy indeed.

 

[Flopper]

Your insurance costs should go up to provide coverage for people with preexisting conditions because the purpose of insurance is cover both those with little risk of illness as well as those with high risk of illness. Preexisting conditions was just a tactic of insurance companies to reduce claims and increase their profits.

That's really not the purpose of insurance. That's the key misconception (and I'd argue that it's a deliberate misconception) at the heart of PPACA. The purpose of insurance is to provide a hedge against risk. The idea that insurance should, or can, function as general purpose, pre-paid healthcare is irrational. Asking health insurance companies to "cover" people who are already sick is exactly as like asking automobile insurance companies to cover cars after they've been wrecked. This is a very basic concept of insurance and no amount of wishful delusion can change that.

There is an elegant and simple solution. Eliminate the insurance companies, Obamacare, Medicaid, Cobra, Employee sponsored insurance, 5 other federal healthcare programs, and over 75 state programs and replace them all with Medicare. You eliminate insurance company profits and processing cost which is higher than Medicare, replace a number of costly high overhead government programs, and eliminate employer healthcare cost which will reduce business overall expenses 6% to 15%. The public gets insurance that is better than the average health insurance plan being offered today. Doctors and hospitals can eliminate a large percent of their claims processing since they won't be dealing with a hundred difference insurance companies.

That's one solution. I happen to think a free market would provide and even more "elegant and simple solution". But both our 'druthers' are irrelevant when it comes to ACA. It's neither simple, nor elegant, and combines the worst aspects of government interference and corporate greed.

I find myself agreeing with most of your post. However, I think the true purpose of insurance is becoming irrelevant because we're moving away from a system in which your healthcare depends on your ability to pay. As life expectancy increases and we find cures and treatments for serious diseases, healthcare will become increasing important to everyone. In this century, I think healthcare will become a right, not a constitutional right but a human right. The idea of not having access to healthcare because of a lack of financial resources will seem as barbaric as allowing our children to starve because their parents can't provide for them.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Have you guys been living on Mars the last year or so while all the reports have come out about the disasters of Obamacare? Have you just missed all that information? The severe price hikes for the non-poor? The cost overruns? The insolvency of the some of the state health exchanges? The lie that you could keep your doctor? The hundreds of thousands of people who lost health plans that they liked because they didn't meet the ridiculous Obamacare standards? Etc., etc., etc.?

And does it occur to you that the reduction in the percentage of uninsured has come at an absurdly high price and that there's a better way to insure people?

 

[Londoner]

Lexington, KY local and state news by the Lexington Herald-Leader | Kentucky.com

The number of uninsured Kentuckians dropped from 14.3 percent in 2013 to 8.5 percent in 2014, according to census data released last month. That's the biggest drop in the rate of uninsured for any state. Meanwhile, Kentucky's health insurance market for individuals and small businesses is its most robust in years.

Election Day: Bevin wins in Kentucky, Ohio rejects pot - CNNPolitics.com

The wealthy businessman has pledged to shutdown the state's healthcare exchange and he's also expressed concerns about the expansion of Medicaid in Kentucky under the Affordable Care Act.

---------------------------------

That's what I like to see. The GOP leadership screwing over their base. And just in time for the presidential elections. Thanks GOP! See ya in 2016!

What is even more interesting is that we are moving to a place where hard working American families at the bottom - those most in need of health care, those whose factory jobs have been shipped to communist China so that our capitalists could profit from cheaper labor - are the ones who the GOP is trying to exclude from voting. Republicans win when turnout is low.

I have a feeling that one day we are going to live in a country where elections are meaningless, both because of voter exclusion and because big money owns the system. It took the Iraq War and the destruction of the housing and financial markets to get Obama and health care through the system - yet there exists no framework for protecting health care or defending any legislation that has been created for the middle class.

I don't see how any legislation that helps the non-wealthy will ever survive. I think the game might be over. I think they own the government (through Citizens United) and I think they own most of the media (which media is comprised of large over-consolidated mega-corporations that are hostile to liberal tax & regulatory reform). Translation: they have reached the goal they announced in the 70s, which was to create a think-tank & media revolution that allows them to control opinion. They now have the power to turn people against everything the government does for the non-wealthy, and they can do it while claiming that they are victims of the main stream media (which they have captured). It is beyond Orwellian. It's fucking scary.

 

[RWNJ]

I'm wondering what all the welfare queens will do when the government finally goes broke. I'm guessing they will probably riot. That will be the excuse for martial law, then a dictatorship. Hope you really like Obama. You may be stuck with him for a long time. Idiots.

 

[Flopper]

Providers have to bid??? Who are the providers? Providers of what?
In my business providers are the people that perform health services. Every day the providers we serve send over 10,000 inquiries to find out if their patients
are eligible for Medicare...i.e. providers.
So again... I'm asking you who do you consider providers?
Your answer will clearly show your level of ignorance.

You don't provide anything in your life. You have tried to discuss an issue the which you have shown you know nothing about. ACA is better than we had, we are never going back, and single payer will be what happens next.

The real issue is that you want to have only catastrophic insurance, the which allows you to privatize the profit and the public to socialize the risk. No.

Facts instead of supposition.
There were truly less then 4 million that wanted health insurance and needed it.
By stupidly trying to alter EVERYTHING i.e. the ACA people like you are destroying the system.
Why are you defending lawyers that cause over $850 billion a year to be spent by insurance companies paying claims that don't need to be done?
Here read this study:http://www.jacksonhealthcare.com/media/8968/defensivemedicine_ebook_final.pdf

Proof: 90% of physicians surveyed say they order $850 billion a year in wasted duplicate tests, referrals all out of FEAR of being SUED!
Proof: 52% of doctors under contract with Federal government don't practice defensive medicine because they CAN'T BE SUED!
Proof: ACA taxed tanning salons 10% because tanning causes cancer.
Proof: If ACA had taxed lawyers 10% of their $270 billion in revenue the $27 billion would have paid the premiums for the less then 4 million that want and needed insurance.

Lower the $850 billion in claims insurance companies pay and you will see states that will NOT let insurance companies RAISE rates because the costs the insurance
companies pay will be lowered, hence lower premiums.

It is that simple!

How can there be $850 billion a year wasted on duplicate tests when the total amount spent on the diagnostic tests is 750 billion a year currently? FYI, duplicate tests are not necessary a waste. A doctor uses additional tests to monitor the patient's progress during treatment, for example to see if the tumor is actually shrinking, to determine if the treatment is doing liver damage, and thousand of other possibilities things.

I am sure there are duplicate tests performed to protect the doctor from legal action but I think most duplicate tests are performed:

• Because the patient is concerned that their cancer is returning or they are afraid their serve headache is brain cancer, or any number fears patients have.
• As I mention above, it's just good medicine to run tests to make sure the treatments are effective.
• With the changes in insurance plans, patients move from doctor to doctor and often tests don't follow the patient. Rather than trying to locate the test which may be out of date or doesn't focus on the specific area in question, the doctor will just order a new test.

http://www.simulconsult.com/company/ManagingCostDiagnosis.pdf

 

[Flopper]

I have a feeling that one day we are going to live in a country where elections are meaningless, both because of voter exclusion and because big money owns the system.scary.

I think that day is here now. Look at what voters are doing in the Republican primaries. They are ready to elect a president with no real qualification as a protest. Voter turnout in 2014 is the lowest since WWII. Bad news for the right to vote which is the most important right granted to a U.S. citizen and good news for the big corporations.

 

[dblack]

Your insurance costs should go up to provide coverage for people with preexisting conditions because the purpose of insurance is cover both those with little risk of illness as well as those with high risk of illness. Preexisting conditions was just a tactic of insurance companies to reduce claims and increase their profits.

That's really not the purpose of insurance. That's the key misconception (and I'd argue that it's a deliberate misconception) at the heart of PPACA. The purpose of insurance is to provide a hedge against risk. The idea that insurance should, or can, function as general purpose, pre-paid healthcare is irrational. Asking health insurance companies to "cover" people who are already sick is exactly as like asking automobile insurance companies to cover cars after they've been wrecked. This is a very basic concept of insurance and no amount of wishful delusion can change that.

There is an elegant and simple solution. Eliminate the insurance companies, Obamacare, Medicaid, Cobra, Employee sponsored insurance, 5 other federal healthcare programs, and over 75 state programs and replace them all with Medicare. You eliminate insurance company profits and processing cost which is higher than Medicare, replace a number of costly high overhead government programs, and eliminate employer healthcare cost which will reduce business overall expenses 6% to 15%. The public gets insurance that is better than the average health insurance plan being offered today. Doctors and hospitals can eliminate a large percent of their claims processing since they won't be dealing with a hundred difference insurance companies.

That's one solution. I happen to think a free market would provide and even more "elegant and simple solution". But both our 'druthers' are irrelevant when it comes to ACA. It's neither simple, nor elegant, and combines the worst aspects of government interference and corporate greed.

I find myself agreeing with most of your post. However, I think the true purpose of insurance is becoming irrelevant because we're moving away from a system in which your healthcare depends on your ability to pay. As life expectancy increases and we find cures and treatments for serious diseases, healthcare will become increasing important to everyone. In this century, I think healthcare will become a right, not a constitutional right but a human right. The idea of not having access to healthcare because of a lack of financial resources will seem as barbaric as allowing our children to starve because their parents can't provide for them.

If that's what ACA implemented - or even if it paved that way for that outcome - I wouldn't be railing against it. I might not be cheering it on, because ultimately I think that kind of government is a mistake. But I wouldn't consider it a betrayal. ACA dismisses the best intentions of the left and the right and instead placates the ambitions of unscrupulous corporate interests. It deepens their control and establishes corporatism as our defacto system of governance.

 

[Flopper]

Your insurance costs should go up to provide coverage for people with preexisting conditions because the purpose of insurance is cover both those with little risk of illness as well as those with high risk of illness. Preexisting conditions was just a tactic of insurance companies to reduce claims and increase their profits.

That's really not the purpose of insurance. That's the key misconception (and I'd argue that it's a deliberate misconception) at the heart of PPACA. The purpose of insurance is to provide a hedge against risk. The idea that insurance should, or can, function as general purpose, pre-paid healthcare is irrational. Asking health insurance companies to "cover" people who are already sick is exactly as like asking automobile insurance companies to cover cars after they've been wrecked. This is a very basic concept of insurance and no amount of wishful delusion can change that.

There is an elegant and simple solution. Eliminate the insurance companies, Obamacare, Medicaid, Cobra, Employee sponsored insurance, 5 other federal healthcare programs, and over 75 state programs and replace them all with Medicare. You eliminate insurance company profits and processing cost which is higher than Medicare, replace a number of costly high overhead government programs, and eliminate employer healthcare cost which will reduce business overall expenses 6% to 15%. The public gets insurance that is better than the average health insurance plan being offered today. Doctors and hospitals can eliminate a large percent of their claims processing since they won't be dealing with a hundred difference insurance companies.

That's one solution. I happen to think a free market would provide and even more "elegant and simple solution". But both our 'druthers' are irrelevant when it comes to ACA. It's neither simple, nor elegant, and combines the worst aspects of government interference and corporate greed.

I find myself agreeing with most of your post. However, I think the true purpose of insurance is becoming irrelevant because we're moving away from a system in which your healthcare depends on your ability to pay. As life expectancy increases and we find cures and treatments for serious diseases, healthcare will become increasing important to everyone. In this century, I think healthcare will become a right, not a constitutional right but a human right. The idea of not having access to healthcare because of a lack of financial resources will seem as barbaric as allowing our children to starve because their parents can't provide for them.

If that's what ACA implemented - or even if it paved that way for that outcome - I wouldn't be railing against it. I might not be cheering it on, because ultimately I think that kind of government is a mistake. But I wouldn't consider it a betrayal. ACA dismisses the best intentions of the left and the right and instead placates the ambitions of unscrupulous corporate interests. It deepens their control and establishes corporatism as our defacto system of governance.

What large corporations are benefiting from the ACA? Not health insurance companies, profits have been mediocre for 6 years. This last year they averaged only 3%. A 2014 analysis of hospital revenues finds the average revenue is up 6.7% but operating cost is 6.3% which means that they're not doing as well as the health insurance companies. Even worst are the medical equipment manufactures. with almost flat earnings and revenues. The pharmaceuticals are the only healthcare sector that has really profited by the ACA.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

I have a feeling that one day we are going to live in a country where elections are meaningless, both because of voter exclusion and because big money owns the system.scary.

I think that day is here now. Look at what voters are doing in the Republican primaries. They are ready to elect a president with no real qualification as a protest. Voter turnout in 2014 is the lowest since WWII. Bad news for the right to vote which is the most important right granted to a U.S. citizen and good news for the big corporations.

Can the Democrats call the Kettle 1/2 Black?

I think that day is here now. Look at what voters are doing in the Republican primaries. They are ready to elect a president with no real qualification as a protest.

I mean as a protest of what our PROGRESSIVE Republican president George Bush 43 did, John(the Rino) McCain, lost because the liberals put up a White Guilt candidate, whose only qualifications was his "Present" voting records and the color of his skin(90% plus voted for this reason). So now you libtards are saying that the Republican candidates aren't qualified? I laugh at your lack of intelligence, as you are as stupid as what you voted for.
Obamacare: Voters, are you stupid? - CNN.com

Obamacare: LIBERAL Voters, are you stupid? YES YOU ARE.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Bush was qualified and awful and McCain not much more but both were far better candidates than any offered by the reactionary far right.

 

[Flopper]

Bush was qualified and awful and McCain not much more but both were far better candidates than any offered by the reactionary far right.

Having the education and experience to do a job doesn't guarantee success. It just gives the person the tools to be successful. It is completely illogical to assume that a person without the skills to do the job will be successfully simply because those with the skills failed.

 

[dblack]

Your insurance costs should go up to provide coverage for people with preexisting conditions because the purpose of insurance is cover both those with little risk of illness as well as those with high risk of illness. Preexisting conditions was just a tactic of insurance companies to reduce claims and increase their profits.

That's really not the purpose of insurance. That's the key misconception (and I'd argue that it's a deliberate misconception) at the heart of PPACA. The purpose of insurance is to provide a hedge against risk. The idea that insurance should, or can, function as general purpose, pre-paid healthcare is irrational. Asking health insurance companies to "cover" people who are already sick is exactly as like asking automobile insurance companies to cover cars after they've been wrecked. This is a very basic concept of insurance and no amount of wishful delusion can change that.

There is an elegant and simple solution. Eliminate the insurance companies, Obamacare, Medicaid, Cobra, Employee sponsored insurance, 5 other federal healthcare programs, and over 75 state programs and replace them all with Medicare. You eliminate insurance company profits and processing cost which is higher than Medicare, replace a number of costly high overhead government programs, and eliminate employer healthcare cost which will reduce business overall expenses 6% to 15%. The public gets insurance that is better than the average health insurance plan being offered today. Doctors and hospitals can eliminate a large percent of their claims processing since they won't be dealing with a hundred difference insurance companies.

That's one solution. I happen to think a free market would provide and even more "elegant and simple solution". But both our 'druthers' are irrelevant when it comes to ACA. It's neither simple, nor elegant, and combines the worst aspects of government interference and corporate greed.

I find myself agreeing with most of your post. However, I think the true purpose of insurance is becoming irrelevant because we're moving away from a system in which your healthcare depends on your ability to pay. As life expectancy increases and we find cures and treatments for serious diseases, healthcare will become increasing important to everyone. In this century, I think healthcare will become a right, not a constitutional right but a human right. The idea of not having access to healthcare because of a lack of financial resources will seem as barbaric as allowing our children to starve because their parents can't provide for them.

If that's what ACA implemented - or even if it paved that way for that outcome - I wouldn't be railing against it. I might not be cheering it on, because ultimately I think that kind of government is a mistake. But I wouldn't consider it a betrayal. ACA dismisses the best intentions of the left and the right and instead placates the ambitions of unscrupulous corporate interests. It deepens their control and establishes corporatism as our defacto system of governance.

What large corporations are benefiting from the ACA?

Compared to single-payer? You tell me.

The single undeniable fact about the situation with health care when ACA was passed is that things simply could not have continued as they were. The gig was up. Faced with the alternatives of single-payer, or real free market reforms, the insurance industry chose to cut a deal with government and did everything they could to preserve their power and profits. Every aspect of ACA is designed to prevent real change and keep the insurance industry afloat, up to and including forcing people to buy their useless product.

 

[rdean]

Lexington, KY local and state news by the Lexington Herald-Leader | Kentucky.com

The number of uninsured Kentuckians dropped from 14.3 percent in 2013 to 8.5 percent in 2014, according to census data released last month. That's the biggest drop in the rate of uninsured for any state. Meanwhile, Kentucky's health insurance market for individuals and small businesses is its most robust in years.

Election Day: Bevin wins in Kentucky, Ohio rejects pot - CNNPolitics.com

The wealthy businessman has pledged to shutdown the state's healthcare exchange and he's also expressed concerns about the expansion of Medicaid in Kentucky under the Affordable Care Act.

---------------------------------

That's what I like to see. The GOP leadership screwing over their base. And just in time for the presidential elections. Thanks GOP! See ya in 2016!

Stupid is as stupid votes, you pulled the lever for Hope and Change, the fundamental transformation of America, the lower'er of oceans and healer of the planet, and he and Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid , behind closed doors, have now taken away the RIGHT of people to choose whether to have healthcare or not. So with Obummer care collapsing all around(the plan of the liberals all along) dupshits like you just go and blame the GOP, who did nothing to stop the trainwreck, and did nothing to stop Obama from fulfilling his dream of control. Jonathan Gruber is correct for what he called you liberals. Obfuscatedcare

Obamacare architect Jonathan Gruber said Obamacare only passed due to the "stupidity" of the LIBERAL American voter and a lack of "transparency," and video footage of his remarks was deleted from the Internet in an attempt to hide it.

A box of rocks is smarter than a liberal.

View attachment 53877

Obamacare is not collapsing, it's working well in KY.

So what are you going to tell all these people when you pull their insurance?

obamacare IS collapsing leftard.

the fact that left-wing nutjobs are crying what people at the state level will do proves obamacare is a massive program foisted on the state and not fully funded, and can break state's budgets


too bad you didnt think you were admtting that

Lexington, KY local and state news by the Lexington Herald-Leader | Kentucky.com

The number of uninsured Kentuckians dropped from 14.3 percent in 2013 to 8.5 percent in 2014, according to census data released last month. That's the biggest drop in the rate of uninsured for any state. Meanwhile, Kentucky's health insurance market for individuals and small businesses is its most robust in years.

Election Day: Bevin wins in Kentucky, Ohio rejects pot - CNNPolitics.com

The wealthy businessman has pledged to shutdown the state's healthcare exchange and he's also expressed concerns about the expansion of Medicaid in Kentucky under the Affordable Care Act.

---------------------------------

That's what I like to see. The GOP leadership screwing over their base. And just in time for the presidential elections. Thanks GOP! See ya in 2016!

Stupid is as stupid votes, you pulled the lever for Hope and Change, the fundamental transformation of America, the lower'er of oceans and healer of the planet, and he and Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid , behind closed doors, have now taken away the RIGHT of people to choose whether to have healthcare or not. So with Obummer care collapsing all around(the plan of the liberals all along) dupshits like you just go and blame the GOP, who did nothing to stop the trainwreck, and did nothing to stop Obama from fulfilling his dream of control. Jonathan Gruber is correct for what he called you liberals. Obfuscatedcare

Obamacare architect Jonathan Gruber said Obamacare only passed due to the "stupidity" of the LIBERAL American voter and a lack of "transparency," and video footage of his remarks was deleted from the Internet in an attempt to hide it.

A box of rocks is smarter than a liberal.

View attachment 53877

Obamacare is not collapsing, it's working well in KY.

So what are you going to tell all these people when you pull their insurance?

obamacare IS collapsing leftard.

the fact that left-wing nutjobs are crying what people at the state level will do proves obamacare is a massive program foisted on the state and not fully funded, and can break state's budgets


too bad you didnt think you were admtting that

Obamacare works well in KY, retard.

Obamacare in Kentucky: The luxury of seeing a doctor - BBC News

Of course, with you guys only "special" people deserve healthcare.

No one has an right to health care, but they do have a right to earn health care.
We can't afford the giving out of handouts...

Like emergency room care at hundreds to thousands of times the cost?

 

[Flopper]

Your insurance costs should go up to provide coverage for people with preexisting conditions because the purpose of insurance is cover both those with little risk of illness as well as those with high risk of illness. Preexisting conditions was just a tactic of insurance companies to reduce claims and increase their profits.

That's really not the purpose of insurance. That's the key misconception (and I'd argue that it's a deliberate misconception) at the heart of PPACA. The purpose of insurance is to provide a hedge against risk. The idea that insurance should, or can, function as general purpose, pre-paid healthcare is irrational. Asking health insurance companies to "cover" people who are already sick is exactly as like asking automobile insurance companies to cover cars after they've been wrecked. This is a very basic concept of insurance and no amount of wishful delusion can change that.

There is an elegant and simple solution. Eliminate the insurance companies, Obamacare, Medicaid, Cobra, Employee sponsored insurance, 5 other federal healthcare programs, and over 75 state programs and replace them all with Medicare. You eliminate insurance company profits and processing cost which is higher than Medicare, replace a number of costly high overhead government programs, and eliminate employer healthcare cost which will reduce business overall expenses 6% to 15%. The public gets insurance that is better than the average health insurance plan being offered today. Doctors and hospitals can eliminate a large percent of their claims processing since they won't be dealing with a hundred difference insurance companies.

That's one solution. I happen to think a free market would provide and even more "elegant and simple solution". But both our 'druthers' are irrelevant when it comes to ACA. It's neither simple, nor elegant, and combines the worst aspects of government interference and corporate greed.

I find myself agreeing with most of your post. However, I think the true purpose of insurance is becoming irrelevant because we're moving away from a system in which your healthcare depends on your ability to pay. As life expectancy increases and we find cures and treatments for serious diseases, healthcare will become increasing important to everyone. In this century, I think healthcare will become a right, not a constitutional right but a human right. The idea of not having access to healthcare because of a lack of financial resources will seem as barbaric as allowing our children to starve because their parents can't provide for them.

If that's what ACA implemented - or even if it paved that way for that outcome - I wouldn't be railing against it. I might not be cheering it on, because ultimately I think that kind of government is a mistake. But I wouldn't consider it a betrayal. ACA dismisses the best intentions of the left and the right and instead placates the ambitions of unscrupulous corporate interests. It deepens their control and establishes corporatism as our defacto system of governance.

What large corporations are benefiting from the ACA?

Compared to single-payer? You tell me.

The single undeniable fact about the situation with health care when ACA was passed is that things simply could not have continued as they were. The gig was up. Faced with the alternatives of single-payer, or real free market reforms, the insurance industry chose to cut a deal with government and did everything they could to preserve their power and profits. Every aspect of ACA is designed to prevent real change and keep the insurance industry afloat, up to and including forcing people to buy their useless product.

Obama certainly entertained the idea of single payer in his 2008 campaign. However, advisers convinced him that neither Republicans nor any of the major corporations in healthcare would support a Single Payer system and he would need that support. So that was end of single payer.

I believe that eventually we will adopt single payer. It may take decades but it will happen because health insurance companies are becoming middlemen between government (and the customer) and healthcare providers. Insurance companies are adding very little value to healthcare while sucking off billions in overhead and profits. The major difference in the plans are premium, deductible, yearly out of pocket maximums, and co-pays or coinsurance. Coverage varies very little from plan to plan. Insurance companies do have networks of contracted health insurance providers and it's true that contract rates are much lower than the individual prices. However, those contract rates are usually very close to Medicare rates.

 

[Flopper]

I have a feeling that one day we are going to live in a country where elections are meaningless, both because of voter exclusion and because big money owns the system.scary.

I think that day is here now. Look at what voters are doing in the Republican primaries. They are ready to elect a president with no real qualification as a protest. Voter turnout in 2014 is the lowest since WWII. Bad news for the right to vote which is the most important right granted to a U.S. citizen and good news for the big corporations.

Can the Democrats call the Kettle 1/2 Black?

I think that day is here now. Look at what voters are doing in the Republican primaries. They are ready to elect a president with no real qualification as a protest.

I mean as a protest of what our PROGRESSIVE Republican president George Bush 43 did, John(the Rino) McCain, lost because the liberals put up a White Guilt candidate, whose only qualifications was his "Present" voting records and the color of his skin(90% plus voted for this reason). So now you libtards are saying that the Republican candidates aren't qualified? I laugh at your lack of intelligence, as you are as stupid as what you voted for.
Obamacare: Voters, are you stupid? - CNN.com

Obamacare: LIBERAL Voters, are you stupid? YES YOU ARE.

Yes, you're protesting against professional politicians with years of experience in government and politics because in your view they're unsuccessful. So now you want to put people in office with no government nor political experience. I suppose when you hire a plumber to fix a leak and he's unsuccessful, then you hire an electrician because you believe he is honest and good at his job.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

 

[dblack]

Yep. And some people are able to fit this in their heads.

 

[dblack]

I believe that eventually we will adopt single payer. It may take decades but it will happen because health insurance companies are becoming middlemen between government (and the customer) and healthcare providers. Insurance companies are adding very little value to healthcare while sucking off billions in overhead and profits. The major difference in the plans are premium, deductible, yearly out of pocket maximums, and co-pays or coinsurance. Coverage varies very little from plan to plan. Insurance companies do have networks of contracted health insurance providers and it's true that contract rates are much lower than the individual prices. However, those contract rates are usually very close to Medicare rates.

Then why in the world do you support ACA?

 

[Flopper]

I believe that eventually we will adopt single payer. It may take decades but it will happen because health insurance companies are becoming middlemen between government (and the customer) and healthcare providers. Insurance companies are adding very little value to healthcare while sucking off billions in overhead and profits. The major difference in the plans are premium, deductible, yearly out of pocket maximums, and co-pays or coinsurance. Coverage varies very little from plan to plan. Insurance companies do have networks of contracted health insurance providers and it's true that contract rates are much lower than the individual prices. However, those contract rates are usually very close to Medicare rates.

Then why in the world do you support ACA?

For two reasons:
First it has increased the number of people covered by insurance by removing the price barrier for the poor and it has removed the pre-existing condition barrier for everyone.
Secondly, it has reduced the insurance companies to nothing more than middlemen collecting money from the government and customers to pay claims dictated by federal requirements. Eventually congress and the public will see that these middlemen who are sucking billions from the healthcare system are unnecessary.