On Israel and Gaza.... What the hell do you expect the guy to do?

[justoffal]

I am not monolithically dedicated to anyone set of political principles. That is why I have no problem defending Joe Biden at this point in the paradoxical situation he is facing right now with the Israel<>Gaza war.

Regardless of what I like I dislike about him so far I think he has done very well managing this really terrible situation. As far as the US Navy response to the piracy taking place off of the coast of Yemen It looks like we have shown a remarkable amount of restraint and given many, many warnings prior to finally rolling into action to protect international shipping. The response has been measured and precise just the way it should be.

The pirates or whoever they are/are lucky that the president doesn't just unleash the US Navy totally because there is no force on Earth that can match the United States Navy. The amount of destruction that it could cause an a short period of time is completely mind-boggling by anyone's estimate. Let's hope it doesn't get there.

In the meantime an 81-year-old man who is visibly losing his abilities Is tasked with the impossible chore of trying to find some humanitarian reason in the midst of all of this religiously fueled vitriol. His probable decision that Hamas needs to go even if Gaza needs to stay is most likely the only solution going forward that has any real merit. This decision could not have been easy because it is costing him personally and politically in his own familiar circles. For those that are criticizing the way he's handling things I offer a challenge.... Got any better ideas? I Seriously doubt it.

As the post title asks..." What the hell do you expect the guy to do?"

Jo

 

[MinTrut]

I am not monolithically dedicated to anyone set of political principles. That is why I have no problem defending Joe Biden at this point in the paradoxical situation he is facing right now with the Israel<>Gaza war.

Regardless of what I like I dislike about him so far I think he has done very well managing this really terrible situation. As far as the US Navy response to the piracy taking place off of the coast of Yemen It looks like we have shown a remarkable amount of restraint and given many, many warnings prior to finally rolling into action to protect international shipping. The response has been measured and precise just the way it should be.

The pirates or whoever they are/are lucky that the president doesn't just unleash the US Navy totally because there is no force on Earth that can match the United States Navy. The amount of destruction that it could cause an a short period of time is completely mind-boggling by anyone's estimate. Let's hope it doesn't get there.

In the meantime an 81-year-old man who is visibly losing his abilities Is tasked with the impossible chore of trying to find some humanitarian reason in the midst of all of this religiously fueled vitriol. His probable decision that Hamas needs to go even if Gaza needs to stay is most likely the only solution going forward that has any real merit. This decision could not have been easy because it is costing him personally and politically in his own familiar circles. For those that are criticizing the way he's handling things I offer a challenge.... Got any better ideas? I Seriously doubt it.

As the post title asks..." What the hell do you expect the guy to do?"

Jo

Instruct Israel to stop committing genocide.

So easy.

 

[justoffal]

Instruct Israel to stop committing genocide.

So easy.

It only sounds easy.

 

[Silent Warrior]

Instruct Israel to stop committing genocide.

So easy.

That would be easy were they doing so. So far it seems to be the other side that goes out of it's way to kill innocents and children.

 

[justoffal]

That would be easy were they doing so. So far it seems to be the other side that goes out of it's way to kill innocents and children.

Routing Hamas out of Palestine is going to come with a tremendous amount of collateral damage. Leaving Hamas in charge of Palestine is condemning the Palestinians to no future whatsoever.

 

[jwoodie]

Regardless of what I like I dislike about him so far I think he has done very well managing this really terrible situation. As far as the US Navy response to the piracy taking place off of the coast of Yemen It looks like we have shown a remarkable amount of restraint and given many, many warnings prior to finally rolling into action to protect international shipping. The response has been measured and precise just the way it should be.

The pirates or whoever they are/are lucky that the president doesn't just unleash the US Navy totally because there is no force on Earth that can match the United States Navy. The amount of destruction that it could cause an a short period of time is completely mind-boggling by anyone's estimate. Let's hope it doesn't get there.

Damning with faint praise? Biden is the architect of a failed foreign policy who doesn't know how to deal with its results. Showing "remarkable restraint" and "measured and precise" responses are exactly what the US should NOT be doing. Why else do you consider the pirates to be "lucky?"

If Biden and his handlers were not so invested in propping up Iran, they could blockade its shipping and prevent it from funding outside terrorist activities. But in answer to your specific question, Biden should resign NOW.

 

[justoffal]

Damning with faint praise? Biden is the architect of a failed foreign policy who doesn't know how to deal with its results. Showing "remarkable restraint" and "measured and precise" responses are exactly what the US should NOT be doing. Why else do you consider the pirates to be "lucky?"

If Biden and his handlers were not so invested in propping up Iran, they could blockade its shipping and prevent it from funding outside terrorist activities. But in answer to your specific question, Biden should resign NOW.

No feint praise....I'm serious.

Your suggestion about Iran seems relevant and well informed however there are much bigger fish here. Regardless of what the reasons are the US cannot allow a small group of dissidents off the coast of Yemen to disrupt global trade by destroying the trade routes. This is not hard to understand and is quite free from politics and special interests. Your goddamn right they're lucky...

The very measured and tiny response to the attacks are absolutely nothing compared to the unimaginable hell that the United States Navy could unleash upon them.

I'm willing to say that you have a point about his foreign policy being failed in that area. However that can't be fixed in 24 hours. The ongoing crisis requires day-to-day attention and the decision to root Hamas out of Palestine is the proper decision in my opinion. But then again it's only my opinion.

Jo

 

[White 6]

I am not monolithically dedicated to anyone set of political principles. That is why I have no problem defending Joe Biden at this point in the paradoxical situation he is facing right now with the Israel<>Gaza war.

Regardless of what I like I dislike about him so far I think he has done very well managing this really terrible situation. As far as the US Navy response to the piracy taking place off of the coast of Yemen It looks like we have shown a remarkable amount of restraint and given many, many warnings prior to finally rolling into action to protect international shipping. The response has been measured and precise just the way it should be.

The pirates or whoever they are/are lucky that the president doesn't just unleash the US Navy totally because there is no force on Earth that can match the United States Navy. The amount of destruction that it could cause an a short period of time is completely mind-boggling by anyone's estimate. Let's hope it doesn't get there.

In the meantime an 81-year-old man who is visibly losing his abilities Is tasked with the impossible chore of trying to find some humanitarian reason in the midst of all of this religiously fueled vitriol. His probable decision that Hamas needs to go even if Gaza needs to stay is most likely the only solution going forward that has any real merit. This decision could not have been easy because it is costing him personally and politically in his own familiar circles. For those that are criticizing the way he's handling things I offer a challenge.... Got any better ideas? I Seriously doubt it.

As the post title asks..." What the hell do you expect the guy to do?"

Jo

Continue to walk that tightrope, balancing unfailing support for the existence of Israel and it's security, while attempting to influence Netanyahu, against his baser instincts of retribution, striking blindly at all Palestinians in Gaza.

As for the Hoothis, I am surprised we and the rest of the world have been this self controlled, in reaction to their attacks in international waters, at basically anybody in the international waters.

 

[justoffal]

Continue to walk that tightrope, balancing unfailing support for the existence of Israel and it's security, while attempting to influence Netanyahu, against his baser instincts of retribution, striking blindly at all Palestinians in Gaza.

As for the Hoothis, I am surprised we and the rest of the world have been this self controlled, in reaction to their attacks in international waters, at basically anybody in the international waters.

Trophy post!

 

[wamose]

When one side cuts babies heads off, rapes and tortures teen aged girls and takes old women hostage, you NEVER side with them. Bide is conflicted because his party is loaded with radical Muslim apologists who insist that he should see it their way and I don't think he does. If he was a Republican, they would be trying to cancel him. Viva Trumpie

 

[rampart]

No feint praise....I'm serious.

Your suggestion about Iran seems relevant and well informed however there are much bigger fish here. Regardless of what the reasons are the US cannot allow a small group of dissidents off the coast of Yemen to disrupt global trade by destroying the trade routes. This is not hard to understand and is quite free from politics and special interests. Your goddamn right they're lucky...

The very measured and tiny response to the attacks are absolutely nothing compared to the unimaginable hell that the United States Navy could unleash upon them.

I'm willing to say that you have a point about his foreign policy being failed in that area. However that can't be fixed in 24 hours. The ongoing crisis requires day-to-day attention and the decision to root Hamas out of Palestine is the proper decision in my opinion. But then again it's only my opinion.

Jo

got to agree with you on this one jo. the foreign policy failures in this region stretch back to ptolemy or augustus caesar. hard to step in and fix it in a mere century.

part of the "failure" is the entanglement of israel with the end times fixations of the evangelicals. sorry to disappoint them, but there will be no "second coming" and no temple will be built on a radioactive temple mount.

 

[justoffal]

When one side cuts babies heads off, rapes and tortures teen aged girls and takes old women hostage, you NEVER side with them. Bide is conflicted because his party is loaded with radical Muslim apologists who insist that he should see it their way and I don't think he does. If he was a Republican, they would be trying to cancel him. Viva Trumpie

Look as much as I may dislike the guy He's showing some real intestinal fortitude here and standing up to the crazies in his party and in his own backyard.

This is what a President does.
I think he's scoring some serious points on this one.

 

[jwoodie]

Continue to walk that tightrope, balancing unfailing support for the existence of Israel and it's security, while attempting to influence Netanyahu, against his baser instincts of retribution, striking blindly at all Palestinians in Gaza.

As for the Hoothis, I am surprised we and the rest of the world have been this self controlled, in reaction to their attacks in international waters, at basically anybody in the international waters.

So you are in favor of destroying the Houthis but not Hamas? You can't have it both ways.

I am beginning to think that Gaza should be split in half, with the northern portion under UN supervision. If it couldn't prevent further attacks on Israel, the UN would lose all of its antisemitic credibility and Israel would be justified in taking over that area.

The southern portion of Gaza should remain under Israeli military control until it is either pacified and wants to rejoin with the northern portion, or is turned over to Egyptian or other moderate Muslim authority. If this fails, Israel would be justified in turning into a permanent occupation zone. Gaza should not just be Israel's problem.

 

[White 6]

So you are in favor of destroying the Houthis but not Hamas? You can't have it both ways.

I am beginning to think that Gaza should be split in half, with the northern portion under UN supervision. If it couldn't prevent further attacks on Israel, the UN would lose all of its antisemitic credibility and Israel would be justified in taking over that area.

The southern portion of Gaza should remain under Israeli military control until it is either pacified and wants to rejoin with the northern portion, or is turned over to Egyptian or other moderate Muslim authority. If this fails, Israel would be justified in turning into a permanent occupation zone. Gaza should not just be Israel's problem.

Hamas, should definetly be destroyed. That does not mean maximum destruction against all people living in Gaza. Quicker and easier, to be sure, but not right. If I (me, myself) was forced to a binary decision of (A) Allowing Hamas to exist in Gaza, or (B) killing every living thing in Gaza, I would indeed favor option "B". Problem is, it is not a binary choice, just quickest means to effect an end. The end does not justify the means.

So, instead of a two state solution, you want a three state solution. Are you on crack?

 

[jwoodie]

it is not a binary choice,

That statement is intellectual fraud. ALL choices are "binary" in that you either choose them or you don't. If there are other alternatives you may add them as choices, but you still have to decide which ones to pick. Unless you are Joe Biden.

 

[jwoodie]

So, instead of a two state solution, you want a three state solution. Are you on crack?

Unlike you, I consider ideas (rather than labels). Do you have any?

 

[rampart]

That statement is intellectual fraud. ALL choices are "binary" in that you either choose them or you don't. If there are other alternatives you may add them as choices, but you still have to decide which ones to pick. Unless you are Joe Biden.

biden has looked at more than 2 answers to this problem., most are bad and many impossible due as much to american politics. as anything.

note that he has not actually stopped the israeli army from doing anything, and has no control over the other side if not through their iranian (?) sponsors.

 

[White 6]

Unlike you, I consider ideas (rather than labels). Do you have any?

Keep moving toward elimination of Hamas anywhere in Gaza, while trying to avoid civilian casualties when they can be avoided. In the long term, if the remaining Palestinians still cannot tolerate the existence of Israel and Israel controlling the territory to ensure their peace, the Palistinians will have to be driven from that land, by destroying every single building, structure, water and power system, along with blockading routes in and out after driving them the rest of the way out. I support Israel's right to exist. Palestinians will just have to be willing to accept it's existence or they are in for a well deserved, horrible life, possibly a short one.

 

[sparky]

Got any better ideas?

Open the pipeline

Vote with the majority of the UN, not against it

Dissolve homeland security & TSA, revoke the PA

Constraint the pentagon to a sane annual budget

Revoke the national security act

Conscript every man/woman @ 18 to local militia duty

Revoke nafta, consider VAT

Balance the budget

Dissolve the Fed

Reboot the CDC, and FDA

and that's just for starters.....

~S~

 

[justoffal]

Open the pipeline

Vote with the majority of the UN, not against it

Dissolve homeland security & TSA, revoke the PA

Constraint the pentagon to a sane annual budget

Revoke the national security act

Conscript every man/woman @ 18 to local militia duty

Revoke nafta, consider VAT

Balance the budget

Dissolve the Fed

Reboot the CDC, and FDA

and that's just for starters.....

~S~

I'm certainly not going to argue with any of those....

However the problem at hand right now being Israel<>Gaza.... Requiring immediate decisions and positions. It's a very difficult position for anyone to be in and so far he seems to be handling it quite well. This isn't the first time I've had a compliment for Mr. Biden.... And I'm sure I'll have plenty of complaints in the future.