Zone1 On the fall of Lucifer

onefour1

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In the Bible according to the book of Revelation, before we came to this earth, there was a war in heaven between Lucifer and his followers and God, Jesus, and Michael and those who followed after them.

Revelation 12:7-11
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Here we learn that Michael and his angels prevailed in the war in heaven and Lucifer and his angels were cast out of heaven into this earth. We then learn that eventually Michael and his angels overcame Lucifer by the blood of the Lamb and by their testimonies, and they loved not their lives unto the death. In other words, those who fought in the war in heaven also came down to this earth and needed the blood of the Lamb and a testimony to overcome Lucifer. We also learn that they were subject to death. Lucifer and his followers were denied the right to ever receive a body of flesh and bones. For this reason they often try to possess the bodies of those who do have bodies. Those who sided with God the Father, Jesus the Christ, and Michael the archangel were allowed to come to this earth and receive bodies of flesh and bones. So what caused this war that occurred in heaven? God has revealed in latter-day revelation the cause of the war in heaven and how the fall of Lucifer and his minions occurred. Lucifer was son of God who held high station among the children of God before this earth was created. He was a son of the morning.

Isaiah 14:12-17
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

In latter-day revelation through the prophet Joseph Smith we learn what the conflict was all about:

Moses 4:1-4
1 And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.
2 But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me—Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.
3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;
4 And he became Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies, to deceive and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice.

In these verses we learn that Lucifer, whose name was changed to Satan, sought to be the Savior of the world and had his own ideas on how mankind should be saved. He claimed that he could save all mankind that not one soul would be lost. We also learn that part of Lucifer's plan was to destroy the agency of mankind. Apparently, Lucifer would force everyone to obey him and in this way he would save all mankind. Lucifer presented his plan to the Father but the Father rejected Lucifer's plan. Lucifer was angry and then went among the children of God to have them agree with his plan and to reject the plan of the Father. He was actually very successful and got 1/3 of the host of heaven to take his side. This what the whole war in heaven was all about. Lucifer was turning the children of God against him and coming out in open rebellion against God our Father in Heaven. For this reason Lucifer and his followers were cast out of heaven into the earth and were denied the opportunity ever receive bodies of flesh and bones. So, how attractive do you find Lucifer's offer to save every soul? Why do you suppose that God the Father rejected Lucifer's plan? What was the problem with Lucifer's plan?
 
I've read revelations a few times and it's like some crazy comic book story
it's so hard to follow what is going on, I was wrote over 2000 years ago
what was the mindset then as it's nothing we know of now
it reads likes like a crazy fantasy tale of good and evil
 
In the Bible according to the book of Revelation, before we came to this earth, there was a war in heaven between Lucifer and his followers and God, Jesus, and Michael and those who followed after them.
Could you explain the reasoning that you used to come to that conclusion?
 
Lucifer and his followers were denied the right to ever receive a body of flesh and bones. For this reason they often try to possess the bodies of those who do have bodies.

What about in Genesis when the "fallen" angels have sex with human women who them bore the giants known as the Nephilim? I believe the scripture says that the angels took human form.

As for demons, they are purportedly the souls of the Nephilim that died, although scripture doesn't speak to this. In any event, demons seek to possess bodies, not angels, or so I understand.
 
Could you explain the reasoning that you used to come to that conclusion?

For goodness sake .
It was reported clearly enough in WaPo and NYT for you to know it must be true .

Although it sounds much more like the Jupiter- Mars problems which resulted in our forebears escaping from Mars to here on Earth .

But who are we to ruin a Cult Narrative ? It's nice to see our Cult Religious friends nursing their own little Conspiracy theories . Keeps them comfortable .
 
We then learn that eventually Michael and his angels overcame Lucifer by the blood of the Lamb and by their testimonies, and they loved not their lives unto the death.
It was the "brethren" who were "accused by" and "overcame" Satan, not the angels.

It is also likely that all the angels once enjoyed the original Eden in some form of physical bodies. After the fall of Lucifer, the sinning angels were given the monstrous bodies we find in the fossil record.
 
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It was the "brethren" who were "accused by" and "overcame" Satan, not the angels.

It is also likely that all the angels once enjoyed the original Eden in some form of physical bodies. After the fall of Lucifer, the sinning angels were given the monstrous bodies we find in the fossil record.

Very satirical .

So , this secretive band of Bruvvers ---whom nobody has ever heard of ----overturned an imaginary figure that Cultists had dreamt up, to try and explain a world which is part good , but mostly the opposite .

Where on earth do you get this tripe and onions from ?
Is it found in special on -line shops for imaginary money ?
 
Very satirical .

So , this secretive band of Bruvvers ---whom nobody has ever heard of ----overturned an imaginary figure that Cultists had dreamt up, to try and explain a world which is part good , but mostly the opposite .

Where on earth do you get this tripe and onions from ?
Is it found in special on -line shops for imaginary money ?
Why do you care?
 
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I've read revelations a few times and it's like some crazy comic book story
it's so hard to follow what is going on, I was wrote over 2000 years ago
what was the mindset then as it's nothing we know of now
it reads likes like a crazy fantasy tale of good and evil
I would suggest that you try reading these books, "Making Sense of the Book of Revelation" by Robert L. Millet and "Your Study of the Book of Revelation Made Easier" by David J. Ridges.
 
Could you explain the reasoning that you used to come to that conclusion?
Which conclusion are you referring to? If you are referring to the war in heaven, I posted the verse that talks about this:

Revelation 12:7-11
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Here we learn that there was a war in heaven between Michael and his angels and the dragon (Devil, Satan) and his angels. The Devil and his angels were cast out of heaven into the earth. Michael and his angels were fighting on the side of God and his Christ. Those who fought on the side of God eventually gained mortal bodies of flesh and bones and overcame Satan by the blood of the Lamb and their testimonies and loved not their lives unto the death. In other words they became mortal man.
 
What about in Genesis when the "fallen" angels have sex with human women who them bore the giants known as the Nephilim? I believe the scripture says that the angels took human form.

As for demons, they are purportedly the souls of the Nephilim that died, although scripture doesn't speak to this. In any event, demons seek to possess bodies, not angels, or so I understand.
Satan and his minions were never allowed to obtain a body of flesh and bones. This is why they try to possess the bodies of mankind who do have bodies. I don't believe that the term, "Sons of God" refers to angels taking on bodies. I believe that it refers to the faithful on this earth who believed in God or were born under the covenant and the people of God. However, for them to remain faithful they were required to marry among those who were among the children of God in the faith. But they began to sin and began to marry the daughters of men who were not found among the believers of God and thus started down the road to apostasy. It has nothing to do with Angels in heaven taking on bodies and having sex with women on the earth. The whole story is a false interpretation of scripture.

First off, God does not allow any being in heaven to have contact with or minister to those on this earth unless they too belong to this earth. The only way for an angel (which are mankind) of the old testament to obtain a body would be to be born into this world. Since Christ was the first rise into an immortal resurrected body, the only way for an angel to have sex would be to be born into this world as a mortal. Angels having bodies before being born into this world is just a fable. It never happened.
 
It was the "brethren" who were "accused by" and "overcame" Satan, not the angels.

It is also likely that all the angels once enjoyed the original Eden in some form of physical bodies. After the fall of Lucifer, the sinning angels were given the monstrous bodies we find in the fossil record.
Angels are either unembodied spirits of mankind, mortal men who are currently on the earth, spirits who have lived in a mortal body on this earth but have died and are awaiting their resurrection, or resurrected beings who resurrected after our Lord Jesus Christ was resurrected. They are our brethren and sisters in the gospel and the spirit offspring of our Father in heaven. An angel is nothing more than a messenger of God sent to deliver a message from God. The angels are messengers from among the children of God. The forces of Satan were accusing them, the angels on the side of Michael, for siding with God and what Satan thought was not so good of a plan by God the Father. Those angels are our spirit brothers and sisters. They are the children of God. I do not believe that an angel is a separate species from mankind. Some of the archangels we know of in the Bible have been revealed to some of the great patriarchs that have come to this earth and have taken on bodies of flesh and bones. For example, it has been revealed that Adam is Michael and Noah is Gabriel.
 
I would suggest that you try reading these books, "Making Sense of the Book of Revelation" by Robert L. Millet and "Your Study of the Book of Revelation Made Easier" by David J. Ridges.
could try but it's still a crazy story, I don't really get around to reading that much today, not really even magazines
 
I would suggest that you try reading these books, "Making Sense of the Book of Revelation" by Robert L. Millet and "Your Study of the Book of Revelation Made Easier" by David J. Ridges.
But, these authors are Mormons.
 
could try but it's still a crazy story, I don't really get around to reading that much today, not really even magazines
I would say that it would be well worth it if you really want to understand the Book of Revelation.
 
But, these authors are Mormons.
I know that when growing up as a Protestant or Catholic that your preachers white wash your brain into thinking that Mormons are not even Christian and that they are a complete fraud. That is where your real problem lies. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the true church of Jesus Christ and was established again on this earth by Jesus Christ himself. Don't let the prejudice of men turn you away from God.
 
I know that when growing up as a Protestant or Catholic that your preachers white wash your brain into thinking that Mormons are not even Christian and that they are a complete fraud. That is where your real problem lies. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the true church of Jesus Christ and was established again on this earth by Jesus Christ himself. Don't let the prejudice of men turn you away from God.
I believe the true church cannot be identified by any particular denomination. The church is a spiritual organism led by the Holy Spirit.

Recall that the church went into hiding for 1260 years. It is unlikely that there was a unified church during that period.
 
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